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ribeye
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Conker wrote: | I agree. But it applys the same with the opposition. As the media and those fanatics, like here, portray Democrats as these self-righteous Care Bears that fight for kangaroo rights and for the Common Man. In reality, they don't care about you and only wants your votes by slewing this unity ideology with nothing to back it up with.
These well-estalished corporate Democrats, like Pelosi, Cory Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and many more, and even Beto, are the problem of your beloved political party and causing people to become apathetic and political nihilistic and defeatist. |
There is most certainly one thing that Democrats are not: Republicans. That, by any measure, is reason enough to align with the Democratic Party.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| inmate #58435 wrote: |
It's mind-boggling how hardcore Democrat supporters caricature the people who votes Republicans as stupid and being manipulated |
I mean a spade is a spade, chief.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:53 am Post subject: |
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There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
We have the system we have. Once elected, politicians have to keep raising money every single day. At least Democrats want to reverse Citizen's United and try to contain the worst of Wall Street. Giving up all corporate donations cold-turkey before you've changed campaign finance laws would tilt the playing field even more dramatically into Republican favor. Republicans already enjoy huge financial advantage in terms of fund raising, i.e., the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, billionaires like Sheldon Adelson, etc.
The only way to change campaign finance laws is to elect enough Democrats so they can pass campaign finance legislation. Because Republicans will NEVER pass campaign finance legislation.
And currently the only way to elect more Democrats is to do so through the current campaign finance system. That means some Democrats in particular states will take more corporate money than some are comfortable with. And even "corporate Democrats" who take that money, still vote for Wall Street reform, higher corporate taxes, lower taxes on the middle class, etc. far more than any average Republican would.
But to throw up your hands and label all Democrats "corporate Democrats" and sit home and pout will guarantee that nothing changes because that attitude helps Republicans who already have multiple structural advantages (gerrymandering, voter ID laws, billionaire donors, electoral college, uneven Senate representation due to population differences in red states vs blue states, etc.)
If you are whining about Corporate Democrats while doing absolutely nothing to help change things, you are part of the problem. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Conker wrote: | | These well-estalished corporate Democrats, like Pelosi, Cory Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and many more, and even Beto, are the problem of your beloved political party and causing people to become apathetic and political nihilistic and defeatist. |
Did you see the midterm results?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Conker wrote: | I agree. But it applys the same with the opposition. As the media and those fanatics, like here, portray Democrats as these self-righteous Care Bears that fight for kangaroo rights and for the Common Man. In reality, they don't care about you and only wants your votes by slewing this unity ideology with nothing to back it up with.
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Each party's record speaks for itself: https://np.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6pc5qu/democrats_propose_rules_to_break_up_broadband/dkon8t4/
Quit your b.s.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Conker wrote: |
It's mind-boggling how hardcore Democrat supporters caricature the people who votes Republicans as stupid and being manipulated yet themselves are getting played by their own Leaders with empty nonsensical promises, false image+advertising and speeches. |
The Democratic Party certainly has its own issues and warts, but the surest proof that someone is being manipulated is when they parrot the "both sides are equally bad" nonsense.
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Conker, I'm repeating the following from Jan 2.
| LarryCoon wrote: | Conker, you should read this post carefully because it concerns you.
The back & forth finger-pointing is useless, especially the assertions that come with zero information, and zero backup. This is why we've established a standard in this thread, that if you're going to be making claims, you have to be able to back them up.
One side of this argument consistently brings cites and other backup to substantiate its claims. The other....consistently doesn't. The next post from you making claims better come with backup. You don't get to throw out pure propaganda as truth.
Let's start with this one. Please back it up. Now.
| Conker wrote: |
At least they say they going to cut, limit, regulate this and that and they (bleep) do it. |
(A lack of response will be interpreted as a tacit admission that you have no interest in participating in a dialog, and dealt with accordingly.) |
This is your last chance to come here with substance rather than hit & run potshots with no substance, no facts, and no support. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Conker wrote: | I agree. But it applys the same with the opposition. As the media and those fanatics, like here, portray Democrats as these self-righteous Care Bears that fight for kangaroo rights and for the Common Man. In reality, they don't care about you and only wants your votes by slewing this unity ideology with nothing to back it up with.
