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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Looking on the bright side, maybe now the 2020 Democrats can just focus on healthcare, GOP tax cuts for the rich that hurt the middle class, Medicare, Social Security and government corruption like they did to win the mid-terms.

#NancyPelosiWasRight


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject:

On the face of it this is a GOP win. Important to remember that we never counted on GOP votes in 2020, but to also remember that we did benefit from them in the 2018 house, and that we need to appeal to some independents.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject:

So, can Trump, logically, still call the Muller investigation a witch hunt?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject:

Atlantic: The Question the Mueller Report Has Not Answered. Why?

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Good news, America. Russia helped install your president. But although he owes his job in large part to that help, the president did not conspire or collude with his helpers. He was the beneficiary of a foreign intelligence operation, but not an active participant in that operation. He received the stolen goods, but he did not conspire with the thieves in advance.

This is what Donald Trump’s administration and its enablers in Congress and the media are already calling exoneration. But it offers no reassurance to Americans who cherish the independence and integrity of their political process.

The question unanswered by the attorney general’s summary of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report is: Why? Russian President Vladimir Putin took an extreme risk by interfering in the 2016 election as he did. Had Hillary Clinton won the presidency—the most likely outcome—Russia would have been exposed to fierce retaliation by a powerful adversary. The prize of a Trump presidency must have glittered alluringly, indeed, to Putin and his associates. Why?
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
So, can Trump, logically, still call the Muller investigation a witch hunt?


He already has. He wants it investigated for harassing "your president."
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...


I don't know, but something smells.

Why did Trump, Sessions, Kushner, Junior, Cohen, Manafort, Flynn and dozens of Trump campaign people lie repeatedly about their scores of contacts with Russians if they didn't do anything wrong?

Giant pieces of the puzzle unaccounted for.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject:

One thing I’d like to know is what were Barr and Rosenstein doing at the White House the day before the report was delivered.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject:

Mother Jones: Trump Aided and Abetted Russia’s Attack. That Was Treachery. Full Stop. The scandal may not be a crime. It’s a betrayal.

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On Sunday afternoon Attorney General William Barr sent a letter to Congress noting that Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation “did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” The message also noted that Mueller could not exonerate President Donald Trump of obstruction of justice, but that Barr himself had decided that the evidence Mueller developed was “insufficient to establish” that Trump had obstructed justice. Trump proclaimed it was “complete and total exoneration.” And Trump champions popped the cork and declared case closed, nothing to see, end of story, no need for further investigation, Trump did no wrong.

Well, that is fake news.

Barr’s note is clear that Mueller did not uncover evidence Trump and his gang were in direct cahoots with Russia’s covert operation to interfere with the US election and boost Trump’s odds. But the hyper-focus on this sort of collusion—as if Trump instructed Russian hackers on how to penetrate the computer network of the Democratic National Committee—has always diverted attention from a basic and important element of the scandal that was proven long before Mueller drafted his final report: Trump and his lieutenants interacted with Russia while Putin was attacking the 2016 election and provided encouraging signals to the Kremlin as it sought to subvert American democracy. They aided and abetted Moscow’s attempt to cover up its assault on the United States (which aimed to help Trump win the White House). And they lied about all this.

And, yes, there were instances of collusion—not on the specifics of the attack, but secret scheming between Trumpworld and Russia.

None of the evidence underlying this is in dispute. No matter what Mueller report contains, a harsh verdict remains: Trump and his gang betrayed the United States in the greatest scandal in American history
.


David Corn lays it out in detail in the rest of the article.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...


I don't know, but something smells.

Why did Trump, Sessions, Kushner, Junior, Cohen, Manafort, Flynn and dozens of Trump campaign people lie repeatedly about their scores of contacts with Russians if they didn't do anything wrong?

Giant pieces of the puzzle unaccounted for.


On a legal front, I don’t have a problem if Mueller couldn’t make a good faith conspiracy indictment, given the elements he’d have to secure. He could find it likely they did and everything consistent with it, but without the actual quid pro quo agreement in evidence, he would have to decline prosecution. I would like to see the evidence, which would be relevant under the indictments of the Russians, meaning he could discuss that element in relationship to how the Russians conspired, and that trump was either a witting or unwitting accomplice of sorts, even without the proof of the actual deal.

OTOH, I think the fact that Barr concedes a different level to obstruction, indicating Mueller didn’t exonerate, that likely means Mueller didn’t decline to prosecute so much as he left that to the AG’s discretion, meaning he would think there’s a case.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...


