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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: |
Local Militia has been stalking immigrants on our border
They captured many and we're holding them with guns drawn in their faces | Quote: |
[b]United Constitutional Patriots.
[/b
“I was horrified. I was outraged to see young children being held apparently at gunpoint in the dead of night in a remote part of the desert by people who have unknow
motives,” said Peter Simonson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of New Mexico.
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/18/new-mexico-migrants-armed-militia-detained
Videos appear to show armed militia detaining migrants at US-Mexico border
The American Civil Liberties Union is calling the actions a ‘kidnapping’ and a flagrant violation of the law |
Thank you for the assist
I read they rounded up 200 people
If that isn't kidnapping
Organized Crime
et al
I don't know what is
One headline said the leader is an ex con who talks with trump often |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Impeaching Trump may be one of the ugliest things we have ever seen*
Temper Tantrums from a 70 year old man
Vindictiveness that is off the charts
He really is like an evil character from Marvel
*I think some politicians are afraid to formalize it because they know
They have skeletons in their closet that he will find
But they are also afraid for the country and what he and his minions will do until the impeachment is final..
To see how long Trump has been in office makes me think conspiracy bs is more real than anyone imagines.
We watched Mueller indict many people around Trump
except family
We read and hear his families ignorant statements from their own mouths
Then Mueller completes an incredible amount of man hours on a case..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Whitaker
In walks this chump for who knows what reason and with no oversight
Then walks in Barr.. the famous fixer
 That everyone who is a career politician KNEW WHY he was there
It is just not making sense that he would even be allowed there
US Politics needs 10000000000000x better checks and balances ASAP
This is juvenile bs spit in our faces every day and no stopping it |
As a reminder, what appears to be collusion with Daddy Don and his Family Gang, is very difficult to prove as criminal conspiracy. The bar is high--such as proving that party A was giving this to party B for that, and for no other reason--on that charge. So you can forget about that as a criminal charge, and as difficult as it will be to impeach and convict Daddy Don, I suspect that it will be even more difficult to impeach his Family Gang--though we still have much to learn.
As for obstruction, since Daddy Don can't be prosecuted as a sitting president--which is simply a horrible policy--then the other avenue is impeachment. A good case has been made for Daddy Don, but I would like to hear from Mueller first and for the Democrats to see the unredacted report as well as the associated evidence. Also, the public's view as a whole should be considered. If the public is negative 10 - 20 points, with a failed conviction on impeachment, we could have four more years of Daddy Don. This is unacceptable and nothing should be undertaken to improve Daddy Don's chances.
Some are saying that it is a duty to impeach, as this will have an effect on posterity, but I wonder if a failed conviction wouldn't have a similar effect, or even worse.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Christopher AOC wrote: |
DaMuleRules loves to harp on Democratic Party unity, and coming together to defeat Trump. Then he goes on to smear and malign Bernie Sanders and Sanders supporters every chance he gets. That's fine, do what you want to do. But in the future, please don't whine when a leftist posts critically about Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, etc. |
For someone who claims to want accuracy and fairness, you sure don't practice what you preach.
First of all, Bernie isn't truly a Democrat. He gloms on to the party when it suits him for his own personal gain. In so doing, he claims to want to be a productive participant and not malign his fellow Dems, but then appoints a known aggressor towards the Dems to his team. You claim you don't like smear tactics, but you ignore this very thing.
Secondly, I do not smear and malign Bernie supporters. There was a time when I was a firm Bernie supporter, and I will most certainly support his candidacy should he win the nomination. But after watching him the last couple of years, my opinion of him has decided a great deal. And it's a very specific group of Bernie supporters that I am vocally against, because they are Bernie only people, which is quite dangerous - as the article I linked to indicates. I am against anyone who willfully engages in words and actions which put the country at risk by potentially perpetuating the disaster that is the Trump Presidency. And I will do that regardless of who that person is or who they support because that is the right and decent thing to do in times like this.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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And everything you built that’s all for show
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In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I think that 12 months of intense investigation into election meddling from abroad(Israel/UAE/Russia/NRA/others) through the Mueller Report AND from within in the form of voter suppression and ballot stuffing is the first thing that needs to be done....
