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tox
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 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Kavanaugh Was ‘Aggressive And Belligerent’ When Drunk, His Yale Roommate Says
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| Quote: | | Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh’s freshman roommate at Yale University came forward late Monday, describing Kavanaugh as “a heavy drinker” who became “aggressive and belligerent” when drunk. |
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Kavanaugh is a typical frat bro/ jock. All of us know the type from college. This is exactly why Dr. Ford's allegations should be given the proper treatment instead of being dismissed as a hit job; given what kind of person Kavanaugh is, it wouldn't surprise at all to see him take advantage of things especially when he was durnk.
I should add the hypocrisy of him being such a religious zealot in his jurisprudence is further evidence that the conservative defense of religion is less about spirituality and God and more about maintaining privilege in a world where WASP (and male, for that matter) privilege is slowly eroding. True believers are usually not getting hammered in college (I have quite a few very Christian friends and they've never gotten drunk), and if they had they would be contrite about it similar to Obama's reflection on his drug use. |
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Gabriel Debenedetti Verified account @gdebenedetti
Sensing a theme in this week's Senate polls:
FL: Nelson (D) +17 over Scott (R) among women [Quinnipiac]
AZ: Sinema (D) +15 over McSally (R) among women [Marist]
MI: Stabenow (D) +24 over James (R) among women [Mitchell]
WI: Baldwin (D) +27 over Vukmir (R) among women [Marquette] |
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Thank god for women. |
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The Thief
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
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If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Thief wrote: | | Quote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
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If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
this is not directed at the poster, but the playbook is always the same....find a moral high ground, then simply claim anyone that you oppose fits into the category you righteously oppose. For example, if that was the original posters strategy, he or she will always fit anyone they oppose into the categories of "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted"....thus always pretending to stand on the moral high ground. The left has utilized this script for decades.
It has became the foundation of most leftist groups. Consider Antifa....they claim to oppose fascism....as if that is "niche" that needs served. It is like saying I am opposed to spoiled milk and headaches...but in this scenario, Antifa claims every milk they do not like is spoiled...thus giving them reason to oppose. Antifa has nothing to do with being against fascism....they are just far left lightweight militant thugs that are angry over living in their parents basement, and have little else to do with their time. These groups all hide behind some selected fictitious moral high ground, but their only purpose is to defame, destroy and intimidate anyone or group that will not provide them with the votes they need to accumulate power. They are all about being against discrimination, yet they push discriminatory policies....they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....they are the one true champions of female victims, unless your name is Juanita Broaddrick, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey or the former girlfriend of the Deputy Chair of the Democratic National Committee.
Just go through media on left wing sites of elections, nominations or support groups for several decades. This one is racist, that one is sexist, he is a bigot, she is ignorant, he is both sexist and racist. It began to become more extreme after the 2000 election, and then 2016 took it to another whole level. Anytime the left loses an election, a tantrum is thrown. In 2000, the Supreme Court stole the election....in 2016, the Russians stole the election.
So yes, one way or the other, if you will not help them gain power, you must be "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted". It is just your role in their game. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Thief wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
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If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
You’re completely missing the point (no surprise). The men CL is describing are not only white, they are the men in power. More importantly, they are in power because they are white. CL isn’t ranting about random white men. She is quite clearly and accurately pointing out the societal problems that a specific group of men present, and the privilege that allows it to happen.
_________________
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He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
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Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I kind of want Kavanaugh to get confirmed, and then removed later. |
As long as he's off the bench before having to make a ruling regarding Trump being above the law. |
I wish I could be so optimistic. Until we see 67 Democrats seated in the Senate, I just don't see it, and even with 67 it would be a long shot. For the Republicans, if they confirm him, it is obvious they accept his behavior past and present, so I don't expect a change of heart once they get him in.
