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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Listening to major news today gives me the impression Trump is in big trouble. MSNBC is reporting Mueller is investigating Trump being a knowing or unknowing Russian operative. I hear whispers of treason. I think the only thing keeping law enforcement off of Trump is the Oval Office. If he weren't president I think he'd be indicted or in jail.


Actually, I think ribeye's take is probably more the reality. The report is essentially in the past tense, indicating that there probably wasn't much there in that regard. And I have to believe that given how long ago this info was passed along, if a bomb shell like that existed and had corroborating evidence, that bomb would have gone off by now. I think this story is a non-starter. But we shall see.


Maybe. Mueller plays it so close to the vest there's really no telling what he has. I feel he's got the bomb but wants to dot all I's cross all T's before dropping it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Maybe. Mueller plays it so close to the vest there's really no telling what he has. I feel he's got the bomb but wants to dot all I's cross all T's before dropping it.


You don't play it close to the vest and draw things out when you have credible, provable evidence that the acting President of the United States is an agent of a foreign nation, especially when that nation is a adversarial power. There's too much risk for our national security it in that situation to drag your heels. Which is why I am with ribeye's assessment and would bet dollars to donuts that there's not much to this report.

My guess is this was leaked so that when the report comes down that indicates collusion on the part of Trump's campaign, they can say we have reason to believe things may have been worse but clearly Trump was an active participant in collusion. Part of why I think that is if the "foreign agent" accusation had enough evidence, there's no way they'd risk leaking such info for fear of compromising the integrity of such a monumental charge. You just wouldn't tip their hand like that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject:

Washington Post: Trump has concealed details of his face-to-face encounters with Putin from senior officials in administration

Quote:
President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Maybe. Mueller plays it so close to the vest there's really no telling what he has. I feel he's got the bomb but wants to dot all I's cross all T's before dropping it.


You don't play it close to the vest and draw things out when you have credible, provable evidence that the acting President of the United States is an agent of a foreign nation, especially when that nation is a adversarial power. There's too much risk for our national security it in that situation to drag your heels. Which is why I am with ribeye's assessment and would bet dollars to donuts that there's not much to this report.

My guess is this was leaked so that when the report comes down that indicates collusion on the part of Trump's campaign, they can say we have reason to believe things may have been worse but clearly Trump was an active participant in collusion. Part of why I think that is if the "foreign agent" accusation had enough evidence, there's no way they'd risk leaking such info for fear of compromising the integrity of such a monumental charge. You just wouldn't tip their hand like that.


There were multiple former FBI and counter intelligence agents on AM Joy this morning. They made the point that the FBI would not have opened an investigation into the President based merely on what is already in the public domain. The experts felt certain that the FBI would need hard evidence such as intelligence intercepts (foreign and domestic intercepts of conversations, emails, texts, etc.) before they would go forward with such an historical investigation. No other president has ever been suspected or investigated for being a foreign agent. We don't know what they found after they opened the investigation, but the FBI/Intel experts said you could not draw the conclusion that they found nothing simply because no criminal case has been brought forward to date.

Trump is Putin's puppet. Everything points to it. At this point the only surprise would be that he is NOT an agent, witting or unwitting, of Russia and Putin. The experts pointed out that there are most likely tons of things that they've discovered that have not gone public or been leaked. They believe we have only seen the tip of the iceberg compared to what Mueller likely knows and has evidence of.

To the degree that people are ho-hum about this shows how successful Trump has been in normalizing traitorous, criminal behavior.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Washington Post: Trump has concealed details of his face-to-face encounters with Putin from senior officials in administration

Quote:
President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference.


time for the House to call this interpreter to testify
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Oh, look. Here's someone who is taking the NYT article seriously. And he has subpoena power.

Quote:
Adam Schiff Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Counterintelligence concerns about those associated with the Trump campaign, including the President himself, have been at the heart of our investigation since the start.

