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Wilt
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
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 Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time.
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¡Hala Madrid!
Last edited by Wilt on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Commentary: Will Donald Trump be re-elected in 2020?
LINK
| Quote: |
Few stories are more irresistible than those that take on the conventional wisdom and come from an unexpected source. Doug Sosnik, a smart operative in Bill Clinton's White House, provided both with a column this month suggesting that Donald Trump is well-positioned for re-election.
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_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time. |
Ted Cruz would have been worse than Trump. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Would a guy like Mitt Romney have to run as an Independent in 2020 to get on the ballot? I think Trump will still win a Republican Primary. |
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EldenCampbell
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Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 939
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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61% of Republicans approving of the direction of a country under the first term of a Republican President is *extremely* low. Of course it's going to be the highest in a decade, we had a Democratic President for eight years.
I'm fairly confident that Trump will either not finish his term, or will not run for re-election. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time. |
...as a Presidential candidate
citizens of America have totally lost their country
dare.. Get an insider at a politician only event to ask Politicians
"Who are your constituents?"
do they name humans/citizens/families
or
GIGANTIC Corporations? That OWN our political system
Children need to be taught logic classes in school every single year.. or at least be taught how to NEVER trust something at face value etc..
Our educational system is the huge failure .. Producing gullible/ignorant/myopic citizens <<BY design.. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time. |
The system is broken. But how can you fix the system and do it peacefully? |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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We've been a veiled Plutocracy for some time. The government is controlled by the chosen few, Waltons, Koch, Mars and like. Trump's no where near the top of the chain but he's assuring their dominance.
Bernie said it, you have to take money out of politics. Politicians are tools of the rich. I'd like to see the off shore accounts of most of our elected officials.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time. |
The system is broken. But how can you fix the system and do it peacefully? |
The first thing is vote. Every election matters. Once you have driven out the racist party, then you have to start reforming the party in power from within.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: |
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This is the insider who seems to have mostly accurate sources:
| Quote: | Claude TaylorVerified account @TrueFactsStated
Source. “Sater has been a cooperating witness against Trump, Don Jr and Kushner since last summer. Mueller has them cold on money laundering”. |
He's referring to Felix Sater, the shady Russian-American mobbed up money-launder and long-time friend/biz partner of Trump in shady real estate deals. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Also in today's news: NYT: Bannon Is Subpoenaed in Mueller’s Russia Investigation
| Quote: | Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s former chief strategist, was subpoenaed last week by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, to testify before a grand jury as part of the investigation into possible links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.
The move marked the first time Mr. Mueller is known to have used a grand jury subpoena to seek information from a member of Mr. Trump’s inner circle. The special counsel’s office has used subpoenas before to seek information on Mr. Trump’s associates and their possible ties to Russia or other foreign governments.
The subpoena could be a negotiating tactic. Mr. Mueller is likely to allow Mr. Bannon to forgo the grand jury appearance if he agrees to instead be questioned by investigators in the less formal setting of the special counsel’s offices about ties between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia and about the president’s conduct in office, according to the person, who would not be named discussing the case. But it was not clear why Mr. Mueller treated Mr. Bannon differently than the dozen administration officials who were interviewed in the final months of last year and were never served with a subpoena.
The subpoena is a sign that Bannon is not personally the focus of the investigation. Justice Department rules allow prosecutors to subpoena to the targets of investigations only in rare circumstances. |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | This is the insider who seems to have mostly accurate sources:
| Quote: | Claude TaylorVerified account @TrueFactsStated
Source. “Sater has been a cooperating witness against Trump, Don Jr and Kushner since last summer. Mueller has them cold on money laundering”. |
He's referring to Felix Sater, the shady Russian-American mobbed up money-launder and long-time friend/biz partner of Trump in shady real estate deals. |
Wonder how the GOP will spin this? If Trump gets caught for money laundering will they then say Mueller over stepped his boundaries and claim they were right all along about there NOT being "collusion"? |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Commentary: Will Donald Trump be re-elected in 2020?
LINK
| Quote: |
Few stories are more irresistible than those that take on the conventional wisdom and come from an unexpected source. Doug Sosnik, a smart operative in Bill Clinton's White House, provided both with a column this month suggesting that Donald Trump is well-positioned for re-election.
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Mitt Romney may be our country's best hope. If he runs as an independent in 2020 he could split the conservative vote.
Next President will probably be decided by who wins Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Turnout in the cities vs rural areas.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Commentary: Will Donald Trump be re-elected in 2020?
LINK
| Quote: |
Few stories are more irresistible than those that take on the conventional wisdom and come from an unexpected source. Doug Sosnik, a smart operative in Bill Clinton's White House, provided both with a column this month suggesting that Donald Trump is well-positioned for re-election.
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Mitt Romney may be our country's best hope. If he runs as an independent in 2020 he could split the conservative vote.