I don't believe a single SCOTUS justice has ever been convicted via impeachment.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | LarryCoon wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I kind of want Kavanaugh to get confirmed, and then removed later. |
As long as he's off the bench before having to make a ruling regarding Trump being above the law. |
I wish I could be so optimistic. Until we see 67 Democrats seated in the Senate, I just don't see it, and even with 67 it would be a long shot. For the Republicans, if they confirm him, it is obvious they accept his behavior past and present, so I don't expect a change of heart once they get him in.
I don't believe a single SCOTUS justice has ever been convicted via impeachment. |
Agreed. Once Kavaugh is in the seat, he’s in the seat. Done deal.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | LarryCoon wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I kind of want Kavanaugh to get confirmed, and then removed later. |
As long as he's off the bench before having to make a ruling regarding Trump being above the law. |
I wish I could be so optimistic. Until we see 67 Democrats seated in the Senate, I just don't see it, and even with 67 it would be a long shot. For the Republicans, if they confirm him, it is obvious they accept his behavior past and present, so I don't expect a change of heart once they get him in.
I don't believe a single SCOTUS justice has ever been convicted via impeachment. |
Agreed. Once Kavaugh is in the seat, he’s in the seat. Done deal. |
If Kavanaugh is confirmed and more allegations go off, I can see some Republicans voting to impeach if there is enough court packing momentum. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: |
If Kavanaugh is confirmed and more allegations go off, I can see some Republicans voting to impeach if there is enough court packing momentum. |
19 victims of Trump's sexual misconduct have come forward publicly.
How many would Kavanaugh need?
We can't assume anyone in the GOP has integrity or shame. GOP would rather watch us pack the court then admit they were wrong. Plus it sets precedence for them to pack the court their next chance possible.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Rachel Mitchell named as prosecutor set to question Brett Kanavaugh accuser Christine Blasey Ford
LINK
Who Is Rachel Mitchell, the Prosecutor Set to Question Christine Blasey Ford?
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| Quote: | First of all, Ms. Mitchell is a prosecutor — and she has been one since 1993, according to Mr. Grassley’s statement.
Second, she works in the Maricopa County attorney’s office in Arizona. (And yes, that is the very same Maricopa County where Joe Arpaio was sheriff from 1993 to 2017.)
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Also, she's a Republican.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | The Thief wrote: | | Quote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
|
If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
this is not directed at the poster, but the playbook is always the same....find a moral high ground, then simply claim anyone that you oppose fits into the category you righteously oppose. For example, if that was the original posters strategy, he or she will always fit anyone they oppose into the categories of "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted"....thus always pretending to stand on the moral high ground. The left has utilized this script for decades.
It has became the foundation of most leftist groups. Consider Antifa....they claim to oppose fascism....as if that is "niche" that needs served. It is like saying I am opposed to spoiled milk and headaches...but in this scenario, Antifa claims every milk they do not like is spoiled...thus giving them reason to oppose. Antifa has nothing to do with being against fascism....they are just far left lightweight militant thugs that are angry over living in their parents basement, and have little else to do with their time. These groups all hide behind some selected fictitious moral high ground, but their only purpose is to defame, destroy and intimidate anyone or group that will not provide them with the votes they need to accumulate power. They are all about being against discrimination, yet they push discriminatory policies....they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....they are the one true champions of female victims, unless your name is Juanita Broaddrick, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey or the former girlfriend of the Deputy Chair of the Democratic National Committee.
Just go through media on left wing sites of elections, nominations or support groups for several decades. This one is racist, that one is sexist, he is a bigot, she is ignorant, he is both sexist and racist. It began to become more extreme after the 2000 election, and then 2016 took it to another whole level. Anytime the left loses an election, a tantrum is thrown. In 2000, the Supreme Court stole the election....in 2016, the Russians stole the election.
So yes, one way or the other, if you will not help them gain power, you must be "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted". It is just your role in their game. |
Aren’t you just being a version of your opening thesis yourself?
