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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

Also what qualifications does sleepy Ben Carson have for being head of Housing and Urban Development?

Trump hired him in that position because he's black and the title has Urban in it. The man is a surgeon, but was placed in a role that has no relation to his prerequisites. Trump sees a black man. Not a surgeon.

Trump's cabinet is dominated by white males which is in no way representative to the demographics of our country. And he has chosen white judges at the highest rate in decades.

Not to mention how he treated the Hispanic judge (born in America).

Honestly I could fill this whole page with racially discriminatory words and actions from Trump. And to assume it is a coincidence is either naive or offensive.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

Anyone who cannot see the pure racism in birtherism


Lol

He was just protecting America, Right?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Go ahead and laugh but I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much. Among senior staff of elected officials (governors, senators) there is more diversity within the Republican Party.

I removed the laugh emojis from 2 of those posts. That was obnoxious. I'm sorry.
But, can you put yourself in my shoes? From my perspective, when a Trump supporter pretends Trump isn't racist (or the GOP is more diverse). I think they are A) ignoring reality and trying to rile me up for laughs or B) uninformed.
Trump has treated rich, straight, cis-gender, white males better than anybody else. My a humongous margin. In terms of elected officials, Republic Convention attendees, and GOP voters the party is overwhelmingly white...and male. You do read political news, right? I mean, you've quoted some articles.

J
I’m not a Trump supporter but I don’t think he’s a racist. He’s just a (bleep).


Hop in to your googlemobile and look up trump housing discrimination. That was 30 years ago and understand that he hasn't changed in any way that could be considered for the better. If you want to go back further you will find that it's generational.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/opinions/trump-has-gone-from-dog-whistle-bigotry-to-megaphone-prejudice-opinion-dantonio/index.html
Quote:
In his book about Trump's years as a casino operator in Atlantic City, former Trump executive John R. O'Donnell wrote of how his boss made bigoted statements about African-Americans and Jews. O'Donnell quoted Trump saying:
"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes... Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else ... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks."


This was back in '91. I just stumbled upon the quote now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!



His next moving goal post will be defining collusion. He'll say to collude, we would have to know we were working with Russians. And we didn't. I'm calling it now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

Russia didn't interfere with the election

Okay, Russia interfered but we didn't know about it

Okay we knew Russia interfered but we didn't help.

Fine. Russia interfered and we helped but it helped us win so come on it's cool right?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:

I don't think pushing for Obama's birth certificate means he is a racist, no. I think it makes him a (bleep) with the motive possibly driven by race, but not definitively so.


Can you explain Birtherism as not racist, without sounding ridiculous? I genuinely think that's impossible. It's just 1 big coincidence, the only black President is the only person to have his birth placed questioned, EVEN AFTER RELEASING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.


Yes. Because Trump is a (bleep).


This isn't a good enough argument to prove this obviously racially discriminatory act isn't racist.

Trump stays firm in his beliefs with the Central Park case, even to this day. He didn't repeat his request for imprisonment and death for the suspects after the DNA evidence. But he has made it clear, he stands by his comments.
Please take a look at my post showing how Trump's responses vary based on the race/religion of the murderer/suspected murderers.

The ignorant vs racist comment you made is interesting and has some validity in certain cases.

But I don't call out racial behavior for political points. I don't think most Dems do for that reason. They do it the same reason why the #MeToo movement started. Wrong is wrong. And it shouldn't be kept under wraps or ignored.


Well, I'm not arguing that because he is a (bleep) in the case of birtherism, that that means it proves he isn't racist. I'm arguing that it doesn't prove that he is one because Trump is also a (bleep). It's not about proving that someone isn't racist, I don't even think that is a thing, it's more about whether or not a person is a racist. I guess I look at it sort of like law. You need not prove that someone is innocent, you need only to prove they are guilty.

I saw the quotes. I just think there are other factors at play and they don't necessarily prove that he is a racist. I think what ends up happening in a lot of cases, is that he is opposed to things that are of critical importance to particular minority groups. And because of that, it gets conflated as being entirely or primarily motivated by white supremacist notions when it is more likely IMO, that he is just opposed to those particular issues. For instance, I think that it is possible to be opposed to, and take steps to prevent, things like illegal immigration (and illegal immigrants) while also not being a racist. I recognize I'm in the minority on that belief, but it's still my belief nonetheless.