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Care to explain the "nothing to back it up with" ?
What is the nothing?
Are you saying Democrats are identical to Republicans when it comes to
Race/Racism
Healthcare
Workers rights
Environmental Concerns.. Air and Water quality
Social Justice
Immigration.. I am certain you are a white. Do you have any idea what life is like in some countries and immigrants come here to escape the hell in their country but you would rather hurl insults upon their brown skin and become callous to their suffering.. Allowing your president to call them rapists and murderers .. Republicans cheered that (bleep) HE said it all before he was elected.. OWN THAT
We know they are not brave enough to protect America from Donald Trump.. do you need any thing else to point at to show how (bleep) they are as human beings? |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Conker wrote: | | These well-estalished corporate Democrats, like Pelosi, Cory Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and many more, and even Beto, are the problem of your beloved political party and causing people to become apathetic and political nihilistic and defeatist. |
Did you see the midterm results? |
I was gonna say....
How is Beto "corporate"? Popular doesn't equate to corporate does it? |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
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I actually think this is kind of the point. The ACA is a great example of legislation that had great intentions that ended up doomed because they let corporations (insurance companies) hugely influence the bill.
Republicans are blatantly dishonest in their criticisms of the ACA, ironic because the law is based on the law in Mass., which was thought up by the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank). Obama actually supported single payer when he ran for President. The flaws in the ACA are massive, so much so that as Americans saw their healthcare costs continuing to rise dramatically the Republicans used that as a wedge for the American public. It was sold as a back door to us getting Medicare for all, but this simply wasn’t true. It was an extension of the market based system that treats healthcare as a commodity and profit center for Wall Street.
I actually think that the ACA was the last straw for the common man/woman that historically voted Democrat and is partly responsible for the huge Republican wave that swept the country after Obama’s second year and for Trumps ascendancy. If Democratic economic policy continues to be heavily influenced by corporate donors, just like it is for Republicans, then real economic change for the lower and middle class is near impossible and voters sense that. So they start voting religion, guns, security, prayer, immigration, because those issues are also important to them, and that plays right in to Republican hands.
Until we get corporate money out of politics, real change in healthcare for the better is going to be near impossible. You are right that the only way this happens is if we elect more Democrats that make getting corporate money out of politics a core issue. (I am very skeptical that once Dems have control of all branches they will make this a priority...but at least there is a chance.)
By the way, this is actually an issue that both Republican voters and Democrat voters agree on. 71% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats believe there should be limits on corporate campaign spending. This is an issue that could get bipartisan support from the public right now if it were separated from all the other issues.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/08/most-americans-want-to-limit-campaign-spending-say-big-donors-have-greater-political-influence/ |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: |
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AOC got a seat on the House Financial Services Committee  |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
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I actually think this is kind of the point. The ACA is a great example of legislation that had great intentions that ended up doomed because they let corporations (insurance companies) hugely influence the bill.
Republicans are blatantly dishonest in their criticisms of the ACA, ironic because the law is based on the law in Mass., which was thought up by the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank). Obama actually supported single payer when he ran for President. The flaws in the ACA are massive, so much so that as Americans saw their healthcare costs continuing to rise dramatically the Republicans used that as a wedge for the American public. It was sold as a back door to us getting Medicare for all, but this simply wasn’t true. It was an extension of the market based system that treats healthcare as a commodity and profit center for Wall Street.
I actually think that the ACA was the last straw for the common man/woman that historically voted Democrat and is partly responsible for the huge Republican wave that swept the country after Obama’s second year and for Trumps ascendancy. If Democratic economic policy continues to be heavily influenced by corporate donors, just like it is for Republicans, then real economic change for the lower and middle class is near impossible and voters sense that. So they start voting religion, guns, security, prayer, immigration, because those issues are also important to them, and that plays right in to Republican hands.
Until we get corporate money out of politics, real change in healthcare for the better is going to be near impossible. You are right that the only way this happens is if we elect more Democrats that make getting corporate money out of politics a core issue. (I am very skeptical that once Dems have control of all branches they will make this a priority...but at least there is a chance.)
