Lictman had some interesting points, on reminding us how the Democrats were cheated in 2000 and how, on in-party fighting for the party out of power, and especially on impeachment. He left the conversation with:
Republicans have no value, but have a spine and Democrats have values, but, and let's all say it together . . . they have no spine.
It was a great episode even though he had no "celebrities " as guests.
Love Bill Maher, I think people forget its a comedy show first, but there is a comedian for all types of people.
Come on. We all know that's not how Maher presents himself and that isn't even remotely accurate as to the show's intent. Yes, there is "comedy" involved, but there's an obviously desperate attempt at arrogant "intellectualism" that just amounts to nothing more than pretentiousness.
Quote:
I'm sure some of the peeps here that hate Maher just love them some Carrot Top, Carlos Mencia, and Howie Mandel.
Seriously? Nice try. But thanks for proving my point about the mindlessness of Maher's fans that lead them to parrotting his arrogant BS.
My god guy, I generally avoid responding to you anywhere on LG, as you come off as a pretentious know it all ( kind of like Maher ironically) but to call me Mindless?
Since the Lakers are in LA, it ever occur to you that some people on LG just might be employed in the industry?
Maybe I respect the production staff over at Real time (hard to believe, there is actually a whole team behind whichever celebrity you seem to hate- does that make them arrogant,bad people as well?) _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:29 am Post subject:
eddiejonze wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Allan Lichtman on Bill Maher:
Lictman had some interesting points, on reminding us how the Democrats were cheated in 2000 and how, on in-party fighting for the party out of power, and especially on impeachment. He left the conversation with:
Republicans have no value, but have a spine and Democrats have values, but, and let's all say it together . . . they have no spine.
It was a great episode even though he had no "celebrities " as guests.
Love Bill Maher, I think people forget its a comedy show first, but there is a comedian for all types of people.
Come on. We all know that's not how Maher presents himself and that isn't even remotely accurate as to the show's intent. Yes, there is "comedy" involved, but there's an obviously desperate attempt at arrogant "intellectualism" that just amounts to nothing more than pretentiousness.
Quote:
I'm sure some of the peeps here that hate Maher just love them some Carrot Top, Carlos Mencia, and Howie Mandel.
Seriously? Nice try. But thanks for proving my point about the mindlessness of Maher's fans that lead them to parrotting his arrogant BS.
My god guy, I generally avoid responding to you anywhere on LG, as you come off as a pretentious know it all ( kind of like Maher ironically) but to call me Mindless?
Since the Lakers are in LA, it ever occur to you that some people on LG just might be employed in the industry?
Maybe I respect the production staff over at Real time (hard to believe, there is actually a whole team behind whichever celebrity you seem to hate- does that make them arrogant,bad people as well?)
The hate against Bill Maher actually sounds like one of his jokes. “I hate him and his arrogant mindless pretentiousness! Let me tune in again this week!”
Some of his episodes are hit and miss, just as he pointed out that some of his jokes still miss the mark, even after 500 shows! I don’t agree with everything Bill Maher or his guests say, but this weeks show provoked some interesting discussion and thoughts, which is the whole point of the show. It was a good episode.
The idea that bringing on a guest that you don’t agree with is bad because you are “giving them a platform” is poorly considered. It is valuable for people to hear opinions and perspectives that differ from their own.
My overarching issue with Bill is that we have a President banning trans people from the military. We have a President who brags about assaulting women with nearly 20 victims who have come forward.
And Bill goes out of his way to give a platform to someone blurring the line between social transitioning and medical transitioning. A person blaming feminism for a decrease in all types of sex. Why does he give people like this a platform? Because people on twitter said not nice things to Bill , after Bill said things on his show that offended them. Have some freaking perspective!
He gave her a platform because she insists that many academics are ignoring the science of youth transitioning -- not the concept of transitioning, but youth transitioning. I think that could be or is -- again, I'm not an expert -- a valuable point of view.
Conservatives hate science because it often doesn't agree with their predetermined point of view. I don't want liberals/progressives to imitate here, or with their blatant lying, or with their blatant hypocrisy, or with their cheating. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
When I hear people complain about identity politics I can't help but laugh.
