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LarryCoon
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Spoken by Bruce Springsteen last night before playing The Ghost of Tom Joad. One example of why I'm a fan:
| Quote: | I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows to be told anything.
But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. It's a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit, to be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isn't such a bad thing.
That weekend of the March for our Lives, we saw those young people in Washington, and citizens all around the world, remind us of what faith in America and real faith in American democracy looks and feels like. It was just encouraging to see all those people out on the street and all that righteous passion in the service of something good. And to see that passion was alive and well and still there at the center of the beating heart of our country.
It was a good day, and a necessary day because we are seeing things right now on our American borders that are so shockingly and disgracefully inhumane and un-American that it is simply enraging. And we have heard people in high position in the American government blaspheme in the name of God and country that it is a moral thing to assault the children amongst us. May God save our souls.
There's the beautiful quote by Dr. King that says the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice. Now, there have been many, many days of recent when you could certainly have an argument over that. But I've lived long enough to see that in action and to put some faith in it. But I've also lived long enough to know that arc doesn't bend on its own. It needs all of us leaning on it, nudging it in the right direction day after day. You gotta keep, keep leaning.
I think it's important to believe in those words, and to carry yourself, and to act accordingly. It's the only way that we keep faith and keep our sanity.
I've played this show 146 nights with basically the same setlist, but tonight calls for something different... |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: |
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  Bruuuuuuce. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: |
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NYT: Michael Bloomberg Will Spend $80 Million on the Midterms. His Goal: Flip the House
| Quote: | Michael R. Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York City, has decided to throw his political clout and personal fortune behind the Democratic campaign to take control of the House of Representatives this year, directing aides to spend tens of millions of dollars in an effort to expel Republicans from power.
Mr. Bloomberg — a political independent who has championed left-of-center policies on gun control, immigration and the environment — has approved a plan to pour at least $80 million into the 2018 election, with the bulk of that money going to support Democratic congressional candidates, advisers to Mr. Bloomberg said.
By siding so emphatically with one party, Mr. Bloomberg has the potential to upend the financial dynamics of the midterm campaign, which have appeared to favor Republicans up to this point. Facing intense opposition to President Trump and conservative policies, Republicans have been counting on a strong economy and heavily funded outside groups to give them a political advantage in key races, especially in affluent suburbs where it is expensive to run television ads. |
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Heartburn
Star Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 6350
Location: The Titanic that is the USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | Spoken by Bruce Springsteen last night before playing The Ghost of Tom Joad. One example of why I'm a fan:
| Quote: | I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows to be told anything.
But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. It's a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit, to be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isn't such a bad thing.
That weekend of the March for our Lives, we saw those young people in Washington, and citizens all around the world, remind us of what faith in America and real faith in American democracy looks and feels like. It was just encouraging to see all those people out on the street and all that righteous passion in the service of something good. And to see that passion was alive and well and still there at the center of the beating heart of our country.
It was a good day, and a necessary day because we are seeing things right now on our American borders that are so shockingly and disgracefully inhumane and un-American that it is simply enraging. And we have heard people in high position in the American government blaspheme in the name of God and country that it is a moral thing to assault the children amongst us. May God save our souls.
There's the beautiful quote by Dr. King that says the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice. Now, there have been many, many days of recent when you could certainly have an argument over that. But I've lived long enough to see that in action and to put some faith in it. But I've also lived long enough to know that arc doesn't bend on its own. It needs all of us leaning on it, nudging it in the right direction day after day. You gotta keep, keep leaning.
I think it's important to believe in those words, and to carry yourself, and to act accordingly. It's the only way that we keep faith and keep our sanity.
I've played this show 146 nights with basically the same setlist, but tonight calls for something different... |
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I only recently discovered his work aside from the hits and I'm blown away. This message above is more of the same. Big fan! A real mensch.
_________________
You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Joined: 18 Dec 2015
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe it! Trump blinked.  Public pressure took it's toll on the Dumpster.
Of course he's blaming Obama and Democrats.
Trump: Will sign executive order to end separations
LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Heartburn
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Bruuuuuuce. |
Indeed. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | I don't believe it! Trump blinked. Public pressure took it's toll on the Dumpster.
Of course he's blaming Obama and Democrats.
