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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
These people are not partisan hacks, Most have served both Republican and Democratic administrations. Most have never spoken out before. There is a reason they are alarmed and speaking out. In light of the fact that we have a Republican Congress who absolutely refuses to apply checks and balances on the Executive branch, I'm glad they are speaking up. Being quiet would be the easier path. Unchecked, it's more than obvious that Trump would go full-on dictatorship if he could get away with it. Half our state department (and all their institutional knowledge) has been gutted. Ditto the EPA, Education, Science, and on and on. Thank god someone is speaking up.


I think they haven't gone far enough. I want mass resignations and public testimony.
Hopefully the Dems take back the House and we can get some public hearings on Trump's decision making process.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject:

The "selfish" thing to do would be to remain quiet, out of the line of fire. Speaking up is an act of courage.

To flip the whole thing around where up is down and down is up is very Trump-like and Rudy-like. Like Rudy saying "truth isn't truth" without an ounce of self-awareness or shame. It's embarrassing.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
Fallout wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
I don't think people really understand what revoking security clearance does. It's not a petty thing. It's actually huge. It cuts that person off from consulting on future moves based on first hand experience. Self inflicted brain drain.


Its exactly that, cutting their income off. And he now wants to revoke a current DOJ employee? GOP is a party of spineless people.
.

They don't get paid for consulting or if they do it's not much. It's removing a source of experience from the field.

Just an example. McRaven asked Trump to revoke his clearance in an op ed article a couple of days ago as a show of solidarity with those who have had theirs maliciously revoked. He was in charge of JSOC which is basically the all star team of the U.S. special forces and intelligence agencies. He also ran the seal team 6 operation that killed bin Laden. He's retired but his experience is invaluable. As it stands people who are in a similar position as the ones he once held could pick up the phone and get his input on situations similar to ones he has had and as a patriot he would happily give it. Take away his clearance and that is no longer an option. You just nuked 40 years of operational experience as a resource. Now multiply it by.however many clearances he has revoked.

Now just for fun add in every unelected person who has been fired or quit because of the current administration. We're talking about literally thousands of years of experience flushed down the toilet.


Brennan is not paid well by NBC and MSNBC? How many times did the Trump administration "consult" with John Brennan? How many times in the future would the Trump Administration "consult" with John Brennan. It is a rhetorical question in that my assumption is after Brennan jumped into the arena of partisan hot takes, his service was unlikely to ever be sought by the Trump Administration. A different administration can reinstate his clearance if it feels he adds value.

Also, was mildly disgusted by the actions of many in the intelligence community after Brennan's clearance was revoked. I understand their displeasure of the administrations actions, but what was their goal in offering their clearance to be revoked? They claim they offer this great and needed value to the future security of the country, but they prefer to not offer that service to their country to make a point for the "intelligence community" at best.....a partisan political point at worst. Have whatever opinion you choose of the Trump administration or any politician, but to see former intelligence and military leaders act in such a selfish manner should be seen as a sad day for all Americans. They chose to make a point...regardless of their motivations or even its morality over serving the people of this country.


Because Trump is far from the standard and regardless of how they feel about him they would have been available to offer advice based on actual freaking experience . That's no longer an option. You have people with no experience cutting off the ones that do.

I'm going to try and make this as simple as possible and I'm going to use basketball as a point of reference because I think you might understand it.

You just got drafted first pick. You've never played a game of basketball in your life. You.just blocked Jordan Kobe Wilt Kareem Russell etc from ever getting in touch with you. You can't call them as a rookie. You can't call them in your first playoff game. You just can't call them.

Also those guys could make a metric bleepton of money in the private sector. They aren't
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject:

As former CIA director, Brennan has seen information none of have. It must be pretty damn compelling if that's the conclusion he draws. And that's precisely why Trump went after him. Trump realizes what Brennan knows. Brennan can't reveal the nuts and bolts of the raw intelligence, but he can express an informed opinion in public. I'm glad he did.

Trump is not acting like an innocent person. He's acting like he's guilty of exactly what Brennan has accused him of.

