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ocho
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 Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I watch MSNBC. Daily. |
Oh I can tell. 
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | She has her own show on the network. She's not just a talking head. She's one of the most prominent faces on the network. And she's hardly alone in pumping up the Mueller Investigation on that network. It's ok now to toss out baseless conspiracies just because they're theoretically possible? We used to laugh at conservatives for doing this stuff. |
Again, Trump appointed him, Republicans voted for him, his performance at the confirmation hearing wasn't reassuring, and his role during Iran-Contra wasn't exemplary. While it might not be politically smart to scream cover up this early, it's nowhere near as irresponsible or baseless what the Republicans, all of them and not just one person that has a show on weekend morning on Fox, did with Benghazi and you know it. You picked one person declared what she said as an embarrassment for all Democrats. It makes no sense. |
How many examples of hysteria over the Mueller report over the last two years should I provide before making a general critique of how Democrats have covered and responded to this? If you think this is the only example of stuff like this to appear on MSNBC since Trump was elected you are mistaken. Does it have to be worse than Benghazi to be irresponsible and dumb? |
What would your reaction be if all the things we've discovered in the last two years - Trump Tower meetings, Trump Tower Moscow negotiations, over 100 previously undisclosed meetings with Russians, Trump's repeated attempts to fire Mueller, to fire Sessions, to fire Rosenstein, indictements of Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadoupolous, Stone, Cohen, Manafort's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's countless attempts to obstruct justice and delegitimize the investigation, and many other things I can't recall right now - were disclosed only now in the Mueller report?
Those things were all talked about by Democrats in the last two years, all of them facts and none of them irresponsible and dumb, while being ignored or dismissed by the right.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | She has her own show on the network. She's not just a talking head. She's one of the most prominent faces on the network. And she's hardly alone in pumping up the Mueller Investigation on that network. It's ok now to toss out baseless conspiracies just because they're theoretically possible? We used to laugh at conservatives for doing this stuff. |
Again, Trump appointed him, Republicans voted for him, his performance at the confirmation hearing wasn't reassuring, and his role during Iran-Contra wasn't exemplary. While it might not be politically smart to scream cover up this early, it's nowhere near as irresponsible or baseless what the Republicans, all of them and not just one person that has a show on weekend morning on Fox, did with Benghazi and you know it. You picked one person declared what she said as an embarrassment for all Democrats. It makes no sense. |
How many examples of hysteria over the Mueller report over the last two years should I provide before making a general critique of how Democrats have covered and responded to this? If you think this is the only example of stuff like this to appear on MSNBC since Trump was elected you are mistaken. Does it have to be worse than Benghazi to be irresponsible and dumb? |
What would your reaction be if all the things we've discovered in the last two years - Trump Tower meetings, Trump Tower Moscow negotiations, over 100 previously undisclosed meetings with Russians, Trump's repeated attempts to fire Mueller, to fire Sessions, to fire Rosenstein, indictements of Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadoupolous, Stone, Cohen, Manafort's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's countless attempts to obstruct justice and delegitimize the investigation, and many other things I can't recall right now - were disclosed only now in the Mueller report?
Those things were all talked about by Democrats in the last two years, all of them facts and none of them irresponsible and dumb, while being ignored or dismissed by the right. |
I'm not defending Trump or the Right, and there's more than enough established Trump corruption to discuss without wildly speculating in a baseless and irresponsible way or peddling conspiracy theories. There's no reason to defend it. Trump being a corrupt monster is not license to traffic in this stuff, nor is calling it out an endorsement of him.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have a feeling the Mueller report will be heavily redacted. Query Does the House, Congress, have authority to release the redacted portions.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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The point is that all of the things that I mentioned and forgot to mention (there are so many freaking scandals and abuses of power), Trump's disregard for democracy and political institutions, and the cowardly behavior by Republicans, make a theory about a possible cover up not irresponsible and not wild speculation and not baseless. It's very much possible. And the fact that you keep comparing it to what Republicans did regarding Benghazi is crazy, especially since you are a thoughtful, reasonable person. It makes no sense.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | She has her own show on the network. She's not just a talking head. She's one of the most prominent faces on the network. And she's hardly alone in pumping up the Mueller Investigation on that network. It's ok now to toss out baseless conspiracies just because they're theoretically possible? We used to laugh at conservatives for doing this stuff. |
Again, Trump appointed him, Republicans voted for him, his performance at the confirmation hearing wasn't reassuring, and his role during Iran-Contra wasn't exemplary. While it might not be politically smart to scream cover up this early, it's nowhere near as irresponsible or baseless what the Republicans, all of them and not just one person that has a show on weekend morning on Fox, did with Benghazi and you know it. You picked one person declared what she said as an embarrassment for all Democrats. It makes no sense. |
How many examples of hysteria over the Mueller report over the last two years should I provide before making a general critique of how Democrats have covered and responded to this? If you think this is the only example of stuff like this to appear on MSNBC since Trump was elected you are mistaken. Does it have to be worse than Benghazi to be irresponsible and dumb? |
Hysteria? Examples? I'd start with one.