Let's get these investigations started and on TV for all to see and worry about where it leads later s the election draws near |
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent.
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
Then make the case to the public. Make the public see that we have a corrupt POTUS and corrupt republican senate. If the POTUS did impeachable offenses, it's the duty of legislative branch to check him |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
4. Failed to enact sanctions for said offenses
5. Weakened the Election Cyber Security Administration by not allowing new procedures to detect faster
Paint the picture he is A Russian Agent opening up holes in our government to their benefit
5 times secret meetings with Putin.. Why?
Obvious Manafort was a Russian Agent and he ran the whole campaign |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Mitch McConnell
Just helped drop sanctions on Russia oligarchs and they invested 200 million into a Kentucky aluminum plant
Goes on and on
That first meeting where he gave away top secret intelligence
Laughing it up with Russians in the White House
No red alarm there folks |
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The Lebrons
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Posts: 4778
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
Republicans have essentially already created that precedent by refusing to hold the President accountable (otherwise this wouldn't be an argument). Let's make it official. Let each Republican go on record, for history to show, voting this conduct by a President is acceptable. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
Republicans have essentially already created that precedent by refusing to hold the President accountable (otherwise this wouldn't be an argument). Let's make it official. Let each Republican go on record, for history to show, voting this conduct by a President is acceptable. |
That's the problem. When they don't convict, every President that does something less agregious in the future has an established Precedent to point to as his defense. Back in 2019, President Trump was Impeached for doing these things which are far worse than what I've been accused of. If he wasn't convicted, then the precedent has been set, then neither can I be convicted.
In the end, it's all pretty moot. Nancy Pelosi has been clear that she has no interest in Impeaching Trump, at least not prior to 2020. She's not someone that get's bullied, so if she says No Impeachment, then there's not going to be an impeachment. That renders the remainder of the discussion as nothing more than
political theater.
Pelosi's stated agenda:
| Quote: | | Everything in our agenda: lowering health-care costs by lowering the cost of prescription drugs, building infrastructure, bigger paychecks. And then guns, dreamers, Equality Act and equal pay. |
Pelosi on Impeachment:
| Quote: | | I’m not for impeachment. This is news. I’m going to give you some news right now because I haven’t said this to any press person before. But since you asked, and I’ve been thinking about this: Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it. |
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
Exactly. Donald Trump, his idiot followers, Mitch McConnell and the complicit Republican party have ripped the country, the Constitution, our Democracy and most of it's norms and institutions apart. It's time for the Democrats to fix it and put it back together. Just like we always do after Republicans have made mess of things. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
I think it would be more like the OJ verdict. Most of the country would know Trump should have been convicted in the Senate and they would be mad at the jurors (GOP Senators) for letting him off. If there ever is a next time, there would be a mostly different jury (different group of Senators, different mix of R's & D's). I know Trump will proclaim his innocence, but he's already done that every day for 2 years.
(no offense to people who thought OJ was innocent - but seriously he was as guilty AF just like Trump) |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: |
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it. |
I keep seeing this said, but I disagree. There are plenty of ways to demonstrate that Trump's behavior is unacceptable and impeachment is far from the only thing that will.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
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Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
Agreed. It's better to hammer home the message of the obvious corruption with Trump and in the GOP. Vote him out and then prosecute him on every and any offense possible when he is not a sitting President.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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nickuku
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Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | Warren changed my mind on impeachment. He still won't get convicted in the Senate, but objectively these are impeachable offenses and the evidence is clear. Every member of Congress needs to be forced to vote and go on the record.
I think Warren did a great job summarizing why in 3 bullet points:
- Russian conducted a cyberattack on our election and democracy
- Trump and his campaign elicited and welcomed that help
- Trump then attempted to obstruct justice into the investigation into an attack on our country's democracy
By not bringing impeachment proceedings, we're letting this become precedent into what's acceptable for a President. Can't do it.
Bring the impeachment inquiry. Every member of Congress must go on record. |
Maybe. By attempting to convict an impeachment and failing, a clear cut verdict has been established. This, I would think would clearly be a more forceful precedent. |
Agreed. It's better to hammer home the message of the obvious corruption with Trump and in the GOP. Vote him out and then prosecute him on every and any offense possible when he is not a sitting President. |
100% Agreed.
