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Omar Little
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 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | What if your ISP decided you don't really need LG that badly and puts in the slow lane and it takes a full minute for the page to load? Are the "both sides" people still on board?
/rhetorical question |
What if a healthcare profesional needs immediate access to a cloud based application or one of those remote surgeon applications but it buffers during surgery because of all the bandwidth being hogged by Netflix watchers? Are the net neutrality people still on board?
What you guys actually want is a non-neutral net, with caveats. Such as, minimum quality level for the slow lane. Priority for medical applications, and so on. |
Sure, just like we want speed limits and red lights, while we accept emergency vehicles getting special access. What we don't like is if you buy a Toyota instead of a Chevy, you can get pulled over for driving half the speed of Toyota drivers, or if your vehicle triggers every red light. |
Right. And we can pass laws to prevent that if we want to. Has that even happened?
And what are your thoughts on toll roads?
I just think it makes sense that if you consume massive amounts of data, you pay more than he/she who consumes little. Bandwidth is finite. But net neutrality opposes that. Thats why i'm against it. That does not mean I am in favor of content blocking.
In short, you cannot have net neutrality with a slow/fast lane. But you can have slow/fast lanes while ensuring all legal content is.made equally accesible. |
Of course we haven't passed laws. Because one party isn't on board with net neutrality. Btw, paying more for using more data has nothing to do with net neutrality, nor is a toll road analogous. Unless you mean a toll road where you pay twice as much if you don't drive the car made by the company that has a deal with the toll road operator, or you mean waiting a lot longer to get on the road in the same situation.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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The internet is the last thing you need to worry about if your doctor can't perform a surgery without being connected....  |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Here's a conversation between my mom and I following a discussion about Roy Moore...
Me: We've gotten to this point where so many stories of sexual harassment haven't been told because, for generations, we've questioned and dismissed the accusers outright. Really, the largest problem, as you've experienced yourself (which my mom has), is that those in power have kept it this way and nothing will change until those at the top feel real consequences for letting these types of behaviors persist.
Mom: Yea, well we need to start by putting that rapist President in jail.
Me: Well, I'll just take getting him out of the office.
Mom: Bill Clinton's already out of the office.
Me:  |
That's a helluva drug they got going on the R side of things. Don't let her sneak any into the pumpkin pie. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure if we give ISPs the ability to provide faster connections to those who should receive it they'll no doubt give those faster connections to doctors, researchers, etc. as opposed to the highest bidder... just like I'm sure pharmaceutical companies consistently lower the price of life saving drugs to ensure that people can keep living, no less without going bankrupt where they do.
The market always corrects itself!
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maxstone
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Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| As comeone has mentioned about Al Franken, it doesn't matter what is going on with him, the allegations against Conyers are too bad and have already been investigated. He has to leave... |
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tlim
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Posts: 6649
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^^^ and trump always tells the truth! 😝 |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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The principle philosophy behind net neutrality is that all data be treated equally and requires the elimination of paid prioritization. The terminology is even outdated, as that is not how the internet works today although it sort of did at one point.
Net neutrality would look to end things like peering agreements. We don't want that. If those ended, say goodbye to netflix, youtube, hulu, etc.
The idea has two parts to it. Your access to the internet and its contents AND concepts like paid prioritization. The latter is what most people miss as they focus on the former. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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^I guess that's why Netflix is against net neutrality... oh, but wait, it isn't.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | The internet is the last thing you need to worry about if your doctor can't perform a surgery without being connected.... |
Not if its being done via telesurgery. It's already been done and on the horizon. |
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | The principle philosophy behind net neutrality is that all data be treated equally and requires the elimination of paid prioritization. The terminology is even outdated, as that is not how the internet works today although it sort of did at one point.
Net neutrality would look to end things like peering agreements. We don't want that. If those ended, say goodbye to netflix, youtube, hulu, etc.
The idea has two parts to it. Your access to the internet and its contents AND concepts like paid prioritization. The latter is what most people miss as they focus on the former. |
Say what?! End peering agreements? Like the peering agreements that have persisted for forever in the defacto net neutrality world? That simply. It the case that those would end with continued net neutrality rules. Who has voiced opposition to peering agreements other than VzW when it was fibbing about the peering between it and Netflix?
Paid prioritization is bs. It creates real estate on the last mile so larger providers are forced to ante up. If the last mile in cable wasn’t monopolistic in nature, then I would think about it. But it’s not. It now creates a barrier that didn’t exist before if you wanted fast internet. So the small shop that didn’t ante up would get slower rates. It’s prime for manipulation and Basically for extortion of anyone they see fit.