Trump: Will sign executive order to end separations
LINK |
This isn't over because this only applies going forward.
There are something like 10,000 kids (or more, who knows if they are even keeping track) who've already been separated AND THERE IS NO ADMINISTRATIVE FRAMEWORK IN PLACE TO REUNITE THEM WITH THEIR PARENTS. Parents who have been deported do no know where their children are and there is no contact point in U.S. government to help them. It's complete chaos. The kids who have already been separated MAY NEVER SEE THEIR PARENTS AGAIN. Nothing he did addresses that.
There are still kid, baby and toddler detention camps where the adults in charge of them are told THEY CANNOT PICK UP THE CHILD TO SOOTHE THEM when they cry or are distressed.
Thousands and thousands of children have already been permanently traumatized and harmed (stress hormones with no parent to soothe impedes proper brain growth). They will have life long problems with learning, focus, trust, ability to bond, etc etc.
Extraordinary damage has already been done. NOTHING HE DID TODAY addresses that in any way whatsoever.
Further, I'm not 100% convinced there isn't some hidden legal trip-wire in what he signed, so that down the line things may get worse in a different way. What if they hold families together "indefinitely" and that turns out to be months or years? Who would know? Will they have access to attorneys? Will they receive due process?
Will they now let journalists into the current camps to film and talk to the kids and observe and report conditions? Will they be given access to attorneys or other advocates who can find their parents or sue the government for the damage that has been inflicted.
The government has not made public a list accounting for all the children. Where are they? What states? Foster homes? (American Airlines and United just announced they asked the government to STOP BOOKING these kids on their flights as they refuse to participate in this policy.)
This will be a decades long issue, created by a vindictive cruel racist and his administration. He gets NO BROWNIE POINTS for reversing his own cruel, needless policy because he didn't do it for the CHILDREN, he did if to take pressure off HIMSELF.
I'm with Robert DiNiro. (bleep) Trump. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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ChefLinda wrote:
| Quote: | He gets NO BROWNIE POINTS for reversing his own cruel, needless policy because he didn't do it for the CHILDREN, he did if to take pressure off HIMSELF.
I'm with Robert DiNiro. (bleep) Trump. |
As I indicated in my post. I didn't think he'd change course. I don't believe his spew about caring. I believe public pressure caused the change. This is the number I called concerning this issue (844)432-0817 posted by StopSeperation.org. This should be a indicator about public pressures impact. Media is doing a great job airing this issue.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Since irony is dead, today is World Refugee Day.
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Heartburn wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | This really represents a terrible moment in U.S. history. The entire rationale is that the means justify the ends. Its like we've learned nothing from history. There are just some lines you never cross regardless of the goal. This is/was one of them. It's really, really sad. |
How long till one of the children displaced dies because of Trump's actions?
I wouldn't blame the international community if they punished us for this.
Reminds me of what Jim Jefferies said over a year ago on Real Time. LINK |
It wouldn't surprise me if one or more haven't already died. If photos aren't allowed what else are they hiding? |
I had this thought last night. You know some have died given the sheer numbers. |
To add to this. Watching MTP Daily. He's reporting a mother died during the trek. Her children were put into the chaotic system. How many cases are there like this?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Bear in mind, part of the recent treatment of immigrants, and the recent police actions against protesters, is likely part of a larger plan to ready a system to go after dissidents. Call it a test run for mass incarceration.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Hector the Pup
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | I don't believe it! Trump blinked. Public pressure took it's toll on the Dumpster.
Of course he's blaming Obama and Democrats.
Trump: Will sign executive order to end separations
LINK |
This isn't over because this only applies going forward.
There are something like 10,000 kids (or more, who knows if they are even keeping track) who've already been separated AND THERE IS NO ADMINISTRATIVE FRAMEWORK IN PLACE TO REUNITE THEM WITH THEIR PARENTS. Parents who have been deported do no know where their children are and there is no contact point in U.S. government to help them. It's complete chaos. The kids who have already been separated MAY NEVER SEE THEIR PARENTS AGAIN. Nothing he did addresses that.
There are still kid, baby and toddler detention camps where the adults in charge of them are told THEY CANNOT PICK UP THE CHILD TO SOOTHE THEM when they cry or are distressed.
