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ribeye
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 Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | This might explain it better: ‘The new candidate of the young elite’: Buttigieg battles Biden and Bloomberg for the center lane.
| Quote: | Interviews with nearly a dozen Buttigieg backers in the investment community suggest the South Bend mayor’s mix of progressive stands on social issues [meaning: he's gay] and more moderate approaches to taxation, health care and the financial industry more broadly have kicked off a mini-movement among younger investor-types.
“I’ve always been more centrist in my views, socially liberal and more fiscally conservative,” said George Scott, a 48-year old investor and entrepreneur in Sunnyvale, Calif., who has donated $2,500 to Buttigieg so far. “I didn’t really like any of the candidates out there and I saw Pete on a morning talk show a few months back and he was just really smart, and articulate and sharp. He’s a veteran, from the Midwest. He really caught my attention.” |
Young, rich people love him and he's saturating the market with ads, in other words. |
If there is one thing that gets me every time, it is the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" trope. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. Liberalism is and cannot be separated from a fiscal policy.
What they really mean is socially libertarian. |
I think I mostly agree with this. (How's that for a committed statement.)
If, for instance, one says they are socially liberal, but against government spending to advance socially liberal polices that require spending, such as for the various safety nets, or some kind of medical system for all, then in these instances, they are, effectively, not socially liberal.
Now some socially liberal policies don't require much, if any, government spending, like rights issues (LGBT, disability, and voting rights) or personal freedom issues (drug use or prostitution) but these, particularly the personal freedom issues, do tend to fit the libertarian point of view.
There is a third leg to this stool, which involves individual and general rights that affect business, such as competing rights that involve religion and another right; or laws or rules that involve businesses paying more for accommodations, minimum wage increases, or paid this or paid that; or laws or regulations to protect general rights such as the environment, workers and consumers. Just how do the social liberal, fiscally conservative fit into this category?
In other words, generally speaking, simple labels usually don't mean much. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like Pete’s splitting up the centrist vote. Interesting stuff.
Not Pete specific, but the people in past Obama campaigns have said that the long election cycle reveals who you really are. If you try to put on an act, or chase polls, it will reveal itself sooner or later.
If Pete truly is the centrist he has pivoted to, he could win it all. Either way he has increased his national standing greatly.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | This might explain it better: ‘The new candidate of the young elite’: Buttigieg battles Biden and Bloomberg for the center lane.
| Quote: | Interviews with nearly a dozen Buttigieg backers in the investment community suggest the South Bend mayor’s mix of progressive stands on social issues [meaning: he's gay] and more moderate approaches to taxation, health care and the financial industry more broadly have kicked off a mini-movement among younger investor-types.
“I’ve always been more centrist in my views, socially liberal and more fiscally conservative,” said George Scott, a 48-year old investor and entrepreneur in Sunnyvale, Calif., who has donated $2,500 to Buttigieg so far. “I didn’t really like any of the candidates out there and I saw Pete on a morning talk show a few months back and he was just really smart, and articulate and sharp. He’s a veteran, from the Midwest. He really caught my attention.” |
Young, rich people love him and he's saturating the market with ads, in other words. |
If there is one thing that gets me every time, it is the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" trope. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. Liberalism is and cannot be separated from a fiscal policy.
What they really mean is socially libertarian. |
I think I mostly agree with this. (How's that for a committed statement.)
If, for instance, one says they are socially liberal, but against government spending to advance socially liberal polices that require spending, such as for the various safety nets, or some kind of medical system for all, then in these instances, they are, effectively, not socially liberal.
Now some socially liberal policies don't require much, if any, government spending, like rights issues (LGBT, disability, and voting rights) or personal freedom issues (drug use or prostitution) but these, particularly the personal freedom issues, do tend to fit the libertarian point of view.
There is a third leg to this stool, which involves individual and general rights that affect business, such as competing rights that involve religion and another right; or laws or rules that involve businesses paying more for accommodations, minimum wage increases, or paid this or paid that; or laws or regulations to protect general rights such as the environment, workers and consumers. Just how do the social liberal, fiscally conservative fit into this category?
In other words, generally speaking, simple labels usually don't mean much. |
Not well, because the construct is again all wrong. Liberals have gotten associated with socially libertarian positions, because a Venn diagram tends to cover both nicely, but it is impossible to hold actually liberal social positions and be fiscally conservative. What most conservatives that I come across who use this phrase actually mean is, "I don't want to be called a bigot"
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | What matters in Iowa is organization, and ads don't matter as much. His ground game is apparently strong. He is also a prolific campaigner. "Rich people love him" doesn't explain his latest surge in Iowa. Ordinary people seem to like him, too. |
You can say he's surging. I'd would argue that he's finally polling where he should be based on the money at his disposal. I believe he's had the most campaign offices in Iowa for some time, and those aren't free.