This pos does not get to live the rest of his life out in peace. He has inflicted so much more pain upon people than any mass killer ever could.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
Oh yeah. I was still just a kid, but I remember that period well. My parents were very political (they had "Don't blame me, I voted for McGovern bumper stickers") and my Dad was a history teacher and a Headmaster at the school H.R. Haldeman's son attended. So the hearings were must see TV in our house.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
Oh yeah. I was still just a kid, but I remember that period well. My parents were very political (they had "Don't blame me, I voted for McGovern bumper stickers") and my Dad was a history teacher and a Headmaster at the school H.R. Haldeman's son attended. So the hearings were must see TV in our house. |
We watched them at school and discussed them in real time. I just think that the average Joe Blow doesn't read every newspaper article or watch cable news every night. You have to paint them a picture. Live testimony that the entire country is watching is very dramatic, very compelling and even the most jaded can be shocked by watching the president's lawyer recount in detail how the president ordered him to break the law. It's the difference between reading a script and watching a movie. I personally think the hearings would shift the country more toward wanting to get rid of Trump. I'm assuming that all Trump voters will keep being Trump voters. That will be true with or without hearings. These people are already motivated to vote for him again. I don't see how Impeachment creates more Trump voters. They can certainly be more intense, but they still only get to vote once. I'm assuming that no person who watches this type of hearing and who had been anti-Trump will all of the sudden become pro-Trump. But I do think there are Independents, undecideds, young voters, previous non-voters who would watch the hearings and be shocked and motivated to vote him out.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I remember how shocking, dramatic and compelling the Watergate hearings were even though Woodward and Bernstein had already written about it in the Washington Post. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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More evidence that truth matters and people didn't buy the spin:
Trump approval drops 3 points to 2019 low after release of Mueller report: Reuters/Ipsos poll
| Quote: | The number of Americans who approve of President Donald Trump dropped by 3 percentage points to the lowest level of the year following the release of a special counsel report detailing Russian interference in the last U.S. presidential election, according to an exclusive Reuters/Ipsos public opinion poll.
The poll, conducted Thursday afternoon to Friday morning, is the first national survey to measure the response from the American public after the U.S. Justice Department released Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 448-page report that recounted numerous occasions in which Trump may have interfered with the investigation.
According to the poll, 37 percent of adults in the United States approved of Trump’s performance in office, down from 40 percent in a similar poll conducted on April 15 and matching the lowest level of the year. That is also down from 43 percent in a poll conducted shortly after U.S. Attorney General William Barr circulated a summary of the report in March. |
So his approval numbers dropped 6 points (from 43 to 37) between Barr's initial bullcrap 4-page letter and the release of the actual Mueller report.
That is very good news. Not just because of the poll numbers themselves, but it means Americans are smarter than Trump counted on. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1119713321140269064?s=19
Here's a good thread on Barr being question by Klobuchar, during his confirmation hearing, where he agrees that if a President did exactly what Mueller says Trump did, it would be considered obstruction. Yet, he apparently came to a different conclusion after the report was released. Barr is compromised. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
Oh yeah. I was still just a kid, but I remember that period well. My parents were very political (they had "Don't blame me, I voted for McGovern bumper stickers") and my Dad was a history teacher and a Headmaster at the school H.R. Haldeman's son attended. So the hearings were must see TV in our house. |
We watched them at school and discussed them in real time. I just think that the average Joe Blow doesn't read every newspaper article or watch cable news every night. You have to paint them a picture. Live testimony that the entire country is watching is very dramatic, very compelling and even the most jaded can be shocked by watching the president's lawyer recount in detail how the president ordered him to break the law. It's the difference between reading a script and watching a movie. I personally think the hearings would shift the country more toward wanting to get rid of Trump. I'm assuming that all Trump voters will keep being Trump voters. That will be true with or without hearings. These people are already motivated to vote for him again. I don't see how Impeachment creates more Trump voters. They can certainly be more intense, but they still only get to vote once. I'm assuming that no person who watches this type of hearing and who had been anti-Trump will all of the sudden become pro-Trump. But I do think there are Independents, undecideds, young voters, previous non-voters who would watch the hearings and be shocked and motivated to vote him out.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I remember how shocking, dramatic and compelling the Watergate hearings were even though Woodward and Bernstein had already written about it in the Washington Post. |
