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vanexelent
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 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | It should also be noted that Tweeden is a frequent Hannity guest. |
Yep. And one segment she appeared just so Hannity could pretend he didn't know she was in Playboy and that it was something she and her husband BOTH wanted! Yeah, that's believable. |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | What should Al Franken do now? These allegations actually have pictures showing him groping a sleeping woman. Step down as Republicans are getting voted in for far far worse crimes? |
Well, there go his chances for presidency in 2020.
Unless he changes parties.
I'd support resignation, personally. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Remember when the right used to go apoplectic about Obama "buying" poor people's votes by "giving" them cell phones? Well look at this reward to GOP donors:
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | What should Al Franken do now? These allegations actually have pictures showing him groping a sleeping woman. Step down as Republicans are getting voted in for far far worse crimes? |
Well, there go his chances for presidency in 2020.
Unless he changes parties.
I'd support resignation, personally. |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ani007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
Please explain how I defended Franken? I said what he did was sick sexual abuse assault and if he resigns or gets expelled I wouldn't have qualms with that. Yes, I did mention I think pedophilia is worse than a crass picture of Franken barely touching kevlar, and a forceful kiss during rehearsal. With the preponderance of evidence against Moore and behavior patterns and predilictions clear as day to me, I do judge pedophilia to be worse.
The response by Franken is also dramatically different from Moore. If 5 ppl came out against Franken and he threatened to sue and gave shady as f answers to even softball questions, I'd be ready to condemn damn and expel him.
Pointing out their situations are different is just fact. And if I think pedophilia is worse, how does that translate to defending Franken?
I'm with jodeke on the picture part although I'd still label it sexual assault. But to me that's still a far cry from trying to pick up 14 years olds and taking them to your cabin in the woods kicking them out of cars abusing his official position as ADA |
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ani007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
Please explain how I defended Franken? I said what he did was sick sexual abuse assault and if he resigns or gets expelled I wouldn't have qualms with that. Yes, I did mention I think pedophilia is worse than a crass picture of Franken barely touching kevlar, and a forceful kiss during rehearsal. With the preponderance of evidence against Moore and behavior patterns and predilictions clear as day to me, I do judge pedophilia to be worse.
The response by Franken is also dramatically different from Moore. If 5 ppl came out against Franken and he threatened to sue and gave shady as f answers to even softball questions, I'd be ready to condemn damn and expel him.
Pointing out their situations are different is just fact. And if I think pedophilia is worse, how does that translate to defending Franken?
I'm with jodeke on the picture part although I'd still label it sexual assault. But to me that's still a far cry from trying to pick up 14 years olds and taking them to your cabin in the woods kicking them out of cars abusing his official position as ADA |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think Franken had any desire to run. That was mostly pundit talk and speculation. IMO. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| If this tax cut bill goes through I predict unCivil War |
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vanexelent
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | I don't think Franken had any desire to run. That was mostly pundit talk and speculation. IMO. |
He was actually on Marc Maron's podcast awhile back and expressed exactly that as I recall.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
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And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | It should also be noted that Tweeden is a frequent Hannity guest. |
It should also be noted that that fact neither obviates (hah) her credibility, nor should it be ignored either. It's just one piece to weigh.
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Thugnomoe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
No one here is attacking the woman or calling her a liar. People are considering the information as it comes in. Some people think he should resign, some think censure, some think let's see what ethics investigation turns up.
I'm not sure what your point is? If you're trying to pull a "both sides are the same!" riff, I would say you've proven no such thing.
If your point was to pop into the thread to troll the left, then yeah, we see you. |
my point isn't to say both sides are the same.. I'm saying both sides have evil people in them.. there is systemic immorality and corruption and needs some serious swamp drainage.
its funny how both sides condemn each other and say that they're the morally superior team.
smaller gov't.. not some elitist morally corrupt people 3000 miles away telling us how to live our lives. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Jared Kushner Failed To Disclose WikiLeaks Email And Russia Dinner Invite, Senators Say
The leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee are calling on President Donald Trump’s adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner to turn over communications about WikiLeaks and a “Russian backdoor overture and dinner invite” they say he failed to previously disclose to investigators.