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | tox wrote: |
If Kavanaugh is confirmed and more allegations go off, I can see some Republicans voting to impeach if there is enough court packing momentum. |
19 victims of Trump's sexual misconduct have come forward publicly.
How many would Kavanaugh need?
We can't assume anyone in the GOP has integrity or shame. GOP would rather watch us pack the court then admit they were wrong. Plus it sets precedence for them to pack the court their next chance possible. |
Yeah I wouldn't imagine them to have integrity or shame. I think it's simple self-interest. You are right the GOP would retaliate with court packing so I have no idea what the party calculus would ultimately be. But I think it would cause some Republicans to consider impeaching him. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:55 am Post subject: |
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It's funny when a Trump supporter tries to take the moral high ground. The GOP base are victims of the "fake news". 
Trump and his party may act inappropriately. And they may repeatedly show their prejudice. But the "real problem" is informed people identifying the GOP's bad behavior. 
It's like blaming the fire department for showing up to a fire. Because the fire didn't exist until they showed up and started spraying water everywhere.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | The Thief wrote: | | Quote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
|
If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
this is not directed at the poster, but the playbook is always the same....find a moral high ground, then simply claim anyone that you oppose fits into the category you righteously oppose. For example, if that was the original posters strategy, he or she will always fit anyone they oppose into the categories of "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted"....thus always pretending to stand on the moral high ground. The left has utilized this script for decades.
It has became the foundation of most leftist groups. Consider Antifa....they claim to oppose fascism....as if that is "niche" that needs served. It is like saying I am opposed to spoiled milk and headaches...but in this scenario, Antifa claims every milk they do not like is spoiled...thus giving them reason to oppose. Antifa has nothing to do with being against fascism....they are just far left lightweight militant thugs that are angry over living in their parents basement, and have little else to do with their time. These groups all hide behind some selected fictitious moral high ground, but their only purpose is to defame, destroy and intimidate anyone or group that will not provide them with the votes they need to accumulate power. They are all about being against discrimination, yet they push discriminatory policies....they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....they are the one true champions of female victims, unless your name is Juanita Broaddrick, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey or the former girlfriend of the Deputy Chair of the Democratic National Committee.
Just go through media on left wing sites of elections, nominations or support groups for several decades. This one is racist, that one is sexist, he is a bigot, she is ignorant, he is both sexist and racist. It began to become more extreme after the 2000 election, and then 2016 took it to another whole level. Anytime the left loses an election, a tantrum is thrown. In 2000, the Supreme Court stole the election....in 2016, the Russians stole the election.
So yes, one way or the other, if you will not help them gain power, you must be "willfully ignorant, racist, sexist or bigoted". It is just your role in their game. |
Sounds like a nothing group that shouldn't get you so agitated then.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm over here looking at a prep school bro's Northwestern Mutual calendar from 1982 like I'm (bleep) Robert Langdon. This country is in such a ridiculous place right now.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | It's funny when a Trump supporter tries to take the moral high ground. The GOP base are victims of the "fake news".
Trump and his party may act inappropriately. And they may repeatedly show their prejudice. But the "real problem" is informed people identifying the GOP's bad behavior.
It's like blaming the fire department for showing up to a fire. Because the fire didn't exist until they showed up and started spraying water everywhere. |
For my friends who are GOP, at this point it's become an "at all costs" proposition. The syllogism is the following in their minds:
1. get a GOP president, even if Trump.
2. that GOP president will select a staunch GOP-aligned Justice.
3. they now have 5 reliably GOP-aligned votes on the SC.
"At all costs" is what I'm hearing. Even from so-called Christian GOP voters. The rallying cry used to be that the person they supported had to be aligned with their moral and religious values, but many have dispensed with that and are seeking purely political goals now. That's why Trump was elected with an overwhelmingly white Evangelical approval (almost 90%) and they don't care about Kav even if he did what he is accused of.
At all costs...
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: |
they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....
