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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Healthcare: We are going to stop the shell game (kick off the sick and lower benefits to bring premiums down but bankrupt you if you actually need to use it) and work to bring down the actual cost of health care and make it available to all Americans.

Taxes: We are going to reverse the Trump tax cuts and instead of giving it to the wealthy, who can afford to pay taxes, we are going to give the tax breaks to working Americans.

The Environment: We believe that clean air and water are a benefit to all of us, and aren't going to poison your children for some current profits.


Guns: You get to keep them, murderers and terrorists don't.

Corruption: We're going to take money out of politics and ensure that corporations can no longer buy candidates.

Marijuana: Legalize it and tax the crap out of it.

...and I would stay as far away from social issues and military issues as possible. Just as everyone who cares has already made their mind up on whether Trump is a good or bad guy, people have already made their mind up on things like gay marriage and abortion. Talking about those things too much just gives someone who is tentatively on your side a reason to change their mind.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he is an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


LINK
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?



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Laker4andmore
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?


I usually dont pay attention to those type of stories because a lot of it is gossip and maybe its true or maybe its not type of stuff.

If he had to testify under oath about it, I would have watched that.

Anyway Moore was terrible. Glad he lost.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Laker4andmore wrote:
ocho wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?


I usually dont pay attention to those type of stories because a lot of it is gossip and maybe its true or maybe its not type of stuff.

If he had to testify under oath about it, I would have watched that.

Anyway Moore was terrible. Glad he lost.


"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters"
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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Laker4andmore wrote:
ocho wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?


I usually dont pay attention to those type of stories because a lot of it is gossip and maybe its true or maybe its not type of stuff.

If he had to testify under oath about it, I would have watched that.

Anyway Moore was terrible. Glad he lost.


People might be more open to engaging with you in a serious way if you approached things a little more honestly. It really would be nice to have a conservative contribute to this thread that isn't a crank.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:


People might be more open to engaging with you in a serious way if you approached things a little more honestly. It really would be nice to have a conservative contribute to this thread that isn't a crank.


Not a conservative.

Independent who believes in libertarian philosophies (not practical application).

Had it been Clinton Bush (which is what I originally thought was going to happen) I would have voted for Jill Stein or Johnson.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Healthcare: We are going to stop the shell game (kick off the sick and lower benefits to bring premiums down but bankrupt you if you actually need to use it) and work to bring down the actual cost of health care and make it available to all Americans.

Taxes: We are going to reverse the Trump tax cuts and instead of giving it to the wealthy, who can afford to pay taxes, we are going to give the tax breaks to working Americans.

The Environment: We believe that clean air and water are a benefit to all of us, and aren't going to poison your children for some current profits.


Guns: You get to keep them, murderers and terrorists don't.

Corruption: We're going to take money out of politics and ensure that corporations can no longer buy candidates.

Marijuana: Legalize it and tax the crap out of it.

...and I would stay as far away from social issues and military issues as possible. Just as everyone who cares has already made their mind up on whether Trump is a good or bad guy, people have already made their mind up on things like gay marriage and abortion. Talking about those things too much just gives someone who is tentatively on your side a reason to change their mind.


Why not address the fact that we're vulnerable on a national security level as a result of the current administration's policies? That's a real concern and I think it needs to be highlighted that our law and order administration is anything but.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

I've heard the Democrats strategy for 2020. It's nothing new. Voters know Trumps a liar. They know he's the swap master. They know he's filling the coffers of the rich, himself and family. They don't seem to care.

Dems won't change many minds attacking Trump.

I think they should focus on health care, taxes, building middle class support, education, rebuilding infrastructure, etc. Things that the average citizen has investments in.

Stay away from impeachment, proving Trumps a liar, for the rich not the poor or middle class these are known's.

Last but not least, get strong seasoned leadership. I like Holder.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I've heard the Democrats strategy for 2020. It's nothing new. Voters know Trumps a liar. They know he's the swap master. They know he's filling the coffers of the rich, himself and family. They don't seem to care.

Dems won't change many minds attacking Trump.

I think they should focus on health care, taxes, building middle class support, education, rebuilding infrastructure, etc. Things that the average citizen has investments in.

Stay away from impeachment, proving Trumps a liar, for the rich not the poor or middle class these are known's.

Last but not least, get strong seasoned leadership. I like Holder.


Interesting. I have long been thinking about who the next Dem candidate should be. I think Kennedy is too young and I don't think there's anyone else that has stepped forward in a meaningful way.