Now, if you are looking for hysteria regarding Mueller, try watching Fox or listening to Rush. (And please don't try some false equivalency argument here. What the conservative said and did with 10 investigations, most of which they led, is nothing compared to Joy Reid wondering about the biases in the Trump White House (in their own words), and with his hand-picked soldiers)
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | The point is that all of the things that I mentioned and forgot to mention (there are so many freaking scandals and abuses of power), Trump's disregard for democracy and political institutions, and the cowardly behavior by Republicans, make a theory about a possible cover up not irresponsible and not wild speculation and not baseless. It's very much possible. And the fact that you keep comparing it to what Republicans did regarding Benghazi is crazy, especially since you are a thoughtful, reasonable person. It makes no sense. |
I didn't bring up Benghazi, ribeye did. And i said Republicans should be embarrassed by how they acted. Some of those mistakes are being made by Democrats here. That in no way is comparing this to Benghazi. You're essentially saying Trump is so bad that journalists have a pass to tee off on any conspiracy theory or speculation they choose. I profoundly disagree with that. There ought to have been some introspection, especially from that network, on how they covered and obsessed over the Russia Investigation when it turned up no new indictments. Instead they aired a segment where a host insinuated it's a cover up because she didn't like the findings.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I have a feeling the Mueller report will be heavily redacted. Query Does the House, Congress, have authority to release the redacted portions. |
If they receive it, undoubtedly, but first, the House and Senate must receive the full report so if your question is will they receive the full report? Here's my guess:
Republicans say no--this ain't no Benghazi or private email server.
Democrats say yes--since
| Quote: |
The Justice Department’s recent decision to provide Congress with a wide range of documents surrounding the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails will increase pressure on DOJ to be fully transparent about Robert Mueller’s special counsel investigation into President Donald Trump and Russian interference in the 2016 election |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | She has her own show on the network. She's not just a talking head. She's one of the most prominent faces on the network. And she's hardly alone in pumping up the Mueller Investigation on that network. It's ok now to toss out baseless conspiracies just because they're theoretically possible? We used to laugh at conservatives for doing this stuff. |
Again, Trump appointed him, Republicans voted for him, his performance at the confirmation hearing wasn't reassuring, and his role during Iran-Contra wasn't exemplary. While it might not be politically smart to scream cover up this early, it's nowhere near as irresponsible or baseless what the Republicans, all of them and not just one person that has a show on weekend morning on Fox, did with Benghazi and you know it. You picked one person declared what she said as an embarrassment for all Democrats. It makes no sense. |
How many examples of hysteria over the Mueller report over the last two years should I provide before making a general critique of how Democrats have covered and responded to this? If you think this is the only example of stuff like this to appear on MSNBC since Trump was elected you are mistaken. Does it have to be worse than Benghazi to be irresponsible and dumb? |
What would your reaction be if all the things we've discovered in the last two years - Trump Tower meetings, Trump Tower Moscow negotiations, over 100 previously undisclosed meetings with Russians, Trump's repeated attempts to fire Mueller, to fire Sessions, to fire Rosenstein, indictements of Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadoupolous, Stone, Cohen, Manafort's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's countless attempts to obstruct justice and delegitimize the investigation, and many other things I can't recall right now - were disclosed only now in the Mueller report?
