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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ringfinger wrote:


Fwiw, you have people within your own party saying the same thing. If you still arent confused by what I said at least go read what they have to say.


There is no one in the Democratic Party who is saying the same thing as you. There is no way one could get elected if their command of the language, their ability to communicate, their willingness to substantiate views with examples, was so ineffective.


You may not speak the same language as our "friend" rf, but you're pretty effective at communicating the point.


Not really sure how to respond to these personal comments. Maybe it’s my cue to leave. But I never said anything about either of you in this discussion.


How is what I said "personal"? I was simply saying that ribeye did a good job of communicating his point after he jokingly said that I had a knack for communicating mine in regards to the analogies you were using.

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All I did was respond to one post that said the best strategy would be to push harder to the left and I, to my mistake, replied and urged them to reconsider that position (for the reasons I gave).


It wasn't the suggestion in regards to the strategy that caused pushback. It was the merit to your reasons that was questioned and when you made several comments in the form of opinion and purported then facts - "facts" that you either couldn't or wouldn't substantiate.

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I would like the mods to consider changing this thread to the Democratic Political Thread or Leftists Thread and allowing for a separate Centrist/Conservatives Thread or you can all it The Others Political Thread or even Alt-ish Right Thread if you want.


You and a few other conservatives who have participated here always try to sell this false narrative that your views aren't welcomed here and thus you don't want to particiapte. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know I speak for more than just myself when I say

What some of you guys want is the ability to post your positions here without rebuttal of a challenges to merits of what you post. Discussion doesn't work that way - nor should anyone who is sincerely interested in having a discussion based on merit think it should be that way.

The accurate way to describe what goes on is that conservatives come here to post, and then decide they can't participate because they are unwilling to have their posts challenged on their merit. That is a reflection on those people and not on the fairness or quality of the discourse from those in this thread.

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But give moderates, centrists, and conservatives a place that allows for more diverse thoughts and ideas on politics (kind of like when you made two DLo threads).


Again, it's clear that what you really want is a place to post your rhetoric with challenge from those who disagree with it. And while they may be a good idea when talking about the merits of ballplayers, it is not a good idea when come to matters of political policy that have actual real world consequences. What you request amounts to nothing more than a propaganda thread.

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It’s like a woke contest in here, and it is clearly a challenge to discuss different ideas without people getting emotional and personal.


People are going to get passionate about discussions about issues that have an actual impact on their quality of life and freedoms. If that is something you are unprepared for, that's something you need to wrestle with. But demanding that you be able to have a voice without having to defend the merit of the views expressed is not reasonable.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

When you come in here and spout off with obscure and enigmatic bits of vagueness and refuse to back up whatever it is you're trying to say with, that's up to you to find out, people lose their patience. I tried and tried and tried, and all I got was a run around, and a never-ending chase in circles.

It is really not that hard: If you make a point, back it up with substance.


See, you really are much more succinct and effective at this than I am.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:

I would just add that as anyone who reads even one page of this thread, this is not some echo chamber where a bunch of like minded people simply sit back and pat each other on the back in mutual agreement.

There is plenty of healthy debate here amongst even people who may be in overall agreement. And we apply the same expectations and standards in supporting opinions and statements of those who may fall close to us on the political spectrum as those that may be further apart.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject:

We welcome everyone to participate in this thread. But we hold everyone to the same standards. We ask that people try to back up their opinions and assertions with data, articles or agreed upon facts. We ask that people try to have an honest back and forth without moving the goal posts, deflecting, blaming, etc. We have a lot of Democrats/liberals/progressives who don't agree with one another in this thread. But they at least try to maintain a conversation wherein both parties make a legitimate attempt to understand the other's point of view whether they agree with it or not. We don't all agree with one single narrative on many issues. Many of us are split on impeachment, how best to go forward with healthcare, etc. Many of us support different candidates from left to middle.

Sadly, almost every right-leaning participant in the history of this thread can't/won't abide by these very basic guidelines for discussion. We typically get hit & run posting, opinion only posting, or accusatory posting (all you liberals just don't get it...).

So, no. We are not making a special thread for people who can't or won't meet the minimum standards for honest discussion.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.


I'm glad we have the House. Who knows what type of policy a Republican Congress would pass. I shudder at the thought. But that's not enough.

Up to this point, has Trump's impeachable actions been checked at all with our control of the House?

We have administration members like Hope Hicks and Kellyanne Conway laughing at the House's subpoenas. Not a good look. You can only wag your finger so much.


I agree with you. And with a republican senate, that is what impeachment is. With some foot stomping as well. As I have said before, I am for whatever gets them out of office as quickly as possible. As of now I don’t believe that’s impeachment because it won’t get them out and I haven’t seen the indications that it will move the electorate. Let’s see what Mueller’s testimony does.

