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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
I'll read it when I have time and in general I agree we've become more divided.
However, what do you do when one tribe is primarily racist and/or supports racist policies and the other tribe is trying protect citizens from racism and harmful racist policies?
The two tribes are not quite equivalent in this scenario. Especially in a country that professes "liberty and justice for all." |
And that's an important distinction at this critical point. I fully believe that both ends of the spectrum have troubling issues with tribalism that are going to be hugely problematic in the future of our political system. I also believe there are problems with tribalism within the tribe on the Democrat end that definitely need to recognized and dealt with.
But because of the very difference in the two ends of the political spectrum that you mention, there is a FAR, FAR bigger issue the needs to be acknowledged and dealt with that affects our immediate future and is going to be catastrophic in our longterm future.
That issue is The Trumpian Nation that has reared its ugly head and is gaining steam.
Trump is not just some mildly annoying politician that we don't see eye to eye with. Trump is a very volatile, destructive man who is gaming the system with the GOP to absolutely destroy the very tenets of this nation's core. The ramifications of which are going to resonate for decades and create problems for future generations that will adversely affect the population of this country across the board whether every member of the population is aware of it, or willing to acknowledge it.
So regardless of what inter-tribalism problems the Left has (and they do as the discourse here indicates) and needs to address, there needs to be a unified stand to defeat Trump and diminish his GOP accomplices' power to dismantle the country.
That's why we need to get past this internal debate about what Dems need to accept and acknowledge about themselves and how we need to treat the various factions on the Left. We can address that in the future.
But for now there can only be one tactic and strategy going forward for those on the Left our even in the middle. Defeat Trump and regain a modicum of decency for our Federal elected officials.
We have no room to bicker about what the best way to do this in the future. We need to band together, defeat the obvious and looming menace that threatens us all. Once we do that, we can go back to debating who and what the best candidates and policies are for our future and if the Democratic Party needs to be re-invented to become more progressive we can do it when we have stopped the political storm that threatens to remove all chance of us being able to do so in the future.
We have one goal. Defeat Trump and erase the GOP stranglehold on the 3 branches of our government, and do so without quibbling about the details. Just do whatever we can to ensure that happens, even if the short term choices may not be entirely palatable in a perfect world. There can be no sitting out. There can be no "protest vote". There can be no "both sides are the same" nonsense.
If anyone disagrees with that, they are the problem preventing the country getting back on track just as much as the Trump and the GOP are the problem for derailing it. Threatening to continue the nation's slide out of spite is not "progressive".
We can't save and rehabilitate the patient if we don't stop it from bleeding to death.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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The Trump administration might have separated a child and parent who are both US citizens
If true, it's the ultimate indictment of Trump's "immigration" policy. It's clearly not about making American's safe. It's about ruining lives of brown people, regardless of where they are from or why they are here.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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He's totally ignorant of national law nevermind international law. Amnesty has been around for a while. All over the world.
Doesn't really matter since he's about to take us out of NATO before getting on his knees before Putin just after getting hosed by Kim. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | He's totally ignorant of national law nevermind international law. Amnesty has been around for a while. All over the world.
Doesn't really matter since he's about to take us out of NATO before getting on his knees before Putin just after getting hosed by Kim. |
You routinely sum things up succinctly and perfectly.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Surfitall
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. What Obama could not overcome would have buried Hillary Clinton, who, almost uniquely in public life, carries the scars of our tribal era. Her campaign made no effort to persuade “deplorables,” just to condemn them, and her core strategy was not to engage those on the fence but to maximize the turnout of her demographic tribe. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | I've been voting since I was 18. In all those years, the person I voted for in the primary won less than half the time. But I always voted for the Democratic winner (with one exception*) because even though I didn't get my first choice, I knew they were 100 times better than voting for a Republican.
*I voted Independent ONCE, the Democrat lost and I regretted it ever since. And I NEVER threw my vote away again.
If you throw your vote away again, there might not be a recognizable Democracy again in your lifetime. We may not even have one by next week.
Voting is your civic duty. It's not an optional exercise like voting for your favorite new American Idol.
The consequences of not voting could cost people their lives. It already is.
