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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

How many Republicans and we are having trouble finding even one with Honor and Integrity
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

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Again I disagree with the jist that McCain was just like all the rest. McCain/Feingold was an attempt to throttle the corporatocracy and their power over US citizens--besides global warming, probably the greatest issue we face. Without McCain, Obamacare would be done. I do see a straight line from Bush to Trump, and even before, but I don't see McCain in that same vein--nor do many Republicans.


Trumpism didn't just show up out of nowhere. It was first lent credibility and endorsement from John McCain and his 08 campaign. That he, and the press, and establishment Democrats revered him as a hero doesn't change the fact. Go back and watch tape of his rallies. He used his platform to inject Sarah Palin into the political bloodstream. The fringe didn't break down the door. John McCain opened it for them.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject:

McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA. Other than that? He voted for all of it. Sure, he expressed concern and was an epic eyebrow furrower, but he was complicit. They might not have been his ideas or ideals, but he supported each and every one of them.

I'm not sure how many of the republican congressmen are self aware enough to realize that this is their legacy. No matter what good they may have done in other times, this is going to be what they are remembered for first and foremost. I might eventually think of McCain's time as a POW, but first and foremost, he was a bootlicker for a tyrant.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:

Quote:
McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA.


Call me cynical, but I think McCain's ACA theatrics (including his "wait for the show" comments before his thumbs down) was more about solidifying his image and legacy among his true base: Democrats. He knew his time was running out and he knew who romanticized him most.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
Again I disagree with the jist that McCain was just like all the rest. McCain/Feingold was an attempt to throttle the corporatocracy and their power over US citizens--besides global warming, probably the greatest issue we face. Without McCain, Obamacare would be done. I do see a straight line from Bush to Trump, and even before, but I don't see McCain in that same vein--nor do many Republicans.


Trumpism didn't just show up out of nowhere. It was first lent credibility and endorsement from John McCain and his 08 campaign. That he, and the press, and establishment Democrats revered him as a hero doesn't change the fact. Go back and watch tape of his rallies. He used his platform to inject Sarah Palin into the political bloodstream. The fringe didn't break down the door. John McCain opened it for them.


I vividly remember those people and their hatred when interviewed, and yes, it is was the first time in awhile I saw such a horror show. But it didn't begin there. I remember the sixties well. As the the counter culture blended into the Civil Rights movement, and grew into the mainstream with the Vietnam protests, the right, the silent majority as Nixon called them, became vocal with their hatred.

What I don't remember is McCain encouraging his followers as you suggest. Yes, I suppose he wanted enthusiasm, as does any politician, but I don't remember him acting anywhere near like Trump: fostering hatred, bigotry or racism. As a matter of fact, he prohibited Palin from some of the inflammatory rhetoric she wanted to use.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I get that Saudi Arabia is a strategic ally both militarily and economically, and no, we don't want Russia or China taking over that relationship.


So, if the US Congress votes to sanction Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia objects and stomps their feet, and says they are cutting ties with the US, what say ye?


I don't see SA ever cutting ties with us. They need us to buy their oil. And they'll need us if they want to build the post-oil, tech-based economy their leaders have promised the citizens.


Saudi’s can stop using the petro dollar tomorrow and the dollar value and US are finished. We’re not doing anything to the Saudi’s except for a little Trump posturing and babbling


In recent years, the US has supposedly been producing volumes of crude that rival the output from Saudi Arabia. US also has the world's largest emergency crude supply. They store it (and natural gas) in gigantic underground salt domes. There are articles about the US producing enough crude to become self-sufficient in energy, but they'll never intentionally sever their ability to import crude from OPEC. Buying it is easier than producing it and, from what I gather, even if the US has the crude to survive a protracted crisis with OPEC, it has to rely on a system and agreements with other nations to attain the refined products of crude that the US actually consumes per day. Other countries with a more precarious relationship with OPEC nations have gone a step further to store actual gasoline and jet fuel along with crude oil.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Again I disagree with the jist that McCain was just like all the rest. McCain/Feingold was an attempt to throttle the corporatocracy and their power over US citizens--besides global warming, probably the greatest issue we face. Without McCain, Obamacare would be done. I do see a straight line from Bush to Trump, and even before, but I don't see McCain in that same vein--nor do many Republicans.