Holder is an interesting suggestion.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Can we just get Dr. Frankenstein to ressurect the late great George Carlin and have him run in 2020??
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject:

Laker4andmore wrote:
ocho wrote:


People might be more open to engaging with you in a serious way if you approached things a little more honestly. It really would be nice to have a conservative contribute to this thread that isn't a crank.


Not a conservative.

Independent who believes in libertarian philosophies (not practical application).

Had it been Clinton Bush (which is what I originally thought was going to happen) I would have voted for Jill Stein or Johnson.


LOL, how on earth would a libertarian vote for Jill Stein, who was the least libertarian candidate in the field?
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Out of curiosity, and I know I'm just setting myself up for another run around the maypole, but just what in the (bleep) does, "believes in libertarian philosophies (not practical application) even mean?
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Healthcare: We are going to stop the shell game (kick off the sick and lower benefits to bring premiums down but bankrupt you if you actually need to use it) and work to bring down the actual cost of health care and make it available to all Americans.

Taxes: We are going to reverse the Trump tax cuts and instead of giving it to the wealthy, who can afford to pay taxes, we are going to give the tax breaks to working Americans.

The Environment: We believe that clean air and water are a benefit to all of us, and aren't going to poison your children for some current profits.


Guns: You get to keep them, murderers and terrorists don't.

Corruption: We're going to take money out of politics and ensure that corporations can no longer buy candidates.

Marijuana: Legalize it and tax the crap out of it.

...and I would stay as far away from social issues and military issues as possible. Just as everyone who cares has already made their mind up on whether Trump is a good or bad guy, people have already made their mind up on things like gay marriage and abortion. Talking about those things too much just gives someone who is tentatively on your side a reason to change their mind.


Why not address the fact that we're vulnerable on a national security level as a result of the current administration's policies? That's a real concern and I think it needs to be highlighted that our law and order administration is anything but.


What Omar was trying to do (and what I was trying to attach myself to) is an election strategy which focuses on what we can do for you, rather than what we can scare you with. While the issue you bring up is important, it gets back to what is likely a losing strategy - further criticizing Trump and trying to play the fear card to win votes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject:

FWIW, I think the Trump card (TM) is going to be a lot different to play in 2018 and 2020 than it was in 2016. He has a record now, and a lot of people who talked themselves into , "he can't be that bad", or "I don't really like her", are seeing that, yeah, it can be that bad, and damn, we could have used boring, uncharismatic hillary.

You can't just run with it, but as you've seen in special elections, it IS effective.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject:

From Seth Abramson: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/999040242496757761

20 things guilty people do that Trump does daily

(Drawing from my years as a defense attorney)

#1 DEFLECT BLAME: Criminals seek others who may have conducted themselves poorly in order to unload or distribute blame rightly assigned to them. Trump does this with ex-aides like Manafort, Flynn and Papadopoulos, who he presents as little known by him and/or having gone rogue.

#2 ALLEGE A CONSPIRACY: Criminals will claim a conspiracy as the cause of their problems. The most common conspiracy alleged is between witnesses or members of law enforcement. Trump repeatedly alleges that government officials and law enforcement officers conspired against him.

#3 COMPLAIN ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT: Criminals want to talk about the investigation itself, rather than what and who the investigation is investigating. Trump obsessively complains about aspects of the investigation against him that don’t actually change the underlying evidence.

#4 TAMPER WITH WITNESSES: Criminals will often seek contact with known witnesses either to convince them not to testify, to change their story, to remain loyal to the defendant, or to intimidate them. Trump did this with Flynn, Yates, Comey, McCabe, Sessions, his son, and others.

#5 DISTRACT ATTENTION FROM THEIR ACTIONS: Criminals eagerly discuss subjects beyond their pending case when doing so distracts from their criminal liability. Trump’s war on “fake news” and unhinged tweetstorms distract attention from an investigation threatening to take him down.

#6 REFUSE TO ANSWER VALID QUESTIONS: Criminals refuse to discuss, sometimes even with a lawyer, inculpatory facts, whether things they said, decisions they made, or actions they took. Trump has successfully evaded answering even the most basic questions on what he knew and when.

#7 EXHIBIT FALSE CONFIDENCE: Criminals often assure allies and defenders that there’s nothing to be found against them and they’ll shortly be exonerated, even when nothing in the facts supports this view. Trump’s wild claims that he’ll soon be exonerated fall into this category.

#8 USE “EVEN IF” ARGUMENTS: Criminals often float self-aggrandizing hypotheticals in the form of bet-hedging: “Even if I did X, it wouldn’t be illegal, or I would’ve been justified…” Trump does this most flagrantly when discussing whether he told Flynn to negotiate with Russia.