The amount of free advertising he receives from the media, regardless of where he's polling, is pretty extraordinary as well. He's probably undefeated in most glowing post-debate soliloquies, which more people watch than the actual debates apparently.
https://twitter.com/vanjones68/status/1184313148825899009?lang=en
The latest ep of The Circus was one ad for him from start to finish. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: |
You can say he's surging. I'd would argue that he's finally polling where he should be based on the money at his disposal. I believe he's had the most campaign offices in Iowa for some time, and those aren't free. |
Well, yes, that's what the ground game is. No it isn't free, but it seems like you argued that he's just putting a bunch of ads and that's why he's doing well. When you have money, you have to know how to use it effectively in Iowa, which involves a strong ground game and constant campaigning. He seems to have figured that out.
| Quote: | The amount of free advertising he receives from the media, regardless of where he's polling, is pretty extraordinary as well. He's probably undefeated in most glowing post-debate soliloquies, which more people watch than the actual debates apparently.
https://twitter.com/vanjones68/status/1184313148825899009?lang=en
The latest ep of The Circus was one ad for him from start to finish. |
I think you can say the same about most of the top candidates. Beto also got a bunch of free advertising, and it didn't help. So has Tulsi Gabbard. Everyone was talking about Harris for a few days after her duel with Biden. Hasn't helped much. The only candidate receiving constant, negative publicity is Biden. Warren has, for the most part, been portrayed positively by the press. Sanders' heart attack was a two day story (though I think it's hurting him in the polls).
It could be that Buttigieg has peaked too early, or he could ride it to victory in Iowa. We'll see.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really interested to see the next phase of Biden's campaign strategy. Say what you will about him, but he has some quality people, and they seem to have decided rope-a-dope is the right early choice. When and how he comes out of that is interesting.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: |
You can say he's surging. I'd would argue that he's finally polling where he should be based on the money at his disposal. I believe he's had the most campaign offices in Iowa for some time, and those aren't free. |
Well, yes, that's what the ground game is. No it isn't free, but it seems like you argued that he's just putting a bunch of ads and that's why he's doing well. When you have money, you have to know how to use it effectively in Iowa, which involves a strong ground game and constant campaigning. He seems to have figured that out.
| Quote: | The amount of free advertising he receives from the media, regardless of where he's polling, is pretty extraordinary as well. He's probably undefeated in most glowing post-debate soliloquies, which more people watch than the actual debates apparently.
https://twitter.com/vanjones68/status/1184313148825899009?lang=en
The latest ep of The Circus was one ad for him from start to finish. |
I think you can say the same about most of the top candidates. Beto also got a bunch of free advertising, and it didn't help. So has Tulsi Gabbard. Everyone was talking about Harris for a few days after her duel with Biden. Hasn't helped much. The only candidate receiving constant, negative publicity is Biden. Warren has, for the most part, been portrayed positively by the press. Sanders' heart attack was a two day story (though I think it's hurting him in the polls).
It could be that Buttigieg has peaked too early, or he could ride it to victory in Iowa. We'll see. |
You're right. I over specified on the ads (should have just said money which was the tenor of that article), but as far as sustained positive media exposure I think only Warren comes close to Pete, and that's even waned of late as the implications of her policies on corporate interests have settled in.
Beto and Kamala received their share of fawning coverage as well, but the problem there, IMO, was that they were running in the same lane as their better liked counterparts: Pete and Warren.
And Tulsi's the most smeared candidate I've ever seen. I remember being in a doctor's office with MSNBC on when the news of her campaign was announced, and they brought on Howard Dean to tear into her. She's definitely benefited from the Clinton kerfuffle, though
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32755
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | This might explain it better: ‘The new candidate of the young elite’: Buttigieg battles Biden and Bloomberg for the center lane.
| Quote: | Interviews with nearly a dozen Buttigieg backers in the investment community suggest the South Bend mayor’s mix of progressive stands on social issues [meaning: he's gay] and more moderate approaches to taxation, health care and the financial industry more broadly have kicked off a mini-movement among younger investor-types.
