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ringfinger
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 Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
I’m not arguing the merits of what you think identity politics mean. You’ve made it very clear that your rankles go up at the mention of any kind of inequality. My post, which I think you either ignored or misunderstood, was to push back on the idea (yours) that Democrats engage in identity politics while ignoring the practice in your own party (and please let’s not try and lump advocating respect and acceptance of LGBT people to white nationalism). The left gets slammed with the label of being obsessed with identity politics while the GOP literally rose to power on an identity politics/grievance platform.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
I’m not arguing the merits of what you think identity politics mean. You’ve made it very clear that your rankles go up at the mention of any kind of inequality. My post, which I think you either ignored or misunderstood, was to push back on the idea (yours) that Democrats engage in identity politics while ignoring the practice in your own party (and please let’s not try and lump advocating respect and acceptance of LGBT people to white nationalism). The left gets slammed with the label of being obsessed with identity politics while the GOP literally rose to power on an identity politics/grievance platform. |
The Republicans aren't my party. I have never voted for Republican.
I got your point. My point back to you, which may have been missed, was that both parties engage in it whilst accusing the other of doing it. It's not okay, IMO, for Dems to attack Beto for being white, just because conservatives attack trans people using certain bathrooms.
If your suggestion is that one is worse than the other, that's the intersectional hierarchy stuff I am specifically referring to when I say identity politics, that I think is most dangerous and most complicit in terms of feeding the hate machine.
There's nuance in here that I think isn't being grasped (not saying you, just in general). Saying "all people should be treated equally" is not playing identity politics. Saying "Bernie Sanders is too white and too male" is playing identity politics and saying something like that is racist, but, when one doesn't think it is, and they trot racist statements like that out there, they don't get to play victim when hatred in the country rises in response. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
I’m not arguing the merits of what you think identity politics mean. You’ve made it very clear that your rankles go up at the mention of any kind of inequality. My post, which I think you either ignored or misunderstood, was to push back on the idea (yours) that Democrats engage in identity politics while ignoring the practice in your own party (and please let’s not try and lump advocating respect and acceptance of LGBT people to white nationalism). The left gets slammed with the label of being obsessed with identity politics while the GOP literally rose to power on an identity politics/grievance platform. |
The Republicans aren't my party. I have never voted for Republican.
I got your point. My point back to you, which may have been missed, was that both parties engage in it whilst accusing the other of doing it. It's not okay, IMO, for Dems to attack Beto for being white, just because conservatives attack trans people using certain bathrooms.
If your suggestion is that one is worse than the other, that's the intersectional hierarchy stuff I am specifically referring to when I say identity politics, that I think is most dangerous and most complicit in terms of feeding the hate machine.
There's nuance in here that I think isn't being grasped (not saying you, just in general). Saying "all people should be treated equally" is not playing identity politics. Saying "Bernie Sanders is too white and too male" is playing identity politics and saying something like that is racist, but, when one doesn't think it is, and they trot racist statements like that out there, they don't get to play victim when hatred in the country rises in response. |
Im happy to hear you admit that the right wing uses it too. From reading your posts it only seems to bother you when it’s the left wing variety. I do call shenanigans on a call for nuance that comes coupled with a dismissal of the degrees of difference between what you hear on the right and left. I’m not sure who you are quoting in regards to Sanders being too white and male. I don’t watch cable news. People on the far end of the left spectrum all seem to love Sanders and I genuinely have never heard Beto be criticized for being white. I disagree with anyone who says stuff like that, I just think the voices that express those sentiments are mostly on the fringe. White nationalist identity politics is a mainstream Republican feature, spearheaded by their President who is extremely popular within his party. That’s a key distinction that can’t be shrugged off with “well both sides do it so it’s a wash.”
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
I’m not arguing the merits of what you think identity politics mean. You’ve made it very clear that your rankles go up at the mention of any kind of inequality. My post, which I think you either ignored or misunderstood, was to push back on the idea (yours) that Democrats engage in identity politics while ignoring the practice in your own party (and please let’s not try and lump advocating respect and acceptance of LGBT people to white nationalism). The left gets slammed with the label of being obsessed with identity politics while the GOP literally rose to power on an identity politics/grievance platform. |
The Republicans aren't my party. I have never voted for Republican.