Thousands and thousands of children have already been permanently traumatized and harmed (stress hormones with no parent to soothe impedes proper brain growth). They will have life long problems with learning, focus, trust, ability to bond, etc etc.
Extraordinary damage has already been done. NOTHING HE DID TODAY addresses that in any way whatsoever.
Further, I'm not 100% convinced there isn't some hidden legal trip-wire in what he signed, so that down the line things may get worse in a different way. What if they hold families together "indefinitely" and that turns out to be months or years? Who would know? Will they have access to attorneys? Will they receive due process?
Will they now let journalists into the current camps to film and talk to the kids and observe and report conditions? Will they be given access to attorneys or other advocates who can find their parents or sue the government for the damage that has been inflicted.
The government has not made public a list accounting for all the children. Where are they? What states? Foster homes? (American Airlines and United just announced they asked the government to STOP BOOKING these kids on their flights as they refuse to participate in this policy.)
This will be a decades long issue, created by a vindictive cruel racist and his administration. He gets NO BROWNIE POINTS for reversing his own cruel, needless policy because he didn't do it for the CHILDREN, he did if to take pressure off HIMSELF.
I'm with Robert DiNiro. (bleep) Trump. |
Yeah, Trump didn't blink or cave. The Exec Order doesn't fix the current problem, it just appears to prevent separation in the future. But in the truth, the language is full of all kinds of wiggle room that will allow the same activity to continue.
It's a dog and pony show in an attempt to calm the outrage, but really, there's nothing in it that guarantees the cessation of the practice.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Statement from Montanans for Immigrant Justice and Missoula Rises re: Trump’s Pending Executive Order to Stop Separating Families:
Trump has indicated that he will be signing an Executive Order today to stop separating families when they initially cross the border. While this is movement in the right direction, DO NOT BE FOOLED by what this Order does. Here are the facts thus far:
1. Families will not be immediately separated, but they will be held in detention together.
2. Crossing the border “illegally” will no longer be deemed a civil violation, it will be deemed a criminal violation.
3. Because it is a criminal violation the parents will be charged criminally. At that point, their children will be forcibly taken.
4. The Executive Order will provide a provision that families will be expedited through the criminal process. This means that the removal of their children will be expedited.
There is still a need for the Tent Cities. There will still be Tender Age Facilities. This serves as optics for Trump to claim he is not ripping families apart. He is. The GOP are. They are just hiding in in the fine print.
Understand this is a result of the pressure we and others have exerted. WE made this change. But this is not the solution. He anticipates this will temper our moral outrage. Do not let it. This is not close to enough. This is not a victory for those families crossing the border.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | I don't believe it! Trump blinked. Public pressure took it's toll on the Dumpster.
Of course he's blaming Obama and Democrats.
Trump: Will sign executive order to end separations
LINK |
This isn't over because this only applies going forward.
There are something like 10,000 kids (or more, who knows if they are even keeping track) who've already been separated AND THERE IS NO ADMINISTRATIVE FRAMEWORK IN PLACE TO REUNITE THEM WITH THEIR PARENTS. Parents who have been deported do no know where their children are and there is no contact point in U.S. government to help them. It's complete chaos. The kids who have already been separated MAY NEVER SEE THEIR PARENTS AGAIN. Nothing he did addresses that.
There are still kid, baby and toddler detention camps where the adults in charge of them are told THEY CANNOT PICK UP THE CHILD TO SOOTHE THEM when they cry or are distressed.
Thousands and thousands of children have already been permanently traumatized and harmed (stress hormones with no parent to soothe impedes proper brain growth). They will have life long problems with learning, focus, trust, ability to bond, etc etc.
Extraordinary damage has already been done. NOTHING HE DID TODAY addresses that in any way whatsoever.
Further, I'm not 100% convinced there isn't some hidden legal trip-wire in what he signed, so that down the line things may get worse in a different way. What if they hold families together "indefinitely" and that turns out to be months or years? Who would know? Will they have access to attorneys? Will they receive due process?
Will they now let journalists into the current camps to film and talk to the kids and observe and report conditions? Will they be given access to attorneys or other advocates who can find their parents or sue the government for the damage that has been inflicted.
The government has not made public a list accounting for all the children. Where are they? What states? Foster homes? (American Airlines and United just announced they asked the government to STOP BOOKING these kids on their flights as they refuse to participate in this policy.)
