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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Trump is racist. It's a fact. I could bombard Ujah with 10 sources easily showing Trump's racism in separate events. The fact that Ujah argues otherwise is laughable.
Also the GOP is less diverse than the Dems. Like my last point, I could bury you in sources proving it. The only reason why I haven't already is because I know Ujah is smart enough to be trolling us.

If you want to defend Trump there are better arguments to make. As opposed to arguing reality isn't reality.
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Trump is racist. It's a fact. I could bombard Ujah with 10 sources easily showing Trump's racism in separate events. The fact that Ujah argues otherwise is laughable.
Also the GOP is less diverse than the Dems. Like my last point, I could bury you in sources proving it. The only reason why I haven't already is because I know you are smart enough to be trolling us.

If you want to defend Trump there are better arguments to make. As opposed to arguing reality isn't reality.


There's not really, though. That is Trump-ism, creating an alternate reality. They have done quite well in this regard, I must admit.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Trump is racist. It's a fact. I could bombard Ujah with 10 sources easily showing Trump's racism in separate events. The fact that Ujah argues otherwise is laughable.
Also the GOP is less diverse than the Dems. Like my last point, I could bury you in sources proving it. The only reason why I haven't already is because I Ujah is smart enough to be trolling us.

If you want to defend Trump there are better arguments to make. As opposed to arguing reality isn't reality.


There's not really, though. That is Trump-ism, creating an alternate reality. They have done quite well in this regard, I must admit.


And that is a failure in the Democratic Party.
When I see a Trumper trying to appeal to a Bernie Bro (Ujah -> CC) some of the blame has to go to the Democratic Party.

There is statistical evidence proving the Affordable Care Act helped our country. There is statistical evidence showing Trump A) is ignorant of the status of our economy and the gains made between 2008 and 2016 and B) doesn't know lowering taxes right now is bad for our economy. It's killing our consumer class and contributing to inflation.
Dems haven't made the arguments well enough. It's why I think a further left direction is needed by the Dems right now. Bernie gets credit for the direction/ideals. But he stayed in the primary longer than Hillary v. Barack. And as a self-identifying progressive. He hurt our country (by doing so).
Even if you're progessive and disagree. Voting Trumpism out of office has to be the biggest priority. By a loooooong shot.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Looking at the past conservative (economic) regimes in our country. This has been proven true.
Quote:
Cutting taxes during heated economic growth results in inflation, a weakened dollar, a growth in trade deficits, and when coupled with a quick surge in government deficits, a tightened money supply and rising interest rates, which makes it harder for businesses that are not flush with cash to grow to meet rising demand.

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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..
5:50 AM · Jul 9, 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/884016887692234753

Cannot make this (bleep) up
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ani007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Quote:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..
5:50 AM · Jul 9, 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/884016887692234753

Cannot make this (bleep) up


yeah that one was a real humdinger. also, i asked him he said no, and then i asked one more time, and he said no again. case closed.

or comey brennan clapper partisan hacks worse than russia. or today i heard the WH deputy press secretary said dems and media have done way worse than russia in regards to sowing chaos or something

or Russia if you're listening i hope you got the stolen files. on national tv.

ugh.

its hard to find a smoking gun while bullets are whizzing by you so fast. i fired comey to ease up on russia invest.

jesus mary and joseph

the kids in parkland sure do give me hope. articulate and passionate and speaking so powerfully. very impressive young adults.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).


I’m sorry for saying I’d park my broken cars all over your neighborhood RF. That wasn’t nice of me and I’ll try not to do it anymore. (Sipping a Coors Light in my driveway).
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).

He's clearly a racist and an (bleep).
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).

He's clearly a racist and an (bleep).


In a world where yoga and quinoa are also considered racist, I suppose. I just don’t agree.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Trump is racist. It's a fact. I could bombard Ujah with 10 sources easily showing Trump's racism in separate events. The fact that Ujah argues otherwise is laughable.
Also the GOP is less diverse than the Dems. Like my last point, I could bury you in sources proving it. The only reason why I haven't already is because I Ujah is smart enough to be trolling us.