I got your point. My point back to you, which may have been missed, was that both parties engage in it whilst accusing the other of doing it. It's not okay, IMO, for Dems to attack Beto for being white, just because conservatives attack trans people using certain bathrooms.
If your suggestion is that one is worse than the other, that's the intersectional hierarchy stuff I am specifically referring to when I say identity politics, that I think is most dangerous and most complicit in terms of feeding the hate machine.
There's nuance in here that I think isn't being grasped (not saying you, just in general). Saying "all people should be treated equally" is not playing identity politics. Saying "Bernie Sanders is too white and too male" is playing identity politics and saying something like that is racist, but, when one doesn't think it is, and they trot racist statements like that out there, they don't get to play victim when hatred in the country rises in response. |
This is a good, useful, and necessary discussion. The problem I have with Democrats using identity politics is not that I disagree with most of its uses, what they are saying and why, but in how Democrats can be tone-deaf as to how others, rightly or wrongly, hear the message. If it is this group this, and that group that, let's help these and let's help those, the people who are not this or that, or these or those--that have been left behind by technology, the changing world, or the Reagan Revolution feeding their glutinous supporters--seem to be thinking, but what about me? Much of what they want, as would seem would be true for most everyone, is to simply find a decent job, and that their leaders understand their problem and are working towards solving it.
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: |
Not to mention Trump won in 2016 on white identity politics. Identity politics basically drives a ton of voting patterns. |
It really is something that right wingers can bemoan the use of identity politics while being completely unaware of the GOPs nasty deployment of it. Hold on one second, there’s a trans person barging their way into my bathroom.
Ok I’m back. If someone is truly against identity politics then fine. But you can’t disqualify a Democrat on the grounds of identity politics and then vote for Trump. At least without admitting his cruel form of it tickles your fancy. |
Whether you're on the left or right, playing identity politics in any form breeds further divisiveness where each team keeps doubling down against the other. Our ethnicities/orientations/etc as minorities should never have been weaponized, ever, by anyone, in order to club the other side. I've been pretty vocal about this for years, and well before Trump.
What you're saying is literally the opposite of what Michelle Obama said when she said ... when they go low, we go high. But instead, it's sadly become a race to the bottom, and unless someone stops it, Trump is just a stop along the way. |
I’m not arguing the merits of what you think identity politics mean. You’ve made it very clear that your rankles go up at the mention of any kind of inequality. My post, which I think you either ignored or misunderstood, was to push back on the idea (yours) that Democrats engage in identity politics while ignoring the practice in your own party (and please let’s not try and lump advocating respect and acceptance of LGBT people to white nationalism). The left gets slammed with the label of being obsessed with identity politics while the GOP literally rose to power on an identity politics/grievance platform. |
The Republicans aren't my party. I have never voted for Republican.
I got your point. My point back to you, which may have been missed, was that both parties engage in it whilst accusing the other of doing it. It's not okay, IMO, for Dems to attack Beto for being white, just because conservatives attack trans people using certain bathrooms.
If your suggestion is that one is worse than the other, that's the intersectional hierarchy stuff I am specifically referring to when I say identity politics, that I think is most dangerous and most complicit in terms of feeding the hate machine.
There's nuance in here that I think isn't being grasped (not saying you, just in general). Saying "all people should be treated equally" is not playing identity politics. Saying "Bernie Sanders is too white and too male" is playing identity politics and saying something like that is racist, but, when one doesn't think it is, and they trot racist statements like that out there, they don't get to play victim when hatred in the country rises in response. |
This is a good, useful, and necessary discussion. The problem I have with Democrats using identity politics is not that I disagree with most of its uses, what they are saying and why, but in how Democrats can be tone-deaf as to how others, rightly or wrongly, hear the message. If it is this group this, and and that group that, let's help these and let's help those, the people who are not this or that, or these or those--that have been left behind by technology, the changing world, or the Reagan Revolution feeding their glutinous supporters--seem to be thinking, but what about me? Much of what they want, as would seem would be true for most everyone, is to simply find a decent job, and that their leaders understand their problem and are working towards solving it. |
I definitely agree that despite having the better product, Democrats have indeed been ineffective in communicating their message to people.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Im happy to hear you admit that the right wing uses it too. From reading your posts it only seems to bother you when it’s the left wing variety. I do call shenanigans on a call for nuance that comes coupled with a dismissal of the degrees of difference between what you hear on the right and left. I’m not sure who you are quoting in regards to Sanders being too white and male. I don’t watch cable news. People on the far end of the left spectrum all seem to love Sanders and I genuinely have never heard Beto be criticized for being white. I disagree with anyone who says stuff like that, I just think the voices that express those sentiments are mostly on the fringe. White nationalist identity politics is a mainstream Republican feature, spearheaded by their President who is extremely popular within his party. That’s a key distinction that can’t be shrugged off with “well both sides do it so it’s a wash.” |
It's pretty disappointing that you've somehow consumed enough information to determine that the average Republican American is a white supremacist, but then, use the reasoning that you haven't consumed enough information to be aware of the counter examples I've brought up and yet somehow, you have consumed enough information to cast them off as fringe. How can you know they are fringe, if you aren't consuming mainstream media?
