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ContagiousInspiration
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 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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this birtherism stuff is identical to the japanese internment camps
show me your papers (bleep)
How long had he lived in America yet Trump felt it a good idea to check the negros's papers.. hmm not racist.. nope |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I’ll agree that Trump is not a racist in a blatant, white hood, swasika way. But to deny his racist tendencies, remarks and legislative agenda is intellectually dishonest. It might not meet your personal bar of “racism” RF, however, it is indeed still racist. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither. |
How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread?
It's frustrating because I'm not a Trump supporter. I voted (although admittedly begrudgingly so) for Hillary and have maintained that from the beginning. I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term.
Just curious OL -- has there been a single non leftist perspective that someone has brought in to this so-called discussion that you, or others, have either:
i) welcomed, or
ii) considered to be intellectually honest but you simply and amicably disagree philosophically, or
iii) did not call said person an -ist or -phobe term
Because it looks a lot like a Lakers Discussion thread masquerading as a General Basketball Thread.
I'll just state that at no time did I say anything disrespectful to anyone I was debating with. I didn't force my argument, tried to explain my perspective, and at the end, I even said, let's just move on while others continued in pull quoting the internet.
I'm curious as to how many non-leftist views in this nearly 800 page thread have ever NOT been met with a snarky comment or worse? I'm sure there'll be an "honest" explanation for it.
I try to avoid this thread, due to its disturbing echo chamber nature, but for some reason I was unable to resist temptation earlier this morning against my better judgment. I'll make sure to keep out of it as best I can going forward. |
I feel your frustration. And I am trying to meet you as close to halfway as humanly possible.
But to acknowledge Trump's racism isn't a leftist view. It's reality. And my sole purpose of the last few pages of this thread was to convince Ujah and you of that fact. So we can move on from that fact and discuss solutions.
I'd rather be having a convo about how Trump's ignorance is producing poor economic policy for our country. But we're still stuck at step 1. Why he is anything and everything anti-Obama.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger do all Haitians have AIDS? Do all Haitian immigrants have AIDS? Do you agree?
If not, why don't you agree?
Because you hate making money? Or is it because you aren't racist?
It's not a weakness to admit your political philosophy has evolved. Mine has from this thread.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ani007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| i think Trump would start a eugenics program in a heartbeat |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither. |
How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread?
It's frustrating because I'm not a Trump supporter. I voted (although admittedly begrudgingly so) for Hillary and have maintained that from the beginning. I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term.
Just curious OL -- has there been a single non leftist perspective that someone has brought in to this so-called discussion that you, or others, have either:
i) welcomed, or
ii) considered to be intellectually honest but you simply and amicably disagree philosophically, or
iii) did not call said person an -ist or -phobe term
Because it looks a lot like a Lakers Discussion thread masquerading as a General Basketball Thread.
I'll just state that at no time did I say anything disrespectful to anyone I was debating with. I didn't force my argument, tried to explain my perspective, and at the end, I even said, let's just move on while others continued in pull quoting the internet.
I'm curious as to how many non-leftist views in this nearly 800 page thread have ever NOT been met with a snarky comment or worse? I'm sure there'll be an "honest" explanation for it.
I try to avoid this thread, due to its disturbing echo chamber nature, but for some reason I was unable to resist temptation earlier this morning against my better judgment. I'll make sure to keep out of it as best I can going forward. |
That’s a load of tripe. Snarky comments and disagreements or who the majority in a thread are have no bearing on whether or not something is oan objective, demonstrable fact.
And please don’t lecture us on honesty.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Trump is a Rich Mans racist.. they use socioeconomic theories and tables to decide who to be most racist against |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term.
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I believe this might be part of the problem with this discussion. You, as it appears, want to only apply that narrow definition where feelings of superiority and inferiority of other cultures, ethnicities ("races)," are fundamental to the term.
But a broader definition has come to be where continual prejudices of others, or a general dislike (hatred, too often) of others who are different, especially as evidenced by one's actions, is also racist. You may not feel superior to another "race," but if you have power and you discriminate (or try to) against people of color, isn't this racism?
I believe Trump, among many other horrible characteristics, is a megalomaniac and really doesn't like the commoner--though wash away the glitz and he is nothing more than trailer-trash himself. But his words and his actions do seem to go beyond merely this general sense of superiority, as so many herein have documented.
He just does not seem to care if he offends people of color. Maybe this not textbook racism, but whatever you want to call it, it is offensive, and not becoming of the office he holds--or anyone for that matter.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Birthirism is all you need to know.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Trump is so racist that even Paul Ryan called his comments about Judge Curiel's fitness to oversee the Trump University lawsuit as the "textbook definition of a racist comment." |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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The entirety of Make America Great Again as a political and propaganda strategy is based on fear of a brown planet. Textbook, cartoonish, overt, in your face racism.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | The entirety of Make America Great Again as a political and propaganda strategy is based on fear of a brown planet. Textbook, cartoonish, overt, in your face racism. |
He and his millions of acolytes and enablers in the media and Congress are the latest iteration of American nativism going back at least to the Know Nothings. I would say that they're merely ignorant of history thereby dooming all of us to repeat it, but of course a relatively erudite Islamophobe sociopath like Stephen Miller views racist immigration quotas established in the 1920s as a goal.