If you want to defend Trump there are better arguments to make. As opposed to arguing reality isn't reality.


There's not really, though. That is Trump-ism, creating an alternate reality. They have done quite well in this regard, I must admit.


And that is a failure in the Democratic Party.
When I see a Trumper trying to appeal to a Bernie Bro (Ujah -> CC) some of the blame has to go to the Democratic Party.

There is statistical evidence proving the Affordable Care Act helped our country. There is statistical evidence showing Trump A) is ignorant of the status of our economy and the gains made between 2008 and 2016 and B) doesn't know lowering taxes right now is bad for our economy. It's killing our consumer class and contributing to inflation.
Dems haven't made the arguments well enough. It's why I think a further left direction is needed by the Dems right now. Bernie gets credit for the direction/ideals. But he stayed in the primary longer than Hillary v. Barack. And as a self-identifying progressive. He hurt our country (by doing so).
Even if you're progessive and disagree. Voting Trumpism out of office has to be the biggest priority. By a loooooong shot.
but its not. voting trumpism out of the office is not the biggest priority you know why? this is not a dictatorship. what happens if trump quit tonight? would we be safe? HECK NO. you know why? because pence aka a real politician is up next. in addition to the republicans have that control in congress. we're not safe as long as they are in power. anyone saying any different is either a giant corporation or a liar. This is the reason why a bernie type of candidate with his following and message should not get out of the race. this is not normal times. so you can't expect normal situations to occur.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:03 am    Post subject:

To paraphrase Trump, he could lynch someone on Fifth Avenue and some people would still deny he's a racist.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).

He's clearly a racist and an (bleep).


In a world where yoga and quinoa are also considered racist, I suppose. I just don’t agree.

Put aside the argument of yoga/quinoa being racist by some people. You don't think Trump is racist when he pushed for Obama's birth certificate, calling white supremacists good people, Central Park 5 case, housing discrimination against blacks (I'm sure there's other examples)?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
To paraphrase Trump, he could lynch someone on Fifth Avenue and some people would still deny he's a racist.


Well, that may be true, but that says more about those people than Trump. There's a certain, disturbing level of tribalism on both sides that prevents them from saying I support this person but I don't like this thing they did (or said). So back to the question on whether Trump is a racist and I think there are 2 schools of thought here.

I think there is the person who is indifferent to race and then there is the person who holds contempt for a person people based purely on the color of their skin.

IMO, Trump is the former. I just don't think he particularly cares about race at all, and cares only for whomever it is that he believes gives him the best chance at success. One example I'll give is during (bleep)-hole-gate, he said he would prefer immigrants from countries like Norway and Korea. Why would a racist want immigrants from Korea? What he is really saying (because he sucks at communicating) is that he prefers an immigrant group that consists of the people most likely to deliver the highest possible return on investment.

I just think Trump is too much of a greedy (bleep) to be a classical racist.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).

He's clearly a racist and an (bleep).


In a world where yoga and quinoa are also considered racist, I suppose. I just don’t agree.

Put aside the argument of yoga/quinoa being racist by some people. You don't think Trump is racist when he pushed for Obama's birth certificate, calling white supremacists good people, Central Park 5 case, housing discrimination against blacks (I'm sure there's other examples)?


I don't think pushing for Obama's birth certificate means he is a racist, no. I think it makes him a (bleep) with the motive possibly driven by race, but not definitively so. I can't say I recall a time when Trump said white supremacists are good. I do remember Charlottesville where I think he initially pandered to both sides ("fine people on both sides") but eventually said they were bad. I don't think Central Park 5 was definitively racism, no. It's possible it was, but, it's also possible it wasn't.

I think all of these examples are more examples of Trump failing to control his mouth. Rushing to judgment. Communicating poorly (understatement of the year?)

By the way, don't get me wrong. Again, I didn't vote for this turd, agree with some of his policies, disagree with many, and immensely dislike his leadership style. But I do think he is a racist in the classical sense? No. But if we use this softer definition that would include Bill Maher, yoga, and quinoa? Ok, then I suppose.

