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Huey Lewis & The News Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 5234 Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a lot of faith that Trump will be impeached, or even that they'll try to impeach him. Even if the Dems regain the majority in both houses, it seems like too many of them lack the balls (not sure if I'm allowed to use that word on this board) to take action. As a hard core liberal, I have to be honest about non-liberal Dems by saying that. It's going to be harder for the left to level the playing field than some think. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: |
Impeachment is the fantasy that won’t quit. |
We're stuck with the miscreant til 2020. Only saving grace is that there probably isn't a bigger turnout machine for the opposition than D.J. Trump. Job #1 for Dems at the moment is to ensure turnout for the midterms so that the Tweet Master General is stymied and can't do any more real long term harm. The good news on that front is if you take a gander at the recent spate of Primaries, Democrat turnout outpaced Republican turnout in every single set of races. As long as that carries over to the mid terms, then the Democrats should be all right.
The advice I'd give the Democrats for the ensuing two years is to concentrate on sending as much good legislation to Cheeto's desk as is humanly possible. Make sure the American people clearly understand what he represents by having a full warchest to point to that the Liar in Chief can't run away from in 2020. They do that, and there isn't anyone I'd rather they have to run against than Tweety Bird. If they make the mistake of wasting two years on impeachment, then they'll likely again end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Just think about the timeline. Impeachment wouldn't be a quick process. There's nothing to win by wasting all that valuable time. Even if they were to be successful, it would take pretty much most of that two years. Waste of friggin time... _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains. |
You're right, but the Dems also need balls. Brains with no balls gets us nowhere. Balls with no brains gets us in trouble. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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Ted Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024. |
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Ted Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time. |
I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ted wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time. |
I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected. |
Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Ted wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time. |
I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected. |
Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard. |
You mean like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice?
If Trump is ever sent to prison it won't be until long after he's left office, and even then, remember that filthy rich people like him can "buy" justice in our country (see O.J. Simpson). _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:54 am Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | ocho wrote: | Ted wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Unless the republicans are willing to go along, the better play is to win in 2020 and then go after him criminally. Let him be the first president ever to serve time. |
I don't think he will ever see the inside of a prison. Everyone around him might, but he will be protected. |
Check out all the Bush administration figures currently in prison for a sneak peek of what we can expect in that regard. |
You mean like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice?
If Trump is ever sent to prison it won't be until long after he's left office, and even then, remember that filthy rich people like him can "buy" justice in our country (see O.J. Simpson). |
Among others. The consequences for their crimes have been book deals, cable news jobs, and other powerful positions. We simply don't punish the powerful for political reasons. Don't at all be surprised if Trump's legacy is ultimately that of a shrewd political game changer and communicator. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: |
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So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that |
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ChefLinda Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 24113 Location: Boston
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Put the presidency aside. Trump is a mobbed up criminal who got away with money laundering, fraud, etc. because he paid off local politicians and the spotlight wasn't on these activities. When he decided to run for president, he opened up that Pandora's box. Mueller has been following the money all over the world with experts in cyber crime, money laundering, financial crimes, mob crimes, etc. They aren't doing that for nothing. It was reported yesterday (on Chris Hayes show) that Mueller has a dead man's switch in case he gets shut down -- there are piles of indictments ready when he pushes "send." About a half dozen of Trump's extended campaign circle have already flipped with the Feds putting the squeeze on Cohen and Manafort. Again, Mueller, the ex-FBI head, who knows the law inside out and backwards, who believes in the rule of law, who catches the bad guys for a living, is not doing this to just write a report. I understand the skepticism and cynicism but I refuse to believe there will be no consequences for this level of criminality.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Sat May 26, 2018 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fansincemagic Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Ted wrote: | The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024. |
This thread is bent so far left that this post is refreshing to see a response like this. Instead of many discussions coming back to spilled milk I'd like to hear more about a strong candidate that is electable. Don't preach to me about the hillbillies that went out and voted or the guy they voted for that you hate, tell me the candidate I should vote for in 2020 and why. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that |
She’s not lying. Pelosi has always been a pragmatist. She knows talking impeachment as a central thread is probably not a great plan, and she will or not impeach as a speaker (assuming they and she win) based on the merits of what is being accomplished. She learned lessons from the Clinton impeachment. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:29 am Post subject: |
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fansincemagic wrote: | Ted wrote: | The left lives in a reality world. Trump isn't going anywhere. Even if he is impeached, he will call it a sham, his base will believe it, and he will be just as strong in 2020. I don't know why people keep underestimating Trump and his base, they are not going anywhere. Dems have to put up a solid candidate in 2020 or we're stuck with the orange man until 2024. |
This thread is bent so far left that this post is refreshing to see a response like this. Instead of many discussions coming back to spilled milk I'd like to hear more about a strong candidate that is electable. Don't preach to me about the hillbillies that went out and voted or the guy they voted for that you hate, tell me the candidate I should vote for in 2020 and why. |
Ok, what you got? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | governator wrote: | So you guys think Pelosi is just lying so not to energize Trump’s base for the elections... I can see that |
She’s not lying. Pelosi has always been a pragmatist. She knows talking impeachment as a central thread is probably not a great plan, and she will or not impeach as a speaker (assuming they and she win) based on the merits of what is being accomplished. She learned lessons from the Clinton impeachment. |
There are a few reasons for not talking about it, but personally, the biggest one is the 3 words that scare the everloving crap out of me....