And again, the last mile is a monopoly. If not, it is at ost a duopoly. It’s easily manipulated, and the price of access is going to be on us. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: |
What if a healthcare profesional needs immediate access to a cloud based application or one of those remote surgeon applications but it buffers during surgery because of all the bandwidth being hogged by Netflix watchers? Are the net neutrality people still on board?
What you guys actually want is a non-neutral net, with caveats. Such as, minimum quality level for the slow lane. Priority for medical applications, and so on. |
Our Congress's can barely draft and pass simple legislation that has widespread bipartisan support.
And even in the rare cases they do get a bill passed through both houses the President doesn't even enforce the law (Russian sanctions).
So I don't trust the legislative and executive branches to foresee and address all the possible nuances to a "non-neutral net with caveats".
Heck what's the average age of Congressmen and Senators? Something tells me they aren't the best group to create the complicated technological legislation you are talking about.
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Really bothered by a local killing/murder ... I guess it brings me closer to what a child might be feeling who was her classmate or knew the persons involved. I am also caught by the strangeness that something 20 miles away is more meaningful than 200-500-1000 miles etc..
What is bothering me is, and I haven't read deepest details, a 15 year old was in court for sending threatening texts in mid October to the intended victim.. and at this time they found A DEATH LIST with her name at the top.
^^I believe he already had criminal issues.. Well lo and behold..... approximately THIRTY DAYS later a beautiful girl is dead .. her younger sister was the target.. the loving boyfriend of 3 years grieves.. the mother .. neighbors.. all family friends classmates teachers etc.. grieving sad..
The boy had a "death list" and it was known 30 days prior to him murdering one of the people on it..
Please take pause...
I am not wanting to move the emotional needle too far in either direction..
I really want to know how our society feels would be the best way to deal with any child that has expressed violence and is in possession of a "death list"
"Death List" for me = instant lockup
(bleep) childhood angst pranks etc
Next massive interrogation of his family and what led to this.. He is only 15
Next massive inspection of his home and all social electronic and library searches etc
I am not wanting to bash the legal system.. only a confused citizen
Caution when clicking link if don't want any sad stories.. beautiful girl and family.. all crushed.. for what??
Teen Allegedly Stabbed Former Schoolmate to Death — and Had 'Death List' with Her Sister's Name
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Grote, her sister and the suspect all at one point attended nearby Green Mountain High School together, the official tells PEOPLE, and in October the suspect was investigated by police after school officials said he allegedly sent threatening texts to Grote’s younger sister. (Grote reportedly graduated from the school in 2016.)
“[School district] security staff and local law enforcement quickly intervened and the student that made the threats is currently detained,” the Green Mountain High reportedly wrote in an Oct. 17 letter to families, according to the Times Call.
The paper reports that police discovered the “death list” during that earlier incident. However, when questioned, the suspect allegedly denied keeping such a thing.
“I would like to share that this tragedy is particularly heartbreaking because so many people on so many different levels worked to help the accused student as well as protect all our students,” a Green Mountain High spokeswoman told the Times Call after Grote’s death.
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https://www.gofundme.com/makayla-grote-memorial-fund |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Trump left for Mar-a-lago yesterday for the Thanksgiving weekend (his 96th day at a Trump property). He wakes up at 5:00 am and tweets this:
| Quote: | Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
...LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!
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What a petty, unhinged, racist megalomaniac. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: |
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he is trying to up the ante.. he is so upset that LaVar Ball is winning a game of Internet Trolling with President Trump
Trump hasn't gotten dudes blood pressure to rise yet and day before thanksgiving trump is
WOW... this better not get erased from twitter etc
| Quote: | | but no NBA contract to support you. |
<<back to the real (bleep).. I think Mueller is waiting to work a way Trump cant pardon anyone and we don't get stuck with either Pence or Ryan etc..
People ought to start making Trump Branded Nooses
Bet they would sell
I told everyone to investigate that Butler of Trumps as proof.. nobody but an aspiring Grand Wizard would have kept Anthony Senecal anywhere near them or their patrons |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Trump left for Mar-a-lago yesterday for the Thanksgiving weekend (his 96th day at a Trump property). He wakes up at 5:00 am and tweets this:
| Quote: | Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
...LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!
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What a petty, unhinged, racist megalomaniac. |
"It wasn't the white house - IT WAS ME"
(Then again, this means that something else big is going on... anything congress trying to pass today?)
Last edited by governator on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | The internet is the last thing you need to worry about if your doctor can't perform a surgery without being connected.... |
Not if its being done via telesurgery. It's already been done and on the horizon. |
That telesurgery argument is a load of BS.