And, do I think he is indifferent to issues that involve race? Yes. But there's a difference for me.


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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject:

Trump's administration has implemented literally hundreds of policies that have the effect of harming people of color. It could be a giant coincidence, but taken together with his past actions and statements lashing out at people of color, the most plausible explanation is that a person who makes racist statements, attacks people of color, and implements racist policies, is probably racist.

This is simple Logic 101. People who refuse to see that 2 + 2 = 4 are beyond arguing with.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Trump is racist. It's a fact. I could bombard Ujah with 10 sources easily showing Trump's racism in separate events. The fact that Ujah argues otherwise is laughable.
Also the GOP is less diverse than the Dems. Like my last point, I could bury you in sources proving it. The only reason why I haven't already is because I Ujah is smart enough to be trolling us.

If you want to defend Trump there are better arguments to make. As opposed to arguing reality isn't reality.


There's not really, though. That is Trump-ism, creating an alternate reality. They have done quite well in this regard, I must admit.


And that is a failure in the Democratic Party.
When I see a Trumper trying to appeal to a Bernie Bro (Ujah -> CC) some of the blame has to go to the Democratic Party.

There is statistical evidence proving the Affordable Care Act helped our country. There is statistical evidence showing Trump A) is ignorant of the status of our economy and the gains made between 2008 and 2016 and B) doesn't know lowering taxes right now is bad for our economy. It's killing our consumer class and contributing to inflation.
Dems haven't made the arguments well enough. It's why I think a further left direction is needed by the Dems right now. Bernie gets credit for the direction/ideals. But he stayed in the primary longer than Hillary v. Barack. And as a self-identifying progressive. He hurt our country (by doing so).
Even if you're progessive and disagree. Voting Trumpism out of office has to be the biggest priority. By a loooooong shot.
but its not. voting trumpism out of the office is not the biggest priority you know why? this is not a dictatorship. what happens if trump quit tonight? would we be safe? HECK NO. you know why? because pence aka a real politician is up next. in addition to the republicans have that control in congress. we're not safe as long as they are in power. anyone saying any different is either a giant corporation or a liar. This is the reason why a bernie type of candidate with his following and message should not get out of the race. this is not normal times. so you can't expect normal situations to occur.


I'm agreeing with you. We need to take back the house ASAP. And then the Senate and Presidency. That's what I mean by voting Trumpism out. Heck at all levels of government, liberals have to make a push. Everyone should be voting left, even if we don't 100% agree with the candidate. Because the alternatives are worse 99% of the time. Even the most "moderate" of conservatives, aren't that moderate nowadays. Dems need better unity and better messaging than we saw in 2016.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.


I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).

He's clearly a racist and an (bleep).


In a world where yoga and quinoa are also considered racist, I suppose. I just don’t agree.

Put aside the argument of yoga/quinoa being racist by some people. You don't think Trump is racist when he pushed for Obama's birth certificate, calling white supremacists good people, Central Park 5 case, housing discrimination against blacks (I'm sure there's other examples)?


None of us know what thoughts and emotions Trump may have regarding non-white commoners, though the thought of truly knowing is quite frightening. We can only judge by his and his administration's impulses, actions and words. Considering that though even he is likely somewhat guarded, there is much to support the racist theory.

His choice of Sessions, quite the overt racist at one point, and though he has learned to turn down the racist rhetoric, "saying" the right thing, is working with Trump to undo all that Obama did to mitigate low level drug crimes and punishment. Which ethnicities do you think are impacted here? The lack of environmental oversight tends to affect inner cities the most. Which ethnicities do you think are impacted here? Much, if not all, of the immigration issue, now targeting families of legal immigrants, appears to be centered around the fear of dilution of the dominant white culture. There are his comments about: Mexican rapists and murderers; the bias of a "Mexican" (actually an American) judge; Haitians having AIDS; Nigerians living in huts; that we need fewer Haitians and Africans and more Norwegians.

