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jodeke
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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | When he says that Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, he's lying. It took many months, countless committee hearings, testimonies by experts, countless amendments (many by Republicans) before Obamacare became law.
And when he says that Graham-Cassidy are acting on what's in the best interest of the country, he's lying there too. This is not about the country, it's about a stupid promise they made and to pave the way for a huge tax cut.
But as I said, if he votes NO, that's good enough for me. |
I agree with lying about the Dems. On Graham-Cassidy he said they're acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what's best for the country, that's party politics.
I hope McCain stands firm on not voting for a bill that's not good for the country. I know many don't believe him. I think maybe he's reverting to the old John McCain maverick.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Rand is voting no because he thinks it doesn't go far enough. However he's been slammed by conservative outlets like NRO because they think his "no" votes are two-faced: Kentucky relies heavily on Obamacare Medicaid subsidies, so he can pretend he's against these bills because they "don't go far enough", but in reality he's against them because he knows they'll screw his state. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | You see healthcare as a fundamental issue that needs to be addressed. They see a giant bank they can loot. |
That is the way they view everything including healthcare.
Our entire political system is based on bribery in which people of means exert their influence over elected officials with political contributions. Follow the money, and you will see examples of quid pro quo in votes by every politician in every form of government.
Healthcare reform can never be achieved until our bribery based system is dismantled and rebuilt with the transparency needed to ensure votes are cast for the common good instead of sold to the highest bidder. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | When he says that Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, he's lying. It took many months, countless committee hearings, testimonies by experts, countless amendments (many by Republicans) before Obamacare became law.
And when he says that Graham-Cassidy are acting on what's in the best interest of the country, he's lying there too. This is not about the country, it's about a stupid promise they made and to pave the way for a huge tax cut.
But as I said, if he votes NO, that's good enough for me. |
I agree with lying about the Dems. On Graham-Cassidy he said they're acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what's best for the country, that's party politics.
I hope McCain stands firm in not voting for a bill that's not good for the country. I know many don't believe him. I think maybe he's reverting to the old John McCain maverick. |
They are consistent in their beliefs -- that tax cuts for the rich are more important than people having healthcare. Yes, they are sincere about that, but they are lying by pretending it's about healthcare. The Koch Brothers have told the GOP to repeal healthcare, end Medicaid and give them their tax cuts or else they will stop donating to the GOP. They are not doing what they think is best for the American people, they are doing what they think is best for themselves, their rich donors and other wealthy people. They don't give a (bleep) about the rest of America except to manipulate enough of their clan to vote for them through the use of propaganda, lies, racism and sexism. The Graham-Cassidy bill was disingenuous Kabuki-theater. Jimmy Kimmel saw through it, called them out and probably did as much as anyone to pull back the curtain and hopefully doom this terrible bill.
/rant |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67708
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You see healthcare as a fundamental issue that needs to be addressed. They see a giant bank they can loot. |
That is the way they view everything including healthcare.
Our entire political system is based on bribery in which people of means exert their influence over elected officials with political contributions. Follow the money, and you will see examples of quid pro quo in votes by every politician in every form of government.
Healthcare reform can never be achieved until our bribery based system is dismantled and rebuilt with the transparency needed to ensure votes are cast for the common good instead of sold to the highest bidder. |
PLUTOCRACY!!!
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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SweetP
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | When he says that Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, he's lying. It took many months, countless committee hearings, testimonies by experts, countless amendments (many by Republicans) before Obamacare became law.
And when he says that Graham-Cassidy are acting on what's in the best interest of the country, he's lying there too. This is not about the country, it's about a stupid promise they made and to pave the way for a huge tax cut.
But as I said, if he votes NO, that's good enough for me. |
I agree with lying about the Dems. On Graham-Cassidy he said they're acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what's best for the country, that's party politics.
I hope McCain stands firm in not voting for a bill that's not good for the country. I know many don't believe him. I think maybe he's reverting to the old John McCain maverick. |
Actually, I think he is just being a stubborn old man. He's not against the ideas in the current proposal, nor was he against the previous ones. He has just said all along that he wants the normal processes of the Senate to be used.
Collins and Murkowski (thanks CL for the correct spelling) were the two that were strong enough to vote no on the actual goals of the proposals. Paul Rand is all about making a point of the policies not going far enough, exact opposite of the two women senators but again, a no is a no.
They need to work together and start fixing the issues in ACA. The people have said they want it, so work on it.
And by the way, I don't disagree with McCain, I think the Senate and the House both need to start legislating properly and stop all the obstructing and partisan games but I think his vote on this is more about his belief in the Senate procedures than his desire to help people keep and get healthcare. Perhaps the prognosis he is now facing enters into his decision a bit, knowing many, many people would not be able to access the care he can get to give him as much time with his family as possible. And maybe sticking it to Trump enters into it some but I think his main issue is the procedural one, it is what he has stressed publically over and over.