The American people need to know the President is working in our national interest, and for no other end
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Maybe. Mueller plays it so close to the vest there's really no telling what he has. I feel he's got the bomb but wants to dot all I's cross all T's before dropping it.


You don't play it close to the vest and draw things out when you have credible, provable evidence that the acting President of the United States is an agent of a foreign nation, especially when that nation is a adversarial power. There's too much risk for our national security it in that situation to drag your heels. Which is why I am with ribeye's assessment and would bet dollars to donuts that there's not much to this report.

My guess is this was leaked so that when the report comes down that indicates collusion on the part of Trump's campaign, they can say we have reason to believe things may have been worse but clearly Trump was an active participant in collusion. Part of why I think that is if the "foreign agent" accusation had enough evidence, there's no way they'd risk leaking such info for fear of compromising the integrity of such a monumental charge. You just wouldn't tip their hand like that.


There were multiple former FBI and counter intelligence agents on AM Joy this morning. They made the point that the FBI would not have opened an investigation into the President based merely on what is already in the public domain. The experts felt certain that the FBI would need hard evidence such as intelligence intercepts (foreign and domestic intercepts of conversations, emails, texts, etc.) before they would go forward with such an historical investigation. No other president has ever been suspected or investigated for being a foreign agent. We don't know what they found after they opened the investigation, but the FBI/Intel experts said you could not draw the conclusion that they found nothing simply because no criminal case has been brought forward to date.

Trump is Putin's puppet. Everything points to it. At this point the only surprise would be that he is NOT an agent, witting or unwitting, of Russian and Putin. The experts pointed out that there are most likely tons of things that they've discovered that have not gone public or been leaked. They believe we have only seen the tip of the iceberg compared to what Mueller likely knows and has evidence of.

To the degree that people are ho-hum about this shows how successful Trump has been in normalizing traitorous, criminal behavior.


Please . . . the idea that I am being "ho-hum" about this is ridiculous and insulting. These are incredibly seriously charges, and thus I take them as such, not just blow them off as nothing. I have no doubt that the possibility Trump is an agent of Russia, whether by choice or by manipulation, exists. In fact I find it quite likely and no one would be happier to see such an eventuality proven. But I have to apply logic and common sense to the possibility that will come to fruition, which is why I am thinking the way I am. If there is actually a reasonable case to be proven that Trump functioned as an agent for the Russians, it would be INCREDIBLY stupid to make that aspect of the investigation known so publicly before actually presenting the case. You would undoubtedly be compromising one of the most important investigations in American history, not furthering nor bolstering it. It's one thing to say you are investigating Trump for campaign violations involving collusion and are patiently building the case. It's quite another to assert something as serious as what we are talking about. In a murder investigation you let the suspect know you are looking at them in hopes they screw up and do something stupid that provides more evidence. There is little concern that it is going to help them cover their tracks more. But in a conspiracy of the scope of an acting President serves as an agent to a foreign power is a much different matter and tipping you hand would be foolish and disastrous.

Again, I don't doubt it is likely that Trump may be so involved with the Russians to the extent he is essentially their agent. The point is, if it were a case that were actually provable, they wouldn't be releasing that aspect of the investigation for public consumption. That could only hurt the investigation and never help it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject:

I wasn't alleging that you were ho-hum.

We don't know who leaked it, but we know it probably wasn't Mueller. It was probably a disgruntled FBI or former FBI agent (likely someone who Trump has attacked).
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject:

James Comes Twitter: "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made" - FDR

Though you could argue that he's made enemies all across the board, so there's that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
James Comes Twitter: "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made" - FDR

Though you could argue that he's made enemies all across the board, so there's that.


Comey thinks he should invoke FDR now? lol
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Maybe. Mueller plays it so close to the vest there's really no telling what he has. I feel he's got the bomb but wants to dot all I's cross all T's before dropping it.


You don't play it close to the vest and draw things out when you have credible, provable evidence that the acting President of the United States is an agent of a foreign nation, especially when that nation is a adversarial power. There's too much risk for our national security it in that situation to drag your heels. Which is why I am with ribeye's assessment and would bet dollars to donuts that there's not much to this report.

