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kikanga
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 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
There's a strongly held belief among some leftists that Russia's interference in the 2016 election never happened and that it's a hoax made up by "The Democratic Establishment" to cover for Clinton's loss or something. |
Now I know why you feel the way you do about Bernie supporters.
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Theseus
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
There's a strongly held belief among some leftists that Russia's interference in the 2016 election never happened and that it's a hoax made up by "The Democratic Establishment" to cover for Clinton's loss or something. |
Its the first I've heard of it, and I know a lot of ardent Bernie supporters in my personal life. I'm sure there isn't supporting evidence. If I were one of those Russians trying to make Bernie Sanders look bad, I'd adopt this viewpoint for my online persona. It makes them look lacking in credibility. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Theseus wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
There's a strongly held belief among some leftists that Russia's interference in the 2016 election never happened and that it's a hoax made up by "The Democratic Establishment" to cover for Clinton's loss or something. |
Its the first I've heard of it, and I know a lot of ardent Bernie supporters in my personal life. I'm sure there isn't supporting evidence. If I were one of those Russians trying to make Bernie Sanders look bad, I'd adopt this viewpoint for my online persona. It makes them look lacking in credibility. |
Certainly not that would refute all the evidence that it did indeed happen.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
Greenfrog read an article that alluded to this, though it did say so in as many words. Therefore, since the article said it, it must be true.
I watch her nearly every day, and, unlike greenfrog, she is very careful with her language. She is always asking reporters if her paraphrasing of a story is correct (did I get anything wrong?), and she notes if a story is single sourced (which rarely it is) and who or what news organization is the original source. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Theseus wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
There's a strongly held belief among some leftists that Russia's interference in the 2016 election never happened and that it's a hoax made up by "The Democratic Establishment" to cover for Clinton's loss or something. |
Its the first I've heard of it, and I know a lot of ardent Bernie supporters in my personal life. I'm sure there isn't supporting evidence. If I were one of those Russians trying to make Bernie Sanders look bad, I'd adopt this viewpoint for my online persona. It makes them look lacking in credibility. |
Glenn Greenwald is the biggest proponent of it. He has more elaborate theories about the intel agencies trying to undermine Trump's legitimate election, but Greenwald along with Assange and Snowden hate Clinton for her time as Secretary of State.
Oh, and Matt Taibbi.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Part of me wants Bernie to win the Presidency and be as lawless as Trump. I want him to expand executive branch powers and implement the most extreme left wing policy possible.
Just so when Republicans complain I can play dumb, downplay things, and use whatabout-isms to defend him. |
I would actually quite enjoy that. Ultimately I think it would be counterproductive, but it'd be fun in the short term. |
Right!
"In the first month, President Sanders through executive orders has outlawed all fire arms, started a program for 'rounding up their guns', started a task force for prosecuting camp guards at the border camps, given everyone with student debt a credit worth twice the amount they owe, freed all non violent criminals in jails and prisons, doubled the sentencing for all white collar crimes, doubled the sentencing for all sexually related crimes, and legalized all drugs."
Republicans: "This is ridiculous. He's not a monarch."
Me: (shrugs) |
For what it's worth, last night on the campaign trail Warren said one of differences between her and Bernie is that she wants to nuke the Senate filibuster and he does't. (She also wants to make sure all the corrupt lawbreakers from Trump on down are investigated and indicted if they broke the law). And don't forget packing the Supreme Court. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Bernie captured that precious Williamson endorsement.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rep. Clyburn on tv going anti-Bernie (socialist label and effect down ballot fears) but interestingly he’s not endorsing Biden, might be that he’s open to back Amy or Warren. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Rep. Clyburn on tv going anti-Bernie (socialist label and effect down ballot fears) but interestingly he’s not endorsing Biden, might be that he’s open to back Amy or Warren. |
It was reported minutes ago that he plans to endorse Biden on Wednesday. He didn't endorse anyone in 2016.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Rep. Clyburn on tv going anti-Bernie (socialist label and effect down ballot fears) but interestingly he’s not endorsing Biden, might be that he’s open to back Amy or Warren. |
It was reported minutes ago that he plans to endorse Biden on Wednesday. He didn't endorse anyone in 2016. |
Oh ok, Biden still ok then |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Part of me wants Bernie to win the Presidency and be as lawless as Trump. I want him to expand executive branch powers and implement the most extreme left wing policy possible.