But as others have noted, I don't care why he is a no as long as he is one.
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Last edited by SweetP on Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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32
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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John McCain does it again. 
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | When he says that Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, he's lying. It took many months, countless committee hearings, testimonies by experts, countless amendments (many by Republicans) before Obamacare became law.
And when he says that Graham-Cassidy are acting on what's in the best interest of the country, he's lying there too. This is not about the country, it's about a stupid promise they made and to pave the way for a huge tax cut.
But as I said, if he votes NO, that's good enough for me. |
I agree with lying about the Dems. On Graham-Cassidy he said they're acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what's best for the country, that's party politics.
I hope McCain stands firm in not voting for a bill that's not good for the country. I know many don't believe him. I think maybe he's reverting to the old John McCain maverick. |
Actually, I think he is just being a stubborn old man. He's not against the ideas in the current proposal, nor was he against the previous ones. He has just said all along that he wants the normal processes of the Senate to be used.
Collins and Murkowski (thanks CL for the correct spelling) were the two that were strong enough to vote no on the actual goals of the proposals. Paul Rand is all about making a point of the policies not going far enough, exact opposite of the two women senators but again, a no is a no.
They need to work together and start fixing the issues in ACA. The people have said they want it, so work on it.
But as others have noted, I don't care why he is a no as long as he is one. |
He hasn't been as firm as Collins and Murkowski but he's been consistent. Maybe he believes if the bill goes to the floor it will adopt amendments that will be better for all concerned. He seems to want bi-partisan participation.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| McCain is not running for re-election. His own health status is in jeopardy. As people on Twitter say, he has no (bleep)(s) left to give. That could mean siding with GOP on the next bill or siding with the Democrats. Glad he's voting no this time, but that doesn't necessarily make him an ally on the side of regular Americans. |
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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They really trying to get John McCain to punch his own ticket to Hell. Bunch of soul-less demons....
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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McCain is a Republican. He'll vote party lines on most issues. On this particular issue he seems to waffle but IMO he doesn't want the bill to pass as is. His stance seems to beg bi-partisan participation.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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SweetP
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Erdogan's thugs at it again?
Anti-Erdogan protesters attacked in New York at his speech. Last time it was his guards attacking US citizens on US soil, likely the same here. Trump will probably say "good people on both sides, both sides"
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Cant believe over 60 million people voted for agent orange (Trump).
This is the first time I've personally witnessed tens of millions of people voting against their own self-interest. That's how powerful Alex Jones, Rush, O'Reilly, Fox News, and Brietbart are. People might actually vote their own self interest if they didn't exist.
I remember taking political philosophy in undergrad. I loved it. Multiple people throughout recorded history have tried to theorize what the perfect representational government would be. Be it Plato, Hobbes, Bacon, Calvin, or even Marx. People voting against their self interests wasn't factored in with regards to a fair government. All those guys figured that was a given. People will push for what's best for themselves. But the lower and middle class Republicans in modern America don't subscribe to that common sense.
If you are a rich top 1% Republican I get it. But everyone else in that party. They are either idiots or brainwashed. Probably both.
http://barkbarkwoofwoof.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Keep-Government-out-of-Medicare-11-21-16.jpg
http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef017742efed55970d-320wi
https://www.zebrafactcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Keep-Your-Government-Hands-Off-My-Medicare.png
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Cant believe over 60 million people voted for agent orange (Trump).
This is the first time I've personally witnessed tens of millions of people voting against their own self-interest. That's how powerful Alex Jones, Rush, O'Reilly, Fox News, and Brietbart are. People might actually vote their own self interest if they didn't exist.
I remember taking political philosophy in undergrad. I loved it. Multiple people throughout recorded history have tried to theorize what the perfect representational government would be. Be it Plato, Hobbes, Bacon, Calvin, or even Marx. People voting against their self interests wasn't factored in with regards to a fair government. All those guys figured that was a given. People will push for what's best for themselves. But the lower and middle class Republicans in modern America don't subscribe to that common sense.
