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kikanga
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 Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Didn't "the average America" vote for Hillary more than Trump? And help the Democrats take back the House in 2018?
If we're talking about the median political view. I'm still not sure how that shakes out. Considering Hillary beat Trump by millions of votes and 40% of the voting eligible didn't vote.
But I do believe the right has effectively pulled the Overton Window to it's side over time. I mean they've spent a decade trying to destroy Romney-care because a black President made it into law. |
Yes but Trump got enough votes to win the electoral college. Considering the level of hatred for Trump on here, I’m not sure how you can actually believe the average American hates him to that level yet he still wins the presidency. |
From day 54 of his presidency till now day 1050. His disapproval rating has been above 50%. His approval hasn't hit 45% through that time period either.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
So it appears the median is not a fan of his presidency (like us in this thread). |
I never disputed that. There are various levels of “not a fan of his presidency” and the level on here is higher than most of the country. You really can’t even admit that? Is this the only place you discuss politics? |
This thread is about political discussion. Filled with people who watch and study politics. 40% of the eligible population didn't even bother to vote in the last Presidential election. So its safe to say ANY place on the internet dedicated to political discussion isn't a true representation of the voting eligible population.
I mean for example, you've been a major contributor for the last 10 pages of this thread. But your perspective of being a conservative who doesn't support Trump is at maximum 10% of the Republican party (the smaller of the 2 parties). You're contributions to this thread, although appreciated, is not representational either.
I do discuss politics elsewhere. But I wouldn't use any of those places either to determine the "average" American.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Didn't "the average America" vote for Hillary more than Trump? And help the Democrats take back the House in 2018?
If we're talking about the median political view. I'm still not sure how that shakes out. Considering Hillary beat Trump by millions of votes and 40% of the voting eligible didn't vote.
But I do believe the right has effectively pulled the Overton Window to it's side over time. I mean they've spent a decade trying to destroy Romney-care because a black President made it into law. |
Yes but Trump got enough votes to win the electoral college. Considering the level of hatred for Trump on here, I’m not sure how you can actually believe the average American hates him to that level yet he still wins the presidency. |
From day 54 of his presidency till now day 1050. His disapproval rating has been above 50%. His approval hasn't hit 45% through that time period either.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
So it appears the median is not a fan of his presidency (like us in this thread). |
I never disputed that. There are various levels of “not a fan of his presidency” and the level on here is higher than most of the country. You really can’t even admit that? Is this the only place you discuss politics? |
This thread is about political discussion. Filled with people who watch and study politics. 40% of the eligible population didn't even bother to vote in the last Presidential election. So its safe to say ANY place on the internet dedicated to political discussion isn't a true representation of the voting eligible population.
I mean for example, you've been a major contributor for the last 10 pages of this thread. But your perspective of being a conservative who doesn't support Trump is at maximum 10% of the Republican party (the smaller of the 2 parties). You're contributions to this thread, although appreciated, is not representational either.
I do discuss politics elsewhere. But I wouldn't use any of those places either to determine the "average" American. |
I’m an independent not a Republican. According to a Gallup poll(I have no idea if that’s a a quality website just found it on google), America is comprised of 30% Republicans, 31% Democrats, and 38% independent. Do you think this thread consists of poster population that would closely resemble those proportions? |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Didn't "the average America" vote for Hillary more than Trump? And help the Democrats take back the House in 2018?
If we're talking about the median political view. I'm still not sure how that shakes out. Considering Hillary beat Trump by millions of votes and 40% of the voting eligible didn't vote.
But I do believe the right has effectively pulled the Overton Window to it's side over time. I mean they've spent a decade trying to destroy Romney-care because a black President made it into law. |
Yes but Trump got enough votes to win the electoral college. Considering the level of hatred for Trump on here, I’m not sure how you can actually believe the average American hates him to that level yet he still wins the presidency. |
From day 54 of his presidency till now day 1050. His disapproval rating has been above 50%. His approval hasn't hit 45% through that time period either.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
So it appears the median is not a fan of his presidency (like us in this thread). |
I never disputed that. There are various levels of “not a fan of his presidency” and the level on here is higher than most of the country. You really can’t even admit that? Is this the only place you discuss politics? |
This thread is about political discussion. Filled with people who watch and study politics. 40% of the eligible population didn't even bother to vote in the last Presidential election. So its safe to say ANY place on the internet dedicated to political discussion isn't a true representation of the voting eligible population.
