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noahp45
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lakersken80
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | People from various factions don't believe the media for different reasons.
I have a couple friends on the left that post daily about how vaccines are very harmful, the Rothschilds own the entire world, chemtrails are killling us all, Queen Elizabeth runs world politics, etc. They don't believe anything they read in the media. |
Distrust of the media goes back to being that only a couple of mega corporations own all media outlets here in the US. In other countries like Russia, the government owns the media, here in the US its a handful of corporations. |
Sure, I don't like the fact that only a handful of corporations own most media outlets, but that doesn't mean that they employ an army of dishonest journalists who take their marching orders from their corporate bosses. That's what many on the right and left unfortunately believe. Maybe there's an implicit agreement that people that, say, work for NBC won't run stories detrimental to Comcast, but I think our mainstream media is generally free and has certain standards. They make mistakes and that's life. |
The journalists may have an honest intent, but you have people in the higher ups that has the power to kill or bury a story. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | If I remember correctly, the Congresswoman just happened to be there when the call was made and is a friend of the family, so to say that it "stuns" him that she was there during the call is Trumpian spin because it assumes that everyone opposing Trump has the same malicious motivations as Trump, and that's how even good people like Kelly lose credibility. When you work in an environment of constant dishonesty, that's what happens. |
I don't know if this has been posted. Considering Trump's record on things such as this I lean toward the Congresswoman's account. Trump, I have proof, let her make her statement again and you'll find out, typical Trumpism.
LINK
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | If I remember correctly, the Congresswoman just happened to be there when the call was made and is a friend of the family, so to say that it "stuns" him that she was there during the call is Trumpian spin because it assumes that everyone opposing Trump has the same malicious motivations as Trump, and that's how even good people like Kelly lose credibility. When you work in an environment of constant dishonesty, that's what happens. |
I don't know if this has been posted. Considering Trump's record on things such as this I lean toward the Congresswoman's account. Trump, I have proof, let her make her statement again and you'll find out, typical Trumpism.
LINK |
Yeah, turned out he didn't have proof. |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get this thinking. If Iran is our enemy, we want to curb their capability to obtain/expand their nuclear weaponship. The Iran deal is the way to get that done. What is the alternative? more unilateral US sanctions, would that prevent Iran from obtaining/expanding Nuclear capabilities? War with Iran? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | If I remember correctly, the Congresswoman just happened to be there when the call was made and is a friend of the family, so to say that it "stuns" him that she was there during the call is Trumpian spin because it assumes that everyone opposing Trump has the same malicious motivations as Trump, and that's how even good people like Kelly lose credibility. When you work in an environment of constant dishonesty, that's what happens. |
I don't know if this has been posted. Considering Trump's record on things such as this I lean toward the Congresswoman's account. Trump, I have proof, let her make her statement again and you'll find out, typical Trumpism.
LINK |
Yeah, turned out he didn't have proof. |
So we have a president who suffers from mythomania. Can that be diagnosed and a reason for attempting amendment 25? I know, I know, I'm really, really, reaching.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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***Trump supporter translator computing***
Beep..boop...beep..bop...beep..boop...
Correct Response: "Kill all muslims. Pull out of Iran deal. Look at the mess Obama got us into."
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tlim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 6649
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: |
***Trump supporter translator computing***
Beep..boop...beep..bop...beep..boop...
Correct Response: "Kill all muslims. Pull out of Iran deal. Look at the mess Obama got us into." |
Have you noticed that noah wants to continually post rhetoric but once hard questions are asked, he just goes quiet and then starts up a new thread attacking yet another thing?
It doesn't seem like he can articulate about any real "whys" except for what he's told. He's basically using this as a platform to send and campaign about his views and not necessarily article or reason about it. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: |
***Trump supporter translator computing***
Beep..boop...beep..bop...beep..boop...
Correct Response: "Kill all muslims. Pull out of Iran deal. Look at the mess Obama got us into." |
Have you noticed that noah wants to continually post rhetoric but once hard questions are asked, he just goes quiet and then starts up a new thread attacking yet another thing?
It doesn't seem like he can articulate about any real "whys" except for what he's told. He's basically using this as a platform to send and campaign about his views and not necessarily article or reason about it. |
noah is a perfect example of a Trump supporter and why we're in such dire straits. Trump supporters won't believe fat meat's greasy unless Donald tells them it is.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Let's not make this about noah or any other poster. That said, I admit that its come to a point for me that, while I understand how someone can support some of Trump's policies (even if I disagree), I cannot understand or reconcile how someone, anyone, can support Trump the man. My assumption at this point if you support Trump the man is that you are either stupid, uneducated, immoral, evil or all of the above. That's sad to say, but its true. I don't like feeling this way or living in a world that makes me feel this way.
