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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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 Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | Some of you should get out of your bubble and actually establish a relationship with someone who is a Trump supporter. Not a political relationship, but a real friendship. (And they should do the same.)
The Democratic Party wins when it is the party of inclusion, not exclusion. When you label your opponents as “the enemy”, or even Hillary’s gaffe when she labeled a percentage of the other side as the basket of deplorables, you are unwittingly turning the Democratic Party into an exclusionary party and that’s how you lose an election. |
You assume that those who disagree with you haven’t done that and you are wrong about that as well. I know Trump supporters and some are people who are close to me. I have had friends who are Trump supporters and those friendships have dissolved because they expressed the same kind of dangerous divisiveness and hate that Trump espouses.
So please the “you just don’t know Trump people” talk. It’s needlessly self righteous and offensive. |
This wasn’t aimed at you, yet you are assuming that it is even though I said “some of you”. I do assume that “some” people here who don’t agree with me don’t personally know any Trump supporters. (Exactly what I said.)
Kind of like how there are “some” people who hate gay people, or black people, Etc., but don’t actually know or encounter them in there personal lives. |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | I think everybody too caught up in the word enemy. However u wanna label trump, we all want him out of office, some now cia impeachment like me, some in 2020, most if not all of us think he belongs in jail.
As far as trump supporters, man this is tricky, some of you are able to just cut them off , ive know these people (friends, coworkers) for years and they are decent people. They don’t condone trumps racist rhetorics, don’t speak out against it either, guess that’s the problem. I don’t know anymore |
This is my point governator. Those friends and coworkers of yours...why don’t you tell them how it is now...they are the enemy. Careless use of language that makes reconciliation and reconnection more difficult. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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My original use of the word "enemy" on the previous page was clearly in the context of "political enemy" not "personal enemy." I stated that Democratic candidates who aren't your first choice aren't your enemy, but on the other hand Trump and GOP (and their policies by extension) are. But people took it and ran with it.
I too have family members who are Trump supporters. I don't consider them my enemies and never expressed that. But whatever. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | I think everybody too caught up in the word enemy. However u wanna label trump, we all want him out of office, some now cia impeachment like me, some in 2020, most if not all of us think he belongs in jail.
As far as trump supporters, man this is tricky, some of you are able to just cut them off , ive know these people (friends, coworkers) for years and they are decent people. They don’t condone trumps racist rhetorics, don’t speak out against it either, guess that’s the problem. I don’t know anymore |
This is my point governator. Those friends and coworkers of yours...why don’t you tell them how it is now...they are the enemy. Careless use of language that makes reconciliation and reconnection more difficult. |
Yes, and carelessly misinterpreting posts and wildly extrapolating from them can also make conversations more difficult. Right? |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | Are people seriously getting hung up on a word? How about the term "political opposition" instead? |
Because that's not what we are talking about. What we are talking about runs far deeper and is more sinister than simply disagreeing on policy issues.
| Quote: | | I swear, if people put as much energy in fighting for populist progressive policies as they do quibbling over semantics, we'd have universal healthcare, free college, and a green new deal right now. |
And I swear that if people had put as much energy into voting in the last election rather than sitting it out because they didn't get their way, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | My political views can essentially be boiled down to “we’re all in this together”. It’s what informs most of my views on policy and the way I think government ought to run. So I can certainly understand the desire to love thy neighbor and promote unity. At some point though, you have to take a look around and realize you’re under attack. At that juncture you can keep getting pummeled with your palm outstretched or you can put up your dukes and fight back. |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | Some of you should get out of your bubble and actually establish a relationship with someone who is a Trump supporter. Not a political relationship, but a real friendship. (And they should do the same.)
The Democratic Party wins when it is the party of inclusion, not exclusion. When you label your opponents as “the enemy”, or even Hillary’s gaffe when she labeled a percentage of the other side as the basket of deplorables, you are unwittingly turning the Democratic Party into an exclusionary party and that’s how you lose an election. |
You think if we're nice to Trump voters we'll have a better chance of winning?
What is that assumption based on? Because all the evidence I've seen proves directly to the contrary.
Your narrative would make sense pre-2018 elections. But after seeing what caused the blue wave. I think you are wrong.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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A government/political party who kidnaps children, puts them in cages, intentionally doesn't document who the kid belongs to, keeps them in deplorable living conditions including being subjected to sexual abuse, inflicts these children with lifelong psychological trauma, is ordered to reunite children with parents and refuses to do so, then repeatedly lies about all of it -- IS NOT SIMPLY AN OPPOSING POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY. This is evil. And the people who implement such policies are the enemy of American democracy, freedom, equality and everything this country stands for.
