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ChefLinda
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 Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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And yes, only having the house while they have the senate and White House is a legislative minority.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Assuming Mitch holds the senate, about the same. Ask obama |
That's the (bleep) that pisses me off. Glad about the good stuff in the bill. Glad we aren't soul less enough to block it and hurt Americans more than necessary in this time of crisis.
But we have to remember this next time we have the chance to play hardball when there isn't a crisis.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Bernie supporters approach legislation like they do primaries. We’re in the minority, so we should get everything we want and the majority should pound sand. Or else it’s rigged. |
You mean the way Republicans act when they're in the minority? |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
I feel ya. But I think we also need to find a way to be as effective as Republicans were when they only had one House in Congress and there was a Democrat President (112th and 113th Congress). 4 years of ruthless politics rewarded with sweeping the legislative and executive branches in 2016.
Of course not when there is a crisis of this magnitude though.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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C M B
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Bernie supporters approach legislation like they do primaries. We’re in the minority, so we should get everything we want and the majority should pound sand. Or else it’s rigged. |
You mean the way Republicans act when they're in the minority? |
yes.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Ok, let me explain how this works. The house passed a bill. The senate refused to take it up (Mitch can do that as majority leader). The senate made its own bill. First the gop drafted their own. The Dems blocked it. They then negotiated a compromise where some things the GOP wanted were taken out and some things the Dems wanted were put in. The Dems got a lot, including money for hospitals, money for states, unemployment subsidy of 600 a week for four months, no money going to businesses of top government people including trump, no stock buy backs in the following year, oversight of the bailouts, etc. after some showboating, all the GOP got on board. Now it goes to the house. Pelosi could try to tie it up in a reconciliation with her bill, but then you’re back to ground zero with nothing. Because Mitch WILL Deng that process. So Nancy let schummer get the best bill he could and is moving to pass it. |
But where does stamping your feet and the magic wand come in? |
A major thing that ticks me off about this process is that $1500 checks is what the House wanted. And the Senate took it down to $1200. Then bailed and tied the Democrats hands in the House.
This bill is woefully inadequate and at the same time going to be framed politically as a huge success for Trump and his party.
Just another instance of Democrats and Republicans operating by 2 separate rules. I'm fully aware now is not the time for Dems to dig in their heals and refuse. $1200 is better than nothing. But in the likely scenario Trump wins reelection and the economy and country rebound. We have to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.
It starts with the voters. So we need to make shrewd political choices. Like shutting down the government and not approving a spending bill until there is a national holiday for voting and substantial increases in voting rights so states can't suppress the vote. Seems extreme, but extreme is shutting down the government until there is mandatory voting like Australia. |
That these checks only will only go to the bottom four income quintiles (approximately), is a rather remarkable bottom-up approach, I'd say. Adding the quite impressive unemployment upgrades with expanded eligibility, and all I have to say is:
Good for the Democrats on this one. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Bernie supporters approach legislation like they do primaries. We’re in the minority, so we should get everything we want and the majority should pound sand. Or else it’s rigged. |
You mean the way Republicans act when they're in the minority? |
Yup. If we can’t have everything, you get nothing. You realize it’s not flattering to compare yourself to the republicans, right?
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
I feel ya. But I think we also need to find a way to be as effective as Republicans were when they only had one House in Congress and there was a Democrat President (112th and 113th Congress). 4 years of ruthless politics rewarded with sweeping the legislative and executive branches in 2016.
Of course not when there is a crisis of this magnitude though. |
Democrats will never be as ruthless as Republicans because:
1) They actually are capable of feeling empathy, compassion and shame
2) Republicans aren't
That doesn't mean they can't play hardball, but it can't be DURING a crisis when people's lives are on the line. Republicans would let people die and not care if they didn't get a deal. Democrats aren't wired that way.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
I feel ya. But I think we also need to find a way to be as effective as Republicans were when they only had one House in Congress and there was a Democrat President (112th and 113th Congress). 4 years of ruthless politics rewarded with sweeping the legislative and executive branches in 2016.
Of course not when there is a crisis of this magnitude though. |
Democrats will never be as ruthless as Republicans because:
1) They actually are capable of feeling empathy, compassion and shame
2) Republicans aren't
That doesn't mean they can play hardball, but it can't be DURING a crisis when people's lives are on the line. Republicans would let people die and not care if they didn't get a deal. Democrats aren't wired that way. |
Agreed.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
I feel ya. But I think we also need to find a way to be as effective as Republicans were when they only had one House in Congress and there was a Democrat President (112th and 113th Congress). 4 years of ruthless politics rewarded with sweeping the legislative and executive branches in 2016.