Just so when Republicans complain I can play dumb, downplay things, and use whatabout-isms to defend him. |
I would actually quite enjoy that. Ultimately I think it would be counterproductive, but it'd be fun in the short term. |
Right!
"In the first month, President Sanders through executive orders has outlawed all fire arms, started a program for 'rounding up their guns', started a task force for prosecuting camp guards at the border camps, given everyone with student debt a credit worth twice the amount they owe, freed all non violent criminals in jails and prisons, doubled the sentencing for all white collar crimes, doubled the sentencing for all sexually related crimes, and legalized all drugs."
Republicans: "This is ridiculous. He's not a monarch."
Me: (shrugs) |
For what it's worth, last night on the campaign trail Warren said one of differences between her and Bernie is that she wants to nuke the Senate filibuster and he does't. (She also wants to make sure all the corrupt lawbreakers from Trump on down are investigated and indicted if they broke the law). And don't forget packing the Supreme Court. |
You’re preaching to the choir. Warren is my preference by a mile. And I was there step by step while she went from bipartisanship to nuking the filibuster this campaign. Loved when she said concentration camp workers will be prosecuted (there is alot of abuse happening). Not to mention the Supreme Court packing. She has been at the forefront of pragmatism and policy for years now. And she is by far the best candidate on both fronts. It’s a shame she is punished by the electorate for not having a Y chromosome.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | For those Sanders supporters in here, when you get together with Bernie buddies IRL, do you folks joke about Chris Matthews "getting the guillotine" in Central Park after Sanders wins or is that just an online phenomenon? |
Like, is this what y'all talk about at DSA meetings? Beheading Chris Matthews in public?
| Quote: | Ian Samuel
@isamuel
As the presumptive nominee, we think it’s time to unify. No matter who you voted for in the primary, and even if you’re a Republican, Bernie’s got an agenda that you’ll be proud of. |
https://twitter.com/isamuel/status/1231767697941073920
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Warren is my preference by a mile. And I was there step by step while she went from bipartisanship to nuking the filibuster this campaign. Loved when she said concentration camp workers will be prosecuted (there is alot of abuse happening). Not to mention the Supreme Court packing. She has been at the forefront of pragmatism and policy for years now. And she is by far the best candidate on both fronts. It’s a shame she is punished by the electorate for not having a Y chromosome. |
Yep. Unfortunately too many "progressive" people have a bizarre affinity for an old, brash, dishonest white dude with a cult following.
Sound familiar?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Ted
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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For all of you who think Bernie has no shot at beating Trump, who do you think does have the best chance?
Personally, I think Bernie has the best shot. I think his support is being underrated, and if he wins the nomination, the voter turnout will be in record numbers. I think all the "anti-Bernie" sentiment is mainly online/twitter and cable news. I have family in the midwest and anecdotally, there is a lot of support for Sanders, they feel he speaks to them and they just want someone who listens to them. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Ted wrote: | For all of you who think Bernie has no shot at beating Trump, who do you think does have the best chance?
Personally, I think Bernie has the best shot. I think his support is being underrated, and if he wins the nomination, the voter turnout will be in record numbers. I think all the "anti-Bernie" sentiment is mainly online/twitter and cable news. I have family in the midwest and anecdotally, there is a lot of support for Sanders, they feel he speaks to them and they just want someone who listens to them. |
It should disturb you that the thing you offer up as the reason that Bernie is the best option to beat Trump is that there are large numbers of people who only care about seeing him elected and if he isn't the candidate, they won't show up.
As I have said, it disturbs me because it indicates his base doesn't genuinely care about the issues and the state of the nation. They just want to win a popularity contest. That's why they attack the Democratic Party that he claims to be a part of. They play the victim when things go against him and even engage in ridiculous conspiracy theories to further those arguments
Why is that significant? Because there is a lot more at stake in regards to policy shaping over the course of the winner's term. And that means having involved voters who not only show up for the big show in the Presidential election, but are also involved in the midterms etc. that shape the rest of our representative body.
People really need to focus beyond the idea if simply beating Trump. We need to also realize there is a lot of work to be done to get this country back on track should Trump be successfully voted out.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Ted
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Ted wrote: | For all of you who think Bernie has no shot at beating Trump, who do you think does have the best chance?