Those things were all talked about by Democrats in the last two years, all of them facts and none of them irresponsible and dumb, while being ignored or dismissed by the right. |
I'm not defending Trump or the Right, and there's more than enough established Trump corruption to discuss without wildly speculating in a baseless and irresponsible way or peddling conspiracy theories. There's no reason to defend it. Trump being a corrupt monster is not license to traffic in this stuff, nor is calling it out an endorsement of him. |
What are these conspiracy theories and by whom are they being propagated?
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | The point is that all of the things that I mentioned and forgot to mention (there are so many freaking scandals and abuses of power), Trump's disregard for democracy and political institutions, and the cowardly behavior by Republicans, make a theory about a possible cover up not irresponsible and not wild speculation and not baseless. It's very much possible. And the fact that you keep comparing it to what Republicans did regarding Benghazi is crazy, especially since you are a thoughtful, reasonable person. It makes no sense. |
I didn't bring up Benghazi, ribeye did. And i said Republicans should be embarrassed by how they acted. Some of those mistakes are being made by Democrats here. That in no way is comparing this to Benghazi. You're essentially saying Trump is so bad that journalists have a pass to tee off on any conspiracy theory or speculation they choose. I profoundly disagree with that. There ought to have been some introspection, especially from that network, on how they covered and obsessed over the Russia Investigation when it turned up no new indictments. Instead they aired a segment where a host insinuated it's a cover up because she didn't like the findings. |
They covered it just fine, including the many indictments, abuses of power, and consistent disregard for our democracy and political institutions. You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger when, in fact, this adminstration is caught up in the biggest scandal in modern history. You are arguing for them now with your false equivalencies.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger |
This is patently false.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What are these conspiracy theories and by whom are they being propagated? |
Ribeye, I'm going to respectfully disengage with you. You watch MSNBC every day and think there's nothing wrong with it. Repeating their own content back to you, which you found no fault with the first time, is not a productive exercise for me.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger |
This is patently false. |
I don't understand how you can declare defeat before even seeing Mueller's report. It's... bizarre.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger |
This is patently false. |
What do you call it when your first response was that the Democrats should be embarrassed.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | What are these conspiracy theories and by whom are they being propagated? |
Ribeye, I'm going to respectfully disengage with you. You watch MSNBC every day and think there's nothing wrong with it. Repeating their own content back to you, which you found no fault with the first time, is not a productive exercise for me. |
You are right, I don't think what one person said, which I believe I generally or somewhat agree with, though I have not seen the segment, is worthy of calling this an embarrassment for Democrats.
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Dominator
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger |
This is patently false. |
Not really
"The MSNBC talking heads pumped up the Mueller investigation for two years and now that it didn't produce the results they were hoping for it's because it's a cover up?"
You don't know what results will be produced. Nobody does. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dominator wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | You're now arguing the Republican narrative that the Mueller report is a nothing burger |
This is patently false. |
Not really
"The MSNBC talking heads pumped up the Mueller investigation for two years and now that it didn't produce the results they were hoping for it's because it's a cover up?"
You don't know what results will be produced. Nobody does. |
We know that no new indictments were recommended, which is more than enough to know it falls well short of what their hosts wanted.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | She has her own show on the network. She's not just a talking head. She's one of the most prominent faces on the network. And she's hardly alone in pumping up the Mueller Investigation on that network. It's ok now to toss out baseless conspiracies just because they're theoretically possible? We used to laugh at conservatives for doing this stuff. |
Again, Trump appointed him, Republicans voted for him, his performance at the confirmation hearing wasn't reassuring, and his role during Iran-Contra wasn't exemplary. While it might not be politically smart to scream cover up this early, it's nowhere near as irresponsible or baseless what the Republicans, all of them and not just one person that has a show on weekend morning on Fox, did with Benghazi and you know it. You picked one person declared what she said as an embarrassment for all Democrats. It makes no sense. |
How many examples of hysteria over the Mueller report over the last two years should I provide before making a general critique of how Democrats have covered and responded to this? If you think this is the only example of stuff like this to appear on MSNBC since Trump was elected you are mistaken. Does it have to be worse than Benghazi to be irresponsible and dumb? |
What would your reaction be if all the things we've discovered in the last two years - Trump Tower meetings, Trump Tower Moscow negotiations, over 100 previously undisclosed meetings with Russians, Trump's repeated attempts to fire Mueller, to fire Sessions, to fire Rosenstein, indictements of Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadoupolous, Stone, Cohen, Manafort's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's connections to Russian oligarchs, Trump's countless attempts to obstruct justice and delegitimize the investigation, and many other things I can't recall right now - were disclosed only now in the Mueller report?