President Mike Pence. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:11 am Post subject: |
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I said from the beginning that Pence is in some ways more dangerous than Trump. He’s a true believer and an expert in the political system without the wild personality disadvantages. So while he may not be as pure an avatar to the base, he will get (bleep) done at a much higher rate. The key benefit of Trump is how his personality leads to getting far less done than he could. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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If Trump's impeached (he won't be removed) he'll say the FBI, the DOJ and Mueller, are out to get him and his base will rally around this lie.
IMO impeaching Teflon Don would do more harm than good. We're stuck with this snake oil salesman until 2020.
Democrats best hope is registering voters and beating the get out and vote drum.
IMO we dethrone Trump in the voting booth. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri May 25, 2018 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | I think the hard core of each party think those more to the center of them lack balls. Balls is what gets you trump. We could use some brains. |
You're right, but the Dems also need balls. Brains with no balls gets us nowhere. Balls with no brains gets us in trouble. |
And the only thing that gives orders is ballz. --Tony M. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: |
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It's worth noting that now that they have been "freed' by Trump, his base isn't likely to just accept a blue wave as legitimate, or go back to hiding in the shadows. I expect there's going to be an ongoing violence issue. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Good quote I saw re what we've been discussing:
Quote: | It is one of fascism’s goals to monopolize our attention. It would like to shrink our imagination; it would like for us to peer wide-eyed at its harsh restrictions and be able to think of nothing else. And it is tempting to stare like this, because fascism and its precursors are rife with contradictions that seem to beg to be pointed out by Reasonable People. But that’s one of its tricks. Fascism welcomes our attempts to play logical “gotcha” with its inconsistencies because it knows we will lose—not because we won’t find a fallacy but because the fallacy won’t matter. |
_________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Good quote I saw re what we've been discussing:
Quote: | It is one of fascism’s goals to monopolize our attention. It would like to shrink our imagination; it would like for us to peer wide-eyed at its harsh restrictions and be able to think of nothing else. And it is tempting to stare like this, because fascism and its precursors are rife with contradictions that seem to beg to be pointed out by Reasonable People. But that’s one of its tricks. Fascism welcomes our attempts to play logical “gotcha” with its inconsistencies because it knows we will lose—not because we won’t find a fallacy but because the fallacy won’t matter. |
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I liken Trump's rise to the rise of Kim Kardashian and her sex tape.
Trump probably believes bad publicity is better than no publicity. And to a degree, he's right. Because whether the news is good or bad (mostly bad). He still controls the narrative.
All the Dems can do is what comes natural. Give the corruption and collusion the attention it deserves. But also talk about what our party stands for.
And when we do talk about what we stand for, push the agenda as left as possible. Argue for a living wage, because worst case scenario we end up with an increased federal minimum wage. Argue for FREE college, so if we end up with more affordable college. It's still better than where we are. Massive infrastructure spending, huge cuts in defense spending, single payer/medicare for all.
If Trump can grab attention for his abhorrent-ness. Lets grab attention too. With a FAAAAAR left agenda. Let's worry more about minority voting rights and energizing the far left. And forget about Trump voters all together.
That's what's best for our party ... and country. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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One last thing. Even when Dems settle, they are still portrayed by Fox News and other conservative outlets as far left wing extremists. We might as well live up to the reputation.
Those Dems who approved Gina Haspel for CIA are so dumb. Because it's not like Rush Limbaugh and Fox News will take it easy on them because they compromised. When those Senate elections come up in purple-ish states. Those Dems will still get attack ads saying they are left wing extremists. And conservative donors won't back them no matter what. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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