If Trump gets elected again because Democrats don't know how to message to middle America or the independents who feel abandoned by Democrats -- I don't believe they are, but that is how many feel, and their sense of it and their votes count just as much as ours -- maybe your sorrow will drown your laughter.
Bannon said that if Democrats want to focus on identity politics, as they did in 2016, Trump will win. I really . . . really, really, really don't want him to be right.
There is a way to address issues that you don't always single out some group. The idea should be to provide equal opportunity and rights to all and the message must reflect that -- as Warren seems to be doing rather well. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52659 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:46 am Post subject:
^^^
Ribeye, I was just curious if you were going to explain why you agree with the statement that the Dems have no spine yet the GOP does.
I am sincerely interested in hearing where you believe the merit is in that comment. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52659 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:56 am Post subject:
eddiejonze wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Allan Lichtman on Bill Maher:
Lictman had some interesting points, on reminding us how the Democrats were cheated in 2000 and how, on in-party fighting for the party out of power, and especially on impeachment. He left the conversation with:
Republicans have no value, but have a spine and Democrats have values, but, and let's all say it together . . . they have no spine.
It was a great episode even though he had no "celebrities " as guests.
Love Bill Maher, I think people forget its a comedy show first, but there is a comedian for all types of people.
Come on. We all know that's not how Maher presents himself and that isn't even remotely accurate as to the show's intent. Yes, there is "comedy" involved, but there's an obviously desperate attempt at arrogant "intellectualism" that just amounts to nothing more than pretentiousness.
Quote:
I'm sure some of the peeps here that hate Maher just love them some Carrot Top, Carlos Mencia, and Howie Mandel.
Seriously? Nice try. But thanks for proving my point about the mindlessness of Maher's fans that lead them to parrotting his arrogant BS.
My god guy, I generally avoid responding to you anywhere on LG, as you come off as a pretentious know it all ( kind of like Maher ironically) but to call me Mindless?
Well, if we want to talk about irony and pretentiousness, let's talk about your comment that people who dislike Maher must be Carrot Top fans . . . that's a pretty mindless (and pretentious) statement.
Quote:
Since the Lakers are in LA, it ever occur to you that some people on LG just might be employed in the industry?
Maybe I respect the production staff over at Real time (hard to believe, there is actually a whole team behind whichever celebrity you seem to hate- does that make them arrogant,bad people as well?)
I'm in the industry as well, as is my wife - she in Production and myself in Post. So I totally get that there is a whole wide team of people behind a show who work hard and are decent people.
I'm not sure how one leaps to the conclusion that a dislike for Maher means a contempt for the crew and staff that makes the show. Hell, my wife and I have both worked on shows that aren't our cup of tea. There's a difference between a show's content and the people who are involved in the day to day work that get's it on the screen and the two have nothing to do with each other. Look, I despise the Celtics, that hardly means I think everyone on the training staff are douchebags. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52659 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:01 am Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
The hate against Bill Maher actually sounds like one of his jokes. “I hate him and his arrogant mindless pretentiousness! Let me tune in again this week!”
Some of his episodes are hit and miss, just as he pointed out that some of his jokes still miss the mark, even after 500 shows! I don’t agree with everything Bill Maher or his guests say, but this weeks show provoked some interesting discussion and thoughts, which is the whole point of the show. It was a good episode.
The idea that bringing on a guest that you don’t agree with is bad because you are “giving them a platform” is poorly considered. It is valuable for people to hear opinions and perspectives that differ from their own.
I agree 100%. And that's why I watch shows that do just that. As I have mentioned in this thread, there are shows like Klepper that do just that and very well. And they do so without the "look at me, I'm so clever and brilliant" smugness of Maher that detracts from the discussion by making it about himself and not the topic at hand. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52659 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:37 am Post subject:
^^^
Exactly why I bristle at the idea that the GOP has a spine and that Dems do not. I would like to see someone actually back up that comment.
Just look at the GOP leadership like Lindsay Graham. Prior to Nov. 2016 he and other GOP members slammed Donald Trump as being a danger to the nation. Now they praise Trump as an infallible and righteous man under unreasonable attack.
The GOP engages in voter suppression to try and hijack elections in order to silence the voices of minorities.
They routinely refuse to holder their members accountable for outrageous and immoral behavior.
The GOP epitomizes spinelessness.