Those things were all talked about by Democrats in the last two years, all of them facts and none of them irresponsible and dumb, while being ignored or dismissed by the right. |
I'm not defending Trump or the Right, and there's more than enough established Trump corruption to discuss without wildly speculating in a baseless and irresponsible way or peddling conspiracy theories. There's no reason to defend it. Trump being a corrupt monster is not license to traffic in this stuff, nor is calling it out an endorsement of him. |
Yeah, I am very puzzled as to why ribeye and Wilt seem to view the comments about how this looks for the Dems as somehow being defending Trump or the Right. Especially given years of posting history.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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REMINDER. NO ONE HAS READ THE REPORT YET.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Mehdi Hasan Verified account @mehdirhasan
Imagine, just imagine, if Mueller had been silent for past 2 years, held everything back, & then on Fri evening, announced 37 (!) indictments, including of Trump's lawyer, national security adviser & campaign manager. We'd be in shock. The White House would be in chaos & crisis. |
When people dismiss Mueller as having done nothing, they are dismissing not only the report which we haven't read, but also the above. It's not nothing. It means something. It also triggered a dozen other investigations that were farmed out to federal, state and city prosecutors. And it has triggered multiple congressional investigations (finally).
Again, just substitute the name "Obama" or "Clinton" and tell me the above is no big deal. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Mehdi Hasan Verified account @mehdirhasan
Imagine, just imagine, if Mueller had been silent for past 2 years, held everything back, & then on Fri evening, announced 37 (!) indictments, including of Trump's lawyer, national security adviser & campaign manager. We'd be in shock. The White House would be in chaos & crisis. |
When people dismiss Mueller as having done nothing, they are dismissing not only the report which we haven't read, but also the above. It's not nothing. It means something. It also triggered a dozen other investigations that were farmed out to federal, state and city prosecutors. And it has triggered multiple congressional investigations (finally).
Again, just substitute the name "Obama" or "Clinton" and tell me the above is no big deal. |
Sorry . . . but where the hell did anyone here say that?
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I am very puzzled as to why ribeye and Wilt seem to view the comments about how this looks for the Dems as somehow being defending Trump or the Right. Especially given years of posting history. |
I don't think ocho is defending Trump, I think he's unfairly describing what Democrats have done and using the word "embarrassment" when there's nothing to be embarrassed about. The Democrats have approached this presidency just right, considering how unlawful, corrupt, and authoritarian it is.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Quote: |
Yeah, I am very puzzled as to why ribeye and Wilt seem to view the comments about how this looks for the Dems as somehow being defending Trump or the Right. Especially given years of posting history. |
I don't think ocho is defending Trump, I think he's unfairly describing what Democrats have done and using the word "embarrassment" when there's nothing to be embarrassed about. |
I agree entirely. Disappointed? Yes. Embarrassed? Hardly.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Quote: |
Yeah, I am very puzzled as to why ribeye and Wilt seem to view the comments about how this looks for the Dems as somehow being defending Trump or the Right. Especially given years of posting history. |
I don't think ocho is defending Trump, I think he's unfairly describing what Democrats have done and using the word "embarrassment" when there's nothing to be embarrassed about. The Democrats have approached this presidency just right, considering how unlawful, corrupt, and authoritarian it is. |
And I think you're dramatically underselling what a huge, daily, gargantuan deal Democrats in the media have made about this in comparison to what has been uncovered thus far. I disagree that drumming this up every single day has been the right approach. I think public mistrust of the media will increase because of this.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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It's only the biggest scandal since Watergate.
As I said above, imagine all the things we have discovered in the last two years - all the indictments, abuses of power, all the lies - were just released by Mueller.
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