We can't forget his banning ALL Muslims, the whole birth certificate deal, that he often picks a fights--

Quote:
Maher then listed recited his list: Colin Kaepernick, LaVar Ball, Barack Obama, Eric Holder, the war widow from the failed raid in Niger, the war widow’s congresswoman, the Central Park Five, Steph Curry, the UCLA basketball players arrested in China, Whoopi Goldberg, April Ryan, the cast of Hamilton, the NFL, the city of Atlanta, Chicago, Nigeria, Haiti “and the entire continent of Africa.”


--with people of color; but most of all, his unforgivable response to the people of Puerto Rico (Americans), compared to the response to Texas--which should be considered a crime against humanity.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

I don't think pushing for Obama's birth certificate means he is a racist, no. I think it makes him a (bleep) with the motive possibly driven by race, but not definitively so.


Can you explain Birtherism as not racist, without sounding ridiculous? I genuinely think that's impossible. It's just 1 big coincidence, the only black President is the only person to have his birth placed questioned, EVEN AFTER RELEASING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
ringfinger wrote:
I don't think Central Park 5 was definitively racism, no. It's possible it was, but, it's also possible it wasn't.


Maybe you're just not informed about the details of the Central Park 5? Trump called for the imprisonment and death of 5 black and latino young men even when DNA evidence proved their innocence.

ringfinger wrote:

I think all of these examples are more examples of Trump failing to control his mouth. Rushing to judgment. Communicating poorly (understatement of the year?)


I could say the same thing about the racist grandpa at Thanksgiving dinner.
The extremely high standard to prove racism that you are expecting would probably push all racism into a class of "miscommunication". Outside of genocide, I don't know if anybody could be considered racist with your standard.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Trump's administration has implemented literally hundreds of policies that have the effect of harming people of color. It could be a giant coincidence, but taken together with his past actions and statements lashing out at people of color, the most plausible explanation is that a person who makes racist statements, attacks people of color, and implements racist policies, is probably racist.

This is simple Logic 101. People who refuse to see that 2 + 2 = 4 are beyond arguing with.


There's no doubt he has implemented policies that have a negative effect on people of color. I'm not going to dispute that. But that doesn't mean they were racially motivated.

I asked earlier -- if he was a racist by the classical definition, why would he openly say he wants immigrants from any non-white countries? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you're a gay hating homophobe, you're not going to say well, I like the gays in Colorado, they're cool with me.

We're at a point where if you're opposed to forcing that baker to make a cake for a gay wedding then that makes you a homophobe when there's a simple alternative explanation which is that perhaps you hold some or many libertarian views. (Granting that people who feel that way may ALSO be homophobic).

Anyway, like I said, I think we have a single term that has at least 2, if not more, disparate definitions. There are definitions that include Bill freaking Maher. I can't get on board with that.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject:

I posted this in the gun thread. But I think it is relevant in this discussion as well.
Quote:
Trump responses to murder by Race/Religion of murderer (or alleged murderers)

Black and Hispanic (Central Park 5): "Let our politicians give back our police department's power to keep us safe. Unshackle them from the constant chant of 'police brutality' "

Muslim (SB shooting): "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

Hispanic (drunk driver kills Colts' Jackson): "So disgraceful that a person illegally in our country killed @Colts linebacker Edwin Jackson. This is just one of many such preventable tragedies. We must get the Dems to get tough on the Border, and with illegal immigration, FAST!"

White (58 killed, 500+ injured in Las Vegas shooting):“Look, we have a tragedy. What happened is, in many ways, a miracle. The police department, they’ve done such an incredible job."
“There is currently an open and ongoing law enforcement investigation. A motive is yet to be determined. And it would be premature for us to discuss policy when we don't fully know all the facts, or what took place last night.”

White supremacist (17 dead, multiple injured; community is 84% white): "My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school."

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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:

I don't think pushing for Obama's birth certificate means he is a racist, no. I think it makes him a (bleep) with the motive possibly driven by race, but not definitively so.


Can you explain Birtherism as not racist, without sounding ridiculous? I genuinely think that's impossible. It's just 1 big coincidence, the only black President is the only person to have his birth placed questioned, EVEN AFTER RELEASING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.