Committee chair Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and ranking member Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) sent a letter to Kushner’s attorney Thursday requesting he provide additional information to aid the committee’s investigation into whether Trump’s campaign officials actively colluded with the Russian government to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. According to the letter, the committee became aware of several communications Kushner failed to disclose because other witnesses gave them the documents.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ani007 wrote: | | I'm with jodeke on the picture part although I'd still label it sexual assault. But to me that's still a far cry from trying to pick up 14 years olds and taking them to your cabin in the woods kicking them out of cars abusing his official position as ADA |
Whether it's sexual assault or not is a legal question. I would have defaulted to "yes," but I recognize from a recent dialog with AH that there's a threshold for that, and that this might fall under a less serious sexual battery categorization.
But...yeah, in some respects this is a binary situation -- he groped her, and depending on how her anecdote turns out about how he behaved at their rehearsal, he was inappropriate there as well. In that regard he needs to be called to the table, and needs to suffer the consequences.
But we also can't paint, say, Franken & Moore with the same brush. We have what so far looks like an isolated event compared to a serial pattern of behavior, the underage dimension with Moore, and contrition in one case vs. denial, excuse making and victim blaming on the other.
In Franken's case I support a Senate Ethics Committee review, and his accepting their findings and recommendations -- whatever they may be. If he loses his Senate seat over this than so be it, because while I may like him being in that seat from a political standpoint, it's more important to make clear that this kind of behavior isn't tolerated.
And if a downstream effect is that it sets the bar for adjudicating more serious versions of this behavior for people like Moore & Trump, then so much the better. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Thugnomoe wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
No one here is attacking the woman or calling her a liar. People are considering the information as it comes in. Some people think he should resign, some think censure, some think let's see what ethics investigation turns up.
I'm not sure what your point is? If you're trying to pull a "both sides are the same!" riff, I would say you've proven no such thing.
If your point was to pop into the thread to troll the left, then yeah, we see you. |
my point isn't to say both sides are the same.. I'm saying both sides have evil people in them..]there is systemic immorality and corruption and needs some serious swamp drainage.
its funny how both sides condemn each other and say that they're the morally superior team.
smaller gov't.. not some elitist morally corrupt people 3000 miles away telling us how to live our lives. |
Trumpism
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ani007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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whatboutism muddies the water so much as john oliver said
Delegitimizing media - "whataboutism" - trolling
| Quote: | | Trump's slightly subtler tactic is a term Oliver called "whataboutism," a fallacy with roots in old Soviet propaganda that shifts any given topic to another, potentially irrelevant one. "It implies that all actions regardless of context share a moral equivalency," says Oliver. "And since nobody is perfect, all criticism is hypocritical and everyone should do whatever they want ... It doesn't solve a problem or win an argument. The point is just to muddy the waters, which just makes the other side mad." |
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SweetP
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Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Thugnomoe wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
No one here is attacking the woman or calling her a liar. People are considering the information as it comes in. Some people think he should resign, some think censure, some think let's see what ethics investigation turns up.
I'm not sure what your point is? If you're trying to pull a "both sides are the same!" riff, I would say you've proven no such thing.
If your point was to pop into the thread to troll the left, then yeah, we see you. |
my point isn't to say both sides are the same.. I'm saying both sides have evil people in them.. there is systemic immorality and corruption and needs some serious swamp drainage.
its funny how both sides condemn each other and say that they're the morally superior team.
smaller gov't.. not some elitist morally corrupt people 3000 miles away telling us how to live our lives. |
Yeah, just a morally corrupt local DA in a small town telling us how to live our lives while he chases after teen-age girls.
The swamp can be local too.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: |
Pipeline leaking???!! No one could have POSSIBLY seen this coming.
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And since there is an old Trump tweet for everything:
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Trumps corrupt, his family's corrupt, his administration is corrupt. What's keeping him Teflon Don? We have a system that can unseat Trump. It's not being used. Politicians won't do it. I believe Mueller's trying. I think he'll be the country's savior.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Trumps corrupt, his family's corrupt, his administration is corrupt. What's keeping him Teflon Don? We have a system that can unseat Trump. It's not being used. Politicians won't do it. I believe Mueller's trying. I think he'll be the country's savior. |
It's the REPUBLICAN politicians who won't do it. And a big part of the blame goes to the GOP VOTERS who handed all 3 branches of government to the same sleazy party who hasn't functionally governed in about 20 years. It will take Mueller plus Democrats retaking the House in 2018 to even start the process. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | Thugnomoe wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Thugnomoe wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not as bad as Moore pursuing underage girls, but if the democrats are to maintain any moral high ground with this stuff they need to eat their own when these things come out. Franken needs to resign. |
I don't think he needs to resign, unless Trump does. Her claim essentially comes down to this picture, which does appear like a comic gag. He's looking directly at the camera and not her.
