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VicXLakers
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject:

trump...not so tough on China either

Trump’s easing penalties on a Chinese company that sold to North Korea and Iran. Republicans are letting him do it.
Congressional Republicans are going to let Trump ease up on ZTE after all.
By Emily Stewart Jul 21, 2018, 3:40pm EDT


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/21/17598488/trump-zte-marco-rubio-ban
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:

Whatever you do corporate Dems, don’t bend your party to the left to take advantage of all this enthusiasm. I think we’ll be much better off continuing with the corporatist Democratic policies that have resulted in the Dems losing every single branch of government because everyone is now united by hating Trump.

1) The DNC shouldn't sway primaries in either direction.
2) Party should unite around whoever wins the primary (whether it's a district, state, or national election).
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
The good news with all the Trump insanity is that the Progressive movement continues to gain steam...in Kansas of all places!

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/07/20/proving-kansas-hungry-democratic-socialism-sanders-and-ocasio-cortez-sold-out-rally

Doing this rally in Kansas is actually the point. The article quotes Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth who says, “I don’t think you can go too far to the left and still win the Midwest.” Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez want to prove the corporate Dems wrong.

Here is Ocasio-Cortez’ tweet:
Wow - our Unite for America rally in Kansas tomorrow outgrew the Orpheum Theater in 10 hours!

We have moved to Century II to accommodate as many people as possible (up to 5,000).

When we fight fearlessly for working class Americans, we can change our country for the better.


Whatever you do corporate Dems, don’t bend your party to the left to take advantage of all this enthusiasm. I think we’ll be much better off continuing with the corporatist Democratic policies that have resulted in the Dems losing every single branch of government because everyone is now united by hating Trump.


I think there’s truth here, but spoiled by a lack of a larger view of the truth. Notice how the progressive lost in the Virginia governors race (and how Bernie and company pulled their support in the general), and the turnout and win was massive. It’s not all one or the other, and everyone who is not a hard core socialist is a “corporatist”. These are false, divisive labels, and if you look at the special election and primaries thus far, are also a case of cherry picking. There’s a broad coalition from center left to far left, and people all along that continuum are going to win in various places. We need to embrace them all and win, and then start wrangling about what the coalition can and will do.


Exactly. It's unfortunate that even in the intent to promote something productive, there is divisiveness and counter-productive labeling in Surfitall's post . . . Duckworth, a "corporate Dem? . . . that's a but of an exaggeration.

I also think it is mischaracterizing her point to claim she was saying that Dem's should not consider progressive ideas. Her point was that context needs to be considered when strategizing. Nothing productive is going to happen if everyone isn't open to finding the best past in each context and focuses rigidly on their preferred path. It's just as counter-productive to push a solely progressive path as it is for Dems to ignore the more progressive ideas in their pursuit to gain a foothold against the GOP's current dominance.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject:

Is anyone a corporate Dem in your view, DaMule?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:19 am    Post subject:

Liberals...
Corporate democrats...

I think we need to re-visit this type of discussion after we get the WH and congress back to Americans.
At this point if you’re scared of the direction this country is heading, both the government and society then table it and focus on removing these dangerous people out of office
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

Exactly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

33% of Americans approve of what happened in Helsinki. That's quite a bit approving of Trump sellling America out to Putin. That's disturbing. How only 50% disapprove is just as disturbing. Why not more disapproving?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
33% of Americans approve of what happened in Helsinki. That's quite a bit approving of Trump sellling America out to Putin. That's disturbing. How only 50% disapprove is just as disturbing. Why not more disapproving?


33% are hard core supporters, they don't care if Trump shoots someone in the middle of the street. There are alot of other people who simply don't follow the news or don't care.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Liberals...
Corporate democrats...

I think we need to re-visit this type of discussion after we get the WH and congress back to Americans.
At this point if you’re scared of the direction this country is heading, both the government and society then table it and focus on removing these dangerous people out of office


Seems to me if we want to take back the White House and Congress this topic must be addressed. Young people are overwhelmingly Democrats, yet from a poll from just last month, only 28 percent of young adults ages 18 to 29 say they are “absolutely certain” they’ll vote in midterms, compared to 74 percent of seniors. Energize the young people...

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/7/18/17585898/young-voter-turnout-polls-midterms-2018
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
33% of Americans approve of what happened in Helsinki. That's quite a bit approving of Trump sellling America out to Putin. That's disturbing. How only 50% disapprove is just as disturbing. Why not more disapproving?


That's how rabid tribalism works.