Who has more credibility? Hint: It's not the guy who lies every time his lips are moving.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
Fallout wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
I don't think people really understand what revoking security clearance does. It's not a petty thing. It's actually huge. It cuts that person off from consulting on future moves based on first hand experience. Self inflicted brain drain.


Its exactly that, cutting their income off. And he now wants to revoke a current DOJ employee? GOP is a party of spineless people.
.

They don't get paid for consulting or if they do it's not much. It's removing a source of experience from the field.

Just an example. McRaven asked Trump to revoke his clearance in an op ed article a couple of days ago as a show of solidarity with those who have had theirs maliciously revoked. He was in charge of JSOC which is basically the all star team of the U.S. special forces and intelligence agencies. He also ran the seal team 6 operation that killed bin Laden. He's retired but his experience is invaluable. As it stands people who are in a similar position as the ones he once held could pick up the phone and get his input on situations similar to ones he has had and as a patriot he would happily give it. Take away his clearance and that is no longer an option. You just nuked 40 years of operational experience as a resource. Now multiply it by.however many clearances he has revoked.

Now just for fun add in every unelected person who has been fired or quit because of the current administration. We're talking about literally thousands of years of experience flushed down the toilet.


Brennan is not paid well by NBC and MSNBC? How many times did the Trump administration "consult" with John Brennan? How many times in the future would the Trump Administration "consult" with John Brennan. It is a rhetorical question in that my assumption is after Brennan jumped into the arena of partisan hot takes, his service was unlikely to ever be sought by the Trump Administration. A different administration can reinstate his clearance if it feels he adds value.

Also, was mildly disgusted by the actions of many in the intelligence community after Brennan's clearance was revoked. I understand their displeasure of the administrations actions, but what was their goal in offering their clearance to be revoked? They claim they offer this great and needed value to the future security of the country, but they prefer to not offer that service to their country to make a point for the "intelligence community" at best.....a partisan political point at worst. Have whatever opinion you choose of the Trump administration or any politician, but to see former intelligence and military leaders act in such a selfish manner should be seen as a sad day for all Americans. They chose to make a point...regardless of their motivations or even its morality over serving the people of this country.


It would seem you would be using the standard trump tactic of placing blame for his actions on the reactions of others. To wit, trump has made egregious breaches of ethics, protocol, and procedure, for which he has been called to task by guys like Brennan, as he should be in a free democracy. So he then seeks to undermine them (and their ability to assist the investigation of him, remember that every guy in the list is a likely witness), removes them from the brain bank (they are consulted often by their successors btw), and then gets rebuked in an honorary show of solidarity (the idea here isn’t to get their security clearances revoked, but to demonstrate how far and wide and serious the support is), and you go after them.


I applaud you on your brilliant ability to include subtle statements that appear correct, but you have absolutely zero knowledge of their accuracy. You have no idea how often the Trump administration sought consultation from these individuals, nor the O'Bama administration. It is a talking point that everyone latched onto last week. I would guess 90% of the individuals that are having panic attacks over Brennan losing his security clearance were completely ignorant of what they even entailed 2 weeks ago.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


You mean when Trump stood next to Putin on international TV and sided with Putin over the U.S. intelligence agencies, after Putin said Russia had nothing to do with interference in our elections? And Trump agreed with Putin saying he didn't see any reason why Russia would do that?

Is that what you're defending? Really?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
As former CIA director, Brennan has seen information none of have. It must be pretty damn compelling if that's the conclusion he draws.


you nailed it.....which is why it was extremely irresponsible for him to make these type of statements on Twitter. This was not Maxine Waters throwing mud out there to get some headlines.....this was the former Director of the CIA....his words have weight. So flip that...because there is also a chance he knows nothing related to his statements.....still find it "courageous"?
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
Fallout wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
I don't think people really understand what revoking security clearance does. It's not a petty thing. It's actually huge. It cuts that person off from consulting on future moves based on first hand experience. Self inflicted brain drain.


Its exactly that, cutting their income off. And he now wants to revoke a current DOJ employee? GOP is a party of spineless people.
.

