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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject:

Thanks LS. Hopefully everyone had a week to relax and we'll see some real discussion here.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:02 am    Post subject:

Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:07 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.
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Last edited by Huey Lewis & The News on Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:08 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I find myself hoping that Romney ends up as Secretary of State. That's where I think we are; that's just the reality of the current state of affairs.

You kidding? I'm praying to the heavens Romney gets appointed Secretary of State. There needs to be at least one (relatively) sane person in the general proximity of the oval office
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:09 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.


Were they wrong? She was a horrible candidate and she lost to the worst, most unqualified candidate of all time.

And, as soon as the paid shills disappeared, suddenly it was pro-Bernie again. Funny how that works.

Maybe if the establishment hadn't screwed Bernie and his supporters at every turn we wouldn't be worrying about President Trump and his Supreme Court nominees right now.


Last edited by DuncanIdaho on Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.


Yeah and as soon as the paid shills disappeared suddenly it was pro-Bernie again. Funny how that works.


I don't think it had anything to do with a CTR (dnc/dws/hilluminati) conspiracy. Even s4p shut itself down after the campus revolution took a knee. Now that Trump's won, Bernie nation gets to ride a high horse again...strangely, at its own expense.
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Last edited by Huey Lewis & The News on Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.


Yeah and as soon as the paid shills disappeared suddenly it was pro-Bernie again. Funny how that works.


I don't think it had anything to do with a CTR (dnc/dws/hilluminati) conspiracy. Even s4p shut itself down after the campus revolution took a knee. Now that Trump won, Bernie nation gets to ride a high horse again.


Because they were right all along. HRC lost to the most unqualified candidate of all time. Bernie supporters have a right to feel like they were screwed.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:24 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


Quote:
Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.


Yeah and as soon as the paid shills disappeared suddenly it was pro-Bernie again. Funny how that works.


I don't think it had anything to do with a CTR (dnc/dws/hilluminati) conspiracy. Even s4p shut itself down after the campus revolution took a knee. Now that Trump won, Bernie nation gets to ride a high horse again.


Because they were right all along. HRC lost to the most unqualified candidate of all time. Bernie supporters have a right to feel like they were screwed.


I keep seeing this. The alternate timeline most frequently presented goes that Bernie would've beaten Trump (chiefly grounded in polls...) which would've required him to somehow bypass the primary, in which he got beaten by millions of votes. When the millions-of-votes loss to Hillary is mentioned, Bernie inc. pivots to this mythical all-powerful DNC that generated millions of votes for Hillary. The right to feel...feelings have to reconcile with the sheer force of democracy at some point, don't they? For better or for worse.
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:27 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Shlumpledink wrote:
Reddit and the God Emperor of the Internet


Anyone who uses Reddit knows about The_Donald subreddit, which was a big source of false news and anti Hillary spin. New York Times do a writeup here about it. Here are some of the more interesting parts:

Quote:
The_Donald has around 300,000 members. Some are conservative stalwarts, others are meme-making teenagers; all are anonymous, hidden behind user names, making their origins and motivations difficult to pinpoint. But it’s fair to say that many saw themselves as political outsiders who reveled in rallying for the underdog.

The community is home to copious Islamophobia, trolling of liberals and near constant bashing of Hillary Clinton. It has evolved a dialect decipherable only to insiders, which includes acronyms like “MAGA” (Make America Great Again); epithets like “God Emperor” (for Mr. Trump); insults like “cuck” (short for cuckold and often deployed against feminists); memes featuring a cartoon frog associated with racism; and nicknames like ’Pedes. (Centipedes, a term for Trump supporters adopted from a YouTube mash-up of the song “Centipede” by the band Knife Party and clips of Mr. Trump’s speeches. It might also be a (private man parts) joke. Seriously.)


Quote:
The_Donald’s policy states “no racism/anti-Semitism,” but it also warns “No dissenters or S.J.W.s,” as in social-justice warriors. “Concern trolling,” or questioning views expressed on the subreddit, is also banned.

