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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:49 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
^^They would be worse than people who actually voted for Trump

A protest vote in 2020 is Treason

Here's to hoping we are voting for Republican President Pelosi by then

This has been known forever.. Rick Perry was the Dud sent as proof the Quid Pro Quo already started.. Pence was supposed to go so it would give Ukraine international clout that the USVP showed up BUT NO.. It was some (bleep) who didn't even know what the DOE was but was put in charge of it.


to put it bluntly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Bernie could gain some voters by telling his current supporters

"No matter what happens, I repeat, no matter what get out and vote and help rid our country of Donald Trump
This year, 2020, a protest vote is Treason"


I recognize Americans have both rights..
To vote
Not to vote

We are at an Apex where it may be very hard to look back at the America we knew if a Republican wins in 2020.. Dark days will be written...

I just remembered Bush second term was won by bashing Gays and Terrorism.. our species and country made it so far in 8 years... its almost all gone in 3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject:

Reminder, part two of Rachel Maddow's interview with Lev Parnas is tonight.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:59 pm    Post subject:

Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject:

Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It was nice to see Donald Trump Jr. come to Bernie’s defense

A strike against Bernie.


https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-guilt-by-association/

Isn't DT Jr. the Lyndon Johnson for this administration? IIRC when dirt had to be disseminated Johnson did it. In my mind DT Jr is speaking for his father.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It was nice to see Donald Trump Jr. come to Bernie’s defense

A strike against Bernie.


https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-guilt-by-association/

Isn't DT Jr. the Lyndon Johnson for this administration? IIRC when dirt had to be disseminated Johnson did it. In my mind DT Jr is speaking for his father.


Doesn't matter who he is speaking for, whatever he (or Trump himself) says about Bernie has no bearing on Bernie himself.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It was nice to see Donald Trump Jr. come to Bernie’s defense

A strike against Bernie.


https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-guilt-by-association/

Isn't DT Jr. the Lyndon Johnson for this administration? IIRC when dirt had to be disseminated Johnson did it. In my mind DT Jr is speaking for his father.


Doesn't matter who he is speaking for, whatever he (or Trump himself) says about Bernie has no bearing on Bernie himself.

It affects Bernie's campaign?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:56 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:

I don't think Trump ever had the unity. He was battling Never Trumpers and nervous Republicans to the finish line. NOW I think he has the unity. They've gotten a taste, their stock portfolios are stronger than ever (the only thing rich Repubs care about), and they even find him entertaining. He is much stronger now than he was in 2016 (on money alone), which is why I fundamentally believe the strategy of running the most boring, inoffensive candidate you can find against him is a mistake. You need to go bold with a candidate who can inspire (yes, even if it's cultish), and most importantly can keep pace with him in terms of dollars. Does anyone honestly believe these Berners (Bernout Brigade, Bros, whatever pejorative you prefer) are going to lay down what little hard earned money they have for Biden? You could probably score it as a win just to get them to vote for him.


Bernie can't win without the female vote. The same female vote that made impeachment possible by winning big in 2018.
His supporters trashing a moderate left female candidate and now a progressive left female candidate within 4 years with a blood thirst that rivals Trumpers doesn't help.

Whomever wins the primary has shown they can build the largest coalition. It's not as simple as nominate Biden we lose, nominate Bernie we win. Maybe both can win. Maybe both would lose.

Primaries are built to determine the direction of the party. General elections are about the direction of the country.

Anybody who thinks Biden is 1/2 way between Bernie and Trump. Should go visit Ruth bader ginsburg in the hospital next time she's there and explain that myopic point of view to her face.

And this is coming from someone who would vote Bernie over Biden in a primary without hesitation.

Either we're the party that puts policy before politicians or we aren't. The ballot box will give us the answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...


"Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize, half of 'em are stupider than that!"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:09 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...


"Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize, half of 'em are stupider than that!"


I often wonder what George would be saying in times like this.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...


"Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize, half of 'em are stupider than that!"


I often wonder what George would be saying in times like this.