We have babies in cages, people. Get serious.
This isn't the Bachelor where you need to be sweet talked into your pick. If you don't know the difference between the parties by now, you should be embarrassed to admit it in public and wear a bag over your head for not voting. |
sorry, i refuse to think in this manner. its as if people forget they actually have an actual vote.
"well i guess i will just vote for whoever everyone else is voting for cause otherwise if i dont we will lose to the other side."
you do realize if everyone stops thinking along these lines they may actually vote for someone who actually has the best policies for most of us vs some decent policies here and there and a bunch of stuff that wont move the needle.
CL. listen, doing it your way did not work did it? NO
So I'll ask this simple question. Why would YOU not try to do it differently? I'm not talking about in the general . I'm talking about during the primaries.
This is the strategy. If by chance there is another ultra left dem running vs an establishment dem and you hear the fringe crazy leftees talking about we wont show up if we dont get our guy. are you willing to suck it up and vote for their guy to win the Primaries? simple Yes or No? |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. What Obama could not overcome would have buried Hillary Clinton, who, almost uniquely in public life, carries the scars of our tribal era. Her campaign made no effort to persuade “deplorables,” just to condemn them, and her core strategy was not to engage those on the fence but to maximize the turnout of her demographic tribe. |
There's a reason no moves were made to persuade his base. It's immovable. No single person will ever convert a racist bigot antisemite xenophobe or misogynist. They'd no sooner have voted for a woman than they would a black man or a Jew. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. |
Wrong, it's ALL a Trump problem at this point.
It's unfortunate that seemingly intelligent people can't identify the direct threat and continually focus on diversionary issues to everyone's detriment.
| Quote: | | What Obama could not overcome would have buried Hillary Clinton, who, almost uniquely in public life, carries the scars of our tribal era. Her campaign made no effort to persuade “deplorables,” just to condemn them, and her core strategy was not to engage those on the fence but to maximize the turnout of her demographic tribe. |
The amount of hypocrisy in your post is staggering. You keep denouncing "tribalism" and yet you engage in tribalism in the most destructive way possible. Your comments epitomize tribalism, and pathetically you further the dynamic you claim you are against. You are so focused on your very own specific tribe that you ignore the obvious threat to your own well being. You'd rather fight with your own than unite against a common cause.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | I've been voting since I was 18. In all those years, the person I voted for in the primary won less than half the time. But I always voted for the Democratic winner (with one exception*) because even though I didn't get my first choice, I knew they were 100 times better than voting for a Republican.
*I voted Independent ONCE, the Democrat lost and I regretted it ever since. And I NEVER threw my vote away again.
If you throw your vote away again, there might not be a recognizable Democracy again in your lifetime. We may not even have one by next week.
Voting is your civic duty. It's not an optional exercise like voting for your favorite new American Idol.
The consequences of not voting could cost people their lives. It already is.
We have babies in cages, people. Get serious.
This isn't the Bachelor where you need to be sweet talked into your pick. If you don't know the difference between the parties by now, you should be embarrassed to admit it in public and wear a bag over your head for not voting. |
sorry, i refuse to think in this manner. its as if people forget they actually have an actual vote.
"well i guess i will just vote for whoever everyone else is voting for cause otherwise if i dont we will lose to the other side."
you do realize if everyone stops thinking along these lines they may actually vote for someone who actually has the best policies for most of us vs some decent policies here and there and a bunch of stuff that wont move the needle.
CL. listen, doing it your way did not work did it? NO
So I'll ask this simple question. Why would YOU not try to do it differently? I'm not talking about in the general . I'm talking about during the primaries.
This is the strategy. If by chance there is another ultra left dem running vs an establishment dem and you hear the fringe crazy leftees talking about we wont show up if we dont get our guy. are you willing to suck it up and vote for their guy to win the Primaries? simple Yes or No? |
No, because at the end of the day, you will never achieve a decent and stable result by giving in to insane terrorists.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | I've been voting since I was 18. In all those years, the person I voted for in the primary won less than half the time. But I always voted for the Democratic winner (with one exception*) because even though I didn't get my first choice, I knew they were 100 times better than voting for a Republican.
