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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:07 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
"Both parties are the same and bad"

- Independent centrists

- Bernie suoporters (but we don't mind exploiting the DNC so Bernie doesn't have to run as an Independent)


Fixed for greater accuracy.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject:

Biden Picks up another AA congresswoman

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/17/terri-sewell-endorses-joe-biden-alabama-100298

Quote:

In a phone interview with POLITICO, Sewell said Biden is the preferred candidate of the base of the Democratic Party: black women.


Quote:
Alabama Rep. Terri Sewell endorsed Joe Biden for president Friday, giving the former vice president his 11th endorsement from a black member of Congress heading into the Martin Luther King Jr. Day weekend.


Waiting patiently for the Berner false equivalency/deflection definition of this event...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:29 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?

Just me?


We had the the sequestration that was designed to curb spending from FY 2013 - 2021. But there continued to be adjustments so that, at least according to this--scroll down to see chart--only 2013 saw cuts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.


Yep . . . plenty of people with zero "economic anxiety" who are racist as (bleep)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.


Yep . . . plenty of people with zero "economic anxiety" who are racist as (bleep)

I assume he's also being shown by campaign staff that he polls well with disaffected racists and doesn't want to alienate a potential voting bloc.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Didn't...didn't Obama start to lower military spending in his second term or is my memory shot? Towards the end of his term he was pushing for a more sophisticated military with fewer personnel overall and smaller troop deployments overseas, no? Am I imagining things?

Just me?


We had the the sequestration that was designed to curb spending from FY 2013 - 2021. But there continued to be adjustments so that, at least according to this--scroll down to see chart--only 2013 saw cuts.

Thank you for that. Remember sequestration? Republicans have sucked for over a century now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:52 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Also the, "why did Warren come out with this info now and not X months ago argument" is eerily similar to the Republican response to when women came forward about Trump during the general election.
I'm noticing a pattern of Bernie supporters not acknowledging Bernie is human and he can make mistakes.
And this is coming from someone who has Bernie high on his list. It's just the very vocal overzealous sect of Bernie supporters make it tough to root for Bernie sometimes.


A few things I've noticed interacting with Bernie's supporters on social media and where I live here in eastern Washington:

- Many of them just can't comprehend why anyone in their right mind would vote for Biden.
- They also say that they haven't actually met anyone that supports Biden. Of course, that could easily change if they hung around Biden's largest and most passionate base of support, African Americans. But they don't know many people like that.
- Connected to the above, since they don't personally know any Biden supporters, they think most of the polls showing Biden ahead are manipulated by the mainstream media (the most frequent thing I hear is that the pollsters only interview old people with landlines). And if there's a poll that looks good for Bernie (even if an outlier and using the same methodology as most other polls) and if he advertises that poll on his social media accounts, they take that poll as the Bible.
- At one local pro-Bernie meeting in eastern Washington last summer attended by a few dozen people (college professors, young political activists, and other random people), I remember one guy saying that Biden is basically Trump. 95% of the room nodded in approval. And I was sitting there thinking "what the (bleep) is this?" It was the last meeting I attended.


While there are many Bernie supporters that are reasonable progressives who vote on policy and believe that Bernie is fallible, those people are not the most visible, loudest supporters. Social media is dominated by the cultists and it is because of those people why I became alienated from the movement in the middle of the primary in 2016.

So when I interact with them, including at some of the aforementioned local meetings, the minute you criticize Bernie, you become their enemy and then they start doubting your progressive bonafides. It is a cult of personality.

Thinking the bold above just applies to Bernie supporters, and not to pretty much every candidate, every celebrity, every cause, social media in general is your mistake. It's endemic to social media. I see zealotry too in Bernie supporters but I definitely see it elsewhere, and I for sure don't claim to be aware of what's going on in social media (I can't even keep up with this board), so you likely have a better perspective on that. I just don't encounter it myself with people at dinners, parties, whatever who are Bernie supporters. Face to face. Mostly people who are not active campaigners but still support Bernie, though, so maybe it's a different group than yo usee and saw at that campaign event. I don't think Biden is basically Trump but for people who things haven't changed much, maybe they see it that way. That goes for people who are fine with things who will vote for Biden but don't want the risk of Trump this time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Was watching reporters talk to a woman in Iowa. She caucused for Bernie in 16, voted for Trump, is for Medicare for all but is supporting Mayor Pete. And if he doesn't win the nomination, she will probably vote for Trump again. You figure that out...


"Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize, half of 'em are stupider than that!"