If that isn't a frightening example of an echo chamber, I don't know what is.
FWIW, these statements aren't fringe. They are mainstream. Unless we're going to debate whether CNN is fringe. Here's the Beto one. There's plenty of Bernie ones too. And they've both since basically been forced to apologize for their skin color at the risk of being called an -ist, but, I'm not going to blow up this discussion with links and post quotes. I'll start with one in hopes that will convince you that these racist attitudes have at the very least permeated the mainstream within the left.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/beto-orourke-funk-drive-2020/index.html
| Quote: | | But the fact that he knows he has the freedom to cast about as a campaign-in-waiting forms, shows how much of his political identity is predicated on being white and male. |
A person doesn't get to say something like this, and then point the finger about race relations in this country. There is way to discuss racial issues, and we're not doing it right. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | realking24 wrote: |
Это все, что у тебя есть. предсказуемый |
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He lives in an America where trolling is ... Presidential. Where conservative propaganda is called news (Fox News/AM radio). Where Trump telling thousands of lies doesn't matter. And where climate change boils down to "what can we do?"
As long as a straight white man is President and minorities are worse off. The realkings of the country are happy. Sounds simplistic. But it's true. And the rich "moderates" who vote with the realkings have no integrity.
Also, in regards to realking, if someone doesn't vaccine their child they should be in jail. Public safety, child endangerment, heck I could make an argument for abuse. |
IIRC day before yesterday I heard on the news it snowed in Compton Ca. If that doesn't convince people of the reality of climate change, nothing will.
I grew up in a era when vaccinations were free. They were administered by a doctor at the school nurses office. Back in the day school nurses and offices were common.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's pretty disappointing that you've somehow consumed enough information to determine that the average Republican American is a white supremacist |
An interesting interpretation of my comments, but an unfortunate swing and a miss. I never said the average Republican is a white supremacist. What we do know is that Trump is an extremely popular President amongst GOP voters, and by virtue of being elected President, has brought white nationalist grievance rhetoric into the mainstream. If white nationalist ideas aren't popular with GOP voters why did they elect a guy that devotes so much time to it? Whether the average Trump voter agrees with white nationalism or just doesn't care enough about it to withhold their vote is anybody's guess.
| Quote: | FWIW, these statements aren't fringe. They are mainstream. Unless we're going to debate whether CNN is fringe. Here's the Beto one. There's plenty of Bernie ones too. And they've both since basically been forced to apologize for their skin color at the risk of being called an -ist, but, I'm not going to blow up this discussion with links and post quotes. I'll start with one in hopes that will convince you that these racist attitudes have at the very least permeated the mainstream within the left.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/beto-orourke-funk-drive-2020/index.html
A person doesn't get to say something like this, and then point the finger about race relations in this country. There is way to discuss racial issues, and we're not doing it right. |
I read the op-ed you posted. Let's set aside for the moment in a discussion of mainstream ideas you're countering the words of the President of the United States with an op-ed on CNN.com. Those hold equal weight, I'm sure. I think you've wildly missed the point of the piece if you think it is criticizing Beto O'Rourke for being white and male. The point of the op-ed was to point out the double standard between male and female candidates. You may not like the way she articulated or argued for her position, but it's pretty difficult to argue she's wrong about that disparity.