I'm not even going to get started on this baseless assertion that the Dems have no spine, because everything that has occurred over the last few years proves otherwise. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29376 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:47 am Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
kikanga wrote:
When I hear people complain about identity politics I can't help but laugh.
If Trump gets elected again because Democrats don't know how to message to middle America or the independents who feel abandoned by Democrats -- I don't believe they are, but that is how many feel, and their sense of it and their votes count just as much as ours -- maybe your sorrow will drown your laughter.
Bannon said that if Democrats want to focus on identity politics, as they did in 2016, Trump will win. I really . . . really, really, really don't want him to be right.
There is a way to address issues that you don't always single out some group. The idea should be to provide equal opportunity and rights to all and the message must reflect that -- as Warren seems to be doing rather well.
That was exactly my point. Acknowledge the political capital Republicans gain by crying to their base about identity politics. But at the end of the day, realize, it is a disingenuous political tactic. Just like the wall. And the trans ban. And the muslim ban. And calling the Central Park 5 murderers. And saying women are lying about being sexually assaulted. Etc.
Notice "identity politics" wasn't complained about nearly as much until Trump got into office and started separating demographics for political, financial, and personal gain. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:52 am; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29376 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:49 am Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
kikanga wrote:
My overarching issue with Bill is that we have a President banning trans people from the military. We have a President who brags about assaulting women with nearly 20 victims who have come forward.
And Bill goes out of his way to give a platform to someone blurring the line between social transitioning and medical transitioning. A person blaming feminism for a decrease in all types of sex. Why does he give people like this a platform? Because people on twitter said not nice things to Bill , after Bill said things on his show that offended them. Have some freaking perspective!
He gave her a platform because she insists that many academics are ignoring the science of youth transitioning -- not the concept of transitioning, but youth transitioning. I think that could be or is -- again, I'm not an expert -- a valuable point of view.
Conservatives hate science because it often doesn't agree with their predetermined point of view. I don't want liberals/progressives to imitate here, or with their blatant lying, or with their blatant hypocrisy, or with their cheating.
Youth transitioning was the topic. But to be more precise. Dan Savage was talking about youth transitioning socially. And she blurred the line by bringing up the medical transitioning of the youth. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:57 am Post subject:
As a parent of a trans kid, I’m not an expert, even on what my own kid is experiencing, but I have spent a lot of time listening and learning and studying. And the research indicates that almost all trans people experience their first gender dysphoria very young (as my son did at age four). It also indicates that (as Soh asserted) the majority of kids who feel gender dysphoria do not end up transgender, with many of them being homosexual instead. Her concern is that while it is ok in a vacuum to acknowledge a child’s gender preference, social transitioning often leads to the pressure to move forward and medically transition, which can lead to ending up not being trans but now with the medical issues of having transitioned physically. So she espouses no medical transition as children and caution even with social transitioning that increases pressure. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Ribeye, I was just curious if you were going to explain why you agree with the statement that the Dems have no spine yet the GOP does.
I am sincerely interested in hearing where you believe the merit is in that comment.
After your previous, unnecessary, comment, I don't really have much to say to you, but I will attempt to defend my position this once for others to see.
*********
I’ll just ramble a bit here as this is far more complex and requiring of far more detail than I want to devote to it.
First of all, it is more of a relative term than absolute. As such, though some of it is real, much of it is perception. Also, much of it overlaps other characteristics, such as relentlessness and recklessness. Compared to Republicans, the Democrats will not always go the extra mile, and do not drive home their points as do Republicans. They don’t attack relentlessly. They don't have strong ways of stating their ideals. Republicans take a point and repeat ad nauseum so that everyone, everywhere has heard it. Democrats take a point and it too often dies with the news cycle. How many know what is going on in Oregon, or that a Republican strategist admitted that the census question was to deprive Democrat votes, or that North Carolina must have a new election because the Republican cheated, or that McConnell won’t honor his rule about appointing SCOTUS justices during the last year of an administration, or that the GDP or jobs trends only continue what Obama started, or that Democrats forced Franken out for about a 1 on the sexual harassment scale and the Republicans do nothing with Trump’s 10, that Missouri won’t have any abortion clinics and force doctors to unnecessarily molest their patients, that Trump has kinder words for Putin, Kim Jong-Il, the murderous Saudi’s, and the criminal (alleged) Netanyahoo, than for real Americans like Obama or Hillary or anyone who doesn’t bow to him, and how Trump constantly violates the constitution and emulates authoritarians, and that many of Trump’s appointees don’t even have to pass a real security check, that . . . I could go on and on and on and on and on.