So yes, those people are my political enemies. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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And how about when the GOP guts Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps and people end up having to make a choice between food and medicine which until ultimately causes thousands of deaths among your fellow citizens? Were those GOP policies simply another point of view or were they calculated to callously disregard the deaths of people who they don't care about? Where is the caring for that set of your fellow citizens?
Groups who been harmed in a real way by GOP policies don't have the luxury of turning the other cheek. They are in a life and death fight for their rights and their lives. |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | A government/political party who kidnaps children, puts them in cages, intentionally doesn't document who the kid belongs to, keeps them in deplorable living conditions including being subjected to sexual abuse, inflicts these children with lifelong psychological trauma, is ordered to reunite children with parents and refuses to do so, then repeatedly lies about all of it -- IS NOT SIMPLY AN OPPOSING POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY. This is evil. And the people who implement such policies are the enemy of American democracy, freedom, equality and everything this country stands for.
So yes, those people are my political enemies. |
How about this one of trump's 'the best people' forcing his religious views on these children looking for help....
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/us/politics/refugee-office-abortion-trump.html
They admitted that the problem was drugs coming in through entry points AND unaccompanied minor children...sounds like an invasion I guess......to a white supremacist |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | I think everybody too caught up in the word enemy. However u wanna label trump, we all want him out of office, some now cia impeachment like me, some in 2020, most if not all of us think he belongs in jail.
As far as trump supporters, man this is tricky, some of you are able to just cut them off , ive know these people (friends, coworkers) for years and they are decent people. They don’t condone trumps racist rhetorics, don’t speak out against it either, guess that’s the problem. I don’t know anymore |
This is my point governator. Those friends and coworkers of yours...why don’t you tell them how it is now...they are the enemy. Careless use of language that makes reconciliation and reconnection more difficult. |
Yes, and carelessly misinterpreting posts and wildly extrapolating from them can also make conversations more difficult. Right? |
This all started from a simple statement:
“Remember who the enemy is”? Trump and Trump supporters are not my enemy. They are my fellow Americans who I disagree vehemently with on many issues...but they are not the enemy.”
Then several people went bonkers, saying that they are in fact the enemy. I appreciate now it wasn’t your intent to call all Trump supporters the enemy and thank you for the clarification. |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 5234
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | I think everybody too caught up in the word enemy. However u wanna label trump, we all want him out of office, some now cia impeachment like me, some in 2020, most if not all of us think he belongs in jail.
As far as trump supporters, man this is tricky, some of you are able to just cut them off , ive know these people (friends, coworkers) for years and they are decent people. They don’t condone trumps racist rhetorics, don’t speak out against it either, guess that’s the problem. I don’t know anymore |
This is my point governator. Those friends and coworkers of yours...why don’t you tell them how it is now...they are the enemy. Careless use of language that makes reconciliation and reconnection more difficult. |
Yes, and carelessly misinterpreting posts and wildly extrapolating from them can also make conversations more difficult. Right? |
This all started from a simple statement:
“Remember who the enemy is”? Trump and Trump supporters are not my enemy. They are my fellow Americans who I disagree vehemently with on many issues...but they are not the enemy.”
Then several people went bonkers, saying that they are in fact the enemy. I appreciate now it wasn’t your intent to call all Trump supporters the enemy and thank you for the clarification. |
Who is the enemy?
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Trump is the enemy. You can quote me on that. He is a wannabe authoritarian attacking the democratic norms this country was founded on. If that doesn't make you the enemy, I don't know what does. It's not about political disagreement. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Trump is paying Mexico to keep Mexican and Latin American Asylum seekers in a Mexican holding facility from my understanding.
*creating a for profit prison again?
Anyhow
The Trump Administration is pausing its hiring of immigration judges
http://fortune.com/2019/03/07/immigration-judges-case-backlog/
| Quote: | | In January, a PBS NewsHour report revealed that roughly 800,000 immigration court cases were portioned across just 400 judges. At the time there was some concern that the government shutdown would force some cases to be rescheduled at the back of the queue, 2022. |
I bet he tries to create some special Kangaroo court outside the constitution and outside the US to deal with those asylum seekers in Mexico..
We need to start calling his ICE separations a Child Pedophilia ring
| Quote: | | Officials at the Department of Heath and Human Services (HHS) say they could be caring for some 30,000 children by the end of August [<2018] as the hard-nosed push on federal immigration laws continues. |
http://fortune.com/2018/06/18/border-kids-estimate-total-count/ |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: |
This all started from a simple statement:
“Remember who the enemy is”? Trump and Trump supporters are not my enemy. They are my fellow Americans who I disagree vehemently with on many issues...but they are not the enemy.”
Then several people went bonkers, saying that they are in fact the enemy. I appreciate now it wasn’t your intent to call all Trump supporters the enemy and thank you for the clarification. |
It was "Keyholing" at it's worst.