Ultimately those useful fools who find expression for their baseless hate and impotence in the scapegoating of those peoples who look different, believe differently, love differently, or think differently are unwittingly and wittingly complicit in the degradation of America. And all at the bidding of mostly conservative rich white men who are more often than not the true source of their suffering and powerlessness. The only difference this time is that their racist populist con man champion rose to the highest post in the land and may have done so by conspiring with a foreign power seeking to turn the U.S.'s putative democratic strength into a potential source of its own demise. Trump, as the racist in chief, can do incredible damage from his perch, but even if ousted, such collusion allows millions of nativist fools in this country to continue to absolve themselves of their own complicity in their own troubles and in the weakening of American democracy and institutions through their racist displacement.
Because the next Trump won't be as silly and feckless as The Donald and likely won't need Russian help to mobilize the nativist underbelly of this country. Then we'll be well and truly (bleep). |
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ChefLinda
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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There is a lot of racism, sexism and general bigotry underlying a lot of the rhetoric and policies being espoused from our government these days. And one of the largest problems - which is hard to cure - is that it often takes being a member of the effected group to see it for what it is, especially where it is subtle and/or where it is masked by a straw man argument only a small % of the population is intelligent enough to see through.
The man is racist and, unlike his economic policies, it does trickle down.
On a separate note, Trump tweeted the other day essentially saying that if the FBI wasn't so focused on him and Russia, that it would have caught the Florida shooter before he shot up the school. What a pathetic and small human being we have for a President. I've started to see more and more conservatives - even those who love his, Ryan's and McConnell's policies, at least begin to recognize that.
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ani007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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yeah even my friend who is a trump fan thought that was stupid. not wrong. repugnant. but stupid for tying it back to him or something.
he used the death of children tied it to his political (bleep)-storm bash the fbi etc i mean doesn't get lower than that. a gross person who is totally incapable of empathy. |
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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We had a high school shooting where 17 kids died, 13 people were indicted for committing federal crimes against the United States, and our President spent the weekend having a meltdown. Another great week for America.  |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Pro tip for those of you arguing against the proposition that trump isn’t racist: you can’t engage honestly or logically with ideas that are neither. |
How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread?
It's frustrating because I'm not a Trump supporter. I voted (although admittedly begrudgingly so) for Hillary and have maintained that from the beginning. I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term.
Just curious OL -- has there been a single non leftist perspective that someone has brought in to this so-called discussion that you, or others, have either:
i) welcomed, or
ii) considered to be intellectually honest but you simply and amicably disagree philosophically, or
iii) did not call said person an -ist or -phobe term
Because it looks a lot like a Lakers Discussion thread masquerading as a General Basketball Thread.
I'll just state that at no time did I say anything disrespectful to anyone I was debating with. I didn't force my argument, tried to explain my perspective, and at the end, I even said, let's just move on while others continued in pull quoting the internet.
I'm curious as to how many non-leftist views in this nearly 800 page thread have ever NOT been met with a snarky comment or worse? I'm sure there'll be an "honest" explanation for it.
I try to avoid this thread, due to its disturbing echo chamber nature, but for some reason I was unable to resist temptation earlier this morning against my better judgment. I'll make sure to keep out of it as best I can going forward. |
I feel your frustration. And I am trying to meet you as close to halfway as humanly possible.
But to acknowledge Trump's racism isn't a leftist view. It's reality. And my sole purpose of the last few pages of this thread was to convince Ujah and you of that fact. So we can move on from that fact and discuss solutions.
I'd rather be having a convo about how Trump's ignorance is producing poor economic policy for our country. But we're still stuck at step 1. Why he is anything and everything anti-Obama. |
It's not rocket science. but its funny when some people try to make it rocket science.
is the guy a racist?
well first you must define what you think a racist is. Then go find a real good definition of racist/racism. So we can all get off of what we THINK it to be vs what it actually is.
| Quote: |
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-racist.html
HAS the party of Lincoln just nominated a racist to be president? We shouldn’t toss around such accusations lightly, so I’ve looked back over more than 40 years of Donald Trump’s career to see what the record says.
One early red flag arose in 1973, when President Richard Nixon’s Justice Department — not exactly the radicals of the day — sued Trump and his father, Fred Trump, for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals.
I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.
To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.
A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to “Jews and executives,” and discouraged renting to blacks. |
| Quote: | | As Trump moved into casinos, discrimination followed. In the 1980s, according to a former Trump casino worker, Kip Brown, who was quoted by The New Yorker: “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor. … They put us all in the back.” |
| Quote: | In 1991, a book by John O’Donnell, who had been president of the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump as criticizing a black accountant and saying: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” O’Donnell wrote that for months afterward, Trump pressed him to fire the black accountant, until the man resigned of his own accord.