I mean for example, you've been a major contributor for the last 10 pages of this thread. But your perspective of being a conservative who doesn't support Trump is at maximum 10% of the Republican party (the smaller of the 2 parties). You're contributions to this thread, although appreciated, is not representational either.
I do discuss politics elsewhere. But I wouldn't use any of those places either to determine the "average" American. |
I’m an independent not a Republican. According to a Gallup poll(I have no idea if that’s a a quality website just found it on google), America is comprised of 30% Republicans, 31% Democrats, and 38% independent. Do you think this thread consists of poster population that would closely resemble those proportions? |
There were no independent votes in the 2016 election. Unless you count the 1% green party candidate Jill Stein got. It'll be the same story in 2020 when the votes are cast. All but a tiny minority will be Democrat or Republican.
But to answer your question. I don't know of anywhere on the internet dedicated to political discussion that resembles the population you described.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Omar alluded to it in a previous post. A large amount of independents don't care enough about politics to vote. Let alone post in political forums.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Didn't "the average America" vote for Hillary more than Trump? And help the Democrats take back the House in 2018?
If we're talking about the median political view. I'm still not sure how that shakes out. Considering Hillary beat Trump by millions of votes and 40% of the voting eligible didn't vote.
But I do believe the right has effectively pulled the Overton Window to it's side over time. I mean they've spent a decade trying to destroy Romney-care because a black President made it into law. |
Yes but Trump got enough votes to win the electoral college. Considering the level of hatred for Trump on here, I’m not sure how you can actually believe the average American hates him to that level yet he still wins the presidency. |
From day 54 of his presidency till now day 1050. His disapproval rating has been above 50%. His approval hasn't hit 45% through that time period either.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
So it appears the median is not a fan of his presidency (like us in this thread). |
I never disputed that. There are various levels of “not a fan of his presidency” and the level on here is higher than most of the country. You really can’t even admit that? Is this the only place you discuss politics? |
This thread is about political discussion. Filled with people who watch and study politics. 40% of the eligible population didn't even bother to vote in the last Presidential election. So its safe to say ANY place on the internet dedicated to political discussion isn't a true representation of the voting eligible population.
I mean for example, you've been a major contributor for the last 10 pages of this thread. But your perspective of being a conservative who doesn't support Trump is at maximum 10% of the Republican party (the smaller of the 2 parties). You're contributions to this thread, although appreciated, is not representational either.
I do discuss politics elsewhere. But I wouldn't use any of those places either to determine the "average" American. |
I’m an independent not a Republican. According to a Gallup poll(I have no idea if that’s a a quality website just found it on google), America is comprised of 30% Republicans, 31% Democrats, and 38% independent. Do you think this thread consists of poster population that would closely resemble those proportions? |
There were no independent votes in the 2016 election. Unless you count the 1% green party candidate Jill Stein got. It'll be the same story in 2020 when the votes are cast. All but a tiny minority will be Democrat or Republican.
But to answer your question. I don't know of anywhere on the internet dedicated to political discussion that resembles the population you described. |
Neither do I. At this point, I’m trying to convince you of something I consider common sense. I’m honestly a bit shocked this thread isn’t more self aware. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. But I genuinely am. You really don’t realize just how out of touch you are with a typical American viewpoint. |
You make huge assumptions, which inevitably lead you to huge miscalculations. You have no idea what my extended family is composed of. It's a group that literally covers the political spectrum and has all the nuances in between. There are aging Republicans, a few die-hard Trumpsters of various ages, several that would shock even you as to their "lefty" mentality. More importantly, there is a large collection of "average Americans" - small town Midwesterners, evangelicals, blue collar workers, plenty of military both active and retired . . .