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | If I remember correctly, the Congresswoman just happened to be there when the call was made and is a friend of the family, so to say that it "stuns" him that she was there during the call is Trumpian spin because it assumes that everyone opposing Trump has the same malicious motivations as Trump, and that's how even good people like Kelly lose credibility. When you work in an environment of constant dishonesty, that's what happens. |
I don't know if this has been posted. Considering Trump's record on things such as this I lean toward the Congresswoman's account. Trump, I have proof, let her make her statement again and you'll find out, typical Trumpism.
LINK |
Didn't Trump's "proof" turn out to be other people who were in the room with him and heard what he said? So Trump can have other people there to hear the conversation, but Kelly is "stunned" that the same thing happened on the other end of the line? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Let's not make this about noah or any other poster. That said, I admit that its come to a point for me that, while I understand how someone can support some of Trump's policies (even if I disagree), I cannot understand or reconcile how someone, anyone, can support Trump the man. My assumption at this point if you support Trump the man is that you are either stupid, uneducated, immoral, evil or all of the above. That's sad to say, but its true. I don't like feeling this way or living in a world that makes me feel this way. |
Agreed. But it's important to note that noah is indicative of a large and thus meaningful portion of our citizenry. Not meaningful in a substantive way. These are people who formulate their views based on base emotions of fear and contempt and thus people like Bannon and Alex Jones lead them around by the nose. They believe what they are told by the voices they selectively choose and don't engage in deductive reasoning and rational thought. These are people who will say with complete conviction that they don't care that stripping away the ACA will literally compromise their health and possible kill them or their relatives - they just want Obamacare gone because of the name's association with that black President. These are people who will literally say with pride that they don't give a (bleep) about anyone else other than themselves (as we have seen more than one person in this thread alone say). There's no concern for the greater good of the Nation, it's all about their personal collective.
However, these people meaningful in a collective way. There is no shortage of "noahs" in the country, as unfortunate as that may be and how dangerous it is for the fabric of what this country is supposed to be about. It's easy to dismiss the "noahs" we encounter. But we have to realizer that such people are not lone voices of individual cranks who are outliers and thus easily dismissed. No, they exist in numbers that must be acknowledged. Not for the value of their viewpoint, but for the fact that as much as their message maybe vile, dangerous and nonsensical, their message is one that can't be ignored simply because it's shared with many others. They think that just because others share their abhorrent views, it gives their views substance. Rational people realize it doesn't work that way, but as rational people we have to acknowledge that the numbers present a problem that must be dealt with - and dealt with in a reasonable and rational manner.
It both saddens and scares me that my children now have to grown up in a world where Trump and the GOP have normalized and emboldened the seamy under-belly of this Nation. Which is why it is important to not dismiss the sole crank for his message and to acknowledge that there is a large segment of this country who shares the views of that crank.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ani007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| it scares me how much i'd kill to have George Bush as Prez. Compare to trump he sounds like a soaring orator, a moral voice, etc. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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There were 3 big X-factors Trump had working in his favor in 2016.
1) Racial backlash against the party that brought the country 8 years of an African American President
2) First female candidate to win the Presidential nomination from one of the 2 main parties
3) Russia propaganda interference in our election
And to this day, I wonder. Maybe just 1 of those 3 would've been enough to swing the election (let alone all 3). I have alot of anxiety in terms of 2020. I'm not confident at all that Trump will lose. Because I'm not sure how much weight each of those 3 factors had (in relation to one another).
I fully expect Russia propaganda to be a factor again in 2020 (probably 2018 as well). So if that was the most important factor, that scares me. Also people will still have racial animosity towards "Barack's party" in 2020 too.
I don't think my worries/uncertainty are unique. Alot of Democrats probably feel similarly to the way I do. And Trump interprets that energy as bitterness and vindictiveness. But really I think the energy is just a "what the (bleep) happened" vibe. Its tough to be confident about 2020, when its still murky what was our fatal flaw(s) in 2016.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ani007
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | There were 3 big X-factors Trump had working in his favor in 2016.
1) Racial backlash against the party that brought the country 8 years of an African American President
2) First female candidate to win the Presidential nomination from one of the 2 main parties
3) Russia propaganda interference in our election
And to this day, I wonder. Maybe just 1 of those 3 would've been enough to swing the election (let alone all 3). I have alot of anxiety in terms of 2020. I'm not confident at all that Trump will lose. Because I'm not sure how much weight each of those 3 factors had (in relation to one another).