The community is notoriously difficult to manage. Its top moderator team has turned over at least four times, according to Mr. Huffman. (This usually happened because the community revolted, as in one instance in which a lead moderator wrote that he believed he could get away with assaulting undocumented immigrants.) Moderators also suspend and bar members more frequently than do moderators of any other section of the site.


Its also been reported that they use bots to upvote the_donald posts to the front page for everyone to see. Videos would have more upvotes than views of the video or article itself.

Quote:
The community’s power soon reached beyond Reddit. Mr. Trump tweeted out memes and videos that originated on The_Donald and in July he participated in a popular Reddit “Ask Me Anything” discussion, after his team communicated with the moderators.

This would make little sense if The_Donald were all memes and derision. But according to Reddit, The_Donald’s moderators — nearly 50 far-flung volunteers — deftly managed to channel action out of the chaos. They hosted an extensive and at times informative Wiki about Mr. Trump’s policy proposals and instructed supporters how to help with the campaign. Members often suggested strategies for arguing persuasively against opponents.


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Perhaps most important, members organized an effort to comb through the Democratic National Committee emails released by WikiLeaks over the summer. In order to interpret and disseminate these documents, The_Donald relied on a network of subscribers it (adoringly?) named “weaponized autists.” Of particular fixation were emails from the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta. In a debate in October, Mr. Trump said to Mrs. Clinton, “John Podesta said some horrible things about you.”


One of my biggest frustrations as a daily reddit user, seeing that sort of nonsense at the top page, even though mostly it was just madness. Couple this with the fact that there were a lot of pro-trump twitter bots posting 4 times as often as pro-Hillary it muddies any sort of constructive political discussion.

If you're ever bored and want some free entertainment, and want to look into the echo chamber of echo chambers, read some of the comments on their posts at reddit.com/r/the_donald

That's my rant, I'm glad the message board is back. Hope it works out for everyone. I appreciate a lot of the discussions you've all had.


So I have an alternative view of Reddit. It was almost impossible to converse in the politics subreddit after the Democratic convention because of Correct The Record. Basically, the HRC campaign paid shills to bury anything pro-Bernie and it wasn't until after the election that /r/politics became readable again.


Dude, before Bernie lost, r/politics was basically r/Bernout. It was ironically similar to the_donald in its anti-Hillary slant.


Yeah and as soon as the paid shills disappeared suddenly it was pro-Bernie again. Funny how that works.


I don't think it had anything to do with a CTR (dnc/dws/hilluminati) conspiracy. Even s4p shut itself down after the campus revolution took a knee. Now that Trump won, Bernie nation gets to ride a high horse again.


Because they were right all along. HRC lost to the most unqualified candidate of all time. Bernie supporters have a right to feel like they were screwed.


I keep seeing this. The alternate timeline most frequently presented goes that Bernie would've beaten Trump (chiefly grounded in polls...) which would've required him to somehow bypass the primary, in which he got beaten by millions of votes. When the millions-of-votes loss to Hillary is mentioned, Bernie inc. pivots to this mythical all-powerful DNC that generated millions of votes for Hillary. The right to feel...feelings have to reconcile with the sheer force of democracy at some point, don't they? For better or for worse.


The DNC could have seen the writing on the wall this election and supported the better candidate with their superdelegates. Unfortunately they backed the losing horse. And if you read the Podesta/DNC leaks they never intended to support anyone but Hillary anyway.

In my state, Colorado, Bernie won the caucus in a landslide and still every superdelegate went for Clinton. So the feeling of anguish towards the DNC is personal.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:35 am    Post subject:

Dems have to regroup. They didn't see the hand writing on the wall. When Trump was making the outlandish statements his poll numbers didn't fall. Dems seem to think it meant nothing.

I had a feeling it did. Which is why I kept re-posting the Dewey defeats Truman headline.

I voiced concern when the first two states went Trump. I knew they carried few electoral votes but I just couldn't shake the feeling,

I'm a Dem and feel we have to do a overhaul. During the campaign I thought it was the Republicans that would have to do that.

I'm going to wait and see what kind of policies Trump tries to implement. I hope he moves away from his campaign rhetoric.