By the way, this is actually an issue that both Republican voters and Democrat voters agree on. 71% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats believe there should be limits on corporate campaign spending. This is an issue that could get bipartisan support from the public right now if it were separated from all the other issues.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/08/most-americans-want-to-limit-campaign-spending-say-big-donors-have-greater-political-influence/ |
I'm sorry people are so naive. No one had been able to get even a crumb of health care legislation passed. NOT. EVER. The fact that they got anything through given the GOP's effort to sabotage it at every stage is was a huge achievement. Do we need more? Yes. But to blame both sides is ridiculous and akin to hitting yourself in the head with a hammer then blaming the hammer. This is how divided government works. That's not the Democrats fault in any way, shape or form. The ACA was the FIRST STEP, not the end game.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:43 am Post subject: |
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There is a problem with using the rank and file as your basis. While the Republican rank and file may say they don't want corporate contributions, what drives them, where they have passion, is on the social issues. As such, this deal with the devil they have with their elected officials, that the only way many creeps get elected in through huge donations, is tolerated, if once in office, these officials push changes in abortion laws, gun laws, marriage law and gay laws, and immigration laws.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | AOC got a seat on the House Financial Services Committee |
 
Wall Street, Brace Yourself: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Joining House Financial Services Committee
| Quote: |
Per Bloomberg, those names include Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.), Katie Porter (Calif.) and Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii).
“AOC” confirmed the news of her appointment on Twitter.
“Personally, I’m looking forward to digging into the student loan crisis, examining for-profit prisons/ICE detention, and exploring the development of public & postal banking. To start,” she tweeted.
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| Quote: |
As reported by Politico, then confirmed by the Boston congresswoman herself via Twitter, the progressive Ayanna Pressley (Mass.) will also be joining the committee.
“To anyone that’s ever come home to an eviction notice, felt overwhelmed by student debt or worked the 2nd&3rd shift—when I learned that I was appointed to the Financial Services Committee @FSCDems tonight I thought of you,” Pressley tweeted.
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
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I actually think this is kind of the point. The ACA is a great example of legislation that had great intentions that ended up doomed because they let corporations (insurance companies) hugely influence the bill.
Republicans are blatantly dishonest in their criticisms of the ACA, ironic because the law is based on the law in Mass., which was thought up by the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank). Obama actually supported single payer when he ran for President. The flaws in the ACA are massive, so much so that as Americans saw their healthcare costs continuing to rise dramatically the Republicans used that as a wedge for the American public. It was sold as a back door to us getting Medicare for all, but this simply wasn’t true. It was an extension of the market based system that treats healthcare as a commodity and profit center for Wall Street.
I actually think that the ACA was the last straw for the common man/woman that historically voted Democrat and is partly responsible for the huge Republican wave that swept the country after Obama’s second year and for Trumps ascendancy. If Democratic economic policy continues to be heavily influenced by corporate donors, just like it is for Republicans, then real economic change for the lower and middle class is near impossible and voters sense that. So they start voting religion, guns, security, prayer, immigration, because those issues are also important to them, and that plays right in to Republican hands.
Until we get corporate money out of politics, real change in healthcare for the better is going to be near impossible. You are right that the only way this happens is if we elect more Democrats that make getting corporate money out of politics a core issue. (I am very skeptical that once Dems have control of all branches they will make this a priority...but at least there is a chance.)
By the way, this is actually an issue that both Republican voters and Democrat voters agree on. 71% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats believe there should be limits on corporate campaign spending. This is an issue that could get bipartisan support from the public right now if it were separated from all the other issues.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/08/most-americans-want-to-limit-campaign-spending-say-big-donors-have-greater-political-influence/ |
I'm sorry people are so naive. No one had been able to get even a crumb of health care legislation passed. NOT. EVER. The fact that they got anything through given the GOP's effort to sabotage it at every stage is was a huge achievement. Do we need more? Yes. But to blame both sides is ridiculous and akin to hitting yourself in the head with hammer then blaming the hammer. This is how divided government works. That's not the Democrats fault in any way, shape or form. |
To add, the ACA was SO unpopular to "common folk" that a Republican majority in Congress and the WH, were unable to do away with it on their own because of the backlash they received from their constituents. Republicans want to do away with Obamacare and the take away the pre-existing conditions law, which will literally kill people who can't afford to pay health insurance. Seems pretty popular now right? |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Conker wrote: | | These well-estalished corporate Democrats, like Pelosi, Cory Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and many more, and even Beto, are the problem of your beloved political party and causing people to become apathetic and political nihilistic and defeatist. |
Did you see the midterm results? |
I was gonna say....