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I can see why most of what you post are talking points and not facts, for what you say above is hogwash--really worse, but let's not push the filter.
Since Teddy Roosevelt, Obama had the fewest EO's per year. He had only one EU that originated while he was in office that was blocked, but even here it was a 4-4 vote.
(Oh, and turning to opinion only, yes, the SCOTUS intervened in a state election, in a non-presidential move, with four of the five affirming justices being appointed by Bush's father or his father's administration as a VP (with the fifth being appointed as the chief by the same), depriving Gore his right by Florida law (a state right), to challenge votes. And as for the most recent election, who can say which factor turned it for Trump, his illegal action against Stormy as a co-conspirator, the various Russian attacks, or Comey's press conference.)
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The Thief wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
Whoosh. I don't hate old white men. I have great disdain for willfully ignorant, racist, sexist, bigoted old white men.
|
If that's the case then I think you should stop purposely calling out skin color. You've done it numerous times in this thread and it's inflammatory. If you don't agree read back your comment and replace it with any other ethnicity and tell me you would be fine with it. |
You’re completely missing the point (no surprise). The men CL is describing are not only white, they are the men in power. More importantly, they are in power because they are white. CL isn’t ranting about random white men. She is quite clearly and accurately pointing out the societal problems that a specific group of men present, and the privilege that allows it to happen. |
Thank you. When the people with 99% of the power in this country are elite rich white males, it would be awfully naive not to notice that fact when trying discuss or advocate for more equality. Look, I have equal disdain for people who reside in that 99% power structure who happen to not be white or male (Clarence Thomas, Marsha Blackburn). But we were talking about the the Senate Judiciary Committee that is 100% rich white and male.
And I am white. I am not using white as a slur, I'm using it as an accurate descriptor. |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: |
they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....
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I can see why most of what you post are talking points and not facts, for what you say above is hogwash--really worse, but let's not push the filter.
Since Teddy Roosevelt, Obama had the fewest EO's per year. He had only one EU that originated while he was in office that was blocked, but even here it was a 4-4 vote.
(Oh, and turning to opinion only, yes, the SCOTUS intervened in a state election, in a non-presidential move, with four of the five affirming justices being appointed by Bush's father or his father's administration as a VP (with the fifth being appointed as the chief by the same), depriving Gore his right by Florida law (a state right), to challenge votes. And as for the most recent election, who can say which factor turned it for Trump, his illegal action against Stormy as a co-conspirator, the various Russian attacks, or Comey's press conference.) |
Ribeye, you do realize you’re responding to a poster who lies about voting for Trump, yes? This poster won’t even be honest about his own views/ values much less anything else. Don’t waste your time. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | It's funny when a Trump supporter tries to take the moral high ground. The GOP base are victims of the "fake news".
Trump and his party may act inappropriately. And they may repeatedly show their prejudice. But the "real problem" is informed people identifying the GOP's bad behavior.
It's like blaming the fire department for showing up to a fire. Because the fire didn't exist until they showed up and started spraying water everywhere. |
For my friends who are GOP, at this point it's become an "at all costs" proposition. The syllogism is the following in their minds:
1. get a GOP president, even if Trump.
2. that GOP president will select a staunch GOP-aligned Justice.
3. they now have 5 reliably GOP-aligned votes on the SC.
"At all costs" is what I'm hearing. Even from so-called Christian GOP voters. The rallying cry used to be that the person they supported had to be aligned with their moral and religious values, but many have dispensed with that and are seeking purely political goals now. That's why Trump was elected with an overwhelmingly white Evangelical approval (almost 90%) and they don't care about Kav even if he did what he is accused of.
At all costs... |
Precisely. It's about solidifying and codifying white privilege/power now so that when the demographics tip and they are no longer the majority in this country, they will still rule from the minority position. I didn't make that up. It's a part of their stated strategy. It's why people voted for Trump. It's why they still support him. It's all of the things you just mentioned. But if I point that out using terms like "white male privilege" I'm a filthy leftist.