So I am well versed in the array of American viewpoints and where they "average" out. |
And you have no idea what my extended family is composed of. You proved nothing with your post other than the fact that you think you are right and I am wrong without anything to support it. Ironically, you’re the one making assumptions which are leading you to miscalculations. If this thread is actually a representation of the average American viewpoint, how do you figure Trump got elected? |
Electoral college, voter suppression, massive online propaganda advantage, pent up racism. But it was a bigger surprise than it should have been because a significant number of his supporters know its wrong and publicly claim to not be supporters (although they can’t help taking his side while they do it, thus revealing themselves to clever raccoons)
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Omar alluded to it in a previous post. A large amount of independents don't care enough about politics to vote. Let alone post in political forums. |
I’m not arguing that any political forum represents the perfect median opinion. I’m arguing this one leans left. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: |
Neither do I. At this point, I’m trying to convince you of something I consider common sense. I’m honestly a bit shocked this thread isn’t more self aware. |
Are you equally shocked by EVERY political forum on the internet? The key difference is being informed. It's like going into the Lounge and posting in every thread, "do you guys realize you aren't representational of the average American?" Sure, the area is dedicated to people informed about the Lakers who want to have a discussion. It's not meant to reflect the American population. And the key difference is a dedication to pursuing and talking about information in a certain area.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Every person in this thread follows politics. Not every American does.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Omar alluded to it in a previous post. A large amount of independents don't care enough about politics to vote. Let alone post in political forums. |
I’m not arguing that any political forum represents the perfect median opinion. I’m arguing this one leans left. |
And considering everyone agrees with that, perhaps chiding others on their awareness is another example of projection?
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Also, it’s important to remember that the percentages for GOP, Democrat, and independent are by self affirmation, and tend to flux with events (currently, a significant number of “independents” are made up of republicans and republican affiliated people who are either genuinely unhappy with their party or the aforementioned “imma vote for him but not admit it in polite company” types. Also, it turns out a majority of independents tend to affiliate with one party to a similar degree as many who claim the party. True independents are significantly smaller in number, and as mentioned previously, are almost entirely composed of non politically aware and active people. If you’re politically aware and interested, the chances of not falling on one side or the other are virtually nil.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Omar alluded to it in a previous post. A large amount of independents don't care enough about politics to vote. Let alone post in political forums. |
I’m not arguing that any political forum represents the perfect median opinion. I’m arguing this one leans left. |
And considering everyone agrees with that, perhaps chiding others on their awareness is another example of projection? |
You are the first person to say they agree with that. Read through the last few pages. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Omar alluded to it in a previous post. A large amount of independents don't care enough about politics to vote. Let alone post in political forums. |
I’m not arguing that any political forum represents the perfect median opinion. I’m arguing this one leans left. |
And considering everyone agrees with that, perhaps chiding others on their awareness is another example of projection? |
You are the first person to say they agree with that. Read through the last few pages. |
I have, have you? People have even tried to explain to you why that is.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Here is some more echo chamber data I’ve found over the last few years:
The more racially diverse a place is, the more likely to vote Democratic.
BEING something other than white, heterosexual, or male makes one more likely to vote democratic.
The denser the population, the more likely to vote democratic.
The possession of a passport makes one more likely to vote democratic.
Living more than fifty miles from the place of birth makes one more likely to vote democratic.
It would seem willingness to take in new experiences and share them with people unknown to and less like you does not in fact, make one vote republican. Quite the opposite.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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greenfrog
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | Here is some more echo chamber data I’ve found over the last few years:
The more racially diverse a place is, the more likely to vote Democratic.
BEING something other than white, heterosexual, or male makes one more likely to vote democratic.
The denser the population, the more likely to vote democratic.
The possession of a passport makes one more likely to vote democratic.
Living more than fifty miles from the place of birth makes one more likely to vote democratic.
It would seem willingness to take in new experiences and share them with people unknown to and less like you does not in fact, make one vote republican. Quite the opposite. |
Well, also....being more highly educated tends to make one more democratic as well.
There's (IMO) also some natural selection going on here. If one side has good arguments and the other has bad arguments, the bad arguments will be weeded out, and over time, the people with those bad arguments as well. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Ultimately I think this will come down to Bernie and Buttigieg. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
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How Every Senator Voted
Republicans
Rand Paul Ky.
