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Aussiesuede
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 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| JamezAmp wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | I'm curious what the biggest issue is here. Is it that the Russians did it? Is it that anyone did it? Or that the Republicans weren't hacked as well? Because honestly, the only tragedy about any of this is that the Republican party's crimes weren't exposed as well. I'm glad the crimes that the DNC committed were exposed, and I don't care who exposed it. Just like I don't care about the character or motives of Edward Snowden, what he did was a good and socially beneficial thing. The Russians did us a solid, it's just they couldn't or wouldn't finish the job by doing it to the RNC as well. I hope all the countries in the world work to expose the truths about our political system. Hell, I think we should donate money to the cause. Expose these corrupt (bleep), to the point that both of these corrupt organizations collapse. |
I think that the big issue is that we (the USA) didn’t do it. We have been meddling in world wide elections for decades so how dare the Russians meddle in ours. There hasn’t been similar outrage over labor and big business impacting our elections. |
Dumbest thing I have ever read on the Internet© |
Sleep tight in your self prescribed cocoon |
When have big business and labor unions shot planes out of the sky and annexed land Sudetenland style? Go back to Russia |
On May 24th, A plane owned by the US Based Aviation Development Corporation ordered a plane containing Us Missionaries Roni Bowers and her infant daughter flying over Peru be shot down; killing both of the innocents. Sorry, couldn't resist. 
And let's not forget that our own military had a "big Oops" when the the Navies USS Vincennes shot down that Iranian Jetliner in the late 80's killing about 300 civilians.
Bottom line is neither the US, nor any government, is in the game of trying to proactively shoot down Civilian aircraft for sport. Probably a good idea to stick closer to the real things that separate the two societies as opposed to the extreme stuff on the fringes as both have made mistakes whilst it was unlikely the specific goal of either in those mishaps...
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Our CIC has lost his ever loving mind. LINK
‘That’s going to be special’: Tensions rise as Trump invites Putin to Washington
LINK
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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VicXLakers
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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...so tough on Russia
On September 8, 2017 President Trump, in a memorandum, delegated authority to alter the financial sanctions in this act to the Secretary of the Treasury, and the issue of visas to the Secretary of State.[46]
Magnitsky Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act
Trump campaign–Russian meeting
Main article: Trump campaign–Russian meetings
In June 2016, a Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, who was hired to lobby against the Magnitsky Act in the US, set up a Trump campaign–Russia meeting with Donald Trump, Jr., purportedly to discuss altering the Russian Duma's sanctions against American adoption of Russian children along with other alleged illegal activities. On July 11, 2017, Reuters US reported that at the meeting "[Russia] offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to [Trump Jr.'s] father".[31] Donald Trump Jr. insisted that Veselnitskaya did not reveal any damaging information about Secretary Clinton, contrary to what his correspondence had suggested. Trump Jr. subsequently released to the public via Twitter his personal records and correspondence between the Trump campaign team and Rob Goldstone, a longtime business partner and friend of Trump Sr. who actively represents several Russian interests and who had first pitched the meeting to Trump Jr.[32] |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: |
Im only supporting leaks of facts about wrongdoing. Any suggestion of me wanting Russians as "overlords" is an exaggeration. |
You do realize that the two are intertwined? You aren't getting one without the other. It's like asking the mob for a favor. You get the favor, but you are also forever entwined with the mob, who is going to extract far more from you than you are ever going to see in return.
This idea that the Russians are simply going to hand over your desired dirt on the DNC without consequences is completely naive.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: |
Ok, so calling the dnc criminals for subverting the democratic process is zealous hyperbole, but saying this is 9/11 level warfare isnt? |
Not really. perhaps you're not aware of the implications of what the Russians have been doing which not only include influencing the election, but working to subvert our infrastructure. The Russians may not have killed thousands of people with a stunning act of terrorism, but they have certainly attacked the US's stability, which in the long run could have far more dramatic consequences.
But if you have evidence of any criminal acts by the DNC in regards to the election, by all means present it. I may have missed it. But I tend to believe it existed, Trump would have already served it up.