That quote exercise is starting with a premise, and trying to prove the premise. Which is fine I guess, but you can do that with almost any one, even someone like Obama. For example, he gave an official statement about Trayvon Martin but said nothing about Kelly Thomas. You can use pull quotes from him saying he was not in favor of gay marriage. What does this mean? That he is racist and anti-gay and his shift in stance on the latter was purely "coincidental"? I think it's natural that he, like any other person be more sensitive to certain issues, particularly ones that align with his personal interests.

(BTW, I did see your Ben Carson mention there and I would argue that a) Trump has put people of all colors and genders with insufficient requirements in a number of roles and that b) a true racist would never consider such a thing. "Racist" grandpa isn't going to appoint a person of color to any significant position within his company, he's going to flat out refuse to hire him purely because of his skin color.)

Ultimately, I think he just doesn't really care about a lot of the identity politics stuff and only cares about the bottom line.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

I wonder the education level, geographical location, ethnicity of Trump supporters? Is there a way to lump and gather?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject:

^^ Ringfinger. Is this racist or not? I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 through every incident and you can let me know.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/opinions/trump-has-gone-from-dog-whistle-bigotry-to-megaphone-prejudice-opinion-dantonio/index.html

Quote:
In his book about Trump's years as a casino operator in Atlantic City, former Trump executive John R. O'Donnell wrote of how his boss made bigoted statements about African-Americans and Jews. O'Donnell quoted Trump saying:
"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes... Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else ... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks."



This was back in '91. I just stumbled upon the quote now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

Quote:
DEC.23, 2017
Haitian immigrants and Nigerians. The New York Times reports in an Oval Office meeting in June, Trump said Haitian immigrants “all have AIDS” and Nigerians would never “go back to their huts.”


Last time I'll bring it up. But this is extremely racist.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
^^ Ringfinger. Is this racist or not? I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 through every incident and you can let me know.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/opinions/trump-has-gone-from-dog-whistle-bigotry-to-megaphone-prejudice-opinion-dantonio/index.html

Quote:
In his book about Trump's years as a casino operator in Atlantic City, former Trump executive John R. O'Donnell wrote of how his boss made bigoted statements about African-Americans and Jews. O'Donnell quoted Trump saying:
"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes... Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else ... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks."



This was back in '91. I just stumbled upon the quote now.


If there is a recording of Trump saying this then yes, it is racist. But if not, there is a curious factor that the author of the book is a nobody who was a disgruntled employee that did not get the promotion he felt he deserved and quit. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen of course, but why would i believe this man unless I wanted to?

Let’s just move on. For now, I am just of the belief that the only color Trump cares about is the color green. I don’t think he cares about any of the challenges my people face, unless, he can benefit from alleviating those challenges. That makes him a (bleep) but not necessarily a racist.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject:

Is water wet, is fat meat greasy, is Trump a racist?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Is water wet, is fat meat greasy, is Trump a racist?

Well, just because water is liquid doesn't necessarily mean it's wet, you have to prove that it's not dry, not the other way around. It could be that the water is just ignorance to being a liquid
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Is water wet, is fat meat greasy, is Trump a racist?

Well, just because water is liquid doesn't necessarily mean it's wet, you have to prove that it's not dry, not the other way around. It could be that the water is just ignorance to being a liquid


Not a liquid. Not a liquid. You're the liquid!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

Calls the Men's mothers who take a knee before their NFL game (bleep)..

As president he called their mothers (bleep)

Can you in 15 words or less tell me
What race was protesting
What were they protesting

Skinheads run people over with a car and there are
Good people on both sides
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Quote:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!



His next moving goal post will be defining collusion. He'll say to collude, we would have to know we were working with Russians. And we didn't. I'm calling it now.


So enact the sanctions
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
^^ Ringfinger. Is this racist or not? I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 through every incident and you can let me know.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/opinions/trump-has-gone-from-dog-whistle-bigotry-to-megaphone-prejudice-opinion-dantonio/index.html

Quote:
In his book about Trump's years as a casino operator in Atlantic City, former Trump executive John R. O'Donnell wrote of how his boss made bigoted statements about African-Americans and Jews. O'Donnell quoted Trump saying:
"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes... Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else ... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks."



