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vanexelent
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:35 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

"Are you for third-trimester abortions?" an attendee of the campaign event in Cleveland asked O'Rourke, before describing the medical alternatives to such a procedure and disputing the medical necessity of late-term abortions. "Are you going to protect the lives of third-trimester babies? ... Are you for or against third-trimester abortions?"

O'Rourke responded: "The question is about abortion and reproductive rights. And, my answer to you is, that should be a decision the woman makes. I trust her."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

governator
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:37 am Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

maybe regulated abortion? like beyond 24 weeks gestation (which fetus can survive outside wombs) only to protect life of mother or if severely abnormal fetus? Is 24 weeks enough time to find out you're pregnant and make an informed decision?

prob separate topic discussion specifically for abortion

But no, won't effect Beto. It's a crafted leftish answer

Surfitall
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Location: South Orange County

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:42 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

It’s a very politically un-savvy answer to an inflammatory question. I think it will be a problem, not necessarily what he answered, but how he answered it.

vanexelent
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:53 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

Some testing for genetic defects aren't done until 10-13 weeks into pregnancy. So that's 10-14 weeks really, as far as having to make an informed choice.

VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:56 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

that has always been my view of abortion...

VicXLakers
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:58 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

I crafted it for myself 50 years ago...

governator
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:06 am Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:

governator wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

Some testing for genetic defects aren't done until 10-13 weeks into pregnancy. So that's 10-14 weeks really, as far as having to make an informed choice.

yeah, 24 weeks seems to be adequate time for me but I'm a man, we need women's opinion

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:08 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

I don't think either are generally opposed to the comment about reproductive rights.
_________________
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:09 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

Exactly.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:10 am Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

I think, and polling suggests, that most Americans are against third trimester abortions in most instances.
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:12 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

I think, and polling suggests, that most Americans are against third trimester abortions in most instances.

He didn't directly endorse that . . . and define "most instances". You make it sound like women are just going out and having third trimester abortions as a routine.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

LarryCoon
Site Staff

Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:18 am Post subject:

Yup -- false dichotomy. Paint it as a black-or-white question, and if you don't say "white," everyone can claim you say "black."

ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:22 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

I think, and polling suggests, that most Americans are against third trimester abortions in most instances.

He didn't directly endorse that . . . and define "most instances". You make it sound like women are just going out and having third trimester abortions as a routine.

C'mon, you know how this will play. It is not what I think but what moderates think and how conservatives will blow this up to become infanticide to help influence them.
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ribeye
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:26 am Post subject:

Case in point: Beto O’Rourke on Third-Trimester Abortions: Should be Decision the Woman Makes https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/18/beto-orourke-on-third-trimester-abortions-should-be-decision-the-woman-makes/ _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"

DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:35 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Case in point:

Beto O’Rourke on Third-Trimester Abortions: Should be Decision the Woman Makes

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/18/beto-orourke-on-third-trimester-abortions-should-be-decision-the-woman-makes/

Brietbart . . . like I said, only with people who would have a problem with him no matter what he said.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:36 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Is this going to be a problem for Beto?

Quote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-seemingly-endorses-third-trimester-abortions-that-should-be-a-decision-the-woman-makes

Only with those who already have a problem with him.

How about the Independents or moderates who barely know him?

Do you think Indy's or moderates are anti-choice?

I think, and polling suggests, that most Americans are against third trimester abortions in most instances.

He didn't directly endorse that . . . and define "most instances". You make it sound like women are just going out and having third trimester abortions as a routine.

C'mon, you know how this will play. It is not what I think but what moderates think and how conservatives will blow this up to become infanticide to help influence them.

See above
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:54 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Brietbart . . . like I said, only with people who would have a problem with him no matter what he said.

You think that this ends with Breitbart? You must not watch conservatives much on CNN, Bill Maher, or elsewhere, or listen to much AM radio, with conservative upon conservative upon conservative, or (and I must admit I'm not talking from experience on this point, but what I've heard or read), in much of the social media such as Facebook. These guys are masters at spreading propaganda, and give 'em an inch, they will turn it into a mile.

Any bets against that this will be on most of the cable news tonight?
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vanexelent
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:00 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Brietbart . . . like I said, only with people who would have a problem with him no matter what he said.

But how will that hurt Beto, or any Democrat? Republicans always frame Dems as being socialist baby-killers. Beto saying he's not in favor of putting restrictions on a woman's right to choose isn't ground breaking.

ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:05 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Unless the Mullahs and Imams have their wish

America, "Home of the Free"

Might be lots and lots of freedom OF Religion
But not freedom FROM Religion

Does that need to be added to our bill of rights?

governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:07 am Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:

ribeye wrote:

I think there's plenty of secular people on both side of political spectrum that do feel there's a room for honest discussion regarding late-term elective abortion

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:17 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Brietbart . . . like I said, only with people who would have a problem with him no matter what he said.

You didn't ask whether it will get talked about. That much is obvious. You asked whether it will hurt. It's not going to hurt him since the only people who will care are those who would never be for him in the first place.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:32 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Brietbart . . . like I said, only with people who would have a problem with him no matter what he said.

There is a better way to answer the question, such as, I'm against late term abortions except when a woman's health is at issue.

I think a significant number of voters don't make up their minds until the last week or so. Will this particular issue have an effect? You seem to have your mind made up that this issue will not have an effect, and I don't know, but I worry as I don't like giving Trump ammo.
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Honestly not trying to be argumentative here, but how is not answering q question perfectly a year and a half before that going to be an issue for him? There's plenty of time to clarify over the next 18 months.

Quote:

You seem to have your mind made up that this issue will not have an effect, and I don't know, but I worry as I don't like giving Trump ammo.

I haven't so much made my mind up about anything as much as I just don't think the brief exchange you posted is going to significantly sway anyone against him who wasn't likely inclined to be against him anyway.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

ringfinger
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Posts: 29418

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:00 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

I’m not even a modern day lefty, and I enjoy Bill Maher. He’s not entirely tribal, and he has no qualms going after some of the extremism and ridiculousness that sometimes occurs on the left.

Also, I think there is a brand of left wing libertarianism that is small, but one i identify with more and I feel like he is in that camp. It’s that hippie/skateboarder, leave me alone, I just want to ride my skateboard and smoke pot kind of thing. (I don’t skate nor smoke pot fwwi lol)

I also really appreciate that he is one of the few that welcomes conservatives on the show for debate.

Bill used to call himself a libertarian, that is before Republicans bogarted the term. He was what many called themselves back in the day, a civil libertarian: one who doesn't want government micromanaging the everyday aspects of the people that doesn't directly impact others. Republicans have since popularized the term libertarian to include businesses, and aspects that do directly impact others, but with large businesses, it is not fighting against the big guy's power over the little guy, but maintaining and supporting the big guy's power over the little guy. What they fail to understand is that businesses also have great power and can ignore the interests of the people when it comes to the environment, workers, and consumers.

The second part of this modern day libertarian phenomena has to do with guns. Conservative libertarians believe there should be little or no regulation when it comes to guns, even though reckless or negligent behavior with a gun can directly impact another or others. Furthermore this impact can be magnified by fighting gun show loopholes, which can further impact the authorities' ability to solve gun related crimes.

Lastly, the biggest hole in these "freedom" issues we hear so much about is that these same libertarian freedom loving conservatives do not believe a woman has the freedom to manage her own body.

Yeah, Maher is probably more of a classic liberal, not the way it is defined today though. I agree that many conservatives tend to be TOO free market while today's leftists tend to be TOO much in favor of governmental oversight. That's one of the problems we have today. The majority of the loudest voices are speaking in the extremes and I really wish they wouldn't. I firmly believe that the best economic system is a capitalistic one, with some controls and regulations in place where necessary.

On your last point about abortion, I disagree. I run in a circle with a bunch of libertarian types (some left, mostly center-right) and of those that are opposed to abortion, it has nothing to do with women's right to manage her own body. That's how the left has painted that picture, but it isn't accurate IMO. Most of them don't really care if a woman wants to get plastic surgery done, get tattoos, cut off her own arm, or sew her elbows together.

The only thing they care about is the life inside. Now, I don't want to get into a debate of what is life, the point is, they don't care what a woman does with her body, they only care about what a man or a woman does with another person's body (that other person being the person inside).

vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:41 am Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

On your last point about abortion, I disagree. I run in a circle with a bunch of libertarian types (some left, mostly center-right) and of those that are opposed to abortion, it has nothing to do with women's right to manage her own body. That's how the left has painted that picture, but it isn't accurate IMO. Most of them don't really care if a woman wants to get plastic surgery done, get tattoos, cut off her own arm, or sew her elbows together.

The only thing they care about is the life inside. Now, I don't want to get into a debate of what is life, the point is, they don't care what a woman does with her body, they only care about what a man or a woman does with another person's body (that other person being the person inside).

Except you can't separate the life growing inside a woman's body from the woman's body. That's not how it goes. If you control one aspect of it, you can control it all.

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