Trumpism didn't just show up out of nowhere. It was first lent credibility and endorsement from John McCain and his 08 campaign. That he, and the press, and establishment Democrats revered him as a hero doesn't change the fact. Go back and watch tape of his rallies. He used his platform to inject Sarah Palin into the political bloodstream. The fringe didn't break down the door. John McCain opened it for them.


I vividly remember those people and their hatred when interviewed, and yes, it is was the first time in awhile I saw such a horror show. But it didn't begin there. I remember the sixties well. As the the counter culture blended into the Civil Rights movement, and grew into the mainstream with the Vietnam protests, the right, the silent majority as Nixon called them, became vocal with their hatred.

What I don't remember is McCain encouraging his followers as you suggest. Yes, I suppose he wanted enthusiasm, as does any politician, but I don't remember him acting anywhere near like Trump: fostering hatred, bigotry or racism. As a matter of fact, he prohibited Palin from some of the inflammatory rhetoric she wanted to use.


That was more along the lines of 'we don't say that in mixed company' than it was 'that is wrong'.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Again I disagree with the jist that McCain was just like all the rest. McCain/Feingold was an attempt to throttle the corporatocracy and their power over US citizens--besides global warming, probably the greatest issue we face. Without McCain, Obamacare would be done. I do see a straight line from Bush to Trump, and even before, but I don't see McCain in that same vein--nor do many Republicans.


Trumpism didn't just show up out of nowhere. It was first lent credibility and endorsement from John McCain and his 08 campaign. That he, and the press, and establishment Democrats revered him as a hero doesn't change the fact. Go back and watch tape of his rallies. He used his platform to inject Sarah Palin into the political bloodstream. The fringe didn't break down the door. John McCain opened it for them.


I vividly remember those people and their hatred when interviewed, and yes, it is was the first time in awhile I saw such a horror show. But it didn't begin there. I remember the sixties well. As the the counter culture blended into the Civil Rights movement, and grew into the mainstream with the Vietnam protests, the right, the silent majority as Nixon called them, became vocal with their hatred.

What I don't remember is McCain encouraging his followers as you suggest. Yes, I suppose he wanted enthusiasm, as does any politician, but I don't remember him acting anywhere near like Trump: fostering hatred, bigotry or racism. As a matter of fact, he prohibited Palin from some of the inflammatory rhetoric she wanted to use.


That was more along the lines of 'we don't say that in mixed company' than it was 'that is wrong'.


Yep. People who object to Trump strictly on style points aren't heroic or Noble. They're complicit. Giving him points for prohibiting Palin (HIS chosen VP) from being even worse is, again, lowering the bar beneath the Earth's crust.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject:

Well, when you invite Sarah Palin to be your running mate, you lose your credibility. The fact that he wasn't out there saying outrageous, bigoted stuff doesn't absolve him of anything.

But this Trumpism phenomenon didn't start with McCain/Palin either. The white backlash began with Goldwater and Trump is the logical conclusion of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA.


Call me cynical, but I think McCain's ACA theatrics (including his "wait for the show" comments before his thumbs down) was more about solidifying his image and legacy among his true base: Democrats. He knew his time was running out and he knew who romanticized him most.


I guess we assimilate what we read and watch differently. First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.

There is the ACA vote, that was HUGE. There was his campaign reform bill that was totally antithetical to Trump, the Federalist society and their judges. He did not coddle Putin or Kim Jong-un. He worked with Kennedy on real immigration reform--nor exactly what I would want, but bipartisanship does not work that way. He supported Khan, asking Trump if he had read the constitution. He defended Huma Abidin on the Senate floor. He was against Bush's torture tactics--which, I'll surmise, are timid compared to Trump's. He was a good American and devoted himself to this country; Trump devotes himself to his ego and the dollar. I don't remember him saying once, lock her up. And, I'm not going to say he was a racist or bigot (except maybe against those he fought against) without knowing.

Here I must speculate but this is based on what I've heard, Sarah Palin was quite the unknown and had he got to see who she really was, he would have never picked her.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject:

Once again...it's not about trump lying about a caravan coming to vote for Democrats it's about who the f*** is he's talking to...THAT'S THE STORY

Go out and find out what's wrong with these people.