The backlash could be bad though. |
| ani007 wrote: | | i don't feel al franken's situation is exactly comparable to moore's. franken was a dick no doubt and his "jokes" (nothing funny about forceable kisses or being groped while asleep) meandered into sexual assault terrority, but the reports on Moore to me are more depraved and criminal in nature. iono how much of this is bias cuz i like franken what little i know of him |
no ones defending franken?
the "middle" in this thread is pretty left... middle for california maybe.. but not middle for the rest of the country.
not a ton of "diversity of thought" here. |
No one here is attacking the woman or calling her a liar. People are considering the information as it comes in. Some people think he should resign, some think censure, some think let's see what ethics investigation turns up.
I'm not sure what your point is? If you're trying to pull a "both sides are the same!" riff, I would say you've proven no such thing.
If your point was to pop into the thread to troll the left, then yeah, we see you. |
my point isn't to say both sides are the same.. I'm saying both sides have evil people in them.. there is systemic immorality and corruption and needs some serious swamp drainage.
its funny how both sides condemn each other and say that they're the morally superior team.
smaller gov't.. not some elitist morally corrupt people 3000 miles away telling us how to live our lives. |
Yeah, just a morally corrupt local DA in a small town telling us how to live our lives while he chases after teen-age girls.
The swamp can be local too. |
There's actually a good argument that the lower levels of government are easier to corrupt...
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Al Franken proves we can't have nice things. Unless proven otherwise, I'll assume all of the allegations against him are true. That he did these things pisses me off more than hearing about all Trump has done. I expect this crap from Trump. While all men should know better, I definitely expected Franken to know better too.
I don't want him to resign. I want him to stay employed so he can go through the most transparent and humbling ethics investigation we've ever seen all the while everyone can ask why only one side of aisle seems to own up to their actions and find people accountable, regardless of whether or not the perpetrator belonged to their own party. I think the optics of seeing Franken go through this while Trump continues to work unscathed are terrible for the Republicans... and I'd like to see how conservative talk radio dares to touch this.
Still, that doesn't diminish the fact that what he did was wrong, that he harmed someone and that we likely just lost someone who was important on our side. I feel bad for the news anchor (regardless of her current motivations) and I feel bad that someone I thought I could respect couldn't just be the moral human being I assumed he was.
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| So Trump had no comment about Roy Moore but tweet instantly about Al ‘Frankenstein’... pretty sure this is the first time a POTUS is openly acting as a president for just one party instead of all US after elected. Between this, his reaction to black athletes’ protest... insane time |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Al Franken proves we can't have nice things. Unless proven otherwise, I'll assume all of the allegations against him are true. That he did these things pisses me off more than hearing about all Trump has done. I expect this crap from Trump. While all men should know better, I definitely expected Franken to know better too.
I don't want him to resign. I want him to stay employed so he can go through the most transparent and humbling ethics investigation we've ever seen all the while everyone can ask why only one side of aisle seems to own up to their actions and find people accountable, regardless of whether or not the perpetrator belonged to their own party. I think the optics of seeing Franken go through this while Trump continues to work unscathed are terrible for the Republicans... and I'd like to see how conservative talk radio dares to touch this.
Still, that doesn't diminish the fact that what he did was wrong, that he harmed someone and that we likely just lost someone who was important on our side. I feel bad for the news anchor (regardless of her current motivations) and I feel bad that someone I thought I could respect couldn't just be the moral human being I assumed he was. |
A very disappointing turn of events for sure.
As for the bolded, Repugnicants don't give a crap about optics as long as the results are suiting them - as this whole Administration's behavior and the GOP's reaction to it proves.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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This billionaire administration really, really hates the poor:
| Quote: | The HillVerified account @thehill
JUST IN: Trump FCC votes to roll back program that helps low-income families afford Internet access http://hill.cm/EWR4yNn |
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