My guess is this was leaked so that when the report comes down that indicates collusion on the part of Trump's campaign, they can say we have reason to believe things may have been worse but clearly Trump was an active participant in collusion. Part of why I think that is if the "foreign agent" accusation had enough evidence, there's no way they'd risk leaking such info for fear of compromising the integrity of such a monumental charge. You just wouldn't tip their hand like that.


There were multiple former FBI and counter intelligence agents on AM Joy this morning. They made the point that the FBI would not have opened an investigation into the President based merely on what is already in the public domain. The experts felt certain that the FBI would need hard evidence such as intelligence intercepts (foreign and domestic intercepts of conversations, emails, texts, etc.) before they would go forward with such an historical investigation. No other president has ever been suspected or investigated for being a foreign agent. We don't know what they found after they opened the investigation, but the FBI/Intel experts said you could not draw the conclusion that they found nothing simply because no criminal case has been brought forward to date.

Trump is Putin's puppet. Everything points to it. At this point the only surprise would be that he is NOT an agent, witting or unwitting, of Russian and Putin. The experts pointed out that there are most likely tons of things that they've discovered that have not gone public or been leaked. They believe we have only seen the tip of the iceberg compared to what Mueller likely knows and has evidence of.

To the degree that people are ho-hum about this shows how successful Trump has been in normalizing traitorous, criminal behavior.


Please . . . the idea that I am being "ho-hum" about this is ridiculous and insulting. These are incredibly seriously charges, and thus I take them as such, not just blow them off as nothing. I have no doubt that the possibility Trump is an agent of Russia, whether by choice or by manipulation, exists. In fact I find it quite likely and no one would be happier to see such an eventuality proven. But I have to apply logic and common sense to the possibility that will come to fruition, which is why I am thinking the way I am. If there is actually a reasonable case to be proven that Trump functioned as an agent for the Russians, it would be INCREDIBLY stupid to make that aspect of the investigation known so publicly before actually presenting the case. You would undoubtedly be compromising one of the most important investigations in American history, not furthering nor bolstering it. It's one thing to say you are investigating Trump for campaign violations involving collusion and are patiently building the case. It's quite another to assert something as serious as what we are talking about. In a murder investigation you let the suspect know you are looking at them in hopes they screw up and do something stupid that provides more evidence. There is little concern that it is going to help them cover their tracks more. But in a conspiracy of the scope of an acting President serves as an agent to a foreign power is a much different matter and tipping you hand would be foolish and disastrous.

Again, I don't doubt it is likely that Trump may be so involved with the Russians to the extent he is essentially their agent. The point is, if it were a case that were actually provable, they wouldn't be releasing that aspect of the investigation for public consumption. That could only hurt the investigation and never help it.


So why was it leaked? (I agree with you, nobody would’ve heard of it til Trump is charged legally if this was fool proof)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Drip, drip, drip. More and more supposes are surfacing. If these leaks are any indication, Mueller has much, much, more. I have a feeling The Donald is going to resign.

Trump reportedly hid records of his conversations with Putin from his own administration

LINK

Quote:
President Donald Trump has taken pains to hide details of his communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin from his own administration — even going so far as to take notes from his interpreter and order the linguist to stay silent, The Washington Post reported on Saturday.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
So why was it leaked? (I agree with you, nobody would’ve heard of it til Trump is charged legally if this was fool proof)


Hard to tell. Could be along the lines of what CL said and someone in the FBI who was fed up trying to get a dig in on Trump. I tend to think that it is people with knowledge of how investigation is coming together attempting to emphasize just how deep the collusion was despite the fact that a slam-dunk doesn't exist. The idea being that planting the seed of the worst possible scenario exists, so that the idea of collusion appears to be a given, regardless of the strength of the evidence. Just a theory.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:


So why was it leaked? (I agree with you, nobody would’ve heard of it til Trump is charged legally if this was fool proof)