But we still hear of Hillary’s emails (but nothing of the misuse under Bush and Trump) and we still hear of “Pocahontas”, and we still hear that all Democrats are socialists, who will destroy this country, and we still hear of anchor babies and that immigrants are criminals.
Democrats don’t defend their kind as do Republicans such as a lack of defense for Ilhan Omar or Angela Ortiz Casto.
I’m not an advocate of cheating or incivility, but when Trump lies, don’t sugar-coat it. If they believe he is a criminal, say it out loud and not behind doors.
Lastly, importantly, and the issue that provoked the comment regarding spine, the Democrats know that Trump should be impeached, but they choose strategy – which may or may not be the correct one – over principle, duty, and doing the right thing. I’m not saying this approach is right or wrong, but it doesn’t suggest courage. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29376 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:18 am Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
As a parent of a trans kid, I’m not an expert, even on what my own kid is experiencing, but I have spent a lot of time listening and learning and studying. And the research indicates that almost all trans people experience their first gender dysphoria very young (as my son did at age four). It also indicates that (as Soh asserted) the majority of kids who feel gender dysphoria do not end up transgender, with many of them being homosexual instead. Her concern is that while it is ok in a vacuum to acknowledge a child’s gender preference, social transitioning often leads to the pressure to move forward and medically transition, which can lead to ending up not being trans but now with the medical issues of having transitioned physically. So she espouses no medical transition as children and caution even with social transitioning that increases pressure.
I think drawing the line for youths at medically transitioning is the least worst decision. Some children will commit suicide if they can't transition in any way. Let them change their names, pronouns, clothing, hair, makeup, etc. That could help lower suicides. Even though Soh says suicide rates are overstated. There are still suicides. And that's unacceptable.
Tough to reverse medical procedures and hormones should be made available to all adults who desire them. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52659 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:43 am Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
^^^
Ribeye, I was just curious if you were going to explain why you agree with the statement that the Dems have no spine yet the GOP does.
I am sincerely interested in hearing where you believe the merit is in that comment.
After your previous, unnecessary, comment, I don't really have much to say to you, but I will attempt to defend my position this once for others to see.
My intent was to take issue with Lichtman's comments. I just stated that I don't think Lichtman's comment is born out of any honest observation about the political climate. Having gone back and re-read my post, my wording was horrible and it obviously came across as also indictment of you, which was not my intent and for that I apologize.
*********
Quote:
I’ll just ramble a bit here as this is far more complex and requiring of far more detail than I want to devote to it.
First of all, it is more of a relative term than absolute. As such, though some of it is real, much of it is perception. Also, much of it overlaps other characteristics, such as relentlessness and recklessness. Compared to Republicans, the Democrats will not always go the extra mile, and do not drive home their points as do Republicans. They don’t attack relentlessly. They don't have strong ways of stating their ideals. Republicans take a point and repeat ad nauseum so that everyone, everywhere has heard it. Democrats take a point and it too often dies with the news cycle. How many know what is going on in Oregon, or that a Republican strategist admitted that the census question was to deprive Democrat votes, or that North Carolina must have a new election because the Republican cheated, or that McConnell won’t honor his rule about appointing SCOTUS justices during the last year of an administration, or that the GDP or jobs trends only continue what Obama started, or that Democrats forced Franken out for about a 1 on the sexual harassment scale and the Republicans do nothing with Trump’s 10, that Missouri won’t have any abortion clinics and force doctors to unnecessarily molest their patients, that Trump has kinder words for Putin, Kim Jong-Il, the murderous Saudi’s, and the criminal (alleged) Netanyahoo, than for real Americans like Obama or Hillary or anyone who doesn’t bow to him, and how Trump constantly violates the constitution and emulates authoritarians, and that many of Trump’s appointees don’t even have to pass a real security check, that . . . I could go on and on and on and on and on.
