Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Just to be clear, Pelosi said if he ended the government shutdown, they could work on the date for the SOTU. It was up to him. But he's the baby man drama queen traitor from hell, so no SOTU propaganda from well of Congress for you.
Not a fan of this move by Pelosi. Just comes across as pointless and petty.
She is checking the Executive branch, that's her job. More power to her.
Letting him give a SOTU like everything is normal would be an abdication of her duty. 800,000 government employees are suffering at his hands. You don't reward him by giving him a microphone to lie from the well of Congress while he keeps the government shut down. Not petty or pointless at all, imo.
How about this: Assuming Trump finds some other venue to give his speech, wouldn't the House Chambers then be vacant? Wouldn't it be possible to give the Democrats answer from the House Chambers, with House and Senate Democrats (and any Republicans should they chose to join), along with all the many invited guests?
Wouldn't that be fun? _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Last edited by ribeye on Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:27 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
The only 2 things that will reopen the government is Mitch McConnell evolving from an invertebrate into a vertebrate. Or Trump's base saying, "my racism just isn't worth it".
At this point, I don't know what's more unlikely. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
The only 2 things that will reopen the government is Mitch McConnell evolving from an invertebrate into a vertebrate. Or Trump's base saying, "my racism just isn't worth it".
At this point, I don't know what's more unlikely.
It is a game of chicken between the parties, one of which, doesn't really give a sheet about Federal workers and those on aid, such as food stamps, and the other which does. It is a sheety position for Dems to be in. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67621 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
The only 2 things that will reopen the government is Mitch McConnell evolving from an invertebrate into a vertebrate. Or Trump's base saying, "my racism just isn't worth it".
At this point, I don't know what's more unlikely.
IMO both are unlikely but that's narrowing the options. Giving Trump the 5.7 billion dollars he wants for HIS wall would immediately reopen the government. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject:
nickuku wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Agreed, which is why stooping to his level with this sort of "if you don't do what I say, I'll stop you from saying anything" is pointless and counter-productive. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Agreed, which is why stooping to his level with this sort of "if you don't do what I say, I'll stop you from saying anything" is pointless and counter-productive.
I think at the very least it's a nice reminder to Trump that he can't exert his will anytime he likes on the other branches of government. You could argue that angering him by doing this is actually going to hurt the chances of re-opening the government sooner, but I like the move & Pelosi standing up to Trump.
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
The only 2 things that will reopen the government is Mitch McConnell evolving from an invertebrate into a vertebrate. Or Trump's base saying, "my racism just isn't worth it".
At this point, I don't know what's more unlikely.
It is a game of chicken between the parties, one of which, doesn't really give a sheet about Federal workers and those on aid, such as food stamps, and the other which does. It is a sheety position for Dems to be in.
The Republicans might not care right now, but I think as the political fallout continues to grow they will be the ones to buckle. It seems that up to this point, Trump and to a lesser extent the Republican Party are garnering most of the blame for this government lockdown. When over 800,000 government employees miss multiple paychecks and people go hunger because of lack of funding for food stamps, you can bet that the GOP/Trump will feel the political ramifications of that.
Not going to vote blue for the first time in my life in the next election (we'll see who comes up as independents as I'm sure as hell not voting Trump) but if I had to guess, it's going to be O'Rourke/Harris on the Dems side of things.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67621 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:27 pm Post subject:
As I ponder the speakers position and listen to arguments from both side I'm leaning more toward not allowing Trump to speak in the chamber. The speaker's not saying he can't give a SOTU speech, she's saying she won't allow it in the chamber as long as the government is shutdown. Why give him a venue to lie to the public? I don't think he'll give the true SOTU. He'll lie and most likely won't mention immigration, the shutdown's actual impact, the Russian investigation and other things that affect the SOTU. I'm leaning more toward yielding to Trump would be a mistake. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:30 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
The only 2 things that will reopen the government is Mitch McConnell evolving from an invertebrate into a vertebrate. Or Trump's base saying, "my racism just isn't worth it".