#9 PLAY DUMB: Criminals will claim to have no knowledge of things they obviously would have known about. Trump claims to have known absolutely nothing any of his aides (even his own sons) were doing with the Russians, a claim that strains credulity well past the breaking point.

#10 EXHIBIT UNUSUAL AGITATION: Criminals exhibit anger in response to warranted criminal accusations; in my own experience, innocent people react to false accusations with signs of confusion, fear, and depression. Trump has responded to Mueller with rage and false self-assurance.

#11 LEVELING NEW ACCUSATIONS OF IDENTICAL CONDUCT: Criminals accused of, say, assault will often level new claims (even unrelated ones) that someone else is guilty of assault. Trump regularly accuses people of the lying, cover-ups, and treasonous conduct he stands accused of now.

#12 OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE: Criminals will try to slow the investigation against them, including by refusing to speak or delaying speaking to investigators. Trump not only won’t speak to investigators, he’s tried to fire, get reassigned, or force into retirement those investigators.

#13 AVOID GIVING EVIDENCE UNDER OATH: Criminals are smart enough to know that they must never be placed under oath on the subject of their crimes. Trump, despite saying in the Rose Garden that he’d speak to Mueller under oath, has thus far refused to make good on that assurance.

#14 DENY SIMILAR PAST CONDUCT: Even though criminal defense attorneys have access to clients’ criminal records, criminals often attempt to downplay or deny their criminal pasts. Trump has denied provable and known frauds, perjuries, and clandestine foreign contacts from his past.

#15 TELL UNNECESSARY, GRANDIOSE LIES: Criminals lie out of fear; they tell grandiose lies out of a false belief they can orchestrate their exoneration. Trump’s lies about how he conducted himself at the Ritz Moscow in 2013 (grandiose and quickly disproven) are an example of this.

#16 DRAW OTHERS INTO THEIR COVER-UP: Criminals are so focused on their own survival that they needlessly draw innocents into their schemes for self-salvation. Trump uses others (including attorneys, spokespeople, aides, and family members) to spread lies about his Russian ties.

#17 TRUST ONLY FAMILY: Criminals, especially those who’ve participated in a conspiracy, necessarily operate within a small circle of trust. Trump has surrounded his business dealings with family members and attorneys to make it unlikely or impossible that anyone will rat him out.

#18 PLAY WITH LANGUAGE: Criminals know statutes are well-defined, so they get cute with language to seek out wiggle room in their criminal liability. Trump uses word games, misquotations, false definitions, and linguistic misdirection to undercut precise legal terms and concepts.

#19 SEEK DODGY ALLIES AND PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS: Criminals recruit dodgy witnesses or pursue suspect lines of inquiry to evade probes whose just administration they know will catch them. Trump uses House allies, Fox News, and dodgy pals to build a wall of allies around himself.

#20 UNDERSCORE SUPPORTERS’ AFFECTION: Criminals hope that, if they don’t have the facts on their side, they can at least get others to say they’re a good person. Trump pumps up supporters’ adulation, praise, and encouragement at every turn to transform popularity into innocence.

(BONUS) DENY KNOWN ASSOCIATIONS: Criminals deny knowing people they believe they can credibly deny knowing, if knowing them would be inculpatory. Trump has done this with Papadopoulos, Sater, Page and many others who he definitely knows but who he fears Mueller has linked to him.

(NOTE) The above applies only to the 5% of arrested individuals who a) did exactly what they were accused of, and b) refuse to admit what they did and then seek a just punishment via plea. Trump is in the tiny minority of criminals who won’t take responsibility for their actions.

(THANKS) Many thanks to the excellent David Swerdlick of The Washington Post, who encouraged me to flesh out and publish this analysis, and who saw an early draft of it. And thanks to the *many* criminal defense attorneys I spoke with over the months while preparing this summary.

What are you hiding, Donald?

Hopefully, Robert Mueller will let us know pretty soon.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject:

I feel like Trump is akin to burning building. A candidate and his audience are inside the burning building for a speech about why its important to evacuate. Ultimately, no matter which group an audience member is in, telling them they need to evacuate or else get burnt alive is a wasted effort:

*The first group sees the burning building and they run. They don't need to be reminded. They are smart enough to see fire, know what it is and know it will kill them.
*The next group of people see the fire, but don't think its enough to kill them - they require other reasons to motivate them to evacuate. Reminding them of the fire just makes them tune you out. Only way to win them over is to explain that there is a better building next door.
*The last group just don't see the fire at all; as such, if you tell them there is a fire, they say "where?" and think you are crazy. They can't be convinced otherwise, just as trying to talk a blind man out of being blind doesn't suddenly give him working eyes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Democrats have to focus on a message that's not aimed at trying to win the Trumpsters. They're the people in the burning building.