*I voted Independent ONCE, the Democrat lost and I regretted it ever since. And I NEVER threw my vote away again.
If you throw your vote away again, there might not be a recognizable Democracy again in your lifetime. We may not even have one by next week.
Voting is your civic duty. It's not an optional exercise like voting for your favorite new American Idol.
The consequences of not voting could cost people their lives. It already is.
We have babies in cages, people. Get serious.
This isn't the Bachelor where you need to be sweet talked into your pick. If you don't know the difference between the parties by now, you should be embarrassed to admit it in public and wear a bag over your head for not voting. |
sorry, i refuse to think in this manner. its as if people forget they actually have an actual vote.
"well i guess i will just vote for whoever everyone else is voting for cause otherwise if i dont we will lose to the other side."
you do realize if everyone stops thinking along these lines they may actually vote for someone who actually has the best policies for most of us vs some decent policies here and there and a bunch of stuff that wont move the needle.
CL. listen, doing it your way did not work did it? NO
So I'll ask this simple question. Why would YOU not try to do it differently? I'm not talking about in the general . I'm talking about during the primaries.
This is the strategy. If by chance there is another ultra left dem running vs an establishment dem and you hear the fringe crazy leftees talking about we wont show up if we dont get our guy. are you willing to suck it up and vote for their guy to win the Primaries? simple Yes or No? |
No, because at the end of the day, you will never achieve a decent and stable result by giving in to insane terrorists. |
At the end of the day, you'll never achieve a decent and stable conversation by engaging with pnp/splashmtn.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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^ anyone know how to get into this Russian bot thing and if it pays well?  |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | ^ anyone know how to get into this Russian bot thing and if it pays well? |
It's paying well for Trump and Putin . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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| Back to top |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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well...they looked like foreigners |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | ^ anyone know how to get into this Russian bot thing and if it pays well? |
It's paying well for Trump and Putin . . . |
seems to be putting a dent in the unemployment numbers here in the US  |
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Goldenwest
Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2802
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | ^ anyone know how to get into this Russian bot thing and if it pays well? |
It's paying well for Trump and Putin . . . |
seems to be putting a dent in the unemployment numbers here in the US |
yeah, fake as hell unemployment numbers |
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Surfitall
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. |
Wrong, it's ALL a Trump problem at this point.
It's unfortunate that seemingly intelligent people can't identify the direct threat and continually focus on diversionary issues to everyone's detriment.
|
More relevant response from the article since it appears you aren’t reading it which accurately portrays the problem from both the left and the right.
“One of the great attractions of tribalism is that you don’t actually have to think very much. All you need to know on any given subject is which side you’re on. You pick up signals from everyone around you, you slowly winnow your acquaintances to those who will reinforce your worldview, a tribal leader calls the shots, and everything slips into place. After a while, your immersion in tribal loyalty makes the activities of another tribe not just alien but close to incomprehensible.” |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. |
Wrong, it's ALL a Trump problem at this point.
It's unfortunate that seemingly intelligent people can't identify the direct threat and continually focus on diversionary issues to everyone's detriment.
|
More relevant response from the article since it appears you aren’t reading it which accurately portrays the problem from both the left and the right.
“One of the great attractions of tribalism is that you don’t actually have to think very much. All you need to know on any given subject is which side you’re on. You pick up signals from everyone around you, you slowly winnow your acquaintances to those who will reinforce your worldview, a tribal leader calls the shots, and everything slips into place. After a while, your immersion in tribal loyalty makes the activities of another tribe not just alien but close to incomprehensible.” |
Ironic too see you say that considering your clearly aren't reading this thread. I clearly stated that I agree with the articles premise and even pointed out an additional nuance. I stated that as true as the article may be, there is a more pressing issue that needs to be addressed.
It's also ironic that as you parrot quotes from the article, you engage in the very thing it is discussing. You are so focused on pressing your narrative in the big picture, you aren't thinking about the pressing issue that needs to addressed. Thinking involves problem solving. Problem solving requires prioritization.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | I've been voting since I was 18. In all those years, the person I voted for in the primary won less than half the time. But I always voted for the Democratic winner (with one exception*) because even though I didn't get my first choice, I knew they were 100 times better than voting for a Republican.