At this point, I don't know what's more unlikely.
IMO both are unlikely but that's narrowing the options. Giving Trump the 5.7 billion dollars he wants for HIS wall would immediately reopen the government.
We just had an historic Blue Wave. Dems in Congress would be spitting in the face of the voters if they budged.
But putting that aside. How can you negotiate with a man who pulls out of deals? There's no trust. He pulled out of the last DACA deal. He pulled out from signing what Republicans wanted before Ann Coulter got upset. He said he wouldn't have signed the compromise Pence offered a couple weeks ago (on behalf of the White House). _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 6347 Location: The Titanic that is the USA
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
nickuku wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Agreed, which is why stooping to his level with this sort of "if you don't do what I say, I'll stop you from saying anything" is pointless and counter-productive.
I disagree. I don't think it's pointless to deliver the message that we're not going to be your stooges while you rail against us with lies about the shutdown in front of the world.
If you give into this extortion on any level, it'll keep happening. This is mafia bully we are dealing with and if you let him think he can have a free drink, he'll take the entire bar. In that respect, it's totally productive.
In fact, that point needs to made loud and clear because next time, they're coming for your medicare and social security, not a border wall. _________________ You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman
Last edited by Heartburn on Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Not going to vote blue for the first time in my life in the next election (we'll see who comes up as independents as I'm sure as hell not voting Trump) but if I had to guess, it's going to be O'Rourke/Harris on the Dems side of things.
It's so early into the primary. I don't see that tweet hurting her. 4 years ago Trump hadn't even given out opponent's personal cell phone numbers or accused opponent's fathers of killing JFK yet.
Honestly I have no idea who wins the primary. We don't even know if Biden is running. We don't know who progressives in the party will endorse. Who will demand attention in the news cycle when the field is full. Too many variables. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Not going to vote blue for the first time in my life in the next election (we'll see who comes up as independents as I'm sure as hell not voting Trump) but if I had to guess, it's going to be O'Rourke/Harris on the Dems side of things.
I don't get this line of logic. Is it just out of spite or pride? Voting for an independent in America is essentially throwing your vote away. Why not decide which candidates policies, from the two that actually stand a chance, align more closely with your own views and then decide based on that?
You might as well vote for Trump if you're voting for an independent presidential nominee...the effect is pretty much the same.
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
That's not the point. The point is for two years the Republicans have let him get away with everything with no consequences. The lying, the breaking of norms, the blurring of truth.
This says, "No more." The executive branch is not a monarchy and Trump will be made to feel the consequences of HIS DECISION to have a prolonged government shutdown. Being deprived of a traditional SOTU is a CONSEQUENCE of his horrendously callus and undemocratic behavior.
And thank God someone is finally standing up to him.
Not going to vote blue for the first time in my life in the next election (we'll see who comes up as independents as I'm sure as hell not voting Trump) but if I had to guess, it's going to be O'Rourke/Harris on the Dems side of things.
I don't get this line of logic. Is it just out of spite or pride? Voting for an independent in America is essentially throwing your vote away. Why not decide which candidates policies, from the two that actually stand a chance, align more closely with your own views and then decide based on that?
You might as well vote for Trump if you're voting for an independent presidential nominee...the effect is pretty much the same.
You may as well save a trip to the poll if you're gonna vote independent. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 pm Post subject:
Heartburn wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
nickuku wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Agreed, which is why stooping to his level with this sort of "if you don't do what I say, I'll stop you from saying anything" is pointless and counter-productive.
I disagree. I don't think it's pointless to deliver the message that we're not going to be your stooges while you rail against with lies about the shutdown in front of the world.
If you give into this extortion on any level, it'll keep happening. This is mafia bully we are dealing with and if you let him think he can have a free drink, he'll take the entire bar. In that respect, it's totally productive.
In fact, that point needs to made loud and clear because next time, they're coming for your medicare and social security, not a border wall.