For instance, imagine if a Laker was accused of a serious crime. Some fans would call him out. Some fans would do mental backflips to deflect. Some fans would flat out refuse to believe he was guilty no matter how damning the evidence. And if that player was intergral to the Lakers winning, a plurality of fans would still want to see him playing whilst the alleged crime works itself out because in the end tribalists just want their tribe to win pretty much at all costs. Welcome to America.

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Last edited by Aussiesuede on Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Is anyone a corporate Dem in your view, DaMule?


Feinstein, by 1000% for starters.

Here's the more pertinent question. Is there anyone who isn't in your view? Because you cast a pretty all inclusive net in that regard. Meanwhile,I never claimed there weren't any.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
governator wrote:
Liberals...
Corporate democrats...

I think we need to re-visit this type of discussion after we get the WH and congress back to Americans.
At this point if you’re scared of the direction this country is heading, both the government and society then table it and focus on removing these dangerous people out of office


Seems to me if we want to take back the White House and Congress this topic must be addressed. Young people are overwhelmingly Democrats, yet from a poll from just last month, only 28 percent of young adults ages 18 to 29 say they are “absolutely certain” they’ll vote in midterms, compared to 74 percent of seniors. Energize the young people...

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/7/18/17585898/young-voter-turnout-polls-midterms-2018


I’m with you brother but Roth now it’s anti-Trump time. I’m not a fan of the 2 party system but our country is under attack, from outside and inside, get them out (whoever emerge from the primary, we’ll support) and once we get sanity back in government then and only then we go to the finer things of governing
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Liberals...
Corporate democrats...

I think we need to re-visit this type of discussion after we get the WH and congress back to Americans.
At this point if you’re scared of the direction this country is heading, both the government and society then table it and focus on removing these dangerous people out of office


Now that is some meaningful, pertinent perspective . . .
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Liberals...
Corporate democrats...

I think we need to re-visit this type of discussion after we get the WH and congress back to Americans.
At this point if you’re scared of the direction this country is heading, both the government and society then table it and focus on removing these dangerous people out of office


Now that is some meaningful, pertinent perspective . . .


Yea man, this past yr been crazy as hell. I’m a 40+ yr old dude out of upstate NY, immigrant but been here since HS. I supported Bernie but voted for Hillary in the general election... I even understood why people voted non-Hillary non-Trump back then because I truly believe in your vote your voice (I’ve voted ‘D’ since the 90s, not cause I agree with the whole platform, some I do, some ‘R’ platform I agree with, but because the ‘R’ has been straight up racist, under disguise in past, out in open now). I didn’t in my wildest dream imagine this type of damage that had occurred in USA. Having lived in a country where minority didn’t have the same rights then moved to US, man, what a difference.
I’ve argued with some of you guys about Bernie vs Hillary, about Democrats vs sold out democrats... feels like it’s meaningless now. This is bigger than any of that. My 2 yr old son can very well grow up in an ‘acceptable to be racist’ USA, Europe/NATO is enemy, Russia is leader of the world/US friend, no Roe v Wade, ok to be sexist, ok to discriminate based on religion... y’all get my point... crazy, unthinkable, I’ve ran out of adjectives.

Rant over, sorry wrote boring long crap but I’ll be voting anti-Trump the whole way in ‘18, in ‘20 (hopefully that’s it)... meaning whatever ‘D’ is in the ticket gets me vote and let’s put Americans back in USA government
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
33% of Americans approve of what happened in Helsinki. That's quite a bit approving of Trump sellling America out to Putin. That's disturbing. How only 50% disapprove is just as disturbing. Why not more disapproving?


That's how rabid tribalism works.

For instance, imagine if a Laker was accused of a serious crime. Some fans would call him out. Some fans would do mental backflips to deflect. Some fans would flat out refuse to believe he was guilty no matter how damning the evidence. And if that player was intergral to the Lakers winning, a plurality of fans would still want to see him playing whilst the alleged crime works itself out because in the end tribalists just want their tribe to win pretty much at all costs. Welcome to America.

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Love your sig, Aussie. I wish Carlin was still around so we could hear what he had to say about this mess. He was a frkn genius, imo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
I wish Carlin was still around so we could hear what he had to say about this mess. He was a frkn genius, imo.


Yeah, but I'm kind of glad that such a wonderful and great mind was spared having to live through a period of such staggering stupidity and regression.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject:

It's coming up on midnight on the east coast and this is what the Wacko-In-Chief just tweeted:

Quote:
Donald J. Trump Verified account @realDonaldTrump

To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
It's coming up on midnight on the east coast and this is what the Wacko-In-Chief just tweeted:

Quote:
Donald J. Trump Verified account @realDonaldTrump

To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!