This will be a decades long issue, created by a vindictive cruel racist and his administration. He gets NO BROWNIE POINTS for reversing his own cruel, needless policy because he didn't do it for the CHILDREN, he did if to take pressure off HIMSELF.
I'm with Robert DiNiro. (bleep) Trump. |
Yeah, Trump didn't blink or cave. The Exec Order doesn't fix the current problem, it just appears to prevent separation in the future. But in the truth, the language is full of all kinds of wiggle room that will allow the same activity to continue.
It's a dog and pony show in an attempt to calm the outrage, but really, there's nothing in it that guarantees the cessation of the practice. |
It's a North Korea Nuclear Deal kind of order.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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SweetP
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Heartburn wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | This really represents a terrible moment in U.S. history. The entire rationale is that the means justify the ends. Its like we've learned nothing from history. There are just some lines you never cross regardless of the goal. This is/was one of them. It's really, really sad. |
How long till one of the children displaced dies because of Trump's actions?
I wouldn't blame the international community if they punished us for this.
Reminds me of what Jim Jefferies said over a year ago on Real Time. LINK |
It wouldn't surprise me if one or more haven't already died. If photos aren't allowed what else are they hiding? |
I had this thought last night. You know some have died given the sheer numbers. |
To add to this. Watching MTP Daily. He's reporting a mother died during the trek. Her children were put into the chaotic system. How many cases are there like this? |
I saw that, one child was a months-old baby who had been separated from her sister (age not mentioned). Their mom reportedly died on the journey North. This is all information apparently relayed word of mouth from others. Does anyone even know the baby's name? How is that baby going to be reunited with her sibling much less a responsible adult family member? Those kids are in US care now, how and when they are returned to family (if they ever are) is on our govt. and I obviously have little faith in the current administration.
_________________
“There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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SweetP
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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There are already reports of physical and sexual abuse.
With all these vulnerable kids overwhelming the system due to Trump's policy you know bad things going to happen.
Just waiting for an out-break of measles or a seriously sick kid to not get care fast enough. Or an older kid to commit suicide.
Not to mention the mental health impact of this, there is a reason why we don't throw kids into orphanages and work houses anymore. Taking a baby/toddler away from their parents and putting them in a metal cage with other babies and overworked and possibly undertrained caregivers is setting that kid up for a lifetime of issues.
_________________
“There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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HHS just announced they will not be doing ANYTHING to reunite 2,500 children currently in detention with their parents who are now in the court pipeline to be processed and deported.
It's all a sham. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | HHS just announced they will not be doing ANYTHING to reunite 2,500 children currently in detention with their parents who are now in the court pipeline to be processed and deported.
It's all a sham. |
It appears it’s even worse than that. The order actually cracks down even more on immigration enforcement.
Trump didn’t back down. He doubled down.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that executive order is legal either. A president cannot decide what constitutes a civil violation versus a criminal one. That's up to the legislature. What comes next is liberal groups filing lawsuits to block the executive order and Trump saying "see, I tried... nothing is good enough for them."
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | HHS just announced they will not be doing ANYTHING to reunite 2,500 children currently in detention with their parents who are now in the court pipeline to be processed and deported.
It's all a sham. |
It appears it’s even worse than that. The order actually cracks down even more on immigration enforcement.
Trump didn’t back down. He doubled down. |
Here's what I said right after he signed it in my post toward the top of the page:
| Quote: | | Further, I'm not 100% convinced there isn't some hidden legal trip-wire in what he signed, so that down the line things may get worse in a different way. |
So, yeah. I knew he was a lying, evil rat bastard. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I don't think that executive order is legal either. A president cannot decide what constitutes a civil violation versus a criminal one. That's up to the legislature. What comes next is liberal groups filing lawsuits to block the executive order and Trump saying "see, I tried... nothing is good enough for them." |
Thanks LS. I wondered about that.
It’s pretty clear that you are likely right about how he plays this.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I don't think that executive order is legal either. A president cannot decide what constitutes a civil violation versus a criminal one. That's up to the legislature. What comes next is liberal groups filing lawsuits to block the executive order and Trump saying "see, I tried... nothing is good enough for them." |
Governor Cuomo was on Chris Hayes and basically said this exact same. NY is one of the states pursuing a lawsuit. |
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