How is Beto "corporate"? Popular doesn't equate to corporate does it? |
The far left has been pushing this meme because they see Beto as competition for Bernie. I think some of his individual donors work for oil and gas companies (probably unavoidable being Texas and all). But that's not the same as taking money from the oil and gas companies' themselves. The two are being conflated to tar him with the corporate Democrat label. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Conker wrote: | | These well-estalished corporate Democrats, like Pelosi, Cory Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and many more, and even Beto, are the problem of your beloved political party and causing people to become apathetic and political nihilistic and defeatist. |
Did you see the midterm results? |
I was gonna say....
How is Beto "corporate"? Popular doesn't equate to corporate does it? |
The far left has been pushing this meme because they see Beto as competition for Bernie. I think some of his individual donors work for oil and gas companies (probably unavoidable being Texas and all). But that's not the same as taking money from the oil and gas companies' themselves. The two are being conflated to tar him with the corporate Democrat label. |
10 points for the "oil" and "tar" word play. Well done. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Nancy Pelosi uninvited Trump from giving a State of the Union address to Congress. She did it as only Nancy Pelosi could. 
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
......[/i] |
hold on CL. but we could also say if they were still dems but not corporate dems. we would have universal healthcare already. you never know. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Scott Brown won in Massachusetts and effectively killed a more expansive Health Care bill because the Senate became 50/50. Nancy Pelosi was able to push the ACA through via a lot of negotiation and using the reconciliation maneuver.
If it was so easy, why hadn't it already been done?
Look how hard the Republicans wanted to REVERSE the ACA, and they couldn't do it either -- even with a Republican president, House and Senate.
THAT'S HOW HARD IT IS. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | There would be no ACA without "corporate Democrat" Nancy Pelosi and "corporate Democrat" Barack Obama.
......[/i] |
hold on CL. but we could also say if they were still dems but not corporate dems. we would have universal healthcare already. you never know. |
And when you take that sentence out of context, you stripped it of it's meaning. The point wasn't that Pelosi or Obama were or weren't "corporate" Democrats. The point was that Democrats actually accomplished something very difficult that greatly benefited regular Americans, regardless of ridiculous labels people slap on them. AND THE REPUBLICANS DIDN'T AND NEVER WILL DO ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | No one had been able to get even a crumb of health care legislation passed. NOT. EVER. The fact that they got anything through given the GOP's effort to sabotage it at every stage is was a huge achievement. Do we need more? Yes. But to blame both sides is ridiculous and akin to hitting yourself in the head with a hammer then blaming the hammer. This is how divided government works. That's not the Democrats fault in any way, shape or form. The ACA was the FIRST STEP, not the end game. |
Yes. The Republicans have fought any health care reforms which involve the government, except Medicare (which is a true testament to LBJ) since the concept was first whispered in the early 20th century. They knew, and know, that any crack in their united front meant more would come to like the plan, and that, eventually, the general population would be in favor of it, just as with Social Security and Medicare.
| splashmtn wrote: | | hold on CL. but we could also say if they were still dems but not corporate dems. we would have universal healthcare already. you never know. |
No way. The ACA proponents had to get the insurance plans on their side and the moderate Democrats. The insurance plans would never go for the kind of universal healthcare I suspect you speak, such as Medicare for all.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Senate just BLOCKED a Chuck Schumer measure that would prevent the Trump admin from lifting sanctions on three firms linked to Russian oligarch and Putin ally Oleg Deripaska.
The vote in the GOP-led Senate was 57-42, short of the 60 needed to move it to a final vote. |
So Republicans are still working. Just for Russia. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | Senate just BLOCKED a Chuck Schumer measure that would prevent the Trump admin from lifting sanctions on three firms linked to Russian oligarch and Putin ally Oleg Deripaska.
The vote in the GOP-led Senate was 57-42, short of the 60 needed to move it to a final vote. |
So Republicans are still working. Just for Russia. |
BUT BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME!!!! |
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32
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Reports are airport safety is a concern because of the shutdown.
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