It probably won't do anygood but I can see motion for a vote of no confidence a possibility if Trump acts on his campaign platform.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

The DNC could have seen the writing on the wall this election and supported the better candidate with their superdelegates. Unfortunately they backed the losing horse. And if you read the Podesta/DNC leaks they never intended to support anyone but Hillary anyway.

In my state, Colorado, Bernie won the caucus in a landslide and still every superdelegate went for Clinton. So the feeling of anguish towards the DNC is personal.


And you don't think the millions of voters that supported Hillary in the primary would have been pissed had the DNC urged the superdelegates to vote for the candidate that actually lost the popular vote and had fewer pledged delegates? What basis would the superdelegates have to support him? Some general election polls 10 months before the actual election? That alternate reality you're imagining wouldn't have been as perfect as you're imagining. It would have created a lot of controversy, a lot of anger, and, guess what, many angry Hillary supporters that wouldn't have voted for Bernie down the line. You don't think Hillary's supporters would have taken it personal that their candidate - who had won the popular vote and won the pledged delegates - was suddenly disregarded by the DNC? What's the point of the primary process if the loser gets to be the winner? And again, I'm not a huge Hillary supporter, I voted for Bernie and campaigned for him, but once it was over, it was over. I didn't stay out of the election, or voted for some nutjob or a doofus, because my feelings were hurt.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:01 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:

The DNC could have seen the writing on the wall this election and supported the better candidate with their superdelegates. Unfortunately they backed the losing horse. And if you read the Podesta/DNC leaks they never intended to support anyone but Hillary anyway.

In my state, Colorado, Bernie won the caucus in a landslide and still every superdelegate went for Clinton. So the feeling of anguish towards the DNC is personal.


And you don't think the millions of voters that supported Hillary in the primary would have been pissed had the DNC urged the superdelegates to vote for the candidate that actually lost the popular vote and had fewer pledged delegates? What basis would the superdelegates have to support him? Some general election polls 10 months before the actual election? That alternate reality you're imagining wouldn't have been as perfect as you're imagining. It would have created a lot of controversy, a lot of anger, and, guess what, many angry Hillary supporters that wouldn't have voted for Bernie down the line. You don't think Hillary's supporters would have taken it personal that their candidate - who had won the popular vote and won the pledged delegates - was suddenly disregarded by the DNC? What's the point of the primary process if the loser gets to be the winner? And again, I'm not a huge Hillary supporter, I voted for Bernie and campaigned for him, but once it was over, it was over. I didn't stay out of the election, or voted for some nutjob or a doofus, because my feelings were hurt.


It couldn't have been worse than what happened in reality: the worst loss, nationally and down-ticket for the Democrats in nearly 100 years. No (bleep). It hasn't been since the 1920's that the Republicans have controlled all branches of government. Those Hillary supporters who showed up in the primaries apparently didn't translate to general success. I thought that's what the superdelegates were for.

I mean Jesus -- right now, the Republicans could call a Convention of States and amend the Constitution and they have the state houses to do it. The Democrats are seriously on the ropes. I don't think people realize how bad it is. We got (bleep) slaughtered when we usually have a good turnout.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:37 am    Post subject:

Trump might be the most unqualified but he is the master at media manipulation. He beat 16 others on the GOP primaries. That takes a lot of persuasion in every aspect imaginable.

Also, it seems that personalities win elections. Policy wonks rarely do.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject:

When an election goes badly, there is always going to be a certain amount of second guessing and woulda/shoulda/coulda talk. Bernie Sanders never ran in the general election, so we have no idea how he would have fared. But more importantly, regardless of whether he could have beaten Trump, he couldn't beat HRC. This is not the fault of the DNC meanies, either. A socialist who wanted to enact massive new giveaway programs was too much for a lot of Democrats.