I fully expect Russia propaganda to be a factor again in 2020 (probably 2018 as well). So if that was the most important factor, that scares me. Also people will still have racial animosity towards "Barack's party" in 2020 too.
I don't think my worries/uncertainty is unique. Alot of Democrats probably feel similarly to the way I do. And Trump interprets that energy as bitterness and vindictiveness. But really I think the energy is just a "what the (bleep) happened" vibe. Its tough to be confident about 2020, when its still murky what was our fatal flaw in 2016. |
Considering our current PO(tu)S is in totally in bed with Putin, their propaganda and interference is the least of our problems. Russia runs the White House now.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | There were 3 big X-factors Trump had working in his favor in 2016.
1) Racial backlash against the party that brought the country 8 years of an African American President
2) First female candidate to win the Presidential nomination from one of the 2 main parties
3) Russia propaganda interference in our election
And to this day, I wonder. Maybe just 1 of those 3 would've been enough to swing the election (let alone all 3). I have alot of anxiety in terms of 2020. I'm not confident at all that Trump will lose. Because I'm not sure how much weight each of those 3 factors had (in relation to one another).
I fully expect Russia propaganda to be a factor again in 2020 (probably 2018 as well). So if that was the most important factor, that scares me. Also people will still have racial animosity towards "Barack's party" in 2020 too.
I don't think my worries/uncertainty are unique. Alot of Democrats probably feel similarly to the way I do. And Trump interprets that energy as bitterness and vindictiveness. But really I think the energy is just a "what the (bleep) happened" vibe. Its tough to be confident about 2020, when its still murky what was our fatal flaw(s) in 2016. |
Two huge factors are left off of your list. Gerrymandering and voter suppression. Both are kind of a big deal. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | There were 3 big X-factors Trump had working in his favor in 2016.
1) Racial backlash against the party that brought the country 8 years of an African American President
2) First female candidate to win the Presidential nomination from one of the 2 main parties
3) Russia propaganda interference in our election
And to this day, I wonder. Maybe just 1 of those 3 would've been enough to swing the election (let alone all 3). I have alot of anxiety in terms of 2020. I'm not confident at all that Trump will lose. Because I'm not sure how much weight each of those 3 factors had (in relation to one another).
I fully expect Russia propaganda to be a factor again in 2020 (probably 2018 as well). So if that was the most important factor, that scares me. Also people will still have racial animosity towards "Barack's party" in 2020 too.
I don't think my worries/uncertainty are unique. Alot of Democrats probably feel similarly to the way I do. And Trump interprets that energy as bitterness and vindictiveness. But really I think the energy is just a "what the (bleep) happened" vibe. Its tough to be confident about 2020, when its still murky what was our fatal flaw(s) in 2016. |
And Voter Suppression (GOP voter I.D. laws specifically designed to suppress Democratic vote, particular the black vote in key swing states). See article I posted on the last page by Ari Berman of Mother Jones.
(HTP beat me to part of this.) |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Lawrence O'Donnell did a great job summarizing Kelly's appearance today. I highly recommend it. They have similar Boston backgrounds. He pointed out the good (such as how Kelly talked about his son, about the impossibility of making a perfect call to a grieving family, etc.) and the bad, including Kelly's strange attack on that Congresswoman as an "empty barrel."
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | There were 3 big X-factors Trump had working in his favor in 2016.
1) Racial backlash against the party that brought the country 8 years of an African American President
2) First female candidate to win the Presidential nomination from one of the 2 main parties
3) Russia propaganda interference in our election
And to this day, I wonder. Maybe just 1 of those 3 would've been enough to swing the election (let alone all 3). I have alot of anxiety in terms of 2020. I'm not confident at all that Trump will lose. Because I'm not sure how much weight each of those 3 factors had (in relation to one another).
I fully expect Russia propaganda to be a factor again in 2020 (probably 2018 as well). So if that was the most important factor, that scares me. Also people will still have racial animosity towards "Barack's party" in 2020 too.
I don't think my worries/uncertainty are unique. Alot of Democrats probably feel similarly to the way I do. And Trump interprets that energy as bitterness and vindictiveness. But really I think the energy is just a "what the (bleep) happened" vibe. Its tough to be confident about 2020, when its still murky what was our fatal flaw(s) in 2016. |
Its not hard or rocket science. all the DNC has to do is endorse the RIGHT candidate for the right reasons. Right being people reasons. Meaning citizens reasons. If the DNC keep trying to push the next Corporate dem out there with no regard for the people. We will keep allowing the noah's of the US push their crazee into the white house(if there's one on the ballot).