And MSNBC instead of complaining that the Dems have no message report the facts like job and economic growth is almost double with Democratic presidents than it is for republicans at the top of the hour instead of the trump bumpersticker ish about mobs every hour


\rant
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject:

Birth of a nation ---> slavery ---> civil war ---> KKK ---> Jim Crow laws ---> Civil rights movement ---> John Birch society ---> Nixon southern strategy ---> George Wallace ---> Reagan welfare queens ---> Bush Willie Horton ad ---> Fox News/Rush Limbaugh ---> McCain/Palin ----> Alt Right/Neo Nazis ---> Birtherism ---> Romney birther jokes ---> Tea Party ---> Trump

Our original sin created a wound that never healed, and the scab gets ripped away. Over and over. Just when you think it's almost died with the last generation, here it comes again. After the civil rights legislation passed, the parties realigned themselves -- most of the angry racist Democrats left and joined the Republican party. The Republicans embraced them with open arms and have been playing to them ever since. The stoking of racial fears is the core strategy of the Republican party which they use to maintain power so they can enrich themselves and the 1%.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA.


Call me cynical, but I think McCain's ACA theatrics (including his "wait for the show" comments before his thumbs down) was more about solidifying his image and legacy among his true base: Democrats. He knew his time was running out and he knew who romanticized him most.


I guess we assimilate what we read and watch differently. First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.

There is the ACA vote, that was HUGE. There was his campaign reform bill that was totally antithetical to Trump, the Federalist society and their judges. He did not coddle Putin or Kim Jong-un. He worked with Kennedy on real immigration reform--nor exactly what I would want, but bipartisanship does not work that way. He supported Khan, asking Trump if he had read the constitution. He defended Huma Abidin on the Senate floor. He was against Bush's torture tactics--which, I'll surmise, are timid compared to Trump's. He was a good American and devoted himself to this country; Trump devotes himself to his ego and the dollar. I don't remember him saying once, lock her up. And, I'm not going to say he was a racist or bigot (except maybe against those he fought against) without knowing.

Here I must speculate but this is based on what I've heard, Sarah Palin was quite the unknown and had he got to see who she really was, he would have never picked her.


This is a very Rosy depiction of a horrid public servant, who caused an incredible amount of pain and suffering at home and especially abroad. Most of what you credit him for here is talk (or lack of talk) and that's how he was able to con Democrats into lionizing him. Look at his overall voting record and say again with a straight face he wasn't part of the tribe. He was a reliable vote for the Republicans and for Trump. This is why I refer to the Democrats as his true base. Any bit of hand wringing, every furrowed brow, every style point he stood up for is seen as some great victory.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA.


Call me cynical, but I think McCain's ACA theatrics (including his "wait for the show" comments before his thumbs down) was more about solidifying his image and legacy among his true base: Democrats. He knew his time was running out and he knew who romanticized him most.


I guess we assimilate what we read and watch differently. First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.

There is the ACA vote, that was HUGE. There was his campaign reform bill that was totally antithetical to Trump, the Federalist society and their judges. He did not coddle Putin or Kim Jong-un. He worked with Kennedy on real immigration reform--nor exactly what I would want, but bipartisanship does not work that way. He supported Khan, asking Trump if he had read the constitution. He defended Huma Abidin on the Senate floor. He was against Bush's torture tactics--which, I'll surmise, are timid compared to Trump's. He was a good American and devoted himself to this country; Trump devotes himself to his ego and the dollar. I don't remember him saying once, lock her up. And, I'm not going to say he was a racist or bigot (except maybe against those he fought against) without knowing.

Here I must speculate but this is based on what I've heard, Sarah Palin was quite the unknown and had he got to see who she really was, he would have never picked her.


This is a very Rosy depiction of a horrid public servant, who caused an incredible amount of pain and suffering at home and especially abroad. Most of what you credit him for here is talk (or lack of talk) and that's how he was able to con Democrats into lionizing him. Look at his overall voting record and say again with a straight face he wasn't part of the tribe. He was a reliable vote for the Republicans and for Trump. This is why I refer to the Democrats as his true base. Any bit of hand wringing, every furrowed brow, every style point he stood up for is seen as some great victory.