This is getting into a tricky area, and I don't want to embarrass Democrats any further, but Republicans, those with a law background particularly, view the Executive Branch differently than most. They believe in a very strong presidency, the Imperial Presidency, which gives the President more powers than granted by the constitution.

Now if this is one's basis, and I bet most all appointments in the legal arena by Republicans, including the head of the FBI and the Attorney General, conform with this philosophy, as it is clear, does Barr. As such, it stands to reason that Rosenstein would also have such a philosophy, as well as Muller. This does not mean they are prejudiced towards Trump, but that they could be philosophically prejudiced towards the presidency, which really amounts to the same thing in this case.

If I am correct, it would be natural of Rosenstein to agree with a finding that protects the president.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...


I don't know, but something smells.

Why did Trump, Sessions, Kushner, Junior, Cohen, Manafort, Flynn and dozens of Trump campaign people lie repeatedly about their scores of contacts with Russians if they didn't do anything wrong?

Giant pieces of the puzzle unaccounted for.


On a legal front, I don’t have a problem if Mueller couldn’t make a good faith conspiracy indictment, given the elements he’d have to secure. He could find it likely they did and everything consistent with it, but without the actual quid pro quo agreement in evidence, he would have to decline prosecution. I would like to see the evidence, which would be relevant under the indictments of the Russians, meaning he could discuss that element in relationship to how the Russians conspired, and that trump was either a witting or unwitting accomplice of sorts, even without the proof of the actual deal.

OTOH, I think the fact that Barr concedes a different level to obstruction, indicating Mueller didn’t exonerate, that likely means Mueller didn’t decline to prosecute so much as he left that to the AG’s discretion, meaning he would think there’s a case.


Your point is well taken but I have to wonder why Muller would leave this to Barr knowing full well Barr's opinion of obstruction as it pertains to this case.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Republicans are celebrating because the President's actions are indistinguishable from someone who did conspire with Russia ... but he didn't.

That's a strange thing to be proud about.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Republicans are celebrating because the President's actions are indistinguishable from someone who did conspire with Russia ... but he didn't.

That's a strange thing to be proud about.


Republicans don't seem to care that the Trump team secretly met with the Russians, now our greatest enemy again, to work on some issues that would satisfy both sides needs, aka, collusion, so long as it is not criminal.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Conspiracy theory prediction: somewhere down the road, we will learn that Rosenstein was not impartial in this either...


I don't know, but something smells.

Why did Trump, Sessions, Kushner, Junior, Cohen, Manafort, Flynn and dozens of Trump campaign people lie repeatedly about their scores of contacts with Russians if they didn't do anything wrong?

Giant pieces of the puzzle unaccounted for.


On a legal front, I don’t have a problem if Mueller couldn’t make a good faith conspiracy indictment, given the elements he’d have to secure. He could find it likely they did and everything consistent with it, but without the actual quid pro quo agreement in evidence, he would have to decline prosecution. I would like to see the evidence, which would be relevant under the indictments of the Russians, meaning he could discuss that element in relationship to how the Russians conspired, and that trump was either a witting or unwitting accomplice of sorts, even without the proof of the actual deal.

OTOH, I think the fact that Barr concedes a different level to obstruction, indicating Mueller didn’t exonerate, that likely means Mueller didn’t decline to prosecute so much as he left that to the AG’s discretion, meaning he would think there’s a case.


Your point is well taken but I have to wonder why Muller would leave this to Barr knowing full well Barr's opinion of obstruction as it pertains to this case.


It could be as simple as he wasn’t going to indict a sitting president either way and simply was conclusive that there was no proof beyond reasonable doubt in any case on conspiracy as a finding, but that the elements existed for obstruction.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Think about it this way: if Mueller gave his evidence and said he didn’t think there was a case beyond reasonable doubt on conspiracy, but that there possibly was on obstruction, but that he left it to the AG to decide on both, that would be consistent with Barr’s summary, with Barr placing emphasis in a way to make it seem like mueller declined one and hung on the other.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Pete Williams saying per letter that Mueller report lays out evidence on both sides but comes to no conclusions. The report neither clears him nor concludes he was guilty.

What a crock.


William Barr.. there to keep Russia USSA relations from going to Nuclear War

Does it say his children were just too stupid to know they were colluding with Russians also?
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject:

No matter what the report says, I saw Trump collude and obstruct with my own eyes and ears. That it didn't rise to a level of criminality that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court isn't relevant to my belief. I will not be gaslighted by privileged white men protecting other privileged white men in a system built to protect privileged white men.