First once you get out of the last mile traffic which is handled by the ISP, all data is treated the same on the internet. That means the packets for your "so-called internet surgery" vs Netflix is handled the same. There is nothing this paid prioritization will change about that fundamental part of the internet. If there is a routing error you are screwed. If hackers want to send a bunch of bots to take down the internet, they can do it....your paid prioritization can do nothing about it. It doesn't matter how much money you paid for your service. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | The principle philosophy behind net neutrality is that all data be treated equally and requires the elimination of paid prioritization. The terminology is even outdated, as that is not how the internet works today although it sort of did at one point.
Net neutrality would look to end things like peering agreements. We don't want that. If those ended, say goodbye to netflix, youtube, hulu, etc.
The idea has two parts to it. Your access to the internet and its contents AND concepts like paid prioritization. The latter is what most people miss as they focus on the former. |
Me thinks you have a terrible understanding of how the internet works.
Data is already treated equally on the internet. When your data is being passed outside of the ISP's control, the computers passing the data do not know or care about the content of the data. It is just a bunch of packets being sent from one end to another. Your so called paid prioritization making so called "telesurgery" a higher priority than somebody watching Netflix will in fact not be treated any differently. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Not sure what you're saying here. A "fast lane" from and to where?
Also I noticed you left out what's probably the biggest issue with this, the political one I mentioned. When all data on the internet isn't equal, anything can be blocked or regulated by your ISP for any reason. Your ISP doesn't like Trump or Republicans? Acccess to Fox News, Breitbart are gone. Or maybe they'll get sly and slow down access, or redirect your traffic to more "acceptable" sites. Or on the other side, maybe the CEO of your ISP is buddies with Trump and decides that "fake news" isn't welcome on his network, so he decides they are blocking CNN or the Washington Post?
But I guess all that (bleep) is just a problem for "low income people"? |
Your post was long, and had valid points, but I cropped. Sorry.
If you want to pass a law that prevents ISPs from blocking or altering legal content or sites that passes through its network, I'm fine with that. Don't think it is necessary but no issues with that philosophically.
My biggest concerns relate mainly to abolishing fast/slow lanes. I think we need them in place, particularly for medical applications but also for applications that demand greater bandwidth. |
its a lot of FUD. It’s totally bogus.
Business purchase a completely different package than home owners. Inexpensive ones run to the curb, running bundled fiber. So whatever you want to purchase, it’s likely you will. It hit any limits. Businesses also pay for it, with costs of $1K a month or more. Usually, if it is mission critical, you have a secondary provider and your routing is through both, running hot.
If it’s critical data, you, as a company, pay for the data to get to the headend.
Although, tbh, surgery over the internet is the stupidest thing you can ever do. Why? Fiber cuts. Your network could simply be cut due to some jerk putting in their own equipment at the colo.
Net Neutrality just meant that website X gets the same preference as website B when you get to the hospital. It the other way around.
Everything you’re concerned about currently doesn’t exist with net neutrality, so worrying that it might is simply silly. |
Yep, its a completely bogus argument by somebody with a lack of understanding about how the internet works. BTW, lets assume the doctor does actually need a high speed connection so do this so called "telesurgery". They are not going to pay their ISP for the same connection as a kid watching Netflix. They are probably going to pay for a dedicated fiber line to their office. Which means that person watching Netflix will have zero effect on his connection. If that doctor doesn't want to get a fiber line, I would question whether he has a legitimate medical license that he can't afford to pay for such an expense. Also the internet outside of the ISP's control is just a series of interconnects that doesn't discern what kind of traffic is being sent. The elimination of net neutrality won't change that and the so called "toll road" argument is BS. Your data will not be treated differently outside of the ISP's control if there is paid prioritization. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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LaVar Ball, Trump has finally drawn a worthy 'rhetorical' opponent
Link
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/lavar-ball-trump-has-finally-drawn-worthy-rhetorical-opponent-ncna822996
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Sadly, not everybody seems to want to be in on the joke. On Monday evening, just as the Trump-Ball folderol was starting to ripen into its fullest flavor, Fox News' Neil Cavuto took to the airwaves to try to scold this glorious quarrel out of existence by taking the president to task for his lack of seriousness, like President Merkin Muffley tone-policing the War Room. Over the course of a segment — titled, ironically, “Common Sense” — Cavuto admonished the president for using his bully pulpit as a “bazooka to respond to a pea-shooter,” and for his pathetic demands for “gratitude bordering on groveling.”
“Last time I checked, you are the president of the United States,” he added. “Why don’t you act like it?”