I don't understand the argument that says impeachment is finger wagging and foot stomping but Pelosi's statement about Trump being racist isn't. Same goes for the subpoenas that the House aren't enforcing.
I also disagree with the assumption that impeachment hurts the Dems Presidential and Senate elections in 2020. Without impeachment you risk having a lower turnout within the Dem party.
I think that's why Warren and Kamala support impeachment proceedings.


LOL, that's funny. You point out that what they are doing now is finger waving, and that you want impeachment, and I point out that impeachment is just effectively MORE finger waving, and you reply by asking me if what they are doing now isn't finger waving? The difference is impeachment could have actual, quantifiable negatives (or positives, depending on context, and that's the argument about should we and when should we)

And get back to me when either Harris or Warren has run an effective nationwide campaign like Pelosi just did, precisely winning those house seats in red and purple districts because she chose NOT to go with impeachment as a rallying cry. And that is going to be in play in battleground states both for Senate races and the presidential one, and it's going to matter in the house again too.

Not impeaching is not going to drive down Democratic votes, and no one worth their salt is going to tell you they will. Trump still being in office in 2020 is not going to be fine to people in the Democratic party. The actual argument is that impeachment might educate non affiliated voters, but that's a somewhat tenuous one too.


So if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying Pelosi's statement calling Trump racist and not enforcing subpoenas has no quantifiable positives or negatives? I don't know what you're basing that on. And even if that were true, why issue the statement or subpoenas in the first place?

Also your assumption that not impeaching will have 0 effect on Democrat turnout is based on what?
This was written Oct 2018. A month before the blue wave.

Quote:
For Democrats, the first issue by far is health care, cited by 14 percent in response to the open-ended question. Civil rights/gender equality is second, followed by views of Trump.
...
The fierce divide over Trump could make it difficult to build bipartisan coalitions to pass legislation on any issue over the next two years. By more than 20 percentage points, 56-35 percent, voters say they want to elect a Congress that mostly stands up to Trump rather than one that mostly cooperates with him. There is a predictable partisan divide on that question, but notably independents by more than 4-1 prefer a Congress that stands up to the president, 69-16 percent.

...
An overwhelming 69 percent of Democrats say Trump should be impeached.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/10/25/poll-midterm-elections-donald-trump-democrats/1742432002/

I understand the polls for impeachment have changed since then. I'm just pointing out what energized the blue wave.

I don't think Warren or Harris support impeachment proceedings because they are ignorant. I think they are both informed on the topic. They just have different priorities than Pelosi. Pelosi needs to win purple districts. Presidential candidates and Senators need to win states.


I'm saying that most of what they have done thus far is of no significant electoral value one way or the other. Impeachment is a much larger step that, while it won't actually accomplish anything, does not poll well in reddish purple states and districts where the Dems need votes.

And again, while turnout was high in Dem districts, and Democrats are energized by Trump, they are going to be energized to vote against him if he's there in 2020. I have yet to meet a Democratic voter in person or online who says, "dammit, if they don't impeach him I'm staying home so he can win another term".

I'm not saying Warren and Kamala are ignorant. They are running a primary campaign where the voters they need to turn out are Democrats. So of course playing to that base helps. But it doesn't statewide in battleground states.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

When you come in here and spout off with obscure and enigmatic bits of vagueness and refuse to back up whatever it is you're trying to say with, that's up to you to find out, people lose their patience. I tried and tried and tried, and all I got was a run around, and a never-ending chase in circles.

It is really not that hard: If you make a point, back it up with substance.


See, you really are much more succinct and effective at this than I am.

That's only because I used up most of words yesterday trying to get blood from a stone.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject:

I think what voters want is to feel that their candidate is fighting for them and for what they believe. I think that's true on the right, the left and the middle. You want to see your candidate passionately, enthusiastically, unapologetically making their arguments with no hesitancy, no equivocation. You want to see them fighting the opposition, not caving to them or backing down.

So if impeachment is not on the table for all the reasons that we've discussed, WE STILL NEED TO SEE DEMOCRATS FIGHTING AND NOT CAVING TO THE BULLYING AND DEFLECTING TACTICS OF TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.

That means when they ignore subpoena's, don't sit around for months before deciding to take it to court or slap them with a fine. Get out and loudly make them pay a price.

If the Republicans were in this position, not only would they have already tried to impeach the President, they would have aggressively gone after the Attorney General and hauled half of the administration in front of 10 different committees by now. They would be throwing people in jail for ignoring subpoenas.

There is something short of impeachment that would demonstrate that sense that the Democrats are willing to bring a knife to a knife fight instead of tut tutting and passively allowing the administration to run out the clock on everything. Or if your strategy is to allow them to run out the clock, at least get 20 of your people in front of microphones everyday pounding away at the corruption and obstruction, and repeat, repeat, repeat -- just like Trump does. The Republicans are great at this. They take one point and get on 20 different TV shows and they all say the same thing until it drives the headline.