This is not to say that progressivism is dead in the Democratic Party. Quite the contrary. Bernie Sanders was just too outlandish. The Dems need to incorporate a more progressive platform on domestic issues, rather than the warmed over status quo ideas that HRC offered.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:56 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Wilt wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:

The DNC could have seen the writing on the wall this election and supported the better candidate with their superdelegates. Unfortunately they backed the losing horse. And if you read the Podesta/DNC leaks they never intended to support anyone but Hillary anyway.

In my state, Colorado, Bernie won the caucus in a landslide and still every superdelegate went for Clinton. So the feeling of anguish towards the DNC is personal.


And you don't think the millions of voters that supported Hillary in the primary would have been pissed had the DNC urged the superdelegates to vote for the candidate that actually lost the popular vote and had fewer pledged delegates? What basis would the superdelegates have to support him? Some general election polls 10 months before the actual election? That alternate reality you're imagining wouldn't have been as perfect as you're imagining. It would have created a lot of controversy, a lot of anger, and, guess what, many angry Hillary supporters that wouldn't have voted for Bernie down the line. You don't think Hillary's supporters would have taken it personal that their candidate - who had won the popular vote and won the pledged delegates - was suddenly disregarded by the DNC? What's the point of the primary process if the loser gets to be the winner? And again, I'm not a huge Hillary supporter, I voted for Bernie and campaigned for him, but once it was over, it was over. I didn't stay out of the election, or voted for some nutjob or a doofus, because my feelings were hurt.


It couldn't have been worse than what happened in reality: the worst loss, nationally and down-ticket for the Democrats in nearly 100 years. No (bleep). It hasn't been since the 1920's that the Republicans have controlled all branches of government. Those Hillary supporters who showed up in the primaries apparently didn't translate to general success. I thought that's what the superdelegates were for.

I mean Jesus -- right now, the Republicans could call a Convention of States and amend the Constitution and they have the state houses to do it. The Democrats are seriously on the ropes. I don't think people realize how bad it is. We got (bleep) slaughtered when we usually have a good turnout.


Huh? The Republicans had the House and Senate in the 107th and 108th Congresses, a 5-4 advantage in the SCOTUS, and had Bush as president.

Hillary now has over 1.3 million votes, and growing, more than Trump, despite Russia, selective Wikileaks, Comey and his gang of renegades, a media that would not stop showing Trump, and a right-wing deception machine that just never stops.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:11 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
When an election goes badly, there is always going to be a certain amount of second guessing and woulda/shoulda/coulda talk. Bernie Sanders never ran in the general election, so we have no idea how he would have fared. But more importantly, regardless of whether he could have beaten Trump, he couldn't beat HRC. This is not the fault of the DNC meanies, either. A socialist who wanted to enact massive new giveaway programs was too much for a lot of Democrats.


As simple as that.

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
This is not to say that progressivism is dead in the Democratic Party. Quite the contrary. Bernie Sanders was just too outlandish. The Dems need to incorporate a more progressive platform on domestic issues, rather than the warmed over status quo ideas that HRC offered.


Yet, according to Hillary and Bernie both, the Democrats had the most progressive platform ever. I don't believe Hillary lost on the issues. She lost due to all the reasons I previously stated, plus she did not defend Clinton's and Obama's administrations with great fervor and repetition. Nor did she attack the anemic GDP results under both Bush's or the huge debt than incurred under the firm of Reagan Bush and Bush, nor the change of culture that occurred with the Reagan Revolution that has seen the debt to GDP more than triple, and the gap of the "have more's" and the lower nine income deciles increase dramatically since 1980.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Wilt wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:

The DNC could have seen the writing on the wall this election and supported the better candidate with their superdelegates. Unfortunately they backed the losing horse. And if you read the Podesta/DNC leaks they never intended to support anyone but Hillary anyway.

In my state, Colorado, Bernie won the caucus in a landslide and still every superdelegate went for Clinton. So the feeling of anguish towards the DNC is personal.