I don’t know what part of this Cavuto hasn’t figured out: Trump tweeting about how he should have left these UCLA players to rot in China because he received an insufficient amount of gratitude is everything that Trump promised to be from the get-go. Why there’s still anyone hanging around in November 2017, pretending that some other Trump is possible is beyond me. That ship sailed a long time ago, into a vast ocean, blundering in a direction that takes it far away from, say, Puerto Rico.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | The principle philosophy behind net neutrality is that all data be treated equally and requires the elimination of paid prioritization. The terminology is even outdated, as that is not how the internet works today although it sort of did at one point.
Net neutrality would look to end things like peering agreements. We don't want that. If those ended, say goodbye to netflix, youtube, hulu, etc.
The idea has two parts to it. Your access to the internet and its contents AND concepts like paid prioritization. The latter is what most people miss as they focus on the former. |
Me thinks you have a terrible understanding of how the internet works.
Data is already treated equally on the internet. When your data is being passed outside of the ISP's control, the computers passing the data do not know or care about the content of the data. It is just a bunch of packets being sent from one end to another. Your so called paid prioritization making so called "telesurgery" a higher priority than somebody watching Netflix will in fact not be treated any differently. |
Data is not treated equally on the internet. I'll give you a consumer example.
T-Mobile currently offers a promotion that violates net neutrality. That promotion involves offering unlimited Netflix streaming with no hit to your data cap but if you watch a Vimeo video it will.
That is unequal treatment of data because an ISP is treating Netflix data differently than LakersGround.Net data, which will consumer your data cap. |
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governator
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Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | LaVar Ball, Trump has finally drawn a worthy 'rhetorical' opponent
Link
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/lavar-ball-trump-has-finally-drawn-worthy-rhetorical-opponent-ncna822996
| Quote: |
Sadly, not everybody seems to want to be in on the joke. On Monday evening, just as the Trump-Ball folderol was starting to ripen into its fullest flavor, Fox News' Neil Cavuto took to the airwaves to try to scold this glorious quarrel out of existence by taking the president to task for his lack of seriousness, like President Merkin Muffley tone-policing the War Room. Over the course of a segment — titled, ironically, “Common Sense” — Cavuto admonished the president for using his bully pulpit as a “bazooka to respond to a pea-shooter,” and for his pathetic demands for “gratitude bordering on groveling.”
“Last time I checked, you are the president of the United States,” he added. “Why don’t you act like it?”
I don’t know what part of this Cavuto hasn’t figured out: Trump tweeting about how he should have left these UCLA players to rot in China because he received an insufficient amount of gratitude is everything that Trump promised to be from the get-go. Why there’s still anyone hanging around in November 2017, pretending that some other Trump is possible is beyond me. That ship sailed a long time ago, into a vast ocean, blundering in a direction that takes it far away from, say, Puerto Rico.
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Ball Control vs Grab em by the kitty
LaVar gonna give Trump a stroke |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: |
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POLITICS
Trump Defends Roy Moore, Citing Candidate’s Denial of Sexual Misconduct
LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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governator
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lakerfan2012
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | LaVar Ball, Trump has finally drawn a worthy 'rhetorical' opponent
Link
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/lavar-ball-trump-has-finally-drawn-worthy-rhetorical-opponent-ncna822996
| Quote: |
Sadly, not everybody seems to want to be in on the joke. On Monday evening, just as the Trump-Ball folderol was starting to ripen into its fullest flavor, Fox News' Neil Cavuto took to the airwaves to try to scold this glorious quarrel out of existence by taking the president to task for his lack of seriousness, like President Merkin Muffley tone-policing the War Room. Over the course of a segment — titled, ironically, “Common Sense” — Cavuto admonished the president for using his bully pulpit as a “bazooka to respond to a pea-shooter,” and for his pathetic demands for “gratitude bordering on groveling.”
“Last time I checked, you are the president of the United States,” he added. “Why don’t you act like it?”
I don’t know what part of this Cavuto hasn’t figured out: Trump tweeting about how he should have left these UCLA players to rot in China because he received an insufficient amount of gratitude is everything that Trump promised to be from the get-go. Why there’s still anyone hanging around in November 2017, pretending that some other Trump is possible is beyond me. That ship sailed a long time ago, into a vast ocean, blundering in a direction that takes it far away from, say, Puerto Rico.
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Ball Control vs Grab em by the kitty
LaVar gonna give Trump a stroke |
I'm concerned how the president of the United States has the time to engage in a twitter war with LaVar Ball like one of those nba reddit trolls |
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