I often wonder what George would be saying in times like this.
Clearly, he'd be a Biden campaign lead.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Bernie is sexist and racist now, getting Hillaried
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject:

So . . . Parnes tells us the reason he came forward is that he doesn't trust the Justice Department and Bill Barr. (I have no real idea if the fear is justified.)

Then it occurs to me that Epstein (who just might have something to say about a lot of very powerful people), died under strange circumstances while in prison.

I then read that Dershowitz is going to be one of Trump's attorneys.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Bernie is sexist and racist now, getting Hillaried


Where did he get called "racist"?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.

The especially odd thing was Sanders citing the rise of anti-semitism following WWI as an example when he knows full well that anti-semitism predates capitalism, that Nazi supporters in the German American Bund weren't converted into anti-semitism because of "economic anxiety" thousands of miles away from Paramus, that Hitler's anti-semitism had nothing to do with the London Schedule of Payments.

There are quite a few men and women of color who also suffer from economic anxiety in America and avoided voting for a racist demagogue.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
^
I think Bernie genuinely started as a protest candidate in 2016, not thinking he'd have a chance to beat Hillary. Then the dynamics changed, he became very popular, many of his supporters began a cult of personality, he lost control of much of it, and then he just went with it. I always found his supporters more objectionable than him, though he's far from perfect.

Completely agree with the bolded. I was disappointed when Warren didn't run (although I had no idea what she thought on foreign policy (still largely don't yet) I looked forward to hearing about it), and then he got in, and i and everyone else thought it was not a big deal (same as Trump at the time). Tha's why I think economic dissatisfaction was a big part, though not all of their success with voters.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
So . . . Parnes tells us the reason he came forward is that he doesn't trust the Justice Department and Bill Barr. (I have no real idea if the fear is justified.)

Then it occurs to me that Epstein (who just might have something to say about a lot of very powerful people), died under strange circumstances while in prison.

I then read that Dershowitz is going to be one of Trump's attorneys.

He said or suggested that he's afraid for his safety, Parnes?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
ribeye wrote:
So . . . Parnes tells us the reason he came forward is that he doesn't trust the Justice Department and Bill Barr. (I have no real idea if the fear is justified.)

Then it occurs to me that Epstein (who just might have something to say about a lot of very powerful people), died under strange circumstances while in prison.

I then read that Dershowitz is going to be one of Trump's attorneys.

He said or suggested that he's afraid for his safety, Parnes?


Not in those words but he did say that he was more afraid of the Justice Department than of any criminals. And let me correct my original spelling error: His name is Parnas.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Implicit in the GOP's willingness to smash through every guardrail that checks executive power on Herr Trump's behalf is that they know Democrats won't ever elect a full on corrupt kleptocrat with authoritarian ambitions whereas they look forward to the next Republican president having the same freedom to do the same (bleep) all over again. Maybe...maybe...Susan Collins will have a niggling pang of self doubt on her death bed and ask herself, "were we the baddies?" That'll be about it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Implicit in the GOP's willingness to smash through every guardrail that checks executive power on Herr Trump's behalf is that they know Democrats won't ever elect a full on corrupt kleptocrat with authoritarian ambitions whereas they look forward to the next Republican president having the same freedom to do the same (bleep) all over again. Maybe...maybe...Susan Collins will have a niggling pang of self doubt on her death bed and ask herself, "were we the baddies?" That'll be about it.


...then she'll hear McConnell's voice telling her to shut up, and she'll shut up and absolve herself again.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject:

So I took the Washington Post candidate quiz and apparently I'm a Bernie supporter now and I hope he picks Andrew Yang as his VP.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
So I took the Washington Post candidate quiz and apparently I'm a Bernie supporter now and I hope he picks Andrew Yang as his VP.


I got Yang, too. Bernie and Liz tied for second.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.


Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.


Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
So I took the Washington Post candidate quiz and apparently I'm a Bernie supporter now and I hope he picks Andrew Yang as his VP.


I got Yang, too. Bernie and Liz tied for second.


Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Steyer > 11; Biden, Yang > 10; Warren > 9; Gabbard > 7; Sanders > 6

Not the order of my preferences, but that is how these simplistic tests work.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Oh there's a new one with Bloomberg? Didn't know.

If I got Bloomberg or Klobuchar I would be probably climbing the Vincent Thomas Bridge.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.


Yeah, I saw that thing he did with the NYT and it just seemed so tone deaf. It ignores centuries of history and boils it down to economic anxiety and otherizing minorities. Race will always be a blind spot for him.


Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?
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