Of course not when there is a crisis of this magnitude though. |
Democrats will never be as ruthless as Republicans because:
1) They actually are capable of feeling empathy, compassion and shame
2) Republicans aren't
That doesn't mean they can play hardball, but it can't be DURING a crisis when people's lives are on the line. Republicans would let people die and not care if they didn't get a deal. Democrats aren't wired that way. |
3) I don't believe that the vast majority of Democrats want to, or more importantly, need to, lie to make and sell a valid point.
4) I don't believe that the vast majority of Democrats find comfort in hypocrisy, as has become second nature with Republicans.
5) I don't believe that the Democratic Party values the party over the country, as is beyond clearly demonstrated with the Republican Party.
6) I don't believe that the Democratic Party would ever . . . ever, ever, ever elect such a despicable scumbag to lead the party. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
The line going around in leftist circles right now is that Bernie Sanders "saved millions of lives" because he had a cool rant that went viral and threatened to vote against the Sasse and Graham backed stimulus bill amendment that would've effectively cut the unemployment insurance provision in the bill to practically nil.
Well, that amendment died on the floor with a 48-48 vote. It needed 60 votes to pass.
Now the unemployment insurance package in the stimulus bill is being attributed solely to Bernie. Something the "MSM will of course ignore."
It's unhinged at this point. |
I just read a post by my BernieBro buddy who said all you said there.
But the problem with that is that it only works within the Bernie bubble. They keep repeating that stuff to themselves and share the memes to themselves and the base isn't expanding. No one else believes that Bernie is the primary mover of the stimulus bill.
Another thing they say constantly is how Biden is nowhere to be seen. Granted, Biden's social media presence isn't as large and he had some technical difficulties initially, but he's been releasing statements and making videos daily in the last week or so. But since they only follow Bernie, they don't recognize the rest of the political world exists. |
I think they've pivoted to Biden as rapist, actually. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Bernie supporters approach legislation like they do primaries. We’re in the minority, so we should get everything we want and the majority should pound sand. Or else it’s rigged. |
You mean the way Republicans act when they're in the minority? |
yes. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
The line going around in leftist circles right now is that Bernie Sanders "saved millions of lives" because he had a cool rant that went viral and threatened to vote against the Sasse and Graham backed stimulus bill amendment that would've effectively cut the unemployment insurance provision in the bill to practically nil.
Well, that amendment died on the floor with a 48-48 vote. It needed 60 votes to pass.
Now the unemployment insurance package in the stimulus bill is being attributed solely to Bernie. Something the "MSM will of course ignore."
It's unhinged at this point. |
I just read a post by my BernieBro buddy who said all you said there.
But the problem with that is that it only works within the Bernie bubble. They keep repeating that stuff to themselves and share the memes to themselves and the base isn't expanding. No one else believes that Bernie is the primary mover of the stimulus bill.
Another thing they say constantly is how Biden is nowhere to be seen. Granted, Biden's social media presence isn't as large and he had some technical difficulties initially, but he's been releasing statements and making videos daily in the last week or so. But since they only follow Bernie, they don't recognize the rest of the political world exists. |
I think they've pivoted to Biden as rapist, actually. |
Pretty soon Biden will be accused of being the Zodiac killer. By the left.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: |
That these checks only will only go to the bottom four income quintiles (approximately), is a rather remarkable bottom-up approach, I'd say. Adding the quite impressive unemployment upgrades with expanded eligibility, and all I have to say is:
Good for the Democrats on this one. |
Very true. Happy the Dems fought hard for the American people.
It's 100x better than what we would've got if they weren't there fighting for us.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | And that's why Democrats need to take back the Senate. |
I feel ya. But I think we also need to find a way to be as effective as Republicans were when they only had one House in Congress and there was a Democrat President (112th and 113th Congress). 4 years of ruthless politics rewarded with sweeping the legislative and executive branches in 2016.
Of course not when there is a crisis of this magnitude though. |
Democrats will never be as ruthless as Republicans because:
1) They actually are capable of feeling empathy, compassion and shame
2) Republicans aren't
That doesn't mean they can play hardball, but it can't be DURING a crisis when people's lives are on the line. Republicans would let people die and not care if they didn't get a deal. Democrats aren't wired that way. |
3) I don't believe that the vast majority of Democrats want to, or more importantly, need to, lie to make and sell a valid point.
4) I don't believe that the vast majority of Democrats find comfort in hypocrisy, as has become second nature with Republicans.
5) I don't believe that the Democratic Party values the party over the country, as is beyond clearly demonstrated with the Republican Party.