And you don't think the millions of voters that supported Hillary in the primary would have been pissed had the DNC urged the superdelegates to vote for the candidate that actually lost the popular vote and had fewer pledged delegates? What basis would the superdelegates have to support him? Some general election polls 10 months before the actual election? That alternate reality you're imagining wouldn't have been as perfect as you're imagining. It would have created a lot of controversy, a lot of anger, and, guess what, many angry Hillary supporters that wouldn't have voted for Bernie down the line. You don't think Hillary's supporters would have taken it personal that their candidate - who had won the popular vote and won the pledged delegates - was suddenly disregarded by the DNC? What's the point of the primary process if the loser gets to be the winner? And again, I'm not a huge Hillary supporter, I voted for Bernie and campaigned for him, but once it was over, it was over. I didn't stay out of the election, or voted for some nutjob or a doofus, because my feelings were hurt.


It couldn't have been worse than what happened in reality: the worst loss, nationally and down-ticket for the Democrats in nearly 100 years. No (bleep). It hasn't been since the 1920's that the Republicans have controlled all branches of government. Those Hillary supporters who showed up in the primaries apparently didn't translate to general success. I thought that's what the superdelegates were for.

I mean Jesus -- right now, the Republicans could call a Convention of States and amend the Constitution and they have the state houses to do it. The Democrats are seriously on the ropes. I don't think people realize how bad it is. We got (bleep) slaughtered when we usually have a good turnout.


Huh? The Republicans had the House and Senate in the 107th and 108th Congresses, a 5-4 advantage in the SCOTUS, and had Bush as president.

Hillary now has over 1.3 million votes, and growing, more than Trump, despite Russia, selective Wikileaks, Comey and his gang of renegades, a media that would not stop showing Trump, and a right-wing deception machine that just never stops.


This is why I'm against lesser evil voting, you get used in statistics like this. A lot of Hillary's votes were Anti-Trump votes, and those votes would have gone to Trump's opponent regardless of who it was.

Not only would Bernie have still gotten those votes, he would have taken votes away from Trump as well since he was also anti-establishment.

DuncanIdaho's right. If there was any evidence that the DNC backed the wrong horse, losing the election in this fashion to someone like Trump has to be it. Despite the guaranteed votes and the Anti-Trump votes, there just wasn't enough there to get her elected. Perhaps this embarrassing loss is enough to convince the DNC to end the House of Cards backdoor politics and just back the right candidate next time.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject:

70 Photos Political Leaders don't want you to see **Some photos may be NSFW

Some of these Billionaire Democrats and Liberals better do something to change the way politics works and the way people get elected

Our whole society and culture are soon to be in ruins imho if something is not done

Its obvious our schools have failed this generation but they never get talked about

Will this nation keep raising individuals that can be manipulated by human debris or will we raise intelligent responsible humans? This election was like a hospital diagnosis for our whole country...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject:

Trump getting elected is definitely democrats fault, about 5 millions less vote than Obama got. Trump had narrow path and he hit homeruns in all of them while the democratic candidate camp misread a lot of things.
I am one of people that feels Bernie wasn't treated fairly by DNC. From minimal non-prime time initial primary debates scheduled to blocking voter access for Bernie's camp. It does still leave a sour taste and no, I'm not a millenials. What it feels is that money influence DNC pretty well. I've voted blue 100% up and down ballots since the time I could finally vote but DNC is gonna have to improve to get me back to its camp. Selecting Schumer as minority leader is not encouraging (he gets wall street $ similar to Hillary), having Bernie and Warren in advisory/leadership position is. So we'll see
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject:

Are there any good things to say about Trump?

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Republicans, independents, swing voters and GOP members of the House and Senate who are staking their reelection campaigns on their support for Trump to be president and commander in chief should thoughtfully reflect on the recent op-ed in The New York Times by former acting CIA Director Michael Morell.

The op-ed is titled “I ran the CIA. Now I’m endorsing Hillary Clinton.” Morell, who has spent decades protecting our security in the intelligence business, offered high praise for the Democratic nominee and former secretary of State based on his years of working closely with her in the high councils of government. But Morell went even further than praising and endorsing Clinton.

In one of the most extraordinary and unprecedented statements in the history of presidential politics, which powerfully supports the case that every Republican running for office should unequivocally state that they will refuse to vote for Trump or face potentially catastrophic consequences at the polls, Morell wrote: “In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.”