This is a strategy that may bring some into the fold but I don't think it should be the focus.

Turning up the heat on Trump: Dems say 'culture of corruption' to be focus of midterms

LINK
Quote:

WASHINGTON — Democrats are going to make prosecuting what they called a "culture of corruption" in President Donald Trump's administration a central theme of this year's midterm elections, the party's congressional leaders signaled Monday.

"The swamp has never been more foul or more feted than under this president," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said at a news conference on the Capitol steps.


Quote:
He added at the news conference: "The people know what happens when a culture of corruption takes hold. Government works for somebody else and not for them."

It's an effort to provide an overarching framework of the myriad and diverse scandals in Washington, from Scott Pruitt's Environment Protection Agency to the Trump-Russia saga, arguing that they all come back to a culture in which donors are rewarded, not voters.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Democrats have to focus on a message that's not aimed at trying to win the Trumpsters. They're the people in the burning building.

This is a strategy that may bring some into the fold but I don't think it should be the focus.

Turning up the heat on Trump: Dems say 'culture of corruption' to be focus of midterms

LINK
Quote:

WASHINGTON — Democrats are going to make prosecuting what they called a "culture of corruption" in President Donald Trump's administration a central theme of this year's midterm elections, the party's congressional leaders signaled Monday.

"The swamp has never been more foul or more feted than under this president," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said at a news conference on the Capitol steps.


Quote:
He added at the news conference: "The people know what happens when a culture of corruption takes hold. Government works for somebody else and not for them."

It's an effort to provide an overarching framework of the myriad and diverse scandals in Washington, from Scott Pruitt's Environment Protection Agency to the Trump-Russia saga, arguing that they all come back to a culture in which donors are rewarded, not voters.


Dems should be focusing on his this administration has screwed the middle class.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Freidman has been disbarred. Mueller is tightening the noose.

Michael Cohen's business partner agrees to cooperate with the government

LINK
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:

I suppose a Democrat winning a Senate seat in deep red Alabama is proof of this?


Roy Moore was a terrible candidate because he was an evangelical.

I dont think its a trend of whats to come.


lol was there anything else you can think of that made him a bad candidate?



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
Lesley Stahl asked Trump in semi-private meeting why he’s always attacking the press. His answer: “I want to demean you and discredit you so that when you do negative stories about me, no one will believe you.” @deadlineclub #deadlineawards

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/998967818937827329


I don't doubt that's what is going on at all. But I do have my doubts about that quote. No way is Trump able to string that many words together in coherent fashion.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Laker4andmore wrote:
It wasnt the FBI under Trump who put a presidential candidate teams under surveillance based in part on information that paid for by the rival campaign.

It was the FBI under Obama that did that.

Trump is more than perfectly justfied in not being a fan of Comey's FBI considering what they did.

Used opposition research that was paid for by Hilary and the DNC as evidence to justify the surveillance of Trumps campaign team in FISA courts and then Comey called the dossier unverified and salacious under oath in committee hearings. Unreal.


Again, I can only imagine what the medias reaction would be if the FBI under Trump put the democratic presidential nominee under surveillance in FISA courts using evidence that was paid for by Trump and the RNC.


My guess is the media would treat it as a pretty big scandal. lol


Dunning–Kruger.


Textbook.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject:

Freddie Buckets wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Democrats have to focus on a message that's not aimed at trying to win the Trumpsters. They're the people in the burning building.

This is a strategy that may bring some into the fold but I don't think it should be the focus.

Turning up the heat on Trump: Dems say 'culture of corruption' to be focus of midterms

LINK
Quote:

WASHINGTON — Democrats are going to make prosecuting what they called a "culture of corruption" in President Donald Trump's administration a central theme of this year's midterm elections, the party's congressional leaders signaled Monday.

"The swamp has never been more foul or more feted than under this president," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said at a news conference on the Capitol steps.


Quote:
He added at the news conference: "The people know what happens when a culture of corruption takes hold. Government works for somebody else and not for them."

It's an effort to provide an overarching framework of the myriad and diverse scandals in Washington, from Scott Pruitt's Environment Protection Agency to the Trump-Russia saga, arguing that they all come back to a culture in which donors are rewarded, not voters.


Dems should be focusing on his this administration has screwed the middle class.


and how well they were rewarded for it
Did the Kochs Contribute $500,000 to Paul Ryan After the GOP Tax Plan Was Passed?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kochs-contributed-ryan-after-tax/

WELFARE CORPORATE WELFARE^^

Rape the citizens.. pay the Overlords..

Serfdom
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