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Last edited by ocho on Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | It's pretty disappointing that you've somehow consumed enough information to determine that the average Republican American is a white supremacist |
An interesting interpretation of my comments, but an unfortunate swing and a miss. I never said the average Republican is a racist. What we do know is that Trump is an extremely popular President amongst GOP voters, and by virtue of being elected President, has brought white nationalist grievance rhetoric into the mainstream. If white nationalist ideas aren't popular with GOP voters why did they elect a guy that devotes so much time to it? Whether the average Trump voter agrees with white nationalism or just doesn't care enough about it to withhold their vote is anybody's guess.
| Quote: | FWIW, these statements aren't fringe. They are mainstream. Unless we're going to debate whether CNN is fringe. Here's the Beto one. There's plenty of Bernie ones too. And they've both since basically been forced to apologize for their skin color at the risk of being called an -ist, but, I'm not going to blow up this discussion with links and post quotes. I'll start with one in hopes that will convince you that these racist attitudes have at the very least permeated the mainstream within the left.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/beto-orourke-funk-drive-2020/index.html
A person doesn't get to say something like this, and then point the finger about race relations in this country. There is way to discuss racial issues, and we're not doing it right. |
I read the op-ed you posted. Let's set aside for the moment in a discussion of mainstream ideas you're countering the words of the President of the United States with an op-ed on CNN.com. Those hold equal weight, I'm sure. I think you've wildly missed the point of the piece if you think it is criticizing Beto O'Rourke for being white and male. The point of the op-ed was to point out the double standard between male and female candidates. You may not like the way she articulated or argued for her position, but it's pretty difficult to argue she's wrong about that disparity. |
She didn't point out a double standard. She hypothesized a double standard. We have no idea how people would actually react if a female democratic candidate mirrored Beto's every move.
But ok, let's just accept your premise in good faith. It's just about male and female candidate disparities, and not really about Beto at all, right?
Well, then is this how it should be promoted?
https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/status/1086026887552479233
| Quote: |
Verified account
@CNNPolitics
Beto’s excellent adventure drips with white male privilege | Analysis by CNN’s Nia-Malika Henderson |
We are never going to end this cycle of hatred unless we start to look in the mirror and realize that by putting stuff like this out there, we are feeding it, not reducing it. |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Have to admit donny...I won't stand for people not standing for it  |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | She didn't point out a double standard. She hypothesized a double standard. We have no idea how people would actually react if a female democratic candidate mirrored Beto's every move.
But ok, let's just accept your premise in good faith. It's just about male and female candidate disparities, and not really about Beto at all, right? |
I appreciate the good faith gesture, though not sure why you think it's hypothesized. It requires quite a lot of effort to ignore the way female candidates are talked about. Race, like it or not, is a factor too. Is it your contention that Obama could do and say the things Trump has said and done and have paid no consequence for it? That it would be covered and received the same? The crux of the matter here seems to be that you resent anyone pointing this stuff out because you find it divisive. The people that this stuff affects, however, don't want to shut up about it simply because it makes you uncomfortable. A male candidate should be able to write a blog post about his feelings without being disqualified. So should a female candidate. I don't know if we can get there without discussing first why only one of them pays a price. It's an inflection point we've been reaching a lot lately on a variety of subjects.
| Quote: | Well, then is this how it should be promoted?
https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/status/1086026887552479233
Quote:
Verified account
@CNNPolitics
Beto’s excellent adventure drips with white male privilege | Analysis by CNN’s Nia-Malika Henderson
We are never going to end this cycle of hatred unless we start to look in the mirror and realize that by putting stuff like this out there, we are feeding it, not reducing it. |
Authors typically don't write their own headlines, so I don't know who is responsible for that one. There's probably a better way to word it. I think you've made quite a giant leap to characterize this as "hatred."
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
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Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I definitely agree that despite having the better product, Democrats have indeed been ineffective in communicating their message to people. |
“People don’t buy because of what you are selling, they buy because of why you are selling it.” -Simon Sinek
I might have paraphrased that a bit, but I love this quote when it comes to trying to sell anyone on anything. He talks about how TiVo had every advantage you could want in a product. Better product, better engineers, plenty of money, people used to even say, “I’ll TiVo it!”. So why did TiVo result in failure? Because they were trying to sell what TiVo did instead of selling why TiVo existed in the first place.
Instead of selling based on features, they should have just said something like this: “Are you the type of person who likes to control everything in your world? Then boy do we have a product for you.” Start with the why, then explain the what, then explain the how.
