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governator
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 Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | That article (and headline) was just an example to counter the point that people going after Beto's whiteness is just a fringe element. |
Ring: With all due respect, you've badly misunderstood that op-ed. It doesn't "go after" his whiteness at all. |
Read it again. And then again?
(Nevermind, don’t bother. Let’s just hope for more of that kind of great content on all sides?) |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | That article (and headline) was just an example to counter the point that people going after Beto's whiteness is just a fringe element. |
Ring: With all due respect, you've badly misunderstood that op-ed. It doesn't "go after" his whiteness at all. |
Read it again. And then again? |
I comprehended it the first time. I'm not sure I'll be able to penetrate your wall here but bemoaning a double standard is not attacking his whiteness. The crux of the article isn't "it sucks that Beto is white" it's "it sucks white candidates are treated differently than non-white candidates."
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
Just mean it’s not enough to charge a POTUS (has to be the highest burden of proof) but I’m sure the report will show there was collusion |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
Just mean it’s not enough to charge a POTUS (has to be the highest burden of proof) but I’m sure the report will show there was collusion |
Not just POTUS. They aren't charging anyone.
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
Just mean it’s not enough to charge a POTUS (has to be the highest burden of proof) but I’m sure the report will show there was collusion |
Not just POTUS. They aren't charging anyone. |
No reporters know yet at this point, let’s wait for the actual report |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Kamala Harris
@KamalaHarris
Americans deserve to know the truth now that the Mueller report is complete. The report must be released immediately and AG Barr must publicly testify under oath about the investigation's findings. We need total transparency here. |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
Just mean it’s not enough to charge a POTUS (has to be the highest burden of proof) but I’m sure the report will show there was collusion |
Not just POTUS. They aren't charging anyone. |
Doesn't mean anything. He could've passed on those recommendations to SDNY or something.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Seth Abramson has a good thread on what this could mean:
LINK
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | Seth Abramson has a good thread on what this could mean:
LINK |
Don't worry. The tweet from naranja declaring that it was all a witch hunt will be forthcoming in the next few hours. |
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non-player zealot
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | Seth Abramson has a good thread on what this could mean:
LINK |
Don't worry. The tweet from naranja declaring that it was all a witch hunt will be forthcoming in the next few hours. |
Don't you mean Naranja con ojos de tiza blanca? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
Not sure what you mean. The investigation is far from over, especially accounting for the limiting circumstances. This is more the GOP line pushed through the media that this is the big moment. It's just a big moment.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism. |
And again, Mueller not choosing to charge Trump or his close associates in no way indicates there is no collusion or obstruction, or that they won't be charged in connection with it. (how's that for a quadruple negative??)
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
Agreed.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism. |
Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Champagne of beer... Mueller Time! |
No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats. |
That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is) |
I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years. |
There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism. |
Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years. |
There have certainly been those who beat the impeachment drum (although you will notice that the Democratic leadership doesn't), but many of us have seen that as a waste of time with a GOP senate, and none of the other things are off the table. My guess has always been that Mueller is going to put his eggs in a lot of baskets because of who controls the DOJ and the white house.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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In the short term, there will likely be a lot of vindication spin, but there is a lot to play out.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, those of you questioning Pelosi yet again are shown how smart she is yet again. If Trump is getting taken down, it will almost assuredly have to happen after he's president.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, read the Seth Abramson thread Wilt linked-to above.
Ah, what the hell....
| Quote: | (THREAD) BREAKING NEWS: Mueller has sent a report to DOJ that DOJ is representing is "comprehensive" and will shortly be publicly summarized. A lot of the reporting surrounding this major event is *wrong*—so I'll try to report things accurately. I hope you'll read on and retweet.
1/ At the risk of sounding like Mike Myers' famous SNL talk-show host Linda Richman, "Mueller's final Trump-Russia report" is neither "Mueller's," final, about "Trump-Russia" or a "report." So all the breathless "reporting" today suggesting otherwise is inaccurate and misleading.