*I voted Independent ONCE, the Democrat lost and I regretted it ever since. And I NEVER threw my vote away again.
If you throw your vote away again, there might not be a recognizable Democracy again in your lifetime. We may not even have one by next week.
Voting is your civic duty. It's not an optional exercise like voting for your favorite new American Idol.
The consequences of not voting could cost people their lives. It already is.
We have babies in cages, people. Get serious.
This isn't the Bachelor where you need to be sweet talked into your pick. If you don't know the difference between the parties by now, you should be embarrassed to admit it in public and wear a bag over your head for not voting. |
sorry, i refuse to think in this manner. its as if people forget they actually have an actual vote.
"well i guess i will just vote for whoever everyone else is voting for cause otherwise if i dont we will lose to the other side."
you do realize if everyone stops thinking along these lines they may actually vote for someone who actually has the best policies for most of us vs some decent policies here and there and a bunch of stuff that wont move the needle.
CL. listen, doing it your way did not work did it? NO
So I'll ask this simple question. Why would YOU not try to do it differently? I'm not talking about in the general . I'm talking about during the primaries.
This is the strategy. If by chance there is another ultra left dem running vs an establishment dem and you hear the fringe crazy leftees talking about we wont show up if we dont get our guy. are you willing to suck it up and vote for their guy to win the Primaries? simple Yes or No? |
No, because at the end of the day, you will never achieve a decent and stable result by giving in to insane terrorists. |
At the end of the day, you'll never achieve a decent and stable conversation by engaging with pnp/splashmtn. |
and there you have it surf. what did i tell you would happen when you can't go logic for logic in a conversation. they then attack your character.
DMR's idea did not work. he would rather vote shame the fringe, instead of admit his way did not pan out the way he thought it would. you know who dmr sounds like? Hillary's compaign. thats who. the same people who most assumed they would win and let this idiot we know as trump beat you.
You're not being strategic just by doing what has always been done even when it doesnt work. you can't shame people to vote for someone or certain TYPES of people they REFUSE to vote for. But what you can do is look at the policies.
Were Bernie's policies so crazy that DMR couldnt get behind them? if the answer is yes. than DMR has every right to not vote for bern in the primaries. But if by chance bernie's policies does align with his or most of them do as he stated in reverse. Then the moment he realizes that the fringe REFUSE to vote for hil, DMR should change his primary vote to Bernie. Why? because thats how you win more of the swing states.
I'll say it again. its real funny how not one of you on the other side of the think have addressed the swing state logic I posed to you. all you guys keep doing is shouting about I wont be held hostage. Ummmm, thats the exact same thing the fringe were saying to you and they REFUSED to be held hostage by fear of the boogieman across the aisle. Your way did not work. so stop doing the same thing expecting a different result. it doesnt make logical sense.
See, some are worried about convincing republicans to come over to the blue side. when in reality you dont need them. all you need is the youth and the fringe leftees to step out the house and into the booth. The ball is in your court DMR and those like you. Are you going to keep doing it YOUR way that did not work and hasnt worked as far as congress is concerned, or are you going to switch it up? |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Can our democracy survive tribalism? I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it is an incredibly disturbing and also brilliant article from NY Magazine about what may be our greatest vulnerability as a nation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/can-democracy-survive-tribalism.html
I love this quote: In our tribal certainties, we often distort what we actually believe in the quiet of our hearts, and fail to see what aspects of truth the other tribe may grasp. |
Another great quote from the article:
How to unwind this increasingly dangerous dysfunction? It’s not easy to be optimistic with Trump as president. And given his malignant narcissism, despotic instincts, absence of empathy, and constant incitement of racial and xenophobic hatred, it’s extremely hard not to be tribal in return. There is no divide he doesn’t want to deepen, no conflict he doesn’t want to start or intensify. How on earth can we not “resist”?
But we should not delude ourselves that this is all a Trump problem. |
Wrong, it's ALL a Trump problem at this point.
It's unfortunate that seemingly intelligent people can't identify the direct threat and continually focus on diversionary issues to everyone's detriment.
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More relevant response from the article since it appears you aren’t reading it which accurately portrays the problem from both the left and the right.