N
Democrats
Doug Jones Ala.
Y
Joe Manchin III W.Va.
Y
Kyrsten Sinema Ariz.
Y
The vote for Bill Barr confirmation''''
People voted Yes to a man who had already written plenty of literature showing he was unfit to be Trump's AG
Was Rand Paul's no vote just for optics?
He made America far worse off and empowered Trump and all the (bleep) that comes with him.
Twice now he has been an imposter. Defrauding America's citizenry and the whole world with his lies and cover-ups
Now he.seems.to be loonier than Trump himself
These people must be removed at any cost |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: |
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That this forum is more liberal, to far more liberal, than the general population, and that the negative to extremely negative views herein of Trump (which is as much a decency issue as a political one) are more in alignment with vast majority of the world than are the Republicans', should be a given. However, to say that liberals' ideas, or those typically expressed herein, are out of the mainstream is not. Yes, there are some ideas, such as forced Medi-Care for all, redefining living in the US illegally as a civil rather than criminal violation or expansive immigration policies in general, or free four year public education for all, are not universally popular.
Evidence?
| Quote: | | Seventy percent or more [emphasis mine] of those surveyed, including majorities of Republicans, agreed with each of the following statements: |
| Quote: | College education is too expensive, and states should do more to “help people afford a college education without getting buried in debt.” (78 percent of those surveyed agreed)
“Rich families and corporations should pay a lot more in taxes than they do today, and middle-class families should pay less.”
People who don’t receive health insurance from an employer should be allowed to buy into a public plan, and pharmaceutical companies should be “penalized” if drug prices increase faster than the rate of inflation.
Increase “good jobs” with a $1 trillion investment in infrastructure, including both roads and “expanded production of green energy.”
Reduce inequality with a 2 percent “wealth tax” on net worth in excess of $50 million. |
| Quote: | | While the president remains divisive, the report finds majorities of Democrats, independents and Republicans agree on many things. |
Center for American Progress and pollster GBAO
via
The Washington Post |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | Here is some more echo chamber data I’ve found over the last few years:
The more racially diverse a place is, the more likely to vote Democratic.
BEING something other than white, heterosexual, or male makes one more likely to vote democratic.
The denser the population, the more likely to vote democratic.
The possession of a passport makes one more likely to vote democratic.
Living more than fifty miles from the place of birth makes one more likely to vote democratic.
It would seem willingness to take in new experiences and share them with people unknown to and less like you does not in fact, make one vote republican. Quite the opposite. |
Well, also....being more highly educated tends to make one more democratic as well.
There's (IMO) also some natural selection going on here. If one side has good arguments and the other has bad arguments, the bad arguments will be weeded out, and over time, the people with those bad arguments as well. |
Evolution is filled with mass killings and burned libraries
The less intelligent lifeforms just up the violence factor like Hiroshima and Nagasaki |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: |
The vote for Bill Barr confirmation''''
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To add, since this is topical with the hearing yesterday, this is what Jonathan Turley said about Barr for the Confirmation Hearing For Attorney General Nominee William Pelham Bar:
| Quote: | | As I have stated publicly, I can think of no person better suited to lead the Justice Department at this critical period in history.Bill Barr is a brilliant and honorable lawyer who can ensure stability and integrity in these turbulent times. While we seem to be living in an age of rage, the Barr nomination should be an opportunity for both sides to find a common ground in our commitment to the rule of law and equal justice. Those are the values that define Bill Barr and I have no doubt that those are the values that he would bring every day to the office of the Attorney General of the United States. |
Turley written statement |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:34 am Post subject: |
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ribeye,.just use their own Facebook and Twitter feeds to show how many people Hate Trump and his Epstein Visa Bride
Since Liberals are more tech savvy they fill Republicans feeds FULL of tasty liberal hate.