They don't get paid for consulting or if they do it's not much. It's removing a source of experience from the field.

Just an example. McRaven asked Trump to revoke his clearance in an op ed article a couple of days ago as a show of solidarity with those who have had theirs maliciously revoked. He was in charge of JSOC which is basically the all star team of the U.S. special forces and intelligence agencies. He also ran the seal team 6 operation that killed bin Laden. He's retired but his experience is invaluable. As it stands people who are in a similar position as the ones he once held could pick up the phone and get his input on situations similar to ones he has had and as a patriot he would happily give it. Take away his clearance and that is no longer an option. You just nuked 40 years of operational experience as a resource. Now multiply it by.however many clearances he has revoked.

Now just for fun add in every unelected person who has been fired or quit because of the current administration. We're talking about literally thousands of years of experience flushed down the toilet.


Brennan is not paid well by NBC and MSNBC? How many times did the Trump administration "consult" with John Brennan? How many times in the future would the Trump Administration "consult" with John Brennan. It is a rhetorical question in that my assumption is after Brennan jumped into the arena of partisan hot takes, his service was unlikely to ever be sought by the Trump Administration. A different administration can reinstate his clearance if it feels he adds value.

Also, was mildly disgusted by the actions of many in the intelligence community after Brennan's clearance was revoked. I understand their displeasure of the administrations actions, but what was their goal in offering their clearance to be revoked? They claim they offer this great and needed value to the future security of the country, but they prefer to not offer that service to their country to make a point for the "intelligence community" at best.....a partisan political point at worst. Have whatever opinion you choose of the Trump administration or any politician, but to see former intelligence and military leaders act in such a selfish manner should be seen as a sad day for all Americans. They chose to make a point...regardless of their motivations or even its morality over serving the people of this country.


It would seem you would be using the standard trump tactic of placing blame for his actions on the reactions of others. To wit, trump has made egregious breaches of ethics, protocol, and procedure, for which he has been called to task by guys like Brennan, as he should be in a free democracy. So he then seeks to undermine them (and their ability to assist the investigation of him, remember that every guy in the list is a likely witness), removes them from the brain bank (they are consulted often by their successors btw), and then gets rebuked in an honorary show of solidarity (the idea here isn’t to get their security clearances revoked, but to demonstrate how far and wide and serious the support is), and you go after them.


I applaud you on your brilliant ability to include subtle statements that appear correct, but you have absolutely zero knowledge of their accuracy. You have no idea how often the Trump administration sought consultation from these individuals, nor the O'Bama administration. It is a talking point that everyone latched onto last week. I would guess 90% of the individuals that are having panic attacks over Brennan losing his security clearance were completely ignorant of what they even entailed 2 weeks ago.


So you just ignored the article I posted about letter signed by former CIA directors and dozens of others who are in a position to know this for a fact? They are saying it. We are passing it on if you care to inform yourself by actually reading it.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
Fallout wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
I don't think people really understand what revoking security clearance does. It's not a petty thing. It's actually huge. It cuts that person off from consulting on future moves based on first hand experience. Self inflicted brain drain.


Its exactly that, cutting their income off. And he now wants to revoke a current DOJ employee? GOP is a party of spineless people.
.

They don't get paid for consulting or if they do it's not much. It's removing a source of experience from the field.

Just an example. McRaven asked Trump to revoke his clearance in an op ed article a couple of days ago as a show of solidarity with those who have had theirs maliciously revoked. He was in charge of JSOC which is basically the all star team of the U.S. special forces and intelligence agencies. He also ran the seal team 6 operation that killed bin Laden. He's retired but his experience is invaluable. As it stands people who are in a similar position as the ones he once held could pick up the phone and get his input on situations similar to ones he has had and as a patriot he would happily give it. Take away his clearance and that is no longer an option. You just nuked 40 years of operational experience as a resource. Now multiply it by.however many clearances he has revoked.

Now just for fun add in every unelected person who has been fired or quit because of the current administration. We're talking about literally thousands of years of experience flushed down the toilet.