This brings to mind the novel and motion picture “The Manchurian Candidate,” which about an American who was captured during the Korean War and brainwashed to unwittingly carry out orders to advance the interests of communists against America.

I offer no suggestion about Trump’s motives in repeatedly saying things, and advocating positions, that are so destructive to American national security interests, though Trump owes the American people full and immediate disclosure of his tax returns for them to determine what, if any, business interests or debt may exist with Russian or other hostile foreign sources.

Whatever Trump’s motivation, Morell is right in suggesting the billionaire nominee is at the least acting as an “unwitting agent” who often advances the interests of foreign actors hostile to America.

Donald Trump, a real-life Manchurian candidate
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Trump getting elected is definitely democrats fault, about 5 millions less vote than Obama got. Trump had narrow path and he hit homeruns in all of them while the democratic candidate camp misread a lot of things.
I am one of people that feels Bernie wasn't treated fairly by DNC. From minimal non-prime time initial primary debates scheduled to blocking voter access for Bernie's camp. It does still leave a sour taste and no, I'm not a millenials. What it feels is that money influence DNC pretty well. I've voted blue 100% up and down ballots since the time I could finally vote but DNC is gonna have to improve to get me back to its camp. Selecting Schumer as minority leader is not encouraging (he gets wall street $ similar to Hillary), having Bernie and Warren in advisory/leadership position is. So we'll see


The actual margin is now less than 3.5M and this number is shrinking by the day. I don't know how many votes are left to count, but I can see the margin dropping to 2 1/2 - 3M by the time all is said and done.

To be within four or five percent of a such a remarkable and talented candidate as Barack Obama, with more votes than McCain, Romney or Trump, is nothing to be ashamed of.

Our electoral college system that allows all electoral votes to go the winner of a state, even if the margin is one vote (or 13,000 votes out of 4.5 million as in Michigan), can prevent a tyranny of the majority, but at the expense of allowing a tyranny of the minority--or the tyranny of the rural communities, as is the case.

Hillary has 1.3M more votes, and will likely, ultimately, have more than 1.5M more than Trump. If about 130,000 of that 1,500,000, or less than 10 percent, of this lead was simply geographically relocated, the electoral college results would align with the popular vote.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:21 am    Post subject:

I don't want to beat this to death, but a few things about bernie vs Hillary:

Super delegates are free like everyone else to vote for whom they want. The fact that they tend to end up aligning with the popular vote winner means that while they have influence in their early support, they aren't the fixers they are portrayed to be. It is worth noting that they come from positions such that most of them have long histories knowing and working with or around both Bernie and Hillary. The fact that they know both and support one overwhelmingly leads me to my next point.

Bernie tried to run a best of both worlds campaign, just as he tries to have the best of both worlds as a legislator. He wants to be the outsider, but then wants the support of the inside. And he wants to mostly trade his already vote for a favor here and there, and throw a protest vote out there when it doesn't matter legislatively. Similarly, his primary base doesn't really care about democratic politics, and often doesn't show up to vote, and certainly doesn't organize around lower level positions. This is Bernie in a nutshell. Lots of bombast and protest voting, very little heavy lifting building coalitions and getting things done.

And let's get to the general, where the argument is that Bernie would have upped enthusiasm and won the vote. Where? It is a pretty strong conclusion in this election that it was a partisan one, where the base of both parties came out in solid if unspectacular numbers and part of the base (moderate Republicans in some numbers and left wing Democrats in some numbers) either didn't vote or voted write in/third party.

Both Bernie and Trump appealed to populism on their own side, and the idea of a them to blame and destroy, including institutions on both sides (and we are seeing the results of a candidate who doesn't believe in institutions trying to fill a government without dipping into them). Both would end up taking most of the partisan base on their side, but while some of the Stein and Johnson and stay home voters come over to Bernie in a general, some of those on the other side come out against him, because his policy scares them far more than a moderate Democrat. Similarly, Hillary lost a fair chunk of the middle to Trump (the decider of the election), and those are exactly the voters that Bernie already turns off.