Yes. Because Trump is a (bleep).

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
I don't think Central Park 5 was definitively racism, no. It's possible it was, but, it's also possible it wasn't.


Maybe you're just not informed about the details of the Central Park 5? Trump called for the imprisonment and death of 5 black and latino young men even when DNA evidence proved their innocence.


It's possible my recollection of that incident is off. I remember him calling for the imprisonment and death of those young men BEFORE the DNA evidence proved their innocence.

If he did that AFTER, then, I cannot think of a reasonable explanation other than racial motivation for sure.[/quote][/quote]

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:

I think all of these examples are more examples of Trump failing to control his mouth. Rushing to judgment. Communicating poorly (understatement of the year?)


I could say the same thing about the racist grandpa at Thanksgiving dinner.
The extremely high standard to prove racism that you are expecting would probably push all racism into a class of "miscommunication". Outside of genocide, I don't know if anybody could be considered racist with your standard.


Ok, but in the extremely low standard of the definition, virtually everybody would be considered racist. As I mentioned in other posts, Bill Maher has been called a racist, as has yoga, quinoa, and peanut butter & jelly sandwiches.

I think there's a gray spot in the middle there, that the left is calling an -ist or -phobe. And I think it is a dangerous tactic from a political perspective.

I do like your analogy of the "racist" grandpa because I've seen that first hand but I will tell you there are, again, two forms IMO. There's "ignorant" grandpa and then there is "racist" grandpa.

The ignorant grandpa just doesn't give a (bleep) about the particular plights of various groups and cares only about his own concerns. The racist grandpa cares very much about the particular plights of various groups and is driven by maintaining or exacerbating those plights even at the expense of his own well being.


Last edited by ringfinger on Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
To paraphrase Trump, he could lynch someone on Fifth Avenue and some people would still deny he's a racist.


Well, that may be true, but that says more about those people than Trump. There's a certain, disturbing level of tribalism on both sides that prevents them from saying I support this person but I don't like this thing they did (or said). So back to the question on whether Trump is a racist and I think there are 2 schools of thought here.

I think there is the person who is indifferent to race and then there is the person who holds contempt for a person people based purely on the color of their skin.

IMO, Trump is the former. I just don't think he particularly cares about race at all, and cares only for whomever it is that he believes gives him the best chance at success. One example I'll give is during (bleep)-hole-gate, he said he would prefer immigrants from countries like Norway and Korea. Why would a racist want immigrants from Korea? What he is really saying (because he sucks at communicating) is that he prefers an immigrant group that consists of the people most likely to deliver the highest possible return on investment.

I just think Trump is too much of a greedy (bleep) to be a classical racist.


His preference for ROI are human lives

His preferences lead to discrimination with his goals and values

Bet Puerto Rico is a (bleep) to him
Do you think that affects how he sees all the people of Puerto Rico?
He convicted 5 black men of brutal rape. They weren't guilty so he doubled down on the hate
His Butler for 17-18 years was a crazed racist


Trump is a weird dude to me
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:

I don't think pushing for Obama's birth certificate means he is a racist, no. I think it makes him a (bleep) with the motive possibly driven by race, but not definitively so.


Can you explain Birtherism as not racist, without sounding ridiculous? I genuinely think that's impossible. It's just 1 big coincidence, the only black President is the only person to have his birth placed questioned, EVEN AFTER RELEASING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.


Yes. Because Trump is a (bleep).


This isn't a good enough argument to prove this obviously racially discriminatory act isn't racist.

Trump stays firm in his beliefs with the Central Park case, even to this day. He didn't repeat his request for imprisonment and death for the suspects after the DNA evidence. But he has made it clear, he stands by his comments.
Please take a look at my post showing how Trump's responses vary based on the race/religion of the murderer/suspected murderers.

The ignorant vs racist comment you made is interesting and has some validity in certain cases.

But I don't call out racist behavior for political points. I don't think most Dems do for that reason. They do it for the same reason why the #MeToo movement started. Wrong is wrong. And it shouldn't be kept under wraps or ignored.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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