Personally, I think Bernie has the best shot. I think his support is being underrated, and if he wins the nomination, the voter turnout will be in record numbers. I think all the "anti-Bernie" sentiment is mainly online/twitter and cable news. I have family in the midwest and anecdotally, there is a lot of support for Sanders, they feel he speaks to them and they just want someone who listens to them. |
It should disturb you that the thing you offer up as the reason that Bernie is the best option to beat Trump is that there are large numbers of people who only care about seeing him elected and if he isn't the candidate, they won't show up.
As I have said, it disturbs me because it indicates his base doesn't genuinely care about the issues and the state of the nation. They just want to win a popularity contest. That's why they attack the Democratic Party that he claims to be a part of. They play the victim when things go against him and even engage in ridiculous conspiracy theories to further those arguments
Why is that significant? Because there is a lot more at stake in regards to policy shaping over the course of the winner's term. And that means having involved voters who not only show up for the big show in the Presidential election, but are also involved in the midterms etc. that shape the rest of our representative body.
People really need to focus beyond the idea if simply beating Trump. We need to also realize there is a lot of work to be done to get this country back on track should Trump be successfully voted out. |
If that's the reality of the situation, then that's the reality. You can't fault people for not having the same beliefs as you or same political views or goals as yourself. You're absolutely right, there are huge numbers of Sanders supporters that will probably stay home if he's not the nominee (especially if he loses in a brokered convention). It doesn't sit well with you, myself, and many others, but that seems to be the reality.
So with that said, who do you think has the best chance at beating Trump? This is taking into account the rabid Sanders fanbase. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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eddiejonze
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Surfitall
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Same
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Your political coordinates are: 69.4% Left, 63.9% Liberal
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governator
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: |
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How many Republicans were appalled by Trump during the run up to the 2016 elections, who have now fallen in line and turn a blind eye to the most disastrous presidency in history? Seemed like no one took Trump seriously when he started his campaign. Now everything the (bleep) grabber does that is illegal and just plain foolish is excused as the deep state trying to overturn the election.
If Bernie is the candidate, the Democrats will fall in line just the Republicans did for Trump.
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | How many Republicans were appalled by Trump during the run up to the 2016 elections, who have now fallen in line and turn a blind eye to the most disastrous presidency in history? Seemed like no one took Trump seriously when he started his campaign. Now everything the (bleep) grabber does that is illegal and just plain foolish is excused as the deep state trying to overturn the election.
If Bernie is the candidate, the Democrats will fall in line just the Republicans did for Trump. |
Maybe but $/tax increases is the most powerful or the hardest agenda Bernie gotta sell to middle/middle upper/upper income Democrats, trump was and is just a bumbling baffoon but he gets them a perceived ‘tax cut’ |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:38 am Post subject: |
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From the Jimmy C thread:
| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | Jimmy Carter always does the right thing. |
Supported Lester Maddox as governor of Georgia instead of Bo Callaway. So no. |
Hard to remember the minutia of the 1970's, especially the more obscure, at least to me, but I found this from Wiki:
| Quote: | | Jimmy Carter, who had sat out the Democratic runoff election between Arnall and Maddox much to Arnall's outrage, finally endorsed Maddox, having described the Democratic state platform excluding racial matters as "more progressive and more liberal" than the Republican alternative. |
and this:
| Quote: | Political party [for Callaway]
Democratic (Before 1964)
Republican (1964–2014)
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Gee, I wonder what major bill was signed about that time? (Hint: LBJ is alleged to have said with that signing, “We have lost the South for a generation") |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | How many Republicans were appalled by Trump during the run up to the 2016 elections, who have now fallen in line and turn a blind eye to the most disastrous presidency in history? Seemed like no one took Trump seriously when he started his campaign. Now everything the (bleep) grabber does that is illegal and just plain foolish is excused as the deep state trying to overturn the election.
If Bernie is the candidate, the Democrats will fall in line just the Republicans did for Trump. |
Republicans have fallen in line because Trump rarely deviates from the party agenda. It's also a much narrower, less diverse, and more ideologically focused demographic that dominates the GOP versus the Democratic Party.
If Sanders wants to govern like Obama while ranting about inequality and Washington gridlock at his rallies, Joe Manchin will likely be just fine going with the flow much like Susan Collins mostly keeps in line as long as she gets rich people tax cuts. But do you really see Manchin falling in lockstep behind a Green New Deal as long as he cares about being reelected in West Virginia in 2024?
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