“I’ve always been more centrist in my views, socially liberal and more fiscally conservative,” said George Scott, a 48-year old investor and entrepreneur in Sunnyvale, Calif., who has donated $2,500 to Buttigieg so far. “I didn’t really like any of the candidates out there and I saw Pete on a morning talk show a few months back and he was just really smart, and articulate and sharp. He’s a veteran, from the Midwest. He really caught my attention.” |
Young, rich people love him and he's saturating the market with ads, in other words. |
If there is one thing that gets me every time, it is the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" trope. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. Liberalism is and cannot be separated from a fiscal policy.
What they really mean is socially libertarian. |
I think I mostly agree with this. (How's that for a committed statement.)
If, for instance, one says they are socially liberal, but against government spending to advance socially liberal polices that require spending, such as for the various safety nets, or some kind of medical system for all, then in these instances, they are, effectively, not socially liberal.
Now some socially liberal policies don't require much, if any, government spending, like rights issues (LGBT, disability, and voting rights) or personal freedom issues (drug use or prostitution) but these, particularly the personal freedom issues, do tend to fit the libertarian point of view.
There is a third leg to this stool, which involves individual and general rights that affect business, such as competing rights that involve religion and another right; or laws or rules that involve businesses paying more for accommodations, minimum wage increases, or paid this or paid that; or laws or regulations to protect general rights such as the environment, workers and consumers. Just how do the social liberal, fiscally conservative fit into this category?
In other words, generally speaking, simple labels usually don't mean much. |
Great, just what I wanted. To be classified into some arbitrary, (bleep) category.
Thanks everyone. Time for another sabbatical. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Happy Impeachment Hearings Eve! |
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paymonM
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-credits-ivanka-for-role-in-creating-14-million-jobs-via-worker-pledge-194213144.html
and she has a photo-op to prove it
Trump credits Ivanka for role in creating '14 million jobs' via worker pledge
President Donald Trump on Tuesday credited his daughter Ivanka for having “created 14 million jobs,” consistent with a vow to boost American private sector employment and training.
Trump spoke at the Economic Club of New York, in which he touted his administration’s stewardship of the economy. In remarks that promoted his initiatives, he told the audience that his eldest daughter — who serves as a key advisor and co-chairs the American Workforce Policy Advisory Board, has exceeded her initial goals.
The White House’s site touts more than 300 private sector employers who signed the Pledge for American Workers. They initially committed to creating over 12 million education and training opportunities over 5 years —which are pledges, but not fully materialized jobs. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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This is huge:
Washington Post: Supreme Court allows families of Sandy Hook shooting victims to sue gunmaker Remington
| Quote: | The Supreme Court on Tuesday turned down a request from the gun industry intended to block a lawsuit from families of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims.
The decision lets stand a groundbreaking ruling from the Connecticut Supreme Court that said the manufacturer of the Bushmaster AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle can be sued and potentially held liable for the 2012 massacre in Newtown, Conn.
The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review the ruling, without comment from any individual justice.
The lawsuit was brought by the estates of nine victims killed by Adam Lanza, who was armed with the high-powered rifle, made by Remington Arms Co., during his assault that left 28 dead, including 20 young children. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| paymonM wrote: | https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-credits-ivanka-for-role-in-creating-14-million-jobs-via-worker-pledge-194213144.html
and she has a photo-op to prove it
Trump credits Ivanka for role in creating '14 million jobs' via worker pledge
President Donald Trump on Tuesday credited his daughter Ivanka for having “created 14 million jobs,” consistent with a vow to boost American private sector employment and training.
Trump spoke at the Economic Club of New York, in which he touted his administration’s stewardship of the economy. In remarks that promoted his initiatives, he told the audience that his eldest daughter — who serves as a key advisor and co-chairs the American Workforce Policy Advisory Board, has exceeded her initial goals.