This was back in '91. I just stumbled upon the quote now.


If there is a recording of Trump saying this then yes, it is racist. But if not, there is a curious factor that the author of the book is a nobody who was a disgruntled employee that did not get the promotion he felt he deserved and quit. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen of course, but why would i believe this man unless I wanted to?

Let’s just move on. For now, I am just of the belief that the only color Trump cares about is the color green. I don’t think he cares about any of the challenges my people face, unless, he can benefit from alleviating those challenges. That makes him a (bleep) but not necessarily a racist.


He is more rude to certain races and especially those who came from countries he doesn't like

So you're saying he is also a disgusting bully but not racist
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Is water wet, is fat meat greasy, is Trump a racist, do fat ladies fart in the dark?

Well, just because water is liquid doesn't necessarily mean it's wet, you have to prove that it's not dry, not the other way around. It could be that the water is just ignorance to being a liquid


Not a liquid. Not a liquid. You're the liquid!

Let me add one that has to be proven. Light a match.
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Last edited by jodeke on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Quote:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!



His next moving goal post will be defining collusion. He'll say to collude, we would have to know we were working with Russians. And we didn't. I'm calling it now.


Been posted before but always applies

A Narcissist's Prayer

That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, that's not a big deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault. <—— we are here

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did...

You deserved it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither.


Thanks. I'll let it go. It's like talking to someone who argues global warming doesn't exist.
Intellectual dishonesty can't be swayed with overwhelming evidence apparently.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject:

What demographic of voters do you guys (and gals) think is most important in 2018-2020 elections?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
What demographic of voters do you guys (and gals) think is most important in 2018-2020 elections?


The bots.

I really think we should have a sticky regarding russian bots.
Hmm how not to make it political

Reason I am asking this is because I have been on youtube and even yahoo iirc and there were bots on there..

They just keep hammering rehashed debunked (bleep) and people keep arguing with them when it is just a bot or even a Russian human sitting at a keyboard hoping to cause problems..

We can post this one for truth and non political
Russian Twitter trolls stoked KKK fears at Mizzou during 2015 protests, report says
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article200011139.html
Quote:

Russian Twitter trolls masterminded a tweet that fueled erroneous reports that the Ku Klux Klan was patrolling Mizzou’s campus during the 2015 student protests at the University of Missouri, a U.S. Air Force officer wrote in an article on “information-age warfare” published in Strategic Studies Quarterly late last year.

The hoax was part of a calculated and government-supported effort by Russia to disrupt democracies, and a warm-up to subsequent efforts to use social media to manipulate public opinion during the 2016 presidential election.

The article, published by Lt. Col. Jarred Prier, direction of operations for the 20th Bomb Squadron, delves into how “social media is a tool for modern information-age warfare.”

The article is taken from a thesis he completed as a master’s degree candidate at the Air University for the School of Advanced Air and Space Studies.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Gates flipped and is now cooperating with the Muller investigation.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither.


How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread?

It's frustrating because I'm not a Trump supporter. I voted (although admittedly begrudgingly so) for Hillary and have maintained that from the beginning. I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term.

Just curious OL -- has there been a single non leftist perspective that someone has brought in to this so-called discussion that you, or others, have either:

i) welcomed, or
ii) considered to be intellectually honest but you simply and amicably disagree philosophically, or
iii) did not call said person an -ist or -phobe term

Because it looks a lot like a Lakers Discussion thread masquerading as a General Basketball Thread.

I'll just state that at no time did I say anything disrespectful to anyone I was debating with. I didn't force my argument, tried to explain my perspective, and at the end, I even said, let's just move on while others continued in pull quoting the internet.

I'm curious as to how many non-leftist views in this nearly 800 page thread have ever NOT been met with a snarky comment or worse? I'm sure there'll be an "honest" explanation for it.

I try to avoid this thread, due to its disturbing echo chamber nature, but for some reason I was unable to resist temptation earlier this morning against my better judgment. I'll make sure to keep out of it as best I can going forward.
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