The reason Warren and Harris have resonated with so many voters is because both of them have shown that fighting instinct. I listen to them and there is not a doubt in my mind that they would go to war to fight for Democratic values and policies and metaphorically punch the Republicans in the mouth when called for.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject:

Amen. And in all honesty. I've accepted that fact that we won't impeach. I don't agree, but I've accepted it. Because if we were going to, we would've already.
Mueller isn't going to provide any new information. We're gambling that not impeaching will help us in 2020. And I'm genuinely hoping the gamble pays off outside of the House.
And the impeachment debate is a healthy debate to have. It's a debate discussing the strategy between turning out cities in purple states vs trying to win a higher % in less populated areas.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
I think what voters want is to feel that their candidate is fighting for them and for what they believe. I think that's true on the right, the left and the middle. You want to see your candidate passionately, enthusiastically, unapologetically making their arguments with no hesitancy, no equivocation. You want to see them fighting the opposition, not caving to them or backing down.

So if impeachment is not on the table for all the reasons that we've discussed, WE STILL NEED TO SEE DEMOCRATS FIGHTING AND NOT CAVING TO THE BULLYING AND DEFLECTING TACTICS OF TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.

That means when they ignore subpoena's, don't sit around for months before deciding to take it to court or slap them with a fine. Get out and loudly make them pay a price.

If the Republicans were in this position, not only would they have already tried to impeach the President, they would have aggressively gone after the Attorney General and hauled half of the administration in front of 10 different committees by now. They would be throwing people in jail for ignoring subpoenas.

There is something short of impeachment that would demonstrate that sense that the Democrats are willing to bring a knife to a knife fight instead of tut tutting and passively allowing the administration to run out the clock on everything. Or if your strategy is to allow them to run out the clock, at least get 20 of your people in front of microphones everyday pounding away at the corruption and obstruction, and repeat, repeat, repeat -- just like Trump does. The Republicans are great at this. They take one point and get on 20 different TV shows and they all say the same thing until it drives the headline.

The reason Warren and Harris have resonated with so many voters is because both of them have shown that fighting instinct. I listen to them and there is not a doubt in my mind that they would go to war to fight for Democratic values and policies and metaphorically punch the Republicans in the mouth when called for.


Agree completely. Both of them embody that sincere tenacity you speak of along with a definitive direction in regards to how they want to lead. That's extremely important in resonating with voters.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject:

We should all prepare ourselves for Trump winning in 2020. Of course I hope it doesn't happen. But it's a real possibility.

The silver lining is AOC 2024.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
We should all prepare ourselves for Trump winning in 2020. Of course I hope it doesn't happen. But it's a real possibility.

The silver lining is AOC 2024.


Just curious as to what inspired this incredibly optimistic post.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:03 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
We should all prepare ourselves for Trump winning in 2020. Of course I hope it doesn't happen. But it's a real possibility.

The silver lining is AOC 2024.


I've pondered that possibility, there's no way I can prepare for it. Been here a lota years and never have I been this nervous about an election.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We should all prepare ourselves for Trump winning in 2020. Of course I hope it doesn't happen. But it's a real possibility.

The silver lining is AOC 2024.


Just curious as to what inspired this incredibly optimistic post.


When AOC referenced the images of herself being violently raped (shared in that facebook group) to the DHS chief. And she didn't cry or yell. She maintained her composure. That's what I saw right before I posted that. Oh and I finally saw some video of that Trump rally in North Carolina. That inspired the pessimistic Trump winning part.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:27 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We should all prepare ourselves for Trump winning in 2020. Of course I hope it doesn't happen. But it's a real possibility.

The silver lining is AOC 2024.


Just curious as to what inspired this incredibly optimistic post.


When AOC referenced the images of herself being violently raped (shared in that facebook group) to the DHS chief. And she didn't cry or yell. She maintained her composure. That's what I saw right before I posted that. Oh and I finally saw some video of that Trump rally in North Carolina. That inspired the pessimistic Trump winning part.


That was something. She was quite eloquent and focused, as usual, painting a picture that is sickening. That, there are some 30% of the population, or more, who probably watched the same thing and felt no empathy toward her in being attacked so, and only felt support for the thugs perpetrating the hatred.

(Oh, but let's not mention this, or want to correct this, since acknowledging it and wanting to correct it (overzealous progressivism), is the real problem here.)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:48 am    Post subject:

Someone posted this on my Facebook feed and I thought it was pretty good, even though I’m not 100% on everything he says, I thought I’d post it here:

I've always been a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does.

Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. Period.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable and accessible to everyone. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I'm not opposed to deporting people who are here illegally, but I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is sensible policies, including background checks, that just MIGHT save one person’s, perhaps a toddler’s, life by the hand of someone who should not have a gun. (Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine).

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Someone posted this on my Facebook feed and I thought it was pretty good, even though I’m not 100% on everything he says, I thought I’d post it here:

I've always been a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does.

Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines: . . .


Excellent breakdown with a very practical and reasonable explanation.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

(Oh, but let's not mention this, or want to correct this, since acknowledging it and wanting to correct it (overzealous progressivism), is the real problem here.)


Right? We should just sit back and accept vile behavior because otherwise we wouldn't want to upset people's precious sensibilities. We should just focus on the good in people . . . on both sides . . . both sides . . .

OH WAIT! . . . That's B.S.!

Ignoring Donald Trump’s Racism Will Not Make It Go Away
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Someone posted this on my Facebook feed and I thought it was pretty good, even though I’m not 100% on everything he says, I thought I’d post it here:

I've always been a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does.

Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines: . . .


Excellent breakdown with a very practical and reasonable explanation.


Yes, I agree with all but #14 (PC-ness), where I agree in large part, but not in totality. I agree that if someone wants to be addressed as x, I should not address them as y -- well unless someone is a Trump who has no regard for anyone who doesn't fill his pockets, kiss his arse, or tell him how wonderful he is. I also don't think comedians should be condemned if they target someone or some group in humor. Humor is good.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Someone posted this on my Facebook feed and I thought it was pretty good, even though I’m not 100% on everything he says, I thought I’d post it here:

I've always been a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does.

Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines: . . .


Excellent breakdown with a very practical and reasonable explanation.


Yes, I agree with all but #14 (PC-ness), where I agree in large part, but not in totality. I agree that if someone wants to be addressed as x, I should not address them as y -- well unless someone is a Trump who has no regard for anyone who doesn't fill his pockets, kiss his arse, or tell him how wonderful he is. I also don't think comedians should be condemned if they target someone or some group in humor. Humor is good.


Agreed, but I didn't interpret 14 as saying any differently.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

“If you believe the same things we believe, you are welcome.”

This quote seems to summarize Republicans about as well as any other eleven words, though one could tuck in "and look and act like us" before the comma, to make it more complete.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
“If you believe the same things we believe, you are welcome.”

This quote seems to summarize Republicans about as well as any other eleven words, though one could tuck in "and look and act like us" before the comma, to make it more complete.


More complete . . . more accurate . . . and more honest.

Because let's face it. No one is saying "love the country the way we love the country or leave it" to people like Bernie Sanders and others who have criticisms of how the country is being run.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

We all know the senate GOP most likely will defeat an impeachment attempt unless house Dems make such a convincing case and put such a pressure for the public to see.
what I don’t get is, even if the senate GOP choose to block the impeachment and the GOP base will use it as a ‘victory’... wouldn’t it be great for the Dems and American in general to have the case laid out to the public in a convincing matter, a year from election... how would the outcome of impeachment be a negative thing or would help trump re-elected? Unless the house Dems is unable to present such a case which they should be able to. It can only energize the independents (the GOP base and Dems base are already charged up)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:25 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
“If you believe the same things we believe, you are welcome.”

This quote seems to summarize Republicans about as well as any other eleven words, though one could tuck in "and look and act like us" before the comma, to make it more complete.


More complete . . . more accurate . . . and more honest.

Because let's face it. No one is saying "love the country the way we love the country or leave it" to people like Bernie Sanders and others who have criticisms of how the country is being run.


Never heard POTUS tell white liberals congressmen/women to go back to their country
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

A new Gallup poll showed that Bernie Sanders is the most favorably viewed contender for the Democratic presidential ticket.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/20/man-can-beat-trump-sanders-viewed-most-favorably-2020-democratic-candidates
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
We all know the senate GOP most likely will defeat an impeachment attempt unless house Dems make such a convincing case and put such a pressure for the public to see.
what I don’t get is, even if the senate GOP choose to block the impeachment and the GOP base will use it as a ‘victory’... wouldn’t it be great for the Dems and American in general to have the case laid out to the public in a convincing matter, a year from election... how would the outcome of impeachment be a negative thing or would help trump re-elected? Unless the house Dems is unable to present such a case which they should be able to. It can only energize the independents (the GOP base and Dems base are already charged up)


Yes. But then it is still a gamble. I would love to see it laid out, hear the damning testimony, in our living rooms day after day. I don't see how that could hurt. Now, on the other side of the coin, after all that, Trump and his flock in Congress, will say say, no collusion, no collusion; The Dems are wasting time instead of solving problems--which won't ever be solved with McConnell heading the Senate. Which will sway more? Who can really say with any authority.
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