Bernie would get gains mostly in states she already won, and perhaps in Iowa and or Wisconsin, but due to electoral math, that doesn't help him much when he was way weaker than her in places like Florida, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. He doesn't win outside the firewall and loses a bunch in it as well.

It is easy to simply say you backed the wrong horse, but that leads to self satisfaction and repeating the same patterns of only showing up in presidential years and major elections. If you want to change institutions, you seldom do it from completely outside. Try taking the time to actually make your voice heard inside one, and not just with a presidential vote. Elect Congress people, and other jobs, so that your message is heard daily. Revolutions are about power, and if you even succeeded in tearing down institutions, the vacuum is rarely filled with peace and love and egalitarianism. Move the party in the right direction if that's the goal and you can Marshall the votes. Make the party respect and hear you at worst, and take its leadership at best. Because you're never going to win the throw the bums out battle, the right wing has way too much easy hate to sell there.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Yet, according to Hillary and Bernie both, the Democrats had the most progressive platform ever.


But the candidate was different from the platform. Few people would regard HRC as a progressive. When she hit the campaign trail, she was a status quo candidate. One of Trump's most effective arguments was that HRC has been in positions of power or influence for decades, but had delivered little or nothing.

The Dems need a progressive message that appeals to the working class, and it needs a messenger who can credibly champion the message. HRC is the wrong messenger, and Bernie Sanders' message was too extreme.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Those living in the vicinity of Trump Tower are in for a huge lifestyle change. Melania and Baaron are not going to the White House when Trump moves in. Trump says they won't move to Washington until he finishes school.

Baaron is 10, that would put him in the 4th grade. If he remains in New York that means SS will be on two fronts. In essence there will be 2 White Houses.

He may never get to Washington.


No need to get into what his and their reasons might be for this decision, but it is logistically impossible for Trump to live in Trump Tower, in terms of his ability to run the country from there and security issues. I suppose his wife and son do not need to be with him though.


I heard a lot of complaints from my conservative friends about how B and M Obama were always on vacation or how his trips to and from various locations cost taxpayers a ton of money. I'd love to see the bill on how much it'll cost us if Trump ends up spending a significant amount of time living outside the white house.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Yet, according to Hillary and Bernie both, the Democrats had the most progressive platform ever.


But the candidate was different from the platform. Few people would regard HRC as a progressive. When she hit the campaign trail, she was a status quo candidate. One of Trump's most effective arguments was that HRC has been in positions of power or influence for decades, but had delivered little or nothing.

The Dems need a progressive message that appeals to the working class, and it needs a messenger who can credibly champion the message. HRC is the wrong messenger, and Bernie Sanders' message was too extreme.


It's a mistake to classify this election as liberal v. conservative. This wasn't a typical election and, thus, the typical analysis (which I still see many trying to apply) is incorrect. This election was about voter enthusiasm and swing voters (not the respective hard core base of each party). HRC lost the election because of 1) lack of enthusiasm for her as a candidate among non-die hard liberals and casual democrats and 2) her failure to focus on economic issues/jobs (instead doubling down at every turn on why to vote against Trump instead of why to vote for her).

Given that Hillary received approximately 5 or so million less votes than Obama did, if she just rallied the democrats and got them to vote, all the other issues wouldn't matter. However, assuming voter apathy remained, she lost the independent/moderate vote, which mostly consists of people who view the economy and jobs as their #1 priority (yes, this include a lot of white people, but its a mistake to say its only about white people).

There are a lot of other variables that can be discussed, but if either of those two things had been different, we'd be talking about President Clinton right now. Unfortunately, the one candidate for the Dems who had both of those issues in the bag (Bernie), among a host of other variables in his favor that seemed to be key in this election for swing voters but which Hillary did not possess (such as lack of scandals, being an outsider, being anti-trade, being against money in politics, no wall street ties, etc.), never got past the primary.

In terms of how many votes HRC ultimately receives as compared to Obama, I'd be curious to see those numbers after eliminating both NY and CA for both candidates.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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