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Huey Lewis & The News
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject:

people don't think it be like it is, but it do
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject:

I don't have a lot of faith that Trump will be impeached, or even that they'll try to impeach him. Even if the Dems regain the majority in both houses, it seems like too many of them lack the balls (not sure if I'm allowed to use that word on this board) to take action. As a hard core liberal, I have to be honest about non-liberal Dems by saying that. It's going to be harder for the left to level the playing field than some think.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject:

I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:


Impeachment is the fantasy that won’t quit.


We're stuck with the miscreant til 2020. Only saving grace is that there probably isn't a bigger turnout machine for the opposition than D.J. Trump. Job #1 for Dems at the moment is to ensure turnout for the midterms so that the Tweet Master General is stymied and can't do any more real long term harm. The good news on that front is if you take a gander at the recent spate of Primaries, Democrat turnout outpaced Republican turnout in every single set of races. As long as that carries over to the mid terms, then the Democrats should be all right.

The advice I'd give the Democrats for the ensuing two years is to concentrate on sending as much good legislation to Cheeto's desk as is humanly possible. Make sure the American people clearly understand what he represents by having a full warchest to point to that the Liar in Chief can't run away from in 2020. They do that, and there isn't anyone I'd rather they have to run against than Tweety Bird. If they make the mistake of wasting two years on impeachment, then they'll likely again end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Just think about the timeline. Impeachment wouldn't be a quick process. There's nothing to win by wasting all that valuable time. Even if they were to be successful, it would take pretty much most of that two years. Waste of friggin time...
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains.

You're right, but the Dems also need balls. Brains with no balls gets us nowhere. Balls with no brains gets us in trouble.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject:

The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time.


I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time.


I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected.


Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time.


I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected.


Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard.

You mean like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice?

If Trump is ever sent to prison it won't be until long after he's left office, and even then, remember that filthy rich people like him can "buy" justice in our country (see O.J. Simpson).
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
ocho wrote:
Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time.


I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected.


Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard.

You mean like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice?

If Trump is ever sent to prison it won't be until long after he's left office, and even then, remember that filthy rich people like him can "buy" justice in our country (see O.J. Simpson).


Among others. The consequences for their crimes have been book deals, cable news jobs, and other powerful positions. We simply don't punish the powerful for political reasons. Don't at all be surprised if Trump's legacy is ultimately that of a shrewd political game changer and communicator.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:50 am    Post subject:

So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject:

Put the presidency aside. Trump is a mobbed up criminal who got away with money laundering, fraud, etc. because he paid off local politicians and the spotlight wasn't on these activities. When he decided to run for president, he opened up that Pandora's box. Mueller has been following the money all over the world with experts in cyber crime, money laundering, financial crimes, mob crimes, etc. They aren't doing that for nothing. It was reported yesterday (on Chris Hayes show) that Mueller has a dead man's switch in case he gets shut down -- there are piles of indictments ready when he pushes "send." About a half dozen of Trump's extended campaign circle have already flipped with the Feds putting the squeeze on Cohen and Manafort. Again, Mueller, the ex-FBI head, who knows the law inside out and backwards, who believes in the rule of law, who catches the bad guys for a living, is not doing this to just write a report. I understand the skepticism and cynicism but I refuse to believe there will be no consequences for this level of criminality.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024.


This thread is bent so far left that this post is refreshing to see a response like this. Instead of many discussions coming back to spilled milk I'd like to hear more about a strong candidate that is electable. Don't preach to me about the hillbillies that went out and voted or the guy they voted for that you hate, tell me the candidate I should vote for in 2020 and why.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that


She’s not lying. Pelosi has always been a pragmatist. She knows talking impeachment as a central thread is probably not a great plan, and she will or not impeach as a speaker (assuming they and she win) based on the merits of what is being accomplished. She learned lessons from the Clinton impeachment.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
Ted wrote:
The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024.


This thread is bent so far left that this post is refreshing to see a response like this. Instead of many discussions coming back to spilled milk I'd like to hear more about a strong candidate that is electable. Don't preach to me about the hillbillies that went out and voted or the guy they voted for that you hate, tell me the candidate I should vote for in 2020 and why.