There's no message of power sent when everyone knows the action amounts to no result. It's just pissing into the wind. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 6347 Location: The Titanic that is the USA
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
nickuku wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Agreed, which is why stooping to his level with this sort of "if you don't do what I say, I'll stop you from saying anything" is pointless and counter-productive.
I disagree. I don't think it's pointless to deliver the message that we're not going to be your stooges while you rail against with lies about the shutdown in front of the world.
If you give into this extortion on any level, it'll keep happening. This is mafia bully we are dealing with and if you let him think he can have a free drink, he'll take the entire bar. In that respect, it's totally productive.
In fact, that point needs to made loud and clear because next time, they're coming for your medicare and social security, not a border wall.
There's no message of power sent when everyone knows the action amounts to no result. It's just pissing into the wind.
I disagree that there's no result. The result is an effective check on his power, which has been absent for the last 2 years. He can't be allowed to piss on us and call it rain...on live tv...in front of the entire world...while people are suffering. The indulgence has to stop. _________________ You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman
This is not about a pissing contest. This is about preserving a Democracy, preserving checks and balances, preserving the institutions of government.
Trump is trying to destroy our Democracy from within and has been doing so for two years.
And we just all pretend like it's business as usual, like he's just any other Republican president we don't like.
No. It's bigger than that. He is a (bleep) Russian puppet trying to dismantle the FBI and use the DOJ to go after his enemies and stop the investigation into his own crimes.
SOMEONE HAS TO SAY NO. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. YOU WILL NOT GET AWAY WITH THIS.
This is the first step. Next come congressional investigations. And then maybe impeachment.
Not because he's an R and we're D's. But because he's a (bleep) traitor trying to destroy all that is good about our country.
Telling Trump he can't do his SOTU is not going to make him reopen the government.
I don't think anything that Pelosi does or does not is going to influence Trump to reopen the government. If you don't already listen to Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa's podcast @gaslitnation already(its free on on itunes or you can listen to it on your browser) I would highly suggest it. Pretty much everything she predicted back in 2016 has come true. On a recent podcast Sarah laid out all the reasons why this shutdown is more about breaking down the institutions that could and would hold trump accountable than anything else.
Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 6347 Location: The Titanic that is the USA
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject:
Dems have to stop getting played. Dems have been largely playing by the rules while Mitch McConnell (and later joined by Trump) has been kicking them in the teeth because he knows he doesn't have to play by the rules. I had a boss who did the same thing. He knew the other guy would be at a disadvantage because they were encumbered by rules, mores, customs, etc., and he never constrained by such things.
A bully only responds to equal or greater force. Pelosi is up for the fight and I encourage her to use her leverage where necessary. _________________ You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67621 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject:
Heartburn wrote:
Dems have to stop getting played. Dems have been largely playing by the rules while Mitch McConnell (and later joined by Trump) has been kicking them in the teeth because he knows he doesn't have to play by the rules. I had a boss who did the same thing. He knew the other guy would be at a disadvantage because they were encumbered by rules, mores, customs, etc., and he never constrained by such things.
A bully only responds to equal or greater force. Pelosi is up for the fight and I encourage her to use her leverage where necessary.
More and more I'm leaning that way. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
This is not about a pissing contest. This is about preserving a Democracy, preserving checks and balances, preserving the institutions of government.
Trump is trying to destroy our Democracy from within and has been doing so for two years.
And we just all pretend like it's business as usual, like he's just any other Republican president we don't like.
No. It's bigger than that. He is a (bleep) Russian puppet trying to dismantle the FBI and use the DOJ to go after his enemies and stop the investigation into his own crimes.
SOMEONE HAS TO SAY NO. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. YOU WILL NOT GET AWAY WITH THIS.
This is the first step. Next come congressional investigations. And then maybe impeachment.
Not because he's an R and we're D's. But because he's a (bleep) traitor trying to destroy all that is good about our country.
Totally agree This is basically the same as telling Putin he can't come to Congress and lecture to them and America.
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This is basically the same as telling Putin he can't come to Congress and lecture to them and America.