But we still hear of Hillary’s emails (but nothing of the misuse under Bush and Trump) and we still hear of “Pocahontas”, and we still hear that all Democrats are socialists, who will destroy this country, and we still hear of anchor babies and that immigrants are criminals.
But none of that demonstrates anything along the lines of courage though. Repeating lies and attacks is not courageous, it's just aggressive and the two are very, very different. It gets back to my comment about the difference between being ballsy versus having a spine.
Quote:
Democrats don’t defend their kind as do Republicans such as a lack of defense for Ilhan Omar or Angela Ortiz Casto.
But that's just simply not accurate. Dems do defend their own. And more importantly they defend the rights of advancement of all people and despite all the attacks that you describe. That's the opposite of being spineless.
Now one can point to the AL Franken thing as an instance of not "defending their own:". And it certainly would have been politically advantageous to do what the GOP does which is just look the other way at the accusations. But doing so would have been an action that I would describe as spineless. I think it takes moral integrity to stand up and say that we condemn this behavior whomever is involved. That demonstrates having a spine. Making a sacrifice to support moral integrity.
Quote:
I’m not an advocate of cheating or incivility, but when Trump lies, don’t sugar-coat it. If they believe he is a criminal, say it out loud and not behind doors.
Lastly, importantly, and the issue that provoked the comment regarding spine, the Democrats know that Trump should be impeached, but they choose strategy – which may or may not be the correct one – over principle, duty, and doing the right thing. I’m not saying this approach is right or wrong, but it doesn’t suggest courage.
I don't think utilizing strategy and wisdom is spineless. Quite the opposite. Sometimes not doing the assertive thing that some people are demanding is honorable and demonstrates a conviction to the goal even if how one does so is unpopular with some - especially in the case of what would really be an empty "victory" of sorts.
So bottom line, if one wants to assert that the GOP is more aggressive and antagonistic than the Dems, then I am in complete agreement. But I take issue with Lichtman's implication that their approach is commendable, desirable and courageous. And in fact, I find the implication offensive, hence my strongly worded reply to it. Hope that offers some clarification. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Ribeye, I was just curious if you were going to explain why you agree with the statement that the Dems have no spine yet the GOP does.
I am sincerely interested in hearing where you believe the merit is in that comment.
After your previous, unnecessary, comment, I don't really have much to say to you, but I will attempt to defend my position this once for others to see.
My intent was to take issue with Lichtman's comments. I just stated that I don't think Lichtman's comment is born out of any honest observation about the political climate. Having gone back and re-read my post, my wording was horrible and it obviously came across as also indictment of you, which was not my intent and for that I apologize.
I appreciate your comments. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67742 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject:
Not going well for Buttigieg in the town hall. Tempers are flaring. Anger over the firing of Darryl Boykins among many other issues.
I heard something about body cameras I didn't know. There is technology when a shot is fired a body cam is automatically turned on.
So far this meeting is a shouting match. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
These CNN panels are always depressing. How anyone could vote for both Obama and Trump is truly mind-boggling, but that the last guy speaking, could vote for Obama -- thinking that immigrants, upon seeking asylum according to our own laws, are breaking the law -- does not give me much hope that the average voter knows what the frick is going on, or even worse, chooses to live in a bubble. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
These CNN panels are always depressing. How anyone could vote for both Obama and Trump is truly mind-boggling, but that the last guy speaking, could vote for Obama -- thinking that immigrants, upon seeking asylum according to our own laws, are breaking the law -- does not give me much hope that the average voter knows what the frick is going on, or even worse, chooses to live in a bubble.
As a Black man I was SMH, I was actually taken aback. I couldn't get pass him saying HE doesn't want them here. Just goes to show Black people can be prejudice too. People of all colors are entitled to their opinions. With his I wholeheartedly disagree.
We need border control. A wall isn't the way. The Great Wall Of China was a 200 year $65 billion dollar failure. It's a great tourist attraction. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Carroll continues, "I am astonished by what I'm about to write: I keep laughing. The next moment, still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, overcoat, he opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway -- or completely,I'm not certain -- inside me."
Is that a inference, a poke at The Donald? use you imagination. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Carroll continues, "I am astonished by what I'm about to write: I keep laughing. The next moment, still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, overcoat, he opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway -- or completely,I'm not certain -- inside me."
Is that a inference, a poke at The Donald? use you imagination.
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