As we approach the majority/minority tipping point, those who perceive they have something to lose (white privilege) will become increasingly agitated and fearful. I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better. |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: |
they claim this President acts like a "dictator", yet they remained silent as the previous president signed executive order after executive order, often getting overturned by the Supreme Court including several unanimous decisions....
|
I can see why most of what you post are talking points and not facts, for what you say above is hogwash--really worse, but let's not push the filter.
Since Teddy Roosevelt, Obama had the fewest EO's per year. He had only one EU that originated while he was in office that was blocked, but even here it was a 4-4 vote.
(Oh, and turning to opinion only, yes, the SCOTUS intervened in a state election, in a non-presidential move, with four of the five affirming justices being appointed by Bush's father or his father's administration as a VP (with the fifth being appointed as the chief by the same), depriving Gore his right by Florida law (a state right), to challenge votes. And as for the most recent election, who can say which factor turned it for Trump, his illegal action against Stormy as a co-conspirator, the various Russian attacks, or Comey's press conference.) |
Ribeye, you do realize you’re responding to a poster who lies about voting for Trump, yes? This poster won’t even be honest about his own views/ values much less anything else. Don’t waste your time. |
My posts are generally for all. Yes, this poster--I originally (Freudianly) typed, poser--appears to be so thoroughly corrupted by their beliefs that objectivity is rare, but others may not realize the actual facts that pertain to a comment.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | It's funny when a Trump supporter tries to take the moral high ground. The GOP base are victims of the "fake news".
Trump and his party may act inappropriately. And they may repeatedly show their prejudice. But the "real problem" is informed people identifying the GOP's bad behavior.
It's like blaming the fire department for showing up to a fire. Because the fire didn't exist until they showed up and started spraying water everywhere. |
For my friends who are GOP, at this point it's become an "at all costs" proposition. The syllogism is the following in their minds:
1. get a GOP president, even if Trump.
2. that GOP president will select a staunch GOP-aligned Justice.
3. they now have 5 reliably GOP-aligned votes on the SC.
"At all costs" is what I'm hearing. Even from so-called Christian GOP voters. The rallying cry used to be that the person they supported had to be aligned with their moral and religious values, but many have dispensed with that and are seeking purely political goals now. That's why Trump was elected with an overwhelmingly white Evangelical approval (almost 90%) and they don't care about Kav even if he did what he is accused of.
At all costs... |
Precisely. It's about solidifying and codifying white privilege/power now so that when the demographics tip and they are no longer the majority in this country, they will still rule from the minority position. I didn't make that up. It's a part of their stated strategy. It's why people voted for Trump. It's why they still support him. It's all of the things you just mentioned. But if I point that out using terms like "white male privilege" I'm a filthy leftist.
As we approach the majority/minority tipping point, those who perceive they have something to lose (white privilege) will become increasingly agitated and fearful. I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better. |
Yup. Preserve economic inequities, stack the court to advance pro-corporation laws, etc. If you can't outpopulate "them," then rule by judicial and legislative fiat.
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ChefLinda
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Trumponomics:
| Quote: | Brian Schatz Verified account @brianschatz
We are borrowing money from China to pay our farmers to not sell their crops to China.
| Quote: | | U.S. farmers will soon begin receiving government checks as part of a billion-dollar bailout to buoy growers experiencing financial strain from Pres. Trump's trade disputes with China. https://abcn.ws/2xAJWw8 |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Trumponomics:
| Quote: | Brian Schatz Verified account @brianschatz
We are borrowing money from China to pay our farmers to not sell their crops to China.
| Quote: | | U.S. farmers will soon begin receiving government checks as part of a billion-dollar bailout to buoy growers experiencing financial strain from Pres. Trump's trade disputes with China. https://abcn.ws/2xAJWw8 |
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a billion dollar bail out... for how many farmer family? Personally this $ would be better used somewhere else |
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