Brennan is not paid well by NBC and MSNBC? How many times did the Trump administration "consult" with John Brennan? How many times in the future would the Trump Administration "consult" with John Brennan. It is a rhetorical question in that my assumption is after Brennan jumped into the arena of partisan hot takes, his service was unlikely to ever be sought by the Trump Administration. A different administration can reinstate his clearance if it feels he adds value.

Also, was mildly disgusted by the actions of many in the intelligence community after Brennan's clearance was revoked. I understand their displeasure of the administrations actions, but what was their goal in offering their clearance to be revoked? They claim they offer this great and needed value to the future security of the country, but they prefer to not offer that service to their country to make a point for the "intelligence community" at best.....a partisan political point at worst. Have whatever opinion you choose of the Trump administration or any politician, but to see former intelligence and military leaders act in such a selfish manner should be seen as a sad day for all Americans. They chose to make a point...regardless of their motivations or even its morality over serving the people of this country.


It would seem you would be using the standard trump tactic of placing blame for his actions on the reactions of others. To wit, trump has made egregious breaches of ethics, protocol, and procedure, for which he has been called to task by guys like Brennan, as he should be in a free democracy. So he then seeks to undermine them (and their ability to assist the investigation of him, remember that every guy in the list is a likely witness), removes them from the brain bank (they are consulted often by their successors btw), and then gets rebuked in an honorary show of solidarity (the idea here isn’t to get their security clearances revoked, but to demonstrate how far and wide and serious the support is), and you go after them.


I applaud you on your brilliant ability to include subtle statements that appear correct, but you have absolutely zero knowledge of their accuracy. You have no idea how often the Trump administration sought consultation from these individuals, nor the O'Bama administration. It is a talking point that everyone latched onto last week. I would guess 90% of the individuals that are having panic attacks over Brennan losing his security clearance were completely ignorant of what they even entailed 2 weeks ago.


Actually we do know. The current administration has zero experience and has consulted outside parties zero times
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
As former CIA director, Brennan has seen information none of have. It must be pretty damn compelling if that's the conclusion he draws.


you nailed it.....which is why it was extremely irresponsible for him to make these type of statements on Twitter. This was not Maxine Waters throwing mud out there to get some headlines.....this was the former Director of the CIA....his words have weight. So flip that...because there is also a chance he knows nothing related to his statements.....still find it "courageous"?


Or he's sounding the alarm because we have a Russian puppet in the White House and no one is doing anything about it. In which case he's a patriot.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


You mean when Trump stood next to Putin on international TV and sided with Putin over the U.S. intelligence agencies, after Putin said Russia had nothing to do with interference in our elections? And Trump agreed with Putin saying he didn't see any reason why Russia would do that?

Is that what you're defending? Really?


You know that is not the point I am making, nor am I defending anyone...this is a free country and I have no problem with you making that statement.....but I very much have an issue with the former CIA Director who still holds top level security clearance irresponsibly tossing that into the public arena without providing an ounce of tangible evidence.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
As former CIA director, Brennan has seen information none of have. It must be pretty damn compelling if that's the conclusion he draws.


you nailed it.....which is why it was extremely irresponsible for him to make these type of statements on Twitter. This was not Maxine Waters throwing mud out there to get some headlines.....this was the former Director of the CIA....his words have weight. So flip that...because there is also a chance he knows nothing related to his statements.....still find it "courageous"?


Or he's sounding the alarm because we have a Russian puppet in the White House and no one is doing anything about it. In which case he's a patriot.


I honestly think we can agree on that.....but I have seen nothing that proves that to be accurate.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


You mean when Trump stood next to Putin on international TV and sided with Putin over the U.S. intelligence agencies, after Putin said Russia had nothing to do with interference in our elections? And Trump agreed with Putin saying he didn't see any reason why Russia would do that?

Is that what you're defending? Really?


You know that is not the point I am making, nor am I defending anyone...this is a free country and I have no problem with you making that statement.....but I very much have an issue with the former CIA Director who still holds top level security clearance irresponsibly tossing that into the public arena without providing an ounce of tangible evidence.