Next President will probably be decided by who wins Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Turnout in the cities vs rural areas. |
Biden 2020? |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: |
Biden 2020? |
He should definitely run. And if he doesn't get the party nomination, I'm assuming a fantastic candidate beats him.
I think the party should incorporate into their platform:
- Legalizing marijuana federally
- Voting Day National Day Off
- $15 minimum Wage
- Outlaw Gerrymandering
We don't need a charismatic candidate like Barack if we make the election about common sense issues.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | This is the insider who seems to have mostly accurate sources:
| Quote: | Claude TaylorVerified account @TrueFactsStated
Source. “Sater has been a cooperating witness against Trump, Don Jr and Kushner since last summer. Mueller has them cold on money laundering”. |
He's referring to Felix Sater, the shady Russian-American mobbed up money-launder and long-time friend/biz partner of Trump in shady real estate deals. |
Wonder how the GOP will spin this? If Trump gets caught for money laundering will they then say Mueller over stepped his boundaries and claim they were right all along about there NOT being "collusion"? |
Probably, although this actually demonstrates how Putin had both the carrot and the stick.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | This is the insider who seems to have mostly accurate sources:
| Quote: | Claude TaylorVerified account @TrueFactsStated
Source. “Sater has been a cooperating witness against Trump, Don Jr and Kushner since last summer. Mueller has them cold on money laundering”. |
He's referring to Felix Sater, the shady Russian-American mobbed up money-launder and long-time friend/biz partner of Trump in shady real estate deals. |
An easy witness for the Trumps to impeach . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Commentary: Will Donald Trump be re-elected in 2020?
LINK
| Quote: |
Few stories are more irresistible than those that take on the conventional wisdom and come from an unexpected source. Doug Sosnik, a smart operative in Bill Clinton's White House, provided both with a column this month suggesting that Donald Trump is well-positioned for re-election.
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Mitt Romney may be our country's best hope. If he runs as an independent in 2020 he could split the conservative vote.
Next President will probably be decided by who wins Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Turnout in the cities vs rural areas. |
Biden 2020? |
Biden is not the same man anymore. When his son died it took a lot out of him  |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: |
Biden 2020? |
He should definitely run. And if he doesn't get the party nomination, I'm assuming a fantastic candidate beats him.
I think the party should incorporate into their platform:
- Legalizing marijuana federally
- Voting Day National Day Off
- $15 minimum Wage
- Outlaw Gerrymandering
We don't need a charismatic candidate like Barack if we make the election about common sense issues. |
Unfortunately, those aren't common sense for everybody.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| At the minimum, I'd like to see Bannon roll on Kushner. Would be great to see both he and Ivanka behind bars. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67716
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Commentary: Will Donald Trump be re-elected in 2020?
LINK
| Quote: |
Few stories are more irresistible than those that take on the conventional wisdom and come from an unexpected source. Doug Sosnik, a smart operative in Bill Clinton's White House, provided both with a column this month suggesting that Donald Trump is well-positioned for re-election.
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Mitt Romney may be our country's best hope. If he runs as an independent in 2020 he could split the conservative vote.
Next President will probably be decided by who wins Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Turnout in the cities vs rural areas. |
HOW SOON WE FORGET
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lucky_Shot
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5160
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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I changed my mind I hope Oprah doesn't run. The way she talks is too extreme for me. Very different kind of speech compared to "I have a dream"
https://youtu.be/-1sWsn1Q8lk
I think its still anyone's game: Warren Sanders Biden Kamala are the front runners
i don't know much about Harris but Warren/Sanders/Biden gets my vote
Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31924
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Cory Booker laid into the Sec. of Homeland Security today.
www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/16/cory-booker-admonishes-kirstjen-nielsen.cnn |
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Wilt
LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13731
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Cory Booker laid into the Sec. of Homeland Security today.
www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/16/cory-booker-admonishes-kirstjen-nielsen.cnn |
Her smirk and eyerolling were despicable.
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¡Hala Madrid! |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Trump is not the problem, Republicans are not the problem. The problem is our society and political culture that can produce someone like Trump and a party like the GOP in the 21st century. 46% of the electorate in 2016 and close to 40% of the public approve of this today. If Trump didn't appear in 2015, someone else would have appeared with the same ugly message eventually, and one can argue that most of the GOP candidates in 2016 were less bombastic and more articulate versions of Trump. That's what worries me, especially since I'm an immigrant and have noticed how people I thought were decent neighbors suddenly were free to express who they really were the entire time. |
The system is broken. But how can you fix the system and do it peacefully? |
The first thing is vote. Every election matters. Once you have driven out the racist party, then you have to start reforming the party in power from within. |
It's not that easy because the voting system and democracy of this country is deeply flawed. From gerry mandering to campaign donations. It's hard to get actual good non-corrupt individuals into office that can make positive change happen. |
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