6) I don't believe that the Democratic Party would ever . . . ever, ever, ever elect such a despicable scumbag to lead the party. |
7) I do believe you are correct.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ribeye wrote: |
That these checks only will only go to the bottom four income quintiles (approximately), is a rather remarkable bottom-up approach, I'd say. Adding the quite impressive unemployment upgrades with expanded eligibility, and all I have to say is:
Good for the Democrats on this one. |
Very true. Happy the Dems fought hard for the American people.
It's 100x better than what we would've got if they weren't there fighting for us. |
This should be the takeaway. While the "nothing short of perfect will do" crowd will of course poo poo it, once again SChummer and Pelosi got real results that matter to the people that the "let's do nothing if it's not perfect" crowd claims to be fighting for.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ribeye wrote: |
That these checks only will only go to the bottom four income quintiles (approximately), is a rather remarkable bottom-up approach, I'd say. Adding the quite impressive unemployment upgrades with expanded eligibility, and all I have to say is:
Good for the Democrats on this one. |
Very true. Happy the Dems fought hard for the American people.
It's 100x better than what we would've got if they weren't there fighting for us. |
And it doesn't require kissing Schumer's tuchus to acknowledge the hurdles Democrats face in trying to guide legislation through a McConnell controlled Senate. There's also an implicit assumption that Democratic Representatives are fools, hacks, criminals, or cowards at every turn if they don't take the most publicly visible stance possible that conforms exactly to the priors of the rando making the critiques online or at the bar.
Sometimes it feels like we're a bunch of egotistical weirdos shouting at each other about how experts in their field should do their jobs "properly" when we have no relevant experience and little knowledge of what the job actually entails. "Nancy Pelosi should do this!" I shout at my phone on my lunch break as a midlevel PR manager after earning my PoliSci minor 20 years ago and interning one summer in a Congressional office of a Representative long since dead.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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I can't imagine the strain Birx is under and I in some ways respect her efforts to guide the government's response without having Trump turn on her, but she should never be trusted as a public servant ever again. And tbh, a Biden administration should move on from Fauci, as well.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ribeye wrote: |
That these checks only will only go to the bottom four income quintiles (approximately), is a rather remarkable bottom-up approach, I'd say. Adding the quite impressive unemployment upgrades with expanded eligibility, and all I have to say is:
Good for the Democrats on this one. |
Very true. Happy the Dems fought hard for the American people.
It's 100x better than what we would've got if they weren't there fighting for us. |
This should be the takeaway. While the "nothing short of perfect will do" crowd will of course poo poo it, once again SChummer and Pelosi got real results that matter to the people that the "let's do nothing if it's not perfect" crowd claims to be fighting for. |
"Claims" being the operative word. I think there are a collection of people who have so convinced themselves they are about doing the right thing that they have crossed over into that self-righteous and unproductive world where their way is the only way, even if their way garners nothing tangible in regards to actually doing the right thing.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Trumps presser updates on COVID-19 are very troubling. He's talking about opening up businesses. He's about the dollar not public safety. IMO he's one of the reasons people are not taking Stay At Home as seriously as they should.
I understand why not being a fear monger is the right thing to do but not emphasizing the importance of Stay At Home is counterproductive. Some people are treating COVID-19 like the flu.
Trump talks about we have the best this and the best that. He doesn't mention we have more active cases than any country in the world.
He's now doing what he should have done in the beginning, getting PPE and ventilators. He's a day late and a dollar short.
The country is in as serious a dilemma as it has ever been. Unfortunately we have the most unqualified person as president we could possibly have to handle COVID-19.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Reporter: "What do you say to the restaurant owners and employees who are afraid of shutting down?
Trump: "I know the restaurant business, it's a very delicate business...one meal is all it takes for someone to never come back. But those restaurants will come back, one way or the other, they might be different restaurants, maybe with different management, but they'll be back."
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Jokes aside. How can anybody from the bottom 90% like this guy.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Quote: | Reporter: "What do you say to the restaurant owners and employees who are afraid of shutting down?
Trump: "I know the restaurant business, it's a very delicate business...one meal is all it takes for someone to never come back. But those restaurants will come back, one way or the other, they might be different restaurants, maybe with different management, but they'll be back."
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Jokes aside. How can anybody from the bottom 90% like this guy. |
Racism
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paymonM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Where is Joe? Would be great for him to show his face somewhere. Some leadership? Cisco Webex ? Zoom ? |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a Biden commercial doing exactly what I mentioned a couple of weeks ago when I said these campaign commercials write themselves. It's all video of Trump's lying and attacking the press at these briefings with numbers of corona cases superimposed over him as the dates on the calendar move forward. Really well done.
https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1243126834612572162 |
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