If you go back to Twitter and the news that day, almost everyone who watched that press conference had the exact same reaction. Except the Trump supporters.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:


So you just ignored the article I posted about letter signed by former CIA directors and dozens of others who are in a position to know this for a fact? They are saying it. We are passing it on if you care to inform yourself by actually reading it.


with all do respect, I am not aware of what you posted, and I did not purposely ignore anything.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


You mean when Trump stood next to Putin on international TV and sided with Putin over the U.S. intelligence agencies, after Putin said Russia had nothing to do with interference in our elections? And Trump agreed with Putin saying he didn't see any reason why Russia would do that?

Is that what you're defending? Really?


You know that is not the point I am making, nor am I defending anyone...this is a free country and I have no problem with you making that statement.....but I very much have an issue with the former CIA Director who still holds top level security clearance irresponsibly tossing that into the public arena without providing an ounce of tangible evidence.


If you go back to Twitter and the news that day, almost everyone who watched that press conference had the exact same reaction. Except the Trump supporters.


that is fine.....it made me very uncomfortable also....but myself and those on Twitter words an opinions do not carry the weight of John Brennan. As you pointed out.....many will assume that he must know something factual. When you or I say it, everyone will agree or disagree and move on.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
These people are not partisan hacks, Most have served both Republican and Democratic administrations. Most have never spoken out before. There is a reason they are alarmed and speaking out. In light of the fact that we have a Republican Congress who absolutely refuses to apply checks and balances on the Executive branch, I'm glad they are speaking up. Being quiet would be the easier path. Unchecked, it's more than obvious that Trump would go full-on dictatorship if he could get away with it. Half our state department (and all their institutional knowledge) has been gutted. Ditto the EPA, Education, Science, and on and on. Thank god someone is speaking up.

Scores of ex-spies join in rebuking Trump over security clearances

Quote:
An avalanche of retired senior intelligence officials and spies have joined more than a dozen of their former bosses in issuing a public rebuke of President Donald Trump’s decision to revoke the security clearance of John Brennan, the ex-CIA chief who has become a strong critic of the president.

In a rare public campaign, a total of 60 former CIA station chiefs, analysts and operations officers — along with a former director of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and deputy director of the National Counterterrorism Center — declared on Friday afternoon their “firm belief that the country will be weakened if there is a political litmus test applied before seasoned experts are allowed to share their views.”

“We believe equally strongly that former government officials have the right to express their unclassified views on what they see as critical national security issues without fear of being punished for doing so,” they added in a brief statement.

The statement follows a similar one issued late Thursday by 11 former directors and deputy directors of the CIA and one director of national intelligence. They served in Democratic and Republican administrations, and decried the removal of the security clearance “as a political tool.”

The back-to-back statements also follow a blistering op-ed by retired Navy Adm. William McRaven, who, in an act of solidarity with Brennan, appealed to Trump to revoke his security clearance, as well.


Quote:
Harlow called it exceedingly rare for intelligence professionals who spent most of their careers in the shadows and who shy away from politically charged public disputes to insert themselves so directly.

“There have been one or two other times where I recall a bunch of people speaking out, but not in this number and not at this speed,” Harlow told POLITICO. “They are trying to speak out against politicizing national security and security clearances. This is not about a person. It is about the practice of trying to regulate speech by former officials by tinkering with their security clearances.”

“There are rules and regulations under which circumstances they should be removed,” he added. “None say they should be removed if the holder of the security clearance annoys the president.”