[quote]Bernie runs as a democrat, he's glomming on, he runs as an independent, he's splitting the ticket. This just boils down to blaming him for not being Clinton,[/.quote]
Not at all. It just points out that he worked the system himself. The whole "Bernie's a Victim" crap doesn't pass the BS test.
| Quote: | | so he should go (bleep) himself, despite being legitimately popular enough to beat Clinton and Trump in a fair election. |
Pretty bold claim considering he didn't even get past the Primary.
| Quote: | | They're under no obligation to be democratic? Then the primaries are (bleep) meaningless, and so is the presidential election. |
What do you see as the "obligation" of the DNC? No political party is perfect. They gave Bernie a seat at the table even though he's decidedly not a member of the party.
| Quote: | | Personal disappointment? You mean like the disappointment that Trump won, therefore the whole election was a sham? Please, if I'm compromised by disappointment, then so are you. This is all an attempt to put the blame anywhere other than the DNC for their own awful campaign and loss. |
There's a lot of blame to go around on many counts for Trump's win. It's unfortunate that some people are so focused on their sense of loss that they have lost sight of the consequences of Trump's win.
| Quote: | | Now they're doubling down on their losing strategy by sticking with establishment candidates and being the not Trump party, rather than a progressive party. |
Look, I'm on board with a progressive left. But as many, many people have pointed out in so many places, expecting a minority agenda to be forcefully propelled to the forefront without the grassroots effort to establish itself is unrealistic. And I am a big supporter of trying to overcome the obstacles in that effort. But the obstinate attitude that it's my way or else doesn't serve that path. And more importantly, it completely derails any "progress" in that regard.
[quote]I apreciate your concern dmr, you know I love you. However, two points, me being staunchly in favor of more information about our systems wrongdoing does not make me pro trump, or permissive of trump. [/.quote]
Of course it does when that effort furthers Trump's efforts.
| Quote: | | If the truth gets in the way of a victory, then that victory is undeserved. |
You really want to get into a discussion of undeserved and damaging victories?
| Quote: | | Also, if you want to look out for my interests, then do everything you can to institute Medicare for all. That's what matters most to my own particular safety, and all transpeople. Nothing kills transpeople like them not getting the medical help they need. Dysphoria is the big killer here. I'm in this study right now, and everytime I'm asked what I think needs to change to help transpeople, I say universal health care above all else. There are lots of things that we need help in, but if we don't have the medical help we need, then we're (bleep). Bernies brand of progressivism is the only brand fighting for what we need, and I don't take candidates like that being cheated lightly, and neither should you. |
Again, I'm all for the goals that you are pursuing. It's not those goals I take issue with. It's the self destructive path that some people choose to pursue those goals. Being punitive towards the party that has a better chance of realizing those goals while enabling the party that is guaranteed to crush them is an asinine route.
| Quote: | | The popumist left taking over the democratic party is the only way the people will win. It's the only way minorities win in general, as well. |
I love your passion for your beliefs. And I share your beliefs. But you are letting those beliefs cloud your vision of what the current reality is. You're fighting the wrong monster, and the monster you're fighting is the one that's the biggest threat.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Almost everything that happened the past two weeks was layed out by the Clinton campaign in this video from Oct. 15, 2016:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1020152927305064448
Last edited by ChefLinda on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| They sure did. At the time, it was pretty obvious Trump had close connections with Russia. My brother voted for Trump and when I brought this up back then he said, “What’s so bad with improving relations with Russia?”. I should ask him what he thinks now that all this additional news has come out and will report back. |
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Huskers
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | WASHINGTON — President Trump’s longtime lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Mr. Trump two months before the presidential election in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html
Now just imagine all the other recordings that the FBI have now thanks to Cohen. |
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Heartburn
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Remember, the Trump/Putin summit was Monday. What a week! It's exhausting.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Heartburn wrote: | | Remember, the Trump/Putin summit was Monday. What a week! It's exhausting. |
Trump's fake-presidency is like dog years. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Heartburn wrote: | | Remember, the Trump/Putin summit was Monday. What a week! It's exhausting. |
Trump's fake-presidency is like dog years. |
I honestly can't look at him or hear his voice anymore. I applaud those that want to be as informed as they can be, and I do what I can from a bit of a distance, but I think following the day to day happenings of this Preaidency is unhealthy.