Melania really (bleep) stepped in it yesterday
https://mobile.twitter.com/FLOTUS/status/1202344441924571136
FWIW, How do you earn a Einstein Visa yet have to plagiarize Michelle Obama? |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: |
The vote for Bill Barr confirmation''''
|
To add, since this is topical with the hearing yesterday, this is what Jonathan Turley said about Barr for the Confirmation Hearing For Attorney General Nominee William Pelham Bar:
| Quote: | | As I have stated publicly, I can think of no person better suited to lead the Justice Department at this critical period in history.Bill Barr is a brilliant and honorable lawyer who can ensure stability and integrity in these turbulent times. While we seem to be living in an age of rage, the Barr nomination should be an opportunity for both sides to find a common ground in our commitment to the rule of law and equal justice. Those are the values that define Bill Barr and I have no doubt that those are the values that he would bring every day to the office of the Attorney General of the United States. |
Turley written statement |
AND Turdley didn't vote for Trump, right?  Makes him totally non-partisan.
Our AG's father wrote a sci-fi book filled with sexual fantasies around raping underaged girls and being owned by oligarchs
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgpm3/epstein-truthers-are-obsessed-with-a-sci-fi-book-about-child-sex-slavery-written-by-bill-barrs-dad
Slick Willy needs to go  |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | How Every Senator Voted
Republicans
Rand Paul Ky.
N
Democrats
Doug Jones Ala.
Y
Joe Manchin III W.Va.
Y
Kyrsten Sinema Ariz.
Y
The vote for Bill Barr confirmation''''
People voted Yes to a man who had already written plenty of literature showing he was unfit to be Trump's AG
Was Rand Paul's no vote just for optics?
He made America far worse off and empowered Trump and all the (bleep) that comes with him.
Twice now he has been an imposter. Defrauding America's citizenry and the whole world with his lies and cover-ups
Now he.seems.to be loonier than Trump himself
These people must be removed at any cost |
would it be better to vote for a diff democrat senate candidates for those districts or let them play politics? |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | Here is some more echo chamber data I’ve found over the last few years:
The more racially diverse a place is, the more likely to vote Democratic.
BEING something other than white, heterosexual, or male makes one more likely to vote democratic.
The denser the population, the more likely to vote democratic.
The possession of a passport makes one more likely to vote democratic.
Living more than fifty miles from the place of birth makes one more likely to vote democratic.
It would seem willingness to take in new experiences and share them with people unknown to and less like you does not in fact, make one vote republican. Quite the opposite. |
Well, also....being more highly educated tends to make one more democratic as well.
There's (IMO) also some natural selection going on here. If one side has good arguments and the other has bad arguments, the bad arguments will be weeded out, and over time, the people with those bad arguments as well. |
I happened to see something interesting about this:
Democrats now more educated than Republicans
When it comes to education, the parties have switched places over the past two decades.
According to a Pew Research Center poll released this week, Democrats are now the party of college graduates, especially those with post-graduate work. Meanwhile, people with a high-school degree or less, by far the larger group, slightly lean toward Republicans.
Both preferences are the reverse of what they were in the 1990s.
According to Pew, 54 percent of college graduates either identified as Democrats or leaned Democratic, compared to 39 percent who identified or leaned Republican. One-third of Americans have a college degree.
Just 25 years ago, those numbers were perfectly reversed in the Pew survey, with the GOP holding a 54-39 advantage among people with college degrees.
Anyway, the issue of whether this place leans more left than others is pointless. I get why those that are hammering away at it are doing so - it's an attempt at trying to assert that aspect somehow negates the substance of the discussion here - the whole "echo chamber" argument. But that's meaningless because it's based on the wholly false assumption that because people lean left, they have no concept of anything outside of that perspective.
Like the comment, "Well you're from California, so you have no idea what the rest of the nation is like because that's a Blue State . . ." which is obviously absurd on many levels. The biggest of course being the ignorance about the state itself. Yes, it goes "blue" on the political map. But it's a huge state with large pockets of all kinds of political/societal pockets. There are large swaths of the state that are very red. Even right here in SoCal, there are sections that lean red. The other obvious flaw is that the notion that Californians somehow don't pay any attention to what goes on in the rest of the world and don't have friends and family from other parts the country that may be Red States.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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