Often in organised crime cases where the government has evidence of ongoing wrongdoing that's contnuing during the course of the investigation, they'll hold facts close to the vest and then strategically leak just before indicting to get the "final nail" that shows clear culpability since the suspect is engaging in criminal wrongdoing that's "current". It bolsters a circumstantial case. The National Security apparatus has had authority to withold information from the President if it's directly related to an ongoing investigation. They've had this authority since Watergate, and was furthur bolstered during Iran Contra where the Feds strategically withheld information from the CIA when they were investigating both the CIA and Executive branch for culpability in Iran Contra. If there was credible information garnered during their investigation of Trump Russian ties, you can be certain that Trumps "private" Putin conversations weren't as private as he might have believed they were.

Not saying any of this is the case with the current investigation, but if you turn the clock back 2 years when this investigation was purported to have occurred, you'll recall Trump consistently asking if their was a direct investigation where he was the subject. Investigators are under no obligation to truthfully share with the President that he's the subject of an active investigation if he is indeed the subject of an active investigation. Whatever comes of the recent revelations, one things for sure - there was a reason for the leak. Mueller runs a very tight ship. This didn't make it into the public sphere unless he had a reason for it. The leak could have an entirely different target other than Trump.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
governator wrote:


So why was it leaked? (I agree with you, nobody would’ve heard of it til Trump is charged legally if this was fool proof)


Often in organised crime cases where the government has evidence of ongoing wrongdoing that's contnuing during the course of the investigation, they'll hold facts close to the vest and then strategically leak just before indicting to get the "final nail" that shows clear culpability since the suspect is engaging in criminal wrongdoing that's "current". It bolsters a circumstantial case. The National Security apparatus has had authority to withold information from the President if it's directly related to an ongoing investigation. They've had this authority since Watergate, and was furthur bolstered during Iran Contra where the Feds strategically withheld information from the CIA when they were investigating both the CIA and Executive branch for culpability in Iran Contra. If there was credible information garnered during their investigation of Trump Russian ties, you can be certain that Trumps "private" Putin conversations weren't as private as he might have believed they were.

Not saying any of this is the case with the current investigation, but if you turn the clock back 2 years when this investigation was purported to have occurred, you'll recall Trump consistently asking if their was a direct investigation where he was the subject. Investigators are under no obligation to truthfully share with the President that he's the subject of an active investigation if he is indeed the subject of an active investigation. Whatever comes of the recent revelations, one things for sure - there was a reason for the leak. Mueller runs a very tight ship. This didn't make it into the public sphere unless he had a reason for it. The leak could have an entirely different target other than Trump.


Assuming he has anything to do with the leak, which I don't think is a given.

But yes, there was a reason. And the motivations and timing certainly spark curiousity.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
James Comes Twitter: "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made" - FDR

Though you could argue that he's made enemies all across the board, so there's that.


Comey thinks he should invoke FDR now? lol


Arrogant for sure . . . which isn't surprising.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:


Assuming he has anything to do with the leak, which I don't think is a given.

But yes, there was a reason. And the motivations and timing certainly spark curiousity.


By all accounts, Mueller was ready to complete his investigation and present in September. Not wanting to be seen as affecting the midterms seemed a credible reason to hold out at the time, but it's most curious that things are still dragging on at this point. Whatever is going on behind the scenes is going to be very interesting. More interesting will be just what tidbits they allow we, the public, to know and what get's kept under wraps. I just want this all over at this point, whatever the outcome.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
I just want this all over at this point, whatever the outcome.


Yep. Especially prior to the start of the elongated election season.