Again, we assimilate what we read differently. This is what I said: First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
McCain went along with everything that Trump has done with one exception, repealing ACA.


Call me cynical, but I think McCain's ACA theatrics (including his "wait for the show" comments before his thumbs down) was more about solidifying his image and legacy among his true base: Democrats. He knew his time was running out and he knew who romanticized him most.


I guess we assimilate what we read and watch differently. First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.

There is the ACA vote, that was HUGE. There was his campaign reform bill that was totally antithetical to Trump, the Federalist society and their judges. He did not coddle Putin or Kim Jong-un. He worked with Kennedy on real immigration reform--nor exactly what I would want, but bipartisanship does not work that way. He supported Khan, asking Trump if he had read the constitution. He defended Huma Abidin on the Senate floor. He was against Bush's torture tactics--which, I'll surmise, are timid compared to Trump's. He was a good American and devoted himself to this country; Trump devotes himself to his ego and the dollar. I don't remember him saying once, lock her up. And, I'm not going to say he was a racist or bigot (except maybe against those he fought against) without knowing.

Here I must speculate but this is based on what I've heard, Sarah Palin was quite the unknown and had he got to see who she really was, he would have never picked her.


This is a very Rosy depiction of a horrid public servant, who caused an incredible amount of pain and suffering at home and especially abroad. Most of what you credit him for here is talk (or lack of talk) and that's how he was able to con Democrats into lionizing him. Look at his overall voting record and say again with a straight face he wasn't part of the tribe. He was a reliable vote for the Republicans and for Trump. This is why I refer to the Democrats as his true base. Any bit of hand wringing, every furrowed brow, every style point he stood up for is seen as some great victory.


Again, we assimilate what we read differently. This is what I said: First, McCain is a Republican so he's got that against him, but he is not part of that tribe in many ways.


I read and assimilated it fine. My post was about his actual record and pushing back on your idea that he was a thorn in his party's side when he was anything but. With very few exceptions he voted with the tribe consistently, including Trump. You don't get to vote that consistently with your tribe AND get credit as a Maverick. The bulk of your credits in his favor are style points. He even gets points for NOT saying certain things. He never said lock her up? What a guy.

McCain continues to con Democrats from the grave. The world was a worse place because he served it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject:

Pre-Trump the GOP were prejudice towards women, people of color, the poor, and LGBTQ communities.
But those prejudices were somewhat closeted. Still apparent to any one willing to research the issues. But they tried to at least thinly veil it for the general public.

Trump outed the party. His rhetoric shined a spotlight on how the party felt about all those minirity groups. AND the GOP was better off politically for it. It increased tribalism and controlled the narrative among media outlets.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:


I read and assimilated it fine. My post was about his actual record and pushing back on your idea that he was a thorn in his party's side when he was anything but. With very few exceptions he voted with the tribe consistently, including Trump. You don't get to vote that consistently with your tribe AND get credit as a Maverick. The bulk of your credits in his favor are style points. He even gets points for NOT saying certain things. He never said lock her up? What a guy.

McCain continues to con Democrats from the grave. The world was a worse place because he served it.


And he was very good on TV and was very nice to the media, and the media loved him.

As his funeral was taking place, all we heard was that he "fought for his country" and that he represented "honor" and "integrity." Without context, those things mean nothing. But he was able to convince the entirety of the media and much of the Democratic Party to ignore most of his actual record.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
ocho wrote:


I read and assimilated it fine. My post was about his actual record and pushing back on your idea that he was a thorn in his party's side when he was anything but. With very few exceptions he voted with the tribe consistently, including Trump. You don't get to vote that consistently with your tribe AND get credit as a Maverick. The bulk of your credits in his favor are style points. He even gets points for NOT saying certain things. He never said lock her up? What a guy.

McCain continues to con Democrats from the grave. The world was a worse place because he served it.


And he was very good on TV and was very nice to the media, and the media loved him.

As his funeral was taking place, all we heard was that he "fought for his country" and that he represented "honor" and "integrity." Without context, those things mean nothing. But he was able to convince the entirety of the media and much of the Democratic Party to ignore most of his actual record.