Adkindo - I posted this on the previous page after your questioning motives of intelligence officials.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

Starting to think that the endgame is flat out treason. Not conspiracy not collusion. Just what it should be. If it's decided that the cyber attack is an act of war then let him pay the price of wartime treason.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

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John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


It’s incendiary, but it is quite in keeping with the evidence. That’s my point. Trump does egregious, obvious things, and when people call him out on it, they’re the egregious ones. It’s the “I could shoot someone on fifth avenue” syndrome.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

Let me be clear about my angle here.....I did not vote for Trump.....I do not like Trump....he often says things that I find to be an embarrassment to the office he holds, and on top of that I am not crazy about some of his policies. At the same time, I am not please about what took place in the Justice Department since 2016, and I am 99% sure that there was no collusion with the Russian government. In a sense, I feel like a conservative without a home, but I also have never felt more free to speak my truth. I feel strongly that more damage is being done to this country by the actions of those in the Obama Justice department in his final months than could ever be accomplished by policies that could get through Congress and the current administration.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Let me be clear about my angle here.....I did not vote for Trump.....I do not like Trump....he often says things that I find to be an embarrassment to the office he holds, and on top of that I am not crazy about some of his policies. At the same time, I am not please about what took place in the Justice Department since 2016, and I am 99% sure that there was no collusion with the Russian government. In a sense, I feel like a conservative without a home, but I also have never felt more free to speak my truth. I feel strongly that more damage is being done to this country by the actions of those in the Obama Justice department in his final months than could ever be accomplished by policies that could get through Congress and the current administration.


Right up until there you sounded rational, then it all went off the tracks straight into Fox News/Right Wing disinformation talking points.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Fwiw, Brennan is a conservative, as are comey, mueller, rosenstein, and many others. He has not been engaged in partisan hot takes (that’s a tell btw, when anyone disagreeing with dear leader is reduced to a partisan), but rather strong disagreement with an out of control novice.


no, this is not a hot take....

Quote:
John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan
Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

11:52 AM - Jul 16, 2018


It’s incendiary, but it is quite in keeping with the evidence. That’s my point. Trump does egregious, obvious things, and when people call him out on it, they’re the egregious ones. It’s the “I could shoot someone on fifth avenue” syndrome.


I can't help but find it ironic that many that are so upset about what Trump said that day had no issue with Obama getting caught on a hot mic telling President Medvedev to let Putin know he would have more flexibility after the election.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

You know that is not the point I am making, nor am I defending anyone...this is a free country and I have no problem with you making that statement.....but I very much have an issue with the former CIA Director who still holds top level security clearance irresponsibly tossing that into the public arena without providing an ounce of tangible evidence.


Putting Trump's actions to the side, and then judging Brennan to a high standard.
That's a difficult argument to make.
It's like blaming a person for falling after someone else punched them.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject:

Yeah, not falling for the I’m not a trump supporter, but let me give you his wildly dishonest song note for note. Anyone who is 99% certain there was no collusion, when we already have publicly released evidence of collusion on so many fronts, and a president who acts like a lap dog for Putin even when a minor show of spine would help him, isn’t really not a supporter. You have to work really really really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt, and the whole obama justice department canard kind of seals the Trojan horse you built that has a sign around its neck saying, “hey, we’re inside!”
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Let me be clear about my angle here.....I did not vote for Trump.....I do not like Trump....he often says things that I find to be an embarrassment to the office he holds, and on top of that I am not crazy about some of his policies. At the same time, I am not please about what took place in the Justice Department since 2016, and I am 99% sure that there was no collusion with the Russian government. In a sense, I feel like a conservative without a home, but I also have never felt more free to speak my truth. I feel strongly that more damage is being done to this country by the actions of those in the Obama Justice department in his final months than could ever be accomplished by policies that could get through Congress and the current administration.


Right up until there you sounded rational, then it all went off the tracks straight into Fox News/Right Wing disinformation talking points.


that is the issue of the day....my opinion, my source of news, my talking points are rational......anyone who does not share my opinion, gets news from a different source, and has different talking points equates to irrational.

I could provide 100's of points to support my thoughts.....and I am sure you would have 100's of rebuttals for those points. It is probably in both of our best interests, and the value of our time to just acknowledge we disagree.....or strongly disagree in some areas of all that makes up the special council investigation.

I will say this.....if Mueller finds material acts of collusion involving the president......I will be pleased. If Mueller does not find material acts of collusion involving the president, I will still be pleased. I do not get the feeling most liberals can make that claim.....I actually think my dear mother may lose her mind if Mueller finds no evidence against Trump.
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