It's all gamesmanship at this point, and that's not necessarily a good thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Deep Throat candidates:

Quote:
Peter Paul Strzok II (/strʌk/, like struck; born March 7, 1970)[1] is a former United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agent.[2][3][4] Strzok was the Chief of the Counterespionage Section and led the FBI's investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a personal email server.[5][4][6]

Strzok rose to become the Deputy Assistant Director of the Counterintelligence Division, the second-highest position in that division. He also led the FBI's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[4][7][8][9]

In June and July 2017, Strzok worked on Robert Mueller's Special Counsel investigation into any links or coordination between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the Russian government.[10][7][9] Mueller removed Strzok from the Russia investigation when Mueller became aware of criticisms of Trump contained in personal text messages exchanged between Strzok and a colleague.[11][12] Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein defended Mueller's response to the text messages.

The revelation of the text messages led Republican congressmen and right wing media to start pushing conspiracy theories to the effect that Strzok was involved in a secret plot an undermine the Trump presidency.[13][14][15][16]

After doing a comprehensive review in February 2018 of Strzok's messages, Del Quentin Wilber of The Wall Street Journal concluded that "texts critical of Mr. Trump represent a fraction of the roughly 7,000 messages, which stretch across 384 pages and show no evidence of a conspiracy against Mr. Trump".[17]

On August 10, 2018, David Bowdich, the FBI deputy director, fired Strzok


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McCabe


Quote:
Andrew George McCabe (born March 18, 1968)[5] is a retired American attorney who served as the Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation from February 2016 to January 2018.

From May 9, 2017 to August 2, 2017, McCabe served as the Acting Director of the FBI following James Comey's dismissal by President Donald Trump. U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions stated that McCabe was one of several candidates under consideration for Director. President Trump ultimately chose Christopher A. Wray, the former Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department's Criminal Division, to succeed Comey.[6] Once Wray was sworn in, McCabe returned to the position of Deputy Director.[7]

On January 29, 2018, McCabe announced that he was stepping down from his position as Deputy Director of the FBI and went on paid leave.[8][9][10]

On March 16, 2018, Sessions fired McCabe 26 hours before his scheduled retirement
.[11][12] Sessions announced that he based his decision on reports from the DOJ Inspector General and the FBI's disciplinary office saying that McCabe had made unauthorized releases of information to the media and had "lacked candor" in talking about it. McCabe denied that he had ever been dishonest and charged that his firing was politically motivated.[13][14][15]

On April 19, 2018, media reported the US Department of Justice Inspector General had earlier sent a criminal referral to federal prosecutors for possible criminal charges against McCabe associated with allegations of lying to internal investigators

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McCabe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:


Assuming he has anything to do with the leak, which I don't think is a given.

But yes, there was a reason. And the motivations and timing certainly spark curiousity.


By all accounts, Mueller was ready to complete his investigation and present in September. Not wanting to be seen as affecting the midterms seemed a credible reason to hold out at the time, but it's most curious that things are still dragging on at this point. Whatever is going on behind the scenes is going to be very interesting. More interesting will be just what tidbits they allow we, the public, to know and what get's kept under wraps. I just want this all over at this point, whatever the outcome.


that was Rudy G's timeline...Whitewater took 7 years...Iran/Contra took 5
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject:

Also, why would a counter intelligence investigation into whether Trump is a Russian asset be over? He's still president, and still making policy that benefits Russia. The Syrian pullout hands that country over to Putin. The Treasury Secretary just tried to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum oligarch with ties to Putin. It was recently revealed that the congressional funds allotted to defend the country's future from cyber attacks HAS NOT BEEN SPENT AT ALL. He fired Jeff Sessions because Sessions recused himself over Russian investigation. All of this happened within the last few months. The shutdown is threatening national security - TSA, FBI etc.

Given the above, why would the original investigation be complete? Wouldn't these new instances continue be added as more proof until the case is ready to be concluded? I don't know if the conclusion is a report, an impeachment or an indictment, or some combo. But I don't think this is something they looked into and then dropped. That makes no sense.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Also, why would a counter intelligence investigation into whether Trump is a Russian asset be over? He's still president, and still making policy that benefits Russia. The Syrian pullout hands that country over to Putin. The Treasury Secretary just tried to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum oligarch with ties to Putin. It was recently revealed that the congressional funds allotted to defend the country's future from cyber attacks HAS NOT BEEN SPENT AT ALL. He fired Jeff Sessions because Sessions recused himself over Russian investigation. All of this happened within the last few months. The shutdown is threatening national security - TSA, FBI etc.