If you are a rich top 1% Republican I get it. But everyone else in that party. They are either idiots or brainwashed. Probably both. |
That's what I always tell my students, particularly regarding Marx. He never considered culture as a significant motivator for people's actions. And, in a way, Bernie never figured that part out in the primaries and still doesn't seem to understand it. Focusing on class is incomplete. It's not that people vote against their interests (and they do it often), it's that objective economic factors are often irrelevant to people. We have different and competing tribes in this country. And members that belong to the same tribe often have nothing common. There's very little Trump and people like him share with most of his voters, and yet they feel as one because of their common hatred of their enemies, the liberal tribe.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Chris Hayes MSNBC reporting; McCain (NO) Collins (Leaning NO) Murkowski (UNDECIDED)
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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tlim
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Chris Hayes MSNBC reporting; McCain (NO) Collins (Leaning NO) Murkowski (UNDECIDED) |
Rand Paul is a NO as well, but for some other reasons. |
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tlim
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| So with Trump's comments tonight on Kaepernick and players protests, the NFLPA should hold a meeting and all players should boycott this week. |
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lakeshow03
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | | So with Trump's comments tonight on Kaepernick and players protests, the NFLPA should hold a meeting and all players should boycott this week. |
Too lazy to google at the moment, what did he say? |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| lakeshow03 wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | So with Trump's comments tonight on Kaepernick and players protests, the NFLPA should hold a meeting and all players should boycott this week. |
Too lazy to google at the moment, what did he say? |
“We’re proud of our country, we respect our flag,” Trump told supporters in Huntsville.
“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when someone disrespects our flags to say, `Get that son of a (bleep) off the field right now! Out. He’s fired! He’s fired!“
Trump then pranced around the stage, arms extended, to soak up wild applause from supporters chanting, “USA, USA, USA!” |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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At the very least, the owners should release a statement telling him he's full of (bleep). But they probably won't since some of them donated to his campaign.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | When he says that Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, he's lying. It took many months, countless committee hearings, testimonies by experts, countless amendments (many by Republicans) before Obamacare became law.
And when he says that Graham-Cassidy are acting on what's in the best interest of the country, he's lying there too. This is not about the country, it's about a stupid promise they made and to pave the way for a huge tax cut.
But as I said, if he votes NO, that's good enough for me. |
I agree with lying about the Dems. On Graham-Cassidy he said they're acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what's best for the country, that's party politics.
I hope McCain stands firm in not voting for a bill that's not good for the country. I know many don't believe him. I think maybe he's reverting to the old John McCain maverick. |
Actually, I think he is just being a stubborn old man. He's not against the ideas in the current proposal, nor was he against the previous ones. He has just said all along that he wants the normal processes of the Senate to be used.
Collins and Murkowski (thanks CL for the correct spelling) were the two that were strong enough to vote no on the actual goals of the proposals. Paul Rand is all about making a point of the policies not going far enough, exact opposite of the two women senators but again, a no is a no.
They need to work together and start fixing the issues in ACA. The people have said they want it, so work on it.
And by the way, I don't disagree with McCain, I think the Senate and the House both need to start legislating properly and stop all the obstructing and partisan games but I think his vote on this is more about his belief in the Senate procedures than his desire to help people keep and get healthcare. Perhaps the prognosis he is now facing enters into his decision a bit, knowing many, many people would not be able to access the care he can get to give him as much time with his family as possible. And maybe sticking it to Trump enters into it some but I think his main issue is the procedural one, it is what he has stressed publically over and over.
But as others have noted, I don't care why he is a no as long as he is one. |
I can't speak on his true motives, whether or not he's against the proposals. He admitted he didn't know what's all in the bill. He doesn't think many do. I think he wants a bi-partisan solution.
Republicans are up against it. They made promises they've not been able to keep. They're desperate to pass anything. I also believe their true agenda is tax breaks for the wealthy. They fear losing huge donations and have been threatened that would happen if they don't get tax reform (tax cuts).
It's time to drop the repeal and replace and start tweaking what's in place. The only way I see that happening is if it's done bilaterally.
I'm going to give McCain the benefit of the doubt and side with him doing the right thing for the right reasons. His true motives are subjective.
Sticking it to The Donald probably weighed in his decision. How heavily is unknown.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | lakeshow03 wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | So with Trump's comments tonight on Kaepernick and players protests, the NFLPA should hold a meeting and all players should boycott this week. |
Too lazy to google at the moment, what did he say? |
“We’re proud of our country, we respect our flag,” Trump told supporters in Huntsville.
“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when someone disrespects our flags to say, `Get that son of a (bleep) off the field right now! Out. He’s fired! He’s fired!“
Trump then pranced around the stage, arms extended, to soak up wild applause from supporters chanting, “USA, USA, USA!” |
Wouldn't you just love it if those in government would say to someone who said [quote] | Quote: | | Quote: | | I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it. |
| Quote: | | I did try and (bleep) her. She was married. |
| Quote: | No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.
She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —
I moved on her like a (bleep). But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony (bleep) and everything. She’s totally changed her look. |
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Get that son of a (bleep) out of office right now, Out. He’s fired! He’s fired!“
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:15 am Post subject: |
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The petty son-of a-(bleep) in chief:
| Quote: | Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
Going to the White House is considered a great honor for a championship team.Stephen Curry is hesitating,therefore invitation is withdrawn! |
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