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Huskers wrote: | | Quote: | | WASHINGTON — President Trump’s longtime lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Mr. Trump two months before the presidential election in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html
Now just imagine all the other recordings that the FBI have now thanks to Cohen. |
Fake news. He never met her. That conversation was purely hypothetical. It wasn't even Trump on the phone. It was all special effects. It was really a conversation between Hillary and Obama with voice synthesizers to make them sound like Trump and Cohen. Let's not dwell on trivial things when we just launched missiles at Montenegro.
I hear you. Thoughts and prayers. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Heartburn wrote: | | Remember, the Trump/Putin summit was Monday. What a week! It's exhausting. |
Trump's fake-presidency is like dog years. |
I honestly can't look at him or hear his voice anymore. I applaud those that want to be as informed as they can be, and I do what I can from a bit of a distance, but I think following the day to day happenings of this Preaidency is unhealthy. |
You're not alone. I seldom hear him complete a presser. His facial expressions and perch mouth are disgusting. His lies are so blatant and easily proven to be false yet his base isn't shrinking is disturbing.
C'mon Bob, drop the other shoe.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Heartburn wrote: | | Remember, the Trump/Putin summit was Monday. What a week! It's exhausting. |
Trump's fake-presidency is like dog years. |
I honestly can't look at him or hear his voice anymore. I applaud those that want to be as informed as they can be, and I do what I can from a bit of a distance, but I think following the day to day happenings of this Preaidency is unhealthy. |
^^Legit. He is a national health concern for people with a conscience
I have only listened to him maybe three or four times. It makes me physically ill. Not my thoughts doing it to me.. Just an autonomic response.
Even describing him causes illness... |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | They sure did. At the time, it was pretty obvious Trump had close connections with Russia. My brother voted for Trump and when I brought this up back then he said, “What’s so bad with improving relations with Russia?”. I should ask him what he thinks now that all this additional news has come out and will report back. |
If he's like about 4 of 5 GOP voters surveyed, it won't matter to him a bit. Everything is permitted to the leader of their tribe.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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That has been the goal of all the moves of this president thus far (aside from obstructing the investigation): just make it so there is nothing Mueller could charge him with that the base will care about.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Saw an excellent point made. If trump is truly a non participant in Russian meddling and he denies it because he thinks it diminishes his win, that doesn’t explain why he is then cozy with Putin, or why he takes Putin’s desires and implements them, attacking allies, breaking down alliances, etc. that’s not something an innocent guy who wants people to believe he won on his own acts. Quite the opposite.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Dominator
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Huskers wrote: | | Quote: | | WASHINGTON — President Trump’s longtime lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Mr. Trump two months before the presidential election in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html
Now just imagine all the other recordings that the FBI have now thanks to Cohen. |
Fake news. He never met her. That conversation was purely hypothetical. It wasn't even Trump on the phone. It was all special effects. It was really a conversation between Hillary and Obama with voice synthesizers to make them sound like Trump and Cohen. Let's not dwell on trivial things when we just launched missiles at Montenegro.
I hear you. Thoughts and prayers. |
It's pretty funny that Trump relies on the term "fake news" so much, while being in cahoots with the National Enquirer, which is actual fake news. |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Saw an excellent point made. If trump is truly a non participant in Russian meddling and he denies it because he thinks it diminishes his win, that doesn’t explain why he is then cozy with Putin, or why he takes Putin’s desires and implements them, attacking allies, breaking down alliances, etc. that’s not something an innocent guy who wants people to believe he won on his own acts. Quite the opposite. |
it really was/is much more than meddling...that's trumps term.
It's more like an all out attack at this point.
Microsoft security executive reveals Russians tried to hack 3 congressional candidates
Another sign the Kremlin doesn’t seem to be giving up.
By Jen Kirbyjen.kirby [AT] vox.com Jul 20, 2018, 3:20pm EDT
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/20/17595910/russia-hacking-congressional-candidates-microsoft-aspen
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Saw an excellent point made. If trump is truly a non participant in Russian meddling and he denies it because he thinks it diminishes his win, that doesn’t explain why he is then cozy with Putin, or why he takes Putin’s desires and implements them, attacking allies, breaking down alliances, etc. that’s not something an innocent guy who wants people to believe he won on his own acts. Quite the opposite. |
Pod Save America brought up a similar point.