He used to say that the country was bought and paid for a long time ago and that it didn't matter which person was the president. That you have no right to complain if you DO vote, rather than the conventional wisdom that it's the other way around. I wonder if he would change his tune these days.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?

Just me?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...

There was a stupid 60 Minutes segment I watched hosted by Oprah in late 2017 centered on a Frank Luntz organized voter bloc from Michigan in which an Asian American woman in her 40s or early 50s noted that she had voted for Clinton twice, Bush twice, Obama twice, and then Trump in 2016. When confronted with what occurred in Charlottesville and Trump's pro-white supremacist response she replied that voters weren't "giving Donald a fair chance."

Too many "low information" voters aren't party line, aren't ideological, they're "feel" based voters. I don't know which non-Trump candidate resinates with the "feel" based voters.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:38 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?

Just me?


I can vouch for the fewer personnel for sure. He relied on unmanned strikes (drone). Which for the time was a big step forward.

You're probably right about the rest. But more importantly, you're speaking to his judgement. This was a guy who voted against the Iraq war to begin with. And although he couldn't withdraw from Middle Eastern conflicts (like he campaigned to do).
When he got into office, we all trusted that he was informed of the details and wanted to maintain what was best for our country overseas while not gutting services domestically.

I could go on a long tangent. But to summarize where I'm going with this is. He believed military spending or tax cuts shouldn't come out of the pocket of the middle and lower class. And we all trusted he wouldn't lie to cover his ass. Like we're all worried about now with Trump. Specifically Trump's justification for attacking Iran's #2.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:07 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?

Just me?


I can vouch for the fewer personnel for sure. He relied on unmanned strikes (drone). Which for the time was a big step forward.

You're probably right about the rest. But more importantly, you're speaking to his judgement. This was a guy who voted against the Iraq war to begin with. And although he couldn't withdraw from Middle Eastern conflicts (like he campaigned to do).
When he got into office, we all trusted that he was informed of the details and wanted to maintain what was best for our country overseas while not gutting services domestically.

I could go on a long tangent. But to summarize where I'm going with this is. He believed military spending or tax cuts shouldn't come out of the pocket of the middle and lower class. And we all trusted he wouldn't lie to cover his ass. Like we're all worried about now with Trump. Specifically Trump's justification for attacking Iran's #2.

I'd be more than fine with Sandets as Executive in Chief, and he's my second choice behind Warren. Despite what greefrog may believe, I will more happily phone bank and knock on doors for Sanders and would so with more passion than I would for Biden or Buttigieg (sp), but any US president is going to come face to face with the foreign policy failures of previous presidencies and realize quickly that there isn't an easy escape hatch from the US's entanglements overseas.

Like...is Sanders expected to close bases in Okinawa and South Korea?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:11 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

I'd be more than fine with Sandets as Executive in Chief, and he's my second choice behind Warren. Despite what greefrog may believe, I will more happily phone bank and knock on doors for Sanders and would so with more passion than I would for Biden or Buttigieg (sp), but any US president is going to come face to face with the foreign policy failures of previous presidencies and realize quickly that there isn't an easy escape hatch from the US's entanglements overseas.

Like...is Sanders expected to close bases in Okinawa and South Korea?

I agree with everything you said. And I agree x1000 on the bolded.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:13 pm    Post subject:

After Sarah Sanders made fun of Biden's stutter a few weeks ago (eventually apologized for it and deleted her tweet), now it's Lara Trump's turn. That's Eric's wife. She made the remark at a "Women for Trump" event.

These are awful people.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:39 pm    Post subject:

I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:59 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:21 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:32 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject:

I think the Democrats in the Senate should negotiate a deal that allows Republicans to call Hunter Biden, because any issue they bring up about nepotism will only highlight Trump family corruption. Plus, who else will be called by Republicans? They don't have anyone to say none of this scam happened.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

That darn Republican Liz creating the CFPB, a beloved GOP institution. Clearly she "switched parties" 30 years ago just waiting to stab Bernie in the back while all the while being a secret Republican operative.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject:

"Both parties are the same and bad"

- Independent centrists

- Bernie suoporters
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