And what sucks most is our Educational system doesn't warn us or teach us how to clearly represent sociopaths and pathological liars

I knew I could find some John McCain agreeing to allow US to torture Arabs...

https://thinkprogress.org/mccain-sides-with-bush-on-torture-again-supports-veto-of-anti-waterboarding-bill-d919cbc44131/
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ocho wrote:


I read and assimilated it fine. My post was about his actual record and pushing back on your idea that he was a thorn in his party's side when he was anything but. With very few exceptions he voted with the tribe consistently, including Trump. You don't get to vote that consistently with your tribe AND get credit as a Maverick. The bulk of your credits in his favor are style points. He even gets points for NOT saying certain things. He never said lock her up? What a guy.

McCain continues to con Democrats from the grave. The world was a worse place because he served it.


And he was very good on TV and was very nice to the media, and the media loved him.

As his funeral was taking place, all we heard was that he "fought for his country" and that he represented "honor" and "integrity." Without context, those things mean nothing. But he was able to convince the entirety of the media and much of the Democratic Party to ignore most of his actual record.



And what sucks most is our Educational system doesn't warn us or teach us how to clearly represent sociopaths and pathological liars

I knew I could find some John McCain agreeing to allow US to torture Arabs...

https://thinkprogress.org/mccain-sides-with-bush-on-torture-again-supports-veto-of-anti-waterboarding-bill-d919cbc44131/


It is interesting being on the other side here. Just recently, I told my 24 year old youngest daughter, never, NEVER EVER, vote for a Republican. She asked me if it was OK for someone else to say never, NEVER EVER, vote for a Democrat, to which I said, of course not, THAT is not OK to say. Here, the 24 year old had better reasoning to the emotional hyperbole of a frustrated old dude. (So now I say, never, NEVER EVER vote for a Republican except the rare independent one such as Murkowski, but even here be VERY careful. Doesn't have the same ring, but, her point is well taken.)

Regardless, I accept the challenge and stand by my words that McCain is not always of the same ilk as his party.

And to the point, how about this for now:

Quote:
We give McCain a No Flip on torture.


Did McCain Reverse on Torture?

If that is not good enough, try this:

http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1729891,00.html
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

^McCain's position on torture is probably the best thing you could have said about him. And yet, I can't escape the notion that had it not been for his own experiences a victim of it that he would totally have been for it. There was never an issue he didn't think could be solved with military force. Bombs and bullets were a solution to everything. I do commend him for speaking out against his party on that one, even if I feel it came from the wrong place.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
^McCain's position on torture is probably the best thing you could have said about him. And yet, I can't escape the notion that had it not been for his own experiences a victim of it that he would totally have been for it. There was never an issue he didn't think could be solved with military force. Bombs and bullets were a solution to everything. I do commend him for speaking out against his party on that one, even if I feel it came from the wrong place.


I hate to nick pick and repeat myself, but his vote on Obamacare was HUGE and McCain/Feingold was good legislation, that, as with Obamacare, was a start to something better.

Getting money out, or nearly so, of politics is probably the best single policy/legislative change that we could ever hope for. It would change everything. But, with the SCOTUS already striking down key parts of McCain/Feingold, along with a court that is to the right of John Birch, there is no hope in my lifetime.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Oh look, here are the Republicans trying to limit the Hispanic vote in Kansas.

Quote:
Ari Berman @AriBerman

There is only 1 polling place for 27,000 people in Dodge City, KS, which is 60% Hispanic, & it's being moved outside of town, 1 mile from nearest bus stop. Happening at same time Kris Kobach, one of most anti-immigrant politicians in US, running for gov


Republican Kris Kobach is running for governor at the same time he is Secy of State controlling the voting system. So in essence, he's a corrupt, cheating racist.

If Republican ideas for governing are so intrinsically great and worthwhile, why do they need to cheat to win? Shouldn't their ideas stand on their own and be voted up or down? Republicans don't want or respect democracy, they want to rule by any means necessary.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
^McCain's position on torture is probably the best thing you could have said about him. And yet, I can't escape the notion that had it not been for his own experiences a victim of it that he would totally have been for it. There was never an issue he didn't think could be solved with military force. Bombs and bullets were a solution to everything. I do commend him for speaking out against his party on that one, even if I feel it came from the wrong place.