There are more dem voters out there. but they wont show up to vote. That means dems have to do what they need to do in order to get those non voting dems to the polls. Thats it. it wont matter if the russians are pushing an agenda to the noahs. the numbers are too high for these non voting dems. if you can get them to vote, it will be a landslide in the dems favor. But you need to do this not just for the white house but for congress, state government, local, etc.
And no i dont think every dem idea is a great idea. I just know for fact pretty much every republican current day idea is a bad to horrible idea. until that changes I can't even entertain them. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Two huge factors are left off of your list. Gerrymandering and voter suppression. Both are kind of a big deal. |
| ChefLinda wrote: | And Voter Suppression (GOP voter I.D. laws specifically designed to suppress Democratic vote, particular the black vote in key swing states). See article I posted on the last page by Ari Berman of Mother Jones.
(HTP beat me to part of this.) |
That was a great link CL.
Voter suppression and gerrymandering were factors as well. Didn't put them on the list because I figured they were constants from past elections (when we still won). But I'm pretty ignorant on the topic. If you guys say v.s. and gerrymandering played an even larger role than in past elections. I believe you.
To this day, I don't understand how voting day isn't a national holiday. Seems like a pretty common sense idea. 1 day every 4 years (and eventually every year). If it's "too expensive to the economy", make people work on 1 of our other BS holidays to make up the difference (I'm looking at you Columbus Day). Dems should push for a voting national holiday next time they hold an ounce of power in Washington.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: |
Its not hard or rocket science. all the DNC has to do is endorse the RIGHT candidate for the right reasons. Right being people reasons. Meaning citizens reasons. If the DNC keep trying to push the next Corporate dem out there with no regard for the people. We will keep allowing the noah's of the US push their crazee into the white house(if there's one on the ballot).
There are more dem voters out there. but they wont show up to vote. That means dems have to do what they need to do in order to get those non voting dems to the polls. Thats it. it wont matter if the russians are pushing an agenda to the noahs. the numbers are too high for these non voting dems. if you can get them to vote, it will be a landslide in the dems favor. But you need to do this not just for the white house but for congress, state government, local, etc.
And no i dont think every dem idea is a great idea. I just know for fact pretty much every republican current day idea is a bad to horrible idea. until that changes I can't even entertain them. |
The bolded makes me think of 2 questions. In 2020 if the Dems nominate a candidate like 2016 Bernie, would the big $ donors leave the party? And if the big $ donors leave, can we still win without them? The campaign with more $ normally wins. But hey Trump had less money and he won. So screw traditional wisdom.
I remember in '08 and '12 Dems got a ton of small donations from people online. People buying clothing and small items.
I mean we lost to the most unqualified and offensive Presidential candidate since .... I dunno. What do we have to lose? Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of losing the corporate wing of the party.
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Buck32
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Posts: 7328
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Lawrence O'Donnell did a great job summarizing Kelly's appearance today. I highly recommend it. They have similar Boston backgrounds. He pointed out the good (such as how Kelly talked about his son, about the impossibility of making a perfect call to a grieving family, etc.) and the bad, including Kelly's strange attack on that Congresswoman as an "empty barrel." |
I've said it before that Kelly is not honorable as he is perceived to be. He may have chest-full of medals but you have to be partly evil to stand behind the POS in the WH. Those pictures of him seemingly grimacing at Trump's lies are nothing more than people "wishful thinking"that therés some sanity in the WH.
I think he agrees with Trump's racist, fascist and misogynistic views like everyone in the WH. He's Trump's Beria or Himmler.
I hope he and whatever reputation he has built go down in flames with Trump.
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5160
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Something has been on my mind for a longtime
Women being topless!
i know for me i approve and infact 47 states have no laws against women being topless.
Do women find it a little weird when a guy takes of his shirt?
I hate shirts so the second i get a chance im not wearing one, if my sisters did this around me it would be weird but when I think about it i try to not wear one regardless of who im with and i dont find that weird 
I know my question was more social and less about the politics but we can get in that too so i thought this was a good place for this |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Lawrence O'Donnell did a great job summarizing Kelly's appearance today. I highly recommend it. They have similar Boston backgrounds. He pointed out the good (such as how Kelly talked about his son, about the impossibility of making a perfect call to a grieving family, etc.) and the bad, including Kelly's strange attack on that Congresswoman as an "empty barrel." |
I think Kelly's just trying to protect the office of presidency as it is his job. I agree with Kelly, that convo should be kept private but I wish he also said it was inappropriate for POTUS to brought up his son's death or accusing previous POTUS of not calling gold star families. Kudos to him for doing that especially after Trump brought up his son's death |
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