Ok, what you got?
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
governator wrote:
So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that


She’s not lying. Pelosi has always been a pragmatist. She knows talking impeachment as a central thread is probably not a great plan, and she will or not impeach as a speaker (assuming they and she win) based on the merits of what is being accomplished. She learned lessons from the Clinton impeachment.


There are a few reasons for not talking about it, but personally, the biggest one is the 3 words that scare the everloving crap out of me....

President Mike Pence.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

I said from the beginning that Pence is in some ways more dangerous than Trump. He’s a true believer and an expert in the political system without the wild personality disadvantages. So while he may not be as pure an avatar to the base, he will get (bleep) done at a much higher rate. The key benefit of Trump is how his personality leads to getting far less done than he could.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject:

NOW the conspiracy theories are really going to start flying...

Roger Stone's finances examined by special counsel

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/politics/roger-stone-finances-special-counsel-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html

the Mercers must be on Mueller's short list
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

If Trump's impeached (he won't be removed) he'll say the FBI, the DOJ and Mueller, are out to get him and his base will rally around this lie.

IMO impeaching Teflon Don would do more harm than good. We're stuck with this snake oil salesman until 2020.

Democrats best hope is registering voters and beating the get out and vote drum.

IMO we dethrone Trump in the voting booth.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains.

You're right, but the Dems also need balls. Brains with no balls gets us nowhere. Balls with no brains gets us in trouble.


And the only thing that gives orders is ballz. --Tony M.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject:

It's worth noting that now that they have been "freed' by Trump, his base isn't likely to just accept a blue wave as legitimate, or go back to hiding in the shadows. I expect there's going to be an ongoing violence issue.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject:

Good quote I saw re what we've been discussing:

Quote:
It is one of fascism’s goals to monopolize our attention. It would like to shrink our imagination; it would like for us to peer wide-eyed at its harsh restrictions and be able to think of nothing else. And it is tempting to stare like this, because fascism and its precursors are rife with contradictions that seem to beg to be pointed out by Reasonable People. But that’s one of its tricks. Fascism welcomes our attempts to play logical “gotcha” with its inconsistencies because it knows we will lose—not because we won’t find a fallacy but because the fallacy won’t matter.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Good quote I saw re what we've been discussing:

Quote:
It is one of fascism’s goals to monopolize our attention. It would like to shrink our imagination; it would like for us to peer wide-eyed at its harsh restrictions and be able to think of nothing else. And it is tempting to stare like this, because fascism and its precursors are rife with contradictions that seem to beg to be pointed out by Reasonable People. But that’s one of its tricks. Fascism welcomes our attempts to play logical “gotcha” with its inconsistencies because it knows we will lose—not because we won’t find a fallacy but because the fallacy won’t matter.


I liken Trump's rise to the rise of Kim Kardashian and her sex tape.
Trump probably believes bad publicity is better than no publicity. And to a degree, he's right. Because whether the news is good or bad (mostly bad). He still controls the narrative.
All the Dems can do is what comes natural. Give the corruption and collusion the attention it deserves. But also talk about what our party stands for.

And when we do talk about what we stand for, push the agenda as left as possible. Argue for a living wage, because worst case scenario we end up with an increased federal minimum wage. Argue for FREE college, so if we end up with more affordable college. It's still better than where we are. Massive infrastructure spending, huge cuts in defense spending, single payer/medicare for all.
If Trump can grab attention for his abhorrent-ness. Lets grab attention too. With a FAAAAAR left agenda. Let's worry more about minority voting rights and energizing the far left. And forget about Trump voters all together.
That's what's best for our party ... and country.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

One last thing. Even when Dems settle, they are still portrayed by Fox News and other conservative outlets as far left wing extremists. We might as well live up to the reputation.

Those Dems who approved Gina Haspel for CIA are so dumb. Because it's not like Rush Limbaugh and Fox News will take it easy on them because they compromised. When those Senate elections come up in purple-ish states. Those Dems will still get attack ads saying they are left wing extremists. And conservative donors won't back them no matter what.
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