Most companies focus only on the what and the how, and often in the reverse order. Somewhere in there is a lesson. |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | She didn't point out a double standard. She hypothesized a double standard. We have no idea how people would actually react if a female democratic candidate mirrored Beto's every move.
But ok, let's just accept your premise in good faith. It's just about male and female candidate disparities, and not really about Beto at all, right? |
I appreciate the good faith gesture, though not sure why you think it's hypothesized. It requires quite a lot of effort to ignore the way female candidates are talked about. Race, like it or not, is a factor too. Is it your contention that Obama could do and say the things Trump has said and done and have paid no consequence for it? That it would be covered and received the same? The crux of the matter here seems to be that you resent anyone pointing this stuff out because you find it divisive. The people that this stuff affects, however, don't want to shut up about it simply because it makes you uncomfortable. A male candidate should be able to write a blog post about his feelings without being disqualified. So should a female candidate. I don't know if we can get there without discussing first why only one of them pays a price. It's an inflection point we've been reaching a lot lately on a variety of subjects.
| Quote: | Well, then is this how it should be promoted?
https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/status/1086026887552479233
Quote:
Verified account
@CNNPolitics
Beto’s excellent adventure drips with white male privilege | Analysis by CNN’s Nia-Malika Henderson
We are never going to end this cycle of hatred unless we start to look in the mirror and realize that by putting stuff like this out there, we are feeding it, not reducing it. |
Authors typically don't write their own headlines, so I don't know who is responsible for that one. There's probably a better way to word it. I think you've made quite a giant leap to characterize this as "hatred." |
You're honing in on the crux of the matter. If we can just get everyone to shut up about racial, gender, sexuality, or religious bigotry, it wouldn't be a problem. We could all come together and continue to enjoy those things in peace, and there wouldn't be so much division. In the old days, they used to break this down into a simple phrase, "know your place".
The "there's no problem, and if there is, it won't get solved by addressing it, and they do it too, and I hate it on all sides, so let's just shut up" defense of the status quo is neither new nor novel. It's the height of bad faith, and one of the reasons you shouldn't go down the rabbit hole with guys like Ringfinger.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mueller final report submitted to DOJ. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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BREAKING NEWS: Mueller has finished the report and sent it to Barr.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Report could be sent to Congress as soon as this weekend, per NBC.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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My guess is that Barr will slow walk it by releasing the most convenient summary of it.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | My guess is that Barr will slow walk it by releasing the most convenient summary of it. |
my understanding is it's just a summary and Barr and Mueller/Rosenstein will meet to see how much of the underlying report to support the conclusions will be released to congress and the public per fox news |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Barr, in his letter to Congress, said that none of Mueller's actions were inappropriate or unwarranted. Barr was required to report that to Congress.
Basically, they didn't interfere with Mueller's work.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm wondering if Mueller is trying to keep the nuts and bolts of the investigation from the White House until Congress gets it..no sneak previews |
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| So does this mean no more indictments? Nobody else going to jail? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Authors typically don't write their own headlines, so I don't know who is responsible for that one. There's probably a better way to word it. I think you've made quite a giant leap to characterize this as "hatred." |
The headline and who wrote it is beside the point here. That article (and headline) was just an example to counter the point that people going after Beto's whiteness is just a fringe element. CNN clearly isn't fringe and is probably the very definition of mainstream. So just imagine then, what lurks on the fringes.
Want to bag on his policy? Have at it. On his experience in government? Go for it. Even on his aloofness? Your call. But once we dip our toes in the game of qualifying anyone's viability on the basis of skin color or gender or other immutable characteristic, it's a losing proposition that contributes to, not reduces, hatred. (And you missed my point about hatred. I didn't say the article was necessarily an example of hatred, but rather, that that type of rhetoric contributes to inflaming the hate cycle).
Yes, the right does it too, and has done it for as long as I can remember. But that is irrelevant and has no bearing on whether it should or shouldn't occur on the left as well. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That article (and headline) was just an example to counter the point that people going after Beto's whiteness is just a fringe element. |
Ring: With all due respect, you've badly misunderstood that op-ed. It doesn't "go after" his whiteness at all.
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | | So does this mean no more indictments? Nobody else going to jail? |
Here's one CNN reporter:
| Quote: | @LauraAJarrett
Special Counsel Mueller is not recommending ANY further indictments am told |
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