The White House’s site touts more than 300 private sector employers who signed the Pledge for American Workers. They initially committed to creating over 12 million education and training opportunities over 5 years —which are pledges, but not fully materialized jobs. |
Their entire family is comprised of grifters, liars and criminals. |
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Wilt
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Posts: 13731
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Happy Impeachment Hearings Eve! |
Meanwhile on Fox:
| Quote: | | SEAN HANNITY (HOST): It is impeachment eve. The circus is coming to town, and we are just now hours away from the corrupt, compromised, coward, and congenital liar Adam Schiff show on Capitol Hill. Brought to you by him and his fellow raging psychotic Democrats and their top allies in the media mob. First, though, this. This is important. Everything you're going to see in the next two weeks is rigged. This is a phony show trial. There is zero due process, none. It is yet another fraudulent hoax, conspiracy theory. It is another witch hunt. It is wrought with rampant, I mean rampant, putrid hypocrisy. A repulsive double standard. By the way, it's all bad for the country, but this is what your democratic socialist party has become, this is who they are, this is what defines them frankly perfectly. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Happy Impeachment Hearings Eve! |
Meanwhile on Fox:
| Quote: | | SEAN HANNITY (HOST): It is impeachment eve. The circus is coming to town, and we are just now hours away from the corrupt, compromised, coward, and congenital liar Adam Schiff show on Capitol Hill. Brought to you by him and his fellow raging psychotic Democrats and their top allies in the media mob. First, though, this. This is important. Everything you're going to see in the next two weeks is rigged. This is a phony show trial. There is zero due process, none. It is yet another fraudulent hoax, conspiracy theory. It is another witch hunt. It is wrought with rampant, I mean rampant, putrid hypocrisy. A repulsive double standard. By the way, it's all bad for the country, but this is what your democratic socialist party has become, this is who they are, this is what defines them frankly perfectly. |
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Paraphrasing myself:
Their entire party is comprised of grifters, liars and criminals. |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7253
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| paymonM wrote: | https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-credits-ivanka-for-role-in-creating-14-million-jobs-via-worker-pledge-194213144.html
and she has a photo-op to prove it
Trump credits Ivanka for role in creating '14 million jobs' via worker pledge
President Donald Trump on Tuesday credited his daughter Ivanka for having “created 14 million jobs,” consistent with a vow to boost American private sector employment and training.
Trump spoke at the Economic Club of New York, in which he touted his administration’s stewardship of the economy. In remarks that promoted his initiatives, he told the audience that his eldest daughter — who serves as a key advisor and co-chairs the American Workforce Policy Advisory Board, has exceeded her initial goals.
The White House’s site touts more than 300 private sector employers who signed the Pledge for American Workers. They initially committed to creating over 12 million education and training opportunities over 5 years —which are pledges, but not fully materialized jobs. |
All those jobs are in China tho, where all of the Trumps stuff is made.
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Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Y'all listening to this on PBS, Giuliani is about to go down... might be the scapegoat Trump needed |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:08 am Post subject: |
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BOOM!
Ambassador To Ukraine Mr. Taylor: the WH meeting for Ukranian president is becoming clear that it's contingent to investigation to Burisma |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:08 am Post subject: |
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The Republicans have already started disrupting the hearing with pointless questions. Gym Jordan even brought props.
This will get ugly.
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Y'all listening to this on PBS, Giuliani is about to go down... might be the scapegoat Trump needed |
And I'm sure he will accept that fate with the same silent, stoic dignity he has displayed in every situation in recent years.
(in other words, get ready for him to release a veritable buttload of emails between him and everyone else involved in this bleepshow while going on every news channel at least 3 times a day) |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Y'all listening to this on PBS, Giuliani is about to go down... might be the scapegoat Trump needed |
And I'm sure he will accept that fate with the same silent, stoic dignity he has displayed in every situation in recent years.
(in other words, get ready for him to release a veritable buttload of emails between him and everyone else involved in this bleepshow while going on every news channel at least 3 times a day) |
this is a dirty fight, GOP strategy is straight muddy the water but I do see Giuliani as a convinient fall guy, Trump might get away, all he has to say is Giuliani did it on his own |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
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The problem is that the "transcript" explicitly mentions Rudy.
But, you're right, they will muddy the waters, they will disrupt, they will keep talking about outing the whistleblower, etc. Nunes' opening statement was (bleep) crazy.
It took them less than a minute to interrupt Schiff with a question that they knew the answer to. And it was that hack Ratcliffe.
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Rudy can't put a hold on the money
Send someone other than our Vice President to congratulate the new Ukrainian President |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | The problem is that the "transcript" explicitly mentions Rudy.
But, you're right, they will muddy the waters, they will disrupt, they will keep talking about outing the whistleblower, etc. Nunes' opening statement was (bleep) crazy.
It took them less than a minute to interrupt Schiff with a question that they knew the answer to. And it was that hack Ratcliffe. |
My first reply to Gym Jordan would be "Shouldn't you be explaining why you let a school doctor molest kids?"
Unbelievable these people are "Representatives" representing the worst of humankind |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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How many smoking guns does it take to move even one Republican?
/rhetorical question
Because this hearing is one long series of smoking guns. And the case is only going to get more air tight as the hearings proceed.
And like Nancy Pelosi said with regard to Trump -- all roads lead to Russia. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:35 am Post subject: |
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^^Exactly what I was just thinking
All replies would be "Thank you for your question ..
"Can you tell us if anyone broke the law?"
Just to get them all on record being in acceptance of all of this (bleep) |
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