2/ What we call the "Trump-Russia" investigation is a web of criminal, counterintelligence, and Congressional investigations that intersect with the work of the Special Counsel's Office. So there are three key "c"-words here—"criminal," "counterintelligence," and "Congressional."
3/ Special Counsel Mueller is part of the "criminal" investigation; Mueller's work *intersects* with the "counterintelligence" investigation; and his work feeds into and draws from the Congressional investigation. And here's the key: all three of these investigations are ongoing.
4/ As part of the "criminal" investigation, Mueller investigated some things his office then prosecuted; he investigated some things his office handed off to others; he investigated some things he chose not to prosecute; he investigated some things he is letting Congress handle.
5/ Mueller's "criminal" investigations—that is, the information he derived during his nearly 24 months of *criminal investigative work*—then fed directly into multiple "counterintelligence" investigations and will undoubtedly feed into many ongoing "Congressional" investigations.
6/ The news we got today is that Mueller will not *himself* be bringing any more indictments. That's it. That's *all* that has just happened. Any reporting that says the "Russia probe is done" is false. Any reporting that "Mueller's work is done" is false. It is only what I said.
7/ Focusing *exclusively* on what Mueller's office will be doing going forward and *exclusively* on the criminal investigation—so, a small part of what we somewhat misleadingly call the "Trump-Russia scandal"—we can see that Mueller may be done indicting (*maybe*) but that's it.
8/ As of today, Mueller had ten attorneys working for him (himself not included, I believe) down from seventeen originally. But we found out this week that certain attorneys who "left" his Office will *still be doing work for it*. Why? Because the Office has some work left to do.
9/ That Office, whether still formally constituted or not, will see its attorneys prosecute Roger Stone in November, eight months from now. It will see its cooperating witness Rick Gates participate in "multiple" ongoing federal criminal investigations. And that's just the start:
10/ The Office will see its cooperating witness Mike Flynn testify in the Kian trial in July (Kian was a NatSec official on Trump's transition team whose case intersects with all the other parts of the Trump-Russia investigation). Flynn is also involved in *multiple* other cases.
11/ The Office will continue to pursue grand jury testimony from a Roger Stone witness, and continue to pursue a substantial trove of documents (for its grand jury, which is seated through July as far as was last reported) from an as-yet unnamed state-owned foreign corporation.
12/ The Office has—it appears—referred to DOJ for prosecution at least one man it previously promised to prosecute (Corsi) and presumably has referred to DOJ for *possible* prosecution a whole host of "Trumpworld" figures who Congress has recently accused of perjuring themselves.
13/ We also heard from major media over the past few weeks that Bob Mueller's office was referring out an unknown number of new cases to other federal prosecutors, including presumably—based on past cooperation and information-sharing practices—prosecutors in SDNY, EDVA, and DC.
14/ We *also* know from major media that there are many ongoing cases for which Mueller's office conducted some of the investigation, all of the investigation, or shared information with the case's primary investigators, such as Cohen's SDNY cases and the Maria Butina case in DC.
15/ What some in the media decided—I do not know why—is that the only cases they would associate with Mueller would be (a) indictments Mueller's office brought, (b) that were completed before he issued any report to the DOJ, and (c) immediately (on their face) involved collusion.
16/ So you have reporters today blithely saying that "Mueller is done" when Mueller will be prosecuting Roger Stone for most of 2019. You have reporters saying "he's done" when cases he initiated are not only ongoing in multiple jurisdictions but may well provide new intel there.
17/ If Roger Stone decides to cooperate—before or after conviction—that's Mueller. The same is true for Kian. The same is even true for Manafort (who can cooperate to reduce his sentence for the next year). But the same is also true for the many cases Gates and Flynn are working.
18/ The same is true for Butina. And for indictments that arise from the ongoing counterintelligence investigation(s). Or any new criminal referrals that go from Congress to DOJ. The same is true for cases Mueller began—that then went elsewhere—that could lead to new indictments.
19/ The same is true for any cases that Mueller passed directly on to DOJ to let DOJ decide whether to prosecute them or not. In short, media can tell us today that *Mueller himself* will bring no new indictments—but even that might be conditioned by what happens in Stone's case. |
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