“One of the great attractions of tribalism is that you don’t actually have to think very much. All you need to know on any given subject is which side you’re on. You pick up signals from everyone around you, you slowly winnow your acquaintances to those who will reinforce your worldview, a tribal leader calls the shots, and everything slips into place. After a while, your immersion in tribal loyalty makes the activities of another tribe not just alien but close to incomprehensible.” |
Ironic too see you say that considering your clearly aren't reading this thread. I clearly stated that I agree with the articles premise and even pointed out an additional nuance. I stated that as true as the article may be, there is a more pressing issue that needs to be addressed.
It's also ironic that as you parrot quotes from the article, you engage in the very thing it is discussing. You are so focused on pressing your narrative in the big picture, you aren't thinking about the pressing issue that needs to addressed. Thinking involves problem solving. Problem solving requires prioritization. |
There is no more pressing issue than making sure the dem party can bring all types of dems out to vote in ALL elections not just the general.
You think trump is the worse thing on earth? He isnt. this is not a dictatorship. The only reason he's allowed to do what he's doing is due to him having a red congress that wont stop him because they are in cahoots or too afraid of their racist constituents to do so.
You want to stop the most pressing issues at hand? Take back congress and the white house. flush out these nut republicans from these swing states, and lush em out locally.
republicans chose trump not because he had racist policies they all do. thats the republican party in a nutshell, racist policies to cover up the fact they are going to fleece the crap out of the low to mid income whites that vote for them. but those voters chose trump because he was not the usual suspect. he was different. that is one thing that both sides had in common. many people in america want something different. they want something that isnt the usual establishment people in charge. or the corporate politicians in charge. This is why when you have a chance to go with a bernie type, you do so in this climate. if it was 1992. I would say dont do that. but we're in a different place now.
stop ignoring what is right in front of you.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/30/democratic-party-losing-support-of-young-voters-sa/
^^FACTS
| Quote: | A massive poll of young voters has some inconvenient news for Democrats.
“Enthusiasm for the Democratic Party is waning among millennials as its candidates head into the crucial midterm congressional elections,” according to a Reuters/Ipsos survey of some 11,000 voters ages 18-34 conducted during the first three months of the year.
“Their support for Democrats over Republicans for Congress slipped by about 9 percentage points over the past two years, to 46 percent overall. And they increasingly say the Republican Party is a better steward of the economy,” the poll analysis said.
And while two-thirds of the respondents are not especially fond of President Trump, they also said this distaste does not extend to all Republicans, or translate into automatic votes for Democratic candidates in the midterm elections.
“That presents a potential problem for Democrats who have come to count on millennials as a core constituency — and will need all the loyalty they can get to achieve a net gain of 23 seats to capture control of the U.S. House of Representatives in November,” the analysis said.
The findings also suggested millennials were open to third-party candidates — or sitting out the election and not voting at all. The poll also found a notable shift in a certain demographic. |
actually https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-millennials/democrats-lose-ground-with-millennials-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1I10YH
is a better version of the previous article with graphs. |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
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one more for you DMR and those that think like you from the dem party.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/voter-turnout-2016-elections
^^notice, there is no splashmtn to attack. those are not my words. those are the words of a writer for pbs.org.
What does voter turnout tell us about the 2016 election?
| Quote: | Estimates show more than 58 percent of eligible voters went to the polls during the 2016 election, nearly breaking even with the turnout rate set during the last presidential election in 2012, even as the final tallies in states like California continue to be calculated, according to statistics collected by the U.S. Elections Project.
But among those figures were stark contrasts in key states that helped swing the election to Trump — in Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan and elsewhere — indicating the President-elect’s leap from long-shot candidate to the most powerful political position in the world may have happened in part because of apathy toward Hillary Clinton’s candidacy, especially among the Democratic base, several political scientists and organizations monitoring voter turnout told the PBS NewsHour.
While Clinton is leading the popular vote by more than 1.5 million over Trump as of Sunday, she trails President Obama’s 2012 totals by more than 2 million ballots — a chasm that may have cost her the election, said David Becker, co-founder of the Center for Election and Innovation and Research.