Trump eventually denied making those comments. But in 1997 in a Playboy interview, he conceded “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.” |
| Quote: | Another revealing moment came in 1989, when New York City was convulsed by the “Central Park jogger” case, a rape and beating of a young white woman. Five black and Latino teenagers were arrested.
Trump stepped in, denounced Mayor Ed Koch’s call for peace and bought full-page newspaper ads calling for the death penalty. The five teenagers spent years in prison before being exonerated. In retrospect, they suffered a modern version of a lynching, and Trump played a part in whipping up the crowds. |
doesnt that last line sound like right present day trump?
Last edited by splashmtn on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | I’ll agree that Trump is not a racist in a blatant, white hood, swasika way. But to deny his racist tendencies, remarks and legislative agenda is intellectually dishonest. It might not meet your personal bar of “racism” RF, however, it is indeed still racist. |
I simply refuse to believe birtherism isn't inherently racist.
If Obama were white, Trump would not be questioning his nationality. That makes him a racist, cut-and-dry. Like you said, it may be less virulent than a neo-Nazi sort of racism, but it's still overt and it's coming from the POTUS. That should be unacceptable. |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread? |
Well you COULD do that, but it wouldn't be accurate. You're confusing giving equal opportunity to all viewpoints with holding all viewpoints to the same quality control standards. If one side of a discussion consistently articulates only bad arguments, then slamming those bad arguments doesn't represent a case of allowing only the other side to express its views.
I keep saying I look forward to the day when someone argues intelligently and rationally for the other side....and to my disappointment, that day still has not come.
BTW, I acknowledge it's at least a remote possibility that Trump is in fact, not a racist -- rather he's a narcissist who understands that stoking others' racism is simply a means to his desired end. But the parsimonious explanation is that he's simply a narcissist AND a racist. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote:
| Quote: | | I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term. |
What is your definition of the classical sense of the term?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | How ironic that you'd say this in the "Political Discussion" thread, quite possibly, the most dishonest thread title on the site. Why not just call it the "Leftist Views Only" thread? |
Well you COULD do that, but it wouldn't be accurate. You're confusing giving equal opportunity to all viewpoints with holding all viewpoints to the same quality control standards. If one side of a discussion consistently articulates only bad arguments, then slamming those bad arguments doesn't represent a case of allowing only the other side to express its views.
I keep saying I look forward to the day when someone argues intelligently and rationally for the other side....and to my disappointment, that day still has not come.
BTW, I acknowledge it's at least a remote possibility that Trump is in fact, not a racist -- rather he's a narcissist who understands that stoking others' racism is simply a means to his desired end. But the parsimonious explanation is that he's simply a narcissist AND a racist. |
And a bully. Bullying is the defining characteristic of Trump’s behavior. It also dovetails nicely with the fact that it is the defining characteristic of the current GOP zeitgeist. And while I’ve seen a fair amount of bullying from the left, there’s just a special place for it on the right, which is built on racism and exceptionalism and individualism and militarism and machoism, all things that are very very conducive and connected to bullying.
I often joke that the right loves the military so much because it is the ultimate bully, and one thing bullies do is align themselves with bigger bullies (this also applies to the affinity for Trump imo). And one thing bullies hate is a fair fight, or to feel outnumbered.
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | ringfinger wrote:
| Quote: | | I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term. |
What is your definition of the classical sense of the term? |
does it really matter what ring says his definition is, when we have some real solid definitions already established?
http://www.euroamerican.org/library/definitions_racism.asp
^^those are all the definitions one needs to know what racism is therefore knowing what a racist is. then just google trump and racism. all your info is readily available. Just in case you can't see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears. That's the beauty of the Internets. You can actually check people's backgrounds to see what they are really about. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | ringfinger wrote:
| Quote: | | I think overall, Trump is an awful president, but I just don't think he's a racist in the classical sense of the term. |
What is your definition of the classical sense of the term? |
does it really matter what ring says his definition is, when we have some real solid definitions already established?
http://www.euroamerican.org/library/definitions_racism.asp
^^those are all the definitions one needs to know what racism is therefore knowing what a racist is. then just google trump and racism. all your info is readily available. Just in case you can't see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears. That's the beauty of the Internets. You can actually check people's backgrounds to see what they are really about. |
I'm familiar with meaning of racism. I'm interested in how ring defines classical racism.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I'm familiar with meaning of racism. I'm interested in how ring defines classical racism. |
It means putting on a hood and burning a cross. Anything less overt, like say refusing to hire African-American employees or criminal profiling men/women of color, and that is just simply "modern racism."
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I'm familiar with meaning of racism. I'm interested in how ring defines classical racism. |
It means putting on a hood and burning a cross. Anything less overt, like say refusing to hire African-American employees or criminal profiling men/women of color, and that is just simply "modern racism." |
ringfinger wrote:
| Quote: | | I didn't force my argument, tried to explain my perspective, |
I'm asking for a explanation of his perspective. I'm not familiar with classical racism. I'm asking what is it? I'm sure ring won't mind giving his perspective.
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