I hate to nick pick and repeat myself, but his vote on Obamacare was HUGE and McCain/Feingold was good legislation, that, as with Obamacare, was a start to something better.

Getting money out, or nearly so, of politics is probably the best single policy/legislative change that we could ever hope for. It would change everything. But, with the SCOTUS already striking down key parts of McCain/Feingold, along with a court that is to the right of John Birch, there is no hope in my lifetime.


While I agree that getting money out of politics is a noble goal, McCain Feingold wasn't all it was cracked up to be. It created new problems and didn't solve the old ones. I am glad he voted how he did on ACA repeal, and I understand giving him a salute for it. To me though, he did it for the theater and to burnish his manufactured image. He repeatedly campaigned against ACA. His own rationale for his vote was an objection to procedure rather than a sudden crisis of conscience. Not to mention (and I know we disagree on this point) I believe we can hold him partly responsible for paving the way for the worst kind of people to grab the levers of power and undo ACA as we know it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
^McCain's position on torture is probably the best thing you could have said about him. And yet, I can't escape the notion that had it not been for his own experiences a victim of it that he would totally have been for it. There was never an issue he didn't think could be solved with military force. Bombs and bullets were a solution to everything. I do commend him for speaking out against his party on that one, even if I feel it came from the wrong place.


I hate to nick pick and repeat myself, but his vote on Obamacare was HUGE and McCain/Feingold was good legislation, that, as with Obamacare, was a start to something better.

Getting money out, or nearly so, of politics is probably the best single policy/legislative change that we could ever hope for. It would change everything. But, with the SCOTUS already striking down key parts of McCain/Feingold, along with a court that is to the right of John Birch, there is no hope in my lifetime.


McCain Feingold was a positive. His vote on Obamacare though was a fit of pique over procedure, or lack of it. He freely admitted he was willing to vote for the repeal on the merits, just as he had voted against Obamacare in the first place.

McCain was a social curmudgeon, prone to both fits of irrational anger and stubbornness, mixed with a gregarious desire to have friendships with both the press and his colleagues. So there was some desire to be beloved, but also a pretty radical, warmongering conservative who fought against a holiday for MLK jr. in there too. For the most part he was a good doctrinaire Republican, who went along with the party as it shifted further right and again as it shifted to a more radical nationalistic racism.

But he was an interesting and by all accounts fun guy to know.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
^McCain's position on torture is probably the best thing you could have said about him. And yet, I can't escape the notion that had it not been for his own experiences a victim of it that he would totally have been for it. There was never an issue he didn't think could be solved with military force. Bombs and bullets were a solution to everything. I do commend him for speaking out against his party on that one, even if I feel it came from the wrong place.


I hate to nick pick and repeat myself, but his vote on Obamacare was HUGE and McCain/Feingold was good legislation, that, as with Obamacare, was a start to something better.

Getting money out, or nearly so, of politics is probably the best single policy/legislative change that we could ever hope for. It would change everything. But, with the SCOTUS already striking down key parts of McCain/Feingold, along with a court that is to the right of John Birch, there is no hope in my lifetime.


It's just as likely McCain voted with Democrats on Obamacare because it was his way of sticking it to Trump for his vindictive personal comments. McCain could be a contrarian at times -- not necessarily for the sake of policy, but for the sake of his own ability to be the center of attention.

When his "Straight-Talk-Express" failed to win him the nomination, he came back the next time around and caved on every single one of his previous principles. He went around and bowed down to every single right-wing foundation or evangelical institution letting them know he'd do their bidding this time around. If he believed in campaign finance reform in the distant past, that belief had long since been jettisoned in favor of acquiring the nomination by any means necessary.

Was he less personally nauseating than: Trump, McConnell, Nunes, Hatch, etc? Yes. But that's not saying all that much. He was a tiny bit less bad than the rest of the herd.

(The other Republican who manages to pull this off is John Kasich -- he seems like a nice guy who is fairly polite but his policies are 100% extreme right wing. He was forced to pull back a time or two in Ohio due to protests and pressure, but again, that's not saying much.)
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