Given the above, why would the original investigation be complete? Wouldn't these new instances continue be added as more proof until the case is ready to be concluded? I don't know if the conclusion is a report, an impeachment or an indictment, or some combo. But I don't think this is something they looked into and then dropped. That makes no sense.


It would depend on what that investigation revealed or didn't reveal in regards to what could be proven.

But it certainly doesn't make sense to leak an accusation of such critical importance prior actually leveling the charge. If you can prove it, get on with it before further damage is done. If you can't yet, you've only lessened your hand in the attempt to do so.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Also, why would a counter intelligence investigation into whether Trump is a Russian asset be over? He's still president, and still making policy that benefits Russia. The Syrian pullout hands that country over to Putin. The Treasury Secretary just tried to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum oligarch with ties to Putin. It was recently revealed that the congressional funds allotted to defend the country's future from cyber attacks HAS NOT BEEN SPENT AT ALL. He fired Jeff Sessions because Sessions recused himself over Russian investigation. All of this happened within the last few months. The shutdown is threatening national security - TSA, FBI etc.

Given the above, why would the original investigation be complete? Wouldn't these new instances continue be added as more proof until the case is ready to be concluded? I don't know if the conclusion is a report, an impeachment or an indictment, or some combo. But I don't think this is something they looked into and then dropped. That makes no sense.


It would depend on what that investigation revealed or didn't reveal in regards to what could be proven.

But it certainly doesn't make sense to leak an accusation of such critical importance prior actually leveling the charge. If you can prove it, get on with it before further damage is done. If you can't yet, you've only lessened your hand in the attempt to do so.


There's plenty of circumstantial proof in the public domain, much of it out of Trump's own mouth and own actions. It's hard to believe Muller has found no other evidence beyond what the public is privy to.

And again, there is no proof, circumstantial of otherwise, that Mueller's office has leaked this or anything. They have been air tight.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Also, why would a counter intelligence investigation into whether Trump is a Russian asset be over? He's still president, and still making policy that benefits Russia. The Syrian pullout hands that country over to Putin. The Treasury Secretary just tried to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum oligarch with ties to Putin. It was recently revealed that the congressional funds allotted to defend the country's future from cyber attacks HAS NOT BEEN SPENT AT ALL. He fired Jeff Sessions because Sessions recused himself over Russian investigation. All of this happened within the last few months. The shutdown is threatening national security - TSA, FBI etc.

Given the above, why would the original investigation be complete? Wouldn't these new instances continue be added as more proof until the case is ready to be concluded? I don't know if the conclusion is a report, an impeachment or an indictment, or some combo. But I don't think this is something they looked into and then dropped. That makes no sense.


It would depend on what that investigation revealed or didn't reveal in regards to what could be proven.

But it certainly doesn't make sense to leak an accusation of such critical importance prior actually leveling the charge. If you can prove it, get on with it before further damage is done. If you can't yet, you've only lessened your hand in the attempt to do so.


There's plenty of circumstantial proof in the public domain, much of it out of Trump's own mouth and own actions. It's hard to believe Muller has found no other evidence beyond what the public is privy to.


You are missing the point. It's not a question of whether one can prove that Trump was knowingly complicit in illegal dealings with Russia. The question is the degree of what the crimes are that can be proven. Just because Trump may be clearly guilty of something doesn't mean the worst implications of that can be proven.

Quote:
And again, there is no proof, circumstantial of otherwise, that Mueller's office has leaked this or anything. They have been air tight.


I haven't seen anyone here state otherwise. In fact, I think everyone has stated that they don't think Mueller leaked it. What matters is that it was leaked.
_________________
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He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject:

When the other shoe drops it's going to be cataclysmic. IMO Donald is toast.
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