And now that most of my faith in our Democratic systems has been shredded, I won't be expecting Congress to do anything consequential enough to fix this mess we call American Democracy in the short term. Let them hold hearings, I support that. But I think as citizens we have to focus on what we can do and that boils down to what we did at the mid-terms. Vote, volunteer, encourage other people to volunteer, and support candidates who will help fix the system.

I now apologize to all the other cynics in this thread who came to this conclusion 2 years ago. You were right. You know who you are.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
“The Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’


To conclude with him having committed a crime would require an "Indictment" which is not possible to do so it is impossible for that report to "Conclude" stating the President committed a crime?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject:

I wonder if Muller actually used the word collusion in his report. It is not a legal term but since the term has been bandied about by so many, especially the leader of the Republican Party, Muller could have used it.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
No matter what the report says, I saw Trump collude and obstruct with my own eyes and ears. If that didn't rise to a level of criminality that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court isn't relevant to my belief. I will not be gaslighted by privileged white men protecting other privileged white men in a system built to protect privileged white men.

And now that most of my faith in our Democratic systems has been shredded, I won't be expecting Congress to do anything consequential enough to fix this mess we call American Democracy in the short term. Let them hold hearings, I support that. But I think as citizens we have to focus on what we can do and that boils down to what we did at the mid-terms. Vote, volunteer, encourage other people to volunteer, and support candidates who will help fix the system.


Dems should have an open hearing with Mueller. Just so the American people can reconcile the conspiracy and obstruction we've seen with our own eyes and the report's conclusion. The Trump Tower meeting happened. Multiple people from the campaign did work with Russia. Trump said himself he fired Comey over Russia and then bragged to Russia's ambassador about it IN the Oval Office. Trump stood on stage and asked Russia to hack Hillary. And Russia did it.

So in a public hearing we should ask Mueller why those events weren't enough. And what did Mueller's investigation entail in regards to those events?
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
No matter what the report says, I saw Trump collude and obstruct with my own eyes and ears. If that didn't rise to a level of criminality that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court isn't relevant to my belief. I will not be gaslighted by privileged white men protecting other privileged white men in a system built to protect privileged white men.

And now that most of my faith in our Democratic systems has been shredded, I won't be expecting Congress to do anything consequential enough to fix this mess we call American Democracy in the short term. Let them hold hearings, I support that. But I think as citizens we have to focus on what we can do and that boils down to what we did at the mid-terms. Vote, volunteer, encourage other people to volunteer, and support candidates who will help fix the system.

I now apologize to all the other cynics in this thread who came to this conclusion 2 years ago. You were right. You know who you are.


We must also realize that Hillary was not indicted because it was believed that her charges could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court. I know, not what you wanted to hear.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
No matter what the report says, I saw Trump collude and obstruct with my own eyes and ears. If that didn't rise to a level of criminality that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court isn't relevant to my belief. I will not be gaslighted by privileged white men protecting other privileged white men in a system built to protect privileged white men.

And now that most of my faith in our Democratic systems has been shredded, I won't be expecting Congress to do anything consequential enough to fix this mess we call American Democracy in the short term. Let them hold hearings, I support that. But I think as citizens we have to focus on what we can do and that boils down to what we did at the mid-terms. Vote, volunteer, encourage other people to volunteer, and support candidates who will help fix the system.

I now apologize to all the other cynics in this thread who came to this conclusion 2 years ago. You were right. You know who you are.


We must also realize that Hillary was not indicted because it was believed that her charges could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court. I know, not what you wanted to hear.


Except Hillary wasn't a criminal and Trump is.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=619

On Wednesday, Committee Will Hold Open Interview with Felix Sater

On Thursday, Committee Will Hold Hearing – “Putin’s Playbook: The Kremlin’s Use of Oligarchs, Money and Intelligence in 2016 and Beyond”



the ONLY country in history to have been attacked by a foreign nation and

Not do ANYTHING to the Manchurian Candidate or the country that attacked us

Iranians can see this as God's revenge for Operation AJAX ..
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Quote:
Laura Jarrett AT LauraAJarrett

Context as you read: am told Special Counsel Robert Mueller was not consulted on this letter. This was the product of the Attorney General Bill Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, per DOJ official.



Rosenstein looks like a stooge to me.. pencil pushing Yes Man..

President talks (bleep) about dudes wife and he doesn't give a (bleep)


Golan Heights
Jerusalem

Can't tarnish that guy
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