If Trump doesn't like to admit the interference in 2016's election because it diminishes his win. Why was he fine saying the hacking/interference could've been China or a fat guy in a basement?
He acknowledged the interference early on. He just always fought the notion that it was Russia specifically. Whenever Russia has been brought up, Trump obfuscates and defends them by putting down our own country. Similar to what Bynum was saying in the last couple pages.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:22 am Post subject: |
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We need to stop calling it "Russian meddling" and call it what it was: an act of Cyber-warfare committed by Russia against the United States.
This was not hackers vs DNC.
Or some hactivists trying to mess around.
This was a years long, coordinated military attack on the United Sates directed by the President of Russia and carried out by the equivalent of their CIA.
And. It. Is. Still. Going. On.
And the president and the GOP congress are doing nothing to protect us. |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: |
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The good news with all the Trump insanity is that the Progressive movement continues to gain steam...in Kansas of all places!
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/07/20/proving-kansas-hungry-democratic-socialism-sanders-and-ocasio-cortez-sold-out-rally
Doing this rally in Kansas is actually the point. The article quotes Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth who says, “I don’t think you can go too far to the left and still win the Midwest.” Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez want to prove the corporate Dems wrong.
Here is Ocasio-Cortez’ tweet:
Wow - our Unite for America rally in Kansas tomorrow outgrew the Orpheum Theater in 10 hours!
We have moved to Century II to accommodate as many people as possible (up to 5,000).
When we fight fearlessly for working class Americans, we can change our country for the better.
Whatever you do corporate Dems, don’t bend your party to the left to take advantage of all this enthusiasm. I think we’ll be much better off continuing with the corporatist Democratic policies that have resulted in the Dems losing every single branch of government because everyone is now united by hating Trump. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | The good news with all the Trump insanity is that the Progressive movement continues to gain steam...in Kansas of all places!
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/07/20/proving-kansas-hungry-democratic-socialism-sanders-and-ocasio-cortez-sold-out-rally
Doing this rally in Kansas is actually the point. The article quotes Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth who says, “I don’t think you can go too far to the left and still win the Midwest.” Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez want to prove the corporate Dems wrong.
Here is Ocasio-Cortez’ tweet:
Wow - our Unite for America rally in Kansas tomorrow outgrew the Orpheum Theater in 10 hours!
We have moved to Century II to accommodate as many people as possible (up to 5,000).
When we fight fearlessly for working class Americans, we can change our country for the better.
Whatever you do corporate Dems, don’t bend your party to the left to take advantage of all this enthusiasm. I think we’ll be much better off continuing with the corporatist Democratic policies that have resulted in the Dems losing every single branch of government because everyone is now united by hating Trump. |
I think there’s truth here, but spoiled by a lack of a larger view of the truth. Notice how the progressive lost in the Virginia governors race (and how Bernie and company pulled their support in the general), and the turnout and win was massive. It’s not all one or the other, and everyone who is not a hard core socialist is a “corporatist”. These are false, divisive labels, and if you look at the special election and primaries thus far, are also a case of cherry picking. There’s a broad coalition from center left to far left, and people all along that continuum are going to win in various places. We need to embrace them all and win, and then start wrangling about what the coalition can and will do.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Saw an excellent point made. If trump is truly a non participant in Russian meddling and he denies it because he thinks it diminishes his win, that doesn’t explain why he is then cozy with Putin, or why he takes Putin’s desires and implements them, attacking allies, breaking down alliances, etc. that’s not something an innocent guy who wants people to believe he won on his own acts. Quite the opposite. |
it really was/is much more than meddling...that's trumps term.
It's more like an all out attack at this point.
Microsoft security executive reveals Russians tried to hack 3 congressional candidates
Another sign the Kremlin doesn’t seem to be giving up.
By Jen Kirbyjen.kirby -at- vox.com Jul 20, 2018, 3:20pm EDT
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/20/17595910/russia-hacking-congressional-candidates-microsoft-aspen
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For every three or four attempts maybe o e success?
How many sordid blackmails has Trump helped them facilitate now that he has dirt on everyone |
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