You make a statement where you say "6". Then someone comes along and surmises if you look through the keyhole at just the right angle you can get a glimpse of the clock through the reflection in the mirror and the mirror image appears as "9". Then they carry on as if it's a fact that you really meant "9", even though you clearly said "6". They believe they know better than you what you really meant to say, and are so convinced of it that it represents a fact in their mind.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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DaMuleRules
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Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: |
This all started from a simple statement:
“Remember who the enemy is”? Trump and Trump supporters are not my enemy. They are my fellow Americans who I disagree vehemently with on many issues...but they are not the enemy.”
Then several people went bonkers, saying that they are in fact the enemy. I appreciate now it wasn’t your intent to call all Trump supporters the enemy and thank you for the clarification. |
No one went "bonkers", they just pointed out that you are incorrect. Trump is very much an enemy who is very open about his goal of destroying the very democracy this nation is about.
So if he's not your enemy, he damn well should be . . . well, unless you are a middle-aged, white, male billionaire.
You know what is "bonkers" not realizing what a dangerous threat Trump and his supporters are to you and your family's future. He is actively dismantling every safe-guard this nation has that protect the safe and healthy future every American should expect.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Considering that Trump and the GOP deny climate change and we are almost past the point of no return for saving earth's climate, Trump/GOP could literally destroy the earth's climate for ALL OF TIME. But not an enemy? 'kay.
That's what killed me about all the people who sat home in 2016. Seriously, people were willing to sacrifice the earth's climate cuz one lady used her blackberry and she reminded them of their nagging mom and they didn't like voting for the "lesser of two evils." Sorry planet earth and all future generations, I just couldn't vote for that shrewish corporate shill. You just weren't worth it. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Conservatives create their own "Yelp" to identify "politically" safe business's to patronize:
| Quote: | In a move reminiscent of the “Green Book” guide that listed safe establishments for African-American motorists in the South, hyper-vigilant Trump supporters are trying to build their own guide to MAGA-friendly businesses.
63red Safe, is a list of Trump-friendly businesses—or at least ones that don’t discriminate against conservatives. 63red Safe works like a conservative Yelp. Instead of reviewing the lighting and ambience, though, the site’s users rate restaurants and other businesses on a series of four questions, including whether the restaurant’s owners make political social-media posts and whether they allow customers to carry weapons. |
Trelp
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Washington's state Senate passed a bill this week that would drop President Trump from the state's 2020 presidential ballot until he releases his tax returns.
The bill, which advanced Tuesday to the state's House of Representatives, according to CBS News, would require any candidate on the ballot for president in the state to release five years of tax returns before appearing in a general or primary election.
A similar bill recently advanced in New Jersey's state Senate and is currently sitting in the state's General Assembly. |
Tax Return to Ballot
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think the actual use of the word
Enemy
Is difficult for people to ingest within themselves
My personality at it's core is I dislike conflict and try
To not imagine the word "Enemy" crosshaired onto someone
I "want" to "get along"
I have a healthy dose of fear and respect for my anger
Simply using the word "Enemy" can trigger parts of my flight or flight
Enemy creates hate which is very hard to turn back from and is exactly why they're your enemy
They hate
You hate
Just creates more Hate
As hard as that is to acknowledge
When wanting to get along isn't possible because an outside force is basically evil at it's core and seeks to destroy the world as I appreciate it.
Can it be like they're The Living Dead?
I see them as so evil and disconnected to human life that they seem
Frightening
Zombie like
Mean humans who want to harm "Americans" who aren't like them
They support Trump before
Human Decency and the rule of law
They want fascist power |
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Surfitall
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Location: South Orange County
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 5234
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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>They support him because they believe he did and will continue to do great things for the economy
that confirms a couple of things, neither of which are good, that non-Trump supporters have long suspected
_________________
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers."
http://forums.lakersground.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13018 |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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What vapid (bleep). Did she think her thought experiment was clever? Anyone could see the punchline coming from the fifth word. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: |
>They support him because they believe he did and will continue to do great things for the economy
that confirms a couple of things, neither of which are good, that non-Trump supporters have long suspected |
Island of Dr. Moreau?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076210/
His supporters are a very strong argument for Eugenics |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: |
What vapid (bleep). Did she think her thought experiment was clever? Anyone could see the punchline coming from the fifth word. |
That covers it very well.
We all know what's in the minds of Trump supporters and why they blindly support him. We don't need an article that attempts to make a point by assuming the asinine premise "that both sides are the same" to prove it. The attempt to argue that people who voted for Hilary would be gloating over the same level of "accomplishment" that Trump has brought us is embarrassing for the author.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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