All CAPS, too.

Internet tough guy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Page is the founder and managing partner of Global Energy Capital, a one-man investment fund and consulting firm specializing in the Russian and Central Asian oil and gas business.


Quote:
“It’s really spin,” Page said. “I sat in on some meetings. To call me an adviser is way over the top. … This is really nothing.”


Quote:
“I might have participated in a few meetings that a lot of people, including people from the Obama administration, were sitting in on,” Page said.


Somebody hand this guy a meddle.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:53 am    Post subject:

IPK wrote:
Quote:
Page is the founder and managing partner of Global Energy Capital, a one-man investment fund and consulting firm specializing in the Russian and Central Asian oil and gas business.


Quote:
“It’s really spin,” Page said. “I sat in on some meetings. To call me an adviser is way over the top. … This is really nothing.”


Quote:
“I might have participated in a few meetings that a lot of people, including people from the Obama administration, were sitting in on,” Page said.


Somebody hand this guy a meddle.


another lump vetted and hired by trump


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/candidate-trump-promised-best-people-cabinet-50183308

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:37 am    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
It's coming up on midnight on the east coast and this is what the Wacko-In-Chief just tweeted:

Quote:
Donald J. Trump Verified account @realDonaldTrump

To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!


All CAPS, too.

Internet tough guy.


Speaking of which:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/382923478157910016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject:

The Russpublicans are losing it...

Senator Rand Paul
@RandPaul

Is John Brennan monetizing his security clearance? Is John Brennan making millions of dollars divulging secrets to the mainstream media with his attacks on @realDonaldTrump ?


@RandPaul

Today I will meet with the President and I will ask him to revoke John Brennan’s security clearance!

4:42 AM - 23 Jul 2018


Can the whole party and their voters be impeached?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:


All CAPS, too.

Internet tough guy.


In other words, expect a summit with Iran later this year where he tells the world we avoided certain war and Iran gets everything they wanted.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:


All CAPS, too.

Internet tough guy.


In other words, expect a summit with Iran later this year where he tells the world we avoided certain war and Iran gets everything they wanted.


BINGO!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject:

From Writer David Gerrold:

Do not start this (bleep) again about progressives vs. moderates in the Democratic party.

There has to be room in the party for both moderates and progressives — precisely because the party is a coalition of different interests. It always has been.

The success of the Democratic party comes not from adopting one view or the other. It comes from different groups listening, negotiating, compromising, and ultimately uniting for common cause.

Nobody gets a pony, but everybody gets something, a few steps in the right direction are better than a giant faceplant in no direction.

There has to be something in the party platform that addresses the wants and needs of every specific demographic — education, labor, rural, urban, black, white, poor, immigrant, LGBTQ+, women, seniors, the disabled, and every other group that needs to have honest representation.

It's not about ideology. It can't be about ideology. Ideology is what teabaggers and trumpanzees do — ideology above empathy, compassion, and intelligence is what got us into this mess.

It has to be about people. How do we serve the people? And the needs of any specific demographic are not going to be solved by anybody's one-size fits all ideology.

More than that — Democracy is supposed to be a representative government. It's not about any one group getting their way, it's about getting honest representation for every group. It's about having a congress that is committed to serving the needs of the people. We had that once. We can do it again — but we're not going to get there if we start applying purity tests for every single candidate — because no one will pass, and all we'll accomplish is dividing ourselves again — which is exactly what the Republicans want, it's exactly why the Russians are sinking money into #walkaway and other efforts to dishearten American voters.

It's this simple. The Democrats need to win seats. After we have a Democratic congress, then we can make demands on the issues that we need to see happen.

Even a general reading of American history will show why this is important. MLK was convinced not to support Nixon. His support put JFK (and Lyndon Johnson) into the White House. That's when he was able to push for the Federal Civil Rights Act and the Voters Rights Act. Not before the election — but after there was a congress in place that could deliver those laws.

So yes, I truly appreciate the fanaticism, the idealism, the determination, the commitment, the arguments, the slogans, the memes, the bullheaded stubbornness, the impatience of all those want to solve all the nation's problems with a white-knight on a golden unicorn.

But right now, I'd settle for a congress of Democrats who are willing to roll up their sleeves and go to work repairing the incredible damage that the orange (bleep) and his enablers have done to us.

(Feel free to argue — on your own wall. I don't have the patience today to be schooled by people whose political memory only extends as far back as 2012.)

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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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