“Several million voters didn’t come out to vote,” Becker said. “Which is telling me that this idea of the Trump wave, a huge number of voters shifting over to Trump, is certainly not the story.”
Nationally, the number of people who voted for Trump were only slightly ahead of those who supported the last Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, in 2012.
But Becker said that while turnout in purple states like Florida and Pennsylvania had a slight uptick this year, at least 19 other states saw lower turnout rates compared with 2012, a scenario that is antithetical to presidential-year voting that tends to increase each cycle when an incumbent is not a part of the race.
According to Becker, turnout rates dropped by 1.3 percent in Iowa, 3 percent in Wisconsin and nearly 4 percent in Ohio in 2016, a combination that became a death knell for Clinton’s presidential hopes in areas where Obama performed well during his two terms..... |
| Quote: | According to a Pew Research Center analysis, Trump and Romney shared about the same number of white voters during the last two presidential elections, and Clinton captured a percentage of women close to Obama. Clinton also did not perform as well as Obama with core Democratic blocs, including blue collar people.
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“I don’t know if it’s so much this fleeing of the blue collar people to Donald Trump,” Alexander said. “But I think there’s a lot of blue collar individuals that the Democrats typically rely on. Those are the folks who didn’t show up.” |
So again, we have old articles, new articles, all pointing to the same thing. are the DMR's of the party willing to switch things up in order to win the white house and win congress, as well as state side/local government? or are you just hell bent on staying on your side and not budging? if thats the case, you are the same terrorist you are calling the fringe. in addition, you are not about making progress or being strategic. because it will take strategic thinking to take back the white house, and congress, and states, local governments(especially in the swing states). you might be able to fear some extra dems to vote dem due to trump. but what about congress? we saw what they did to obama. No to everything he proposed even when it agreed with their own ideas. so that means they need to be changed out too. you wont scare people enough to vote outside of the general. you have to get real life voters to turn out for those elections. not just presidential votes. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times |
thats why posted rueters. you can find legit info from shaky sources as long as you can corroborate the story with a legit source. i just did that with Rueters.
I'll add another.
http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-democrats-losing-ground-with-millennials-in-bad-sign-for-2018-2018-4
business insider.
you get the point. its a real story. with real data. not fake news from a shady website or shady news source. but thanks for pointing that out. about the washington times. i dont read the w times. it was just an article on their that i saw on multiple sites. so i just chose the first one since i knew i could trust that info THIS TIME.
you have to remember, there's two types of shady sites.
there are the ones that promote fake news. or those that promote bias news. This site is promoting bias news this time. its real news, but its a one sided news. |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Splash, if you’re going to claim logic, if it requires the full group to beat the opponent that is equally horrifying to all, isn’t it on the smaller group to fall in with the larger from a logical standpoint? Why does the overwhelming majority logically need to bow down to a tiny fringe (and we are talking a single digit percentage of non GOP voters here)? Why are the ideas not good enough to sell? Why does it require antidemocratic “give us everything or we will kill us all” threats? Good ideas should be able to win. You’re already seeing victories for progressives showing up to run for offices. You’re not entitled to the presidential candidate the ten percent choose. Build a majority and we will happily vote for your candidate. I know I will.
We. Have. To. Stop. Opposing. Each. Other. In. The. General. Full stop, no it’s ands or buts. You win the primary I vote for your guy, I win, you vote for mine. We can argue all we want in the primaries. We can have these angst filled discussions and cathartic rage fests. But our survival, literally in many cases, depends on all of us showing up and voting as a block.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChefLinda
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Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
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If Bernie had won the primary, I would have voted for him without question and with no reservations over Trump. That doesn't mean I agreed with him on everything or wouldn't have pushed him where needed if he had won. But would I have sat home when I knew Trump was the alternative? No. Way. In. Hell.
Same with Obama in 2008. I did not vote for him in the primary. Was I upset my candidate didn't prevail? Yes. Did I sit and pout? No. I got behind Obama. Then after he won, women pushed for their issues, gays pushed for their issues, etc. But you do that AFTER your party has power.
We aren't asking for something we haven't already given of ourselves. Only this time our Democracy is literally at stake. |
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