It's important to remember the GOP stood by Nixon right up until the tapes came out. This version of the GOP would stand with him still.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
Oh yeah. I was still just a kid, but I remember that period well. My parents were very political (they had "Don't blame me, I voted for McGovern bumper stickers") and my Dad was a history teacher and a Headmaster at the school H.R. Haldeman's son attended. So the hearings were must see TV in our house. |
We watched them at school and discussed them in real time. I just think that the average Joe Blow doesn't read every newspaper article or watch cable news every night. You have to paint them a picture. Live testimony that the entire country is watching is very dramatic, very compelling and even the most jaded can be shocked by watching the president's lawyer recount in detail how the president ordered him to break the law. It's the difference between reading a script and watching a movie. I personally think the hearings would shift the country more toward wanting to get rid of Trump. I'm assuming that all Trump voters will keep being Trump voters. That will be true with or without hearings. These people are already motivated to vote for him again. I don't see how Impeachment creates more Trump voters. They can certainly be more intense, but they still only get to vote once. I'm assuming that no person who watches this type of hearing and who had been anti-Trump will all of the sudden become pro-Trump. But I do think there are Independents, undecideds, young voters, previous non-voters who would watch the hearings and be shocked and motivated to vote him out.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I remember how shocking, dramatic and compelling the Watergate hearings were even though Woodward and Bernstein had already written about it in the Washington Post. |
It's important to remember the GOP stood by Nixon right up until the tapes came out. This version of the GOP would stand with him still. |
Yes, a very different situation for sure in that regard. Also, this is a far different age in regards to how information is exchanged and consumed. That kind of televised impeachment hearing is no longer the only way to make the information known.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I keep hearing that impeachment tears apart the country.
No, the crimes warranting impeachment tear apart the county. |
The second sentence is certainly true. As for the first, impeachment won't tear the country apart. But an unsuccessful impeachment will dramatically increase the likelihood of a Trump selection and that will tear the nation apart.
Republicans will not impeach Trump and there are other ways to bring justice to Trump. I don't believe this country as we know it will survive a second term under Trump. There is far too much at stake to risk extending Trump's presidency by engaging in what will amount to nothing more than political theater. |
I certainly respect that opinion. And I honestly don't know which course will increase the odds of ridding us of Trump. To impeach or not to impeach. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't think either path is 100%.
But just out of curiosity, and I'm not sure you're quite old enough, but did you watch the Watergate Hearings or were you old enough to be aware of the politics at the time? |
Oh yeah. I was still just a kid, but I remember that period well. My parents were very political (they had "Don't blame me, I voted for McGovern bumper stickers") and my Dad was a history teacher and a Headmaster at the school H.R. Haldeman's son attended. So the hearings were must see TV in our house. |
We watched them at school and discussed them in real time. I just think that the average Joe Blow doesn't read every newspaper article or watch cable news every night. You have to paint them a picture. Live testimony that the entire country is watching is very dramatic, very compelling and even the most jaded can be shocked by watching the president's lawyer recount in detail how the president ordered him to break the law. It's the difference between reading a script and watching a movie. I personally think the hearings would shift the country more toward wanting to get rid of Trump. I'm assuming that all Trump voters will keep being Trump voters. That will be true with or without hearings. These people are already motivated to vote for him again. I don't see how Impeachment creates more Trump voters. They can certainly be more intense, but they still only get to vote once. I'm assuming that no person who watches this type of hearing and who had been anti-Trump will all of the sudden become pro-Trump. But I do think there are Independents, undecideds, young voters, previous non-voters who would watch the hearings and be shocked and motivated to vote him out.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I remember how shocking, dramatic and compelling the Watergate hearings were even though Woodward and Bernstein had already written about it in the Washington Post. |
It's important to remember the GOP stood by Nixon right up until the tapes came out. This version of the GOP would stand with him still. |
Yes, that's what I assumed in bold above. |
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