The results of the 2016 presidential election in the United States illustrate a broader reality, which is that the gap between the cosmopolitan city and the economic periphery has become the new social class divide across the West. Where people live, as much as how they live, now increasingly determines their beliefs, values, and sense of tribal belonging.
...Changes in the global economy have spatially sorted voters into progressive urbanites with a large stake in a new technological future, globalization, and liberal values, and the left-behind who see their own identity and economic prospects threatened as never before. Rural areas and small towns may have always been more culturally conservative, but this divide, combined with the resentment generated by economic and wealth inequality, has triggered the most prominent recent political explosions across the West....
The Roots of Regional Resentment: Globalization, Crisis, and Austerity
While much attention has focused on differences in values between progressive cosmopolitanism and provincial conservativism, the fact remains that conservative values, at least on matters of lifestyle and religion (if not on matters of national identity), are either stable or in decline. This makes the populist insurgency an anomaly, for a constant cannot explain a change.
What has changed in the last generation, however, is the level of economic and wealth inequality between regions of Western countries. As Joan Rosés and Nikolaus Wolf have shown, regional divergence began in the 1980s with globalization and deindustrialization, and it has deepened in recent years....
Why Now?
Thinking in terms of the new regional class divide also solves one of the perennial mysteries of the populist wave in Europe and the U.S.: Why is the disruption happening now, rather than a decade ago, at the height of the global financial crisis? The answer emerges very quickly when looking at how different regions have recovered—or not recovered—in the decade since.
While the crisis proved only a temporary setback for cosmopolitan cities such as London, Amsterdam, and New York—whose financial sectors were bailed out by government largesse—blighted ex-industrial regions continue to struggle under the burden of austerity. In the decade from 2008 to 2016, while GDP per capita rose over 13 percent for California and New York, it rose on average less than 3 percent across other U.S. states. While GDP per capita rose over 6 percent in Greater London, they rose by only half that in the rest of the U.K., and while per capita GDP recovered in Greater Paris by 3 percent, in the rest of France incomes did not grow at all. It is a pattern found across Europe, from the Netherlands to Sweden to Denmark, Italy, Ireland, and Greece. Wealthy, cosmopolitan cities surge ahead, and the periphery gets left further and further behind.
I realize this runs contrary to the race-narrative divide, which certainly is a factor, the cultural divide in the country and other Western post-industrial nations is largely driven by a growing chasm between in both wealth and hope between the haves and have-nots.
Yes, real people are upset about real income inequality and job loss. The difference is liberals don't blame it on black people and brown people and the right DOES blame it on black and brown people. If people on the right were really voting based on income inequality they would have wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren (instead they are labeled scary socialists) or for Democrats with jobs programs (like Clinton and Biden). But. They. Don't. They keep voting for Republicans who promise them nothing except empty rhetoric and more contempt for the same people they hate. And why now? Because the white demographic is shrinking and the the black/brown demographic is growing. This scares them and they blame their very real dilemma on those "other" people. Because it's easier to keep blaming "other" people then educate themselves on the issues and vote for candidates based on issues. And they blame the big city liberals too -- because we educated ourselves and joined in the new economy not based on the old labor model. The resent "our" success. Again, Democrats always place education, jobs and job retraining at the top of their agenda. But who pays attention and then votes based on that?
We'll see if Biden's message gets through. Because he's definitely trying to get the through to the huge middle class and working class. Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House have passed dozens and dozens of bills that would address many middle class economic concerns, but McConnell hasn't let any of them come up for a vote. Do Republican voters suffering from income inequality and job loss blame McConnell? Hell no. They would rather blame the evil Nancy Pelosi because the right-wing propaganda world tells them she is the boogie man. Their anger and resentment is legitimate, but what they do with it is completely irrational and based not on facts but on fear and loathing.
To reiterate my earlier point, the solution is to treat the root cause of the white underclass. I liked this article as it explained that the twin thrust into nationalistic politics and cultural divide is the result of economic conditions. Those residing in the rural or post-industrial regions were the ones the voted for Brexit; they hadn't participated in the economic gains in the urban areas and this coincides with the feeling that ruling class and foreigners were reaping the gains. Worse, there are workers in the UK that have been displaced via EU globalization. This is a direct parallel to what has happened in the United States, after years of factory closures and offshoring. Though any answer requires a comprehensive analysis beyond the scope of my post, I do believe that the root cause (economic) has to be addressed, or we'll see more extreme nationalist politics in the US and any other post-industrial Western nation.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that the white underclass in the stricken areas throughout the US are willing to embrace socialism or the liberal platform of either Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. That runs counter to the core belief of this entire demographic, which has sustained for at least two or three generations. Unfortunately this class is more likely to follow the beat of a crypto-fascist drum, which targets groups that they blame for the downfall. The politics of hate have made them angry at having to share the pie, while the pie itself has continued to shrink in size.
I realize this runs contrary to the race-narrative divide, which certainly is a factor, the cultural divide in the country and other Western post-industrial nations is largely driven by a growing chasm between in both wealth and hope between the haves and have-nots.
Racism is a derivative of classism. Race has been used as a justification to create an underclass out of "others."
Paula Dean lamented for the days when black men in white jackets served white people at country clubs that said black men could never join or even attend an event at (except as a servant).
Plenty of "wall builders" have no problem with Blanca cleaning their house and watching their kids for slave wages, or hiring non-union Diego off the books on construction jobs to keep costs down.
It's when the white-coated black men, the Blancas and Diegos want economic parity and the opportunity for their kids to get out of the underclass where you get problems.
The tell? Get a group of West LA, BLM-supporting cafe liberals together and bring up paying reparations to African Americans for slavery. You'd think you were at a meeting of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
It's ultimately about money - exploiting people is very cost effective. Race, gender, ethnicity, age, physical characteristics: all have been used as reasons to exploit people for economic advantage. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29337 Location: La La Land
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:03 am Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
I realize this runs contrary to the race-narrative divide, which certainly is a factor, the cultural divide in the country and other Western post-industrial nations is largely driven by a growing chasm between in both wealth and hope between the haves and have-nots.
Racism is a derivative of classism. Race has been used as a justification to create an underclass out of "others."
Paula Dean lamented for the days when black men in white jackets served white people at country clubs that said black men could never join or even attend an event at (except as a servant).
Plenty of "wall builders" have no problem with Blanca cleaning their house and watching their kids for slave wages, or hiring non-union Diego off the books on construction jobs to keep costs down.
It's when the white-coated black men, the Blancas and Diegos want economic parity and the opportunity for their kids to get out of the underclass where you get problems.
The tell? Get a group of West LA, BLM-supporting cafe liberals together and bring up paying reparations to African Americans for slavery. You'd think you were at a meeting of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
It's ultimately about money - exploiting people is very cost effective. Race, gender, ethnicity, age, physical characteristics: all have been used as reasons to exploit people for economic advantage.
Between redlining and slavery. The systemic racism in our country has produced humongous socioeconomic differences between the races. For example. The average black person makes 60% of the income of the average white person. Yet the average black person has 5% of the wealth of the average white person. Because most wealth between generations is passed via property.
I could fill a page of this thread talking about systemic racism. For example, there are studies where sociologists invented a crime. And invented evidence. And tested 1 group of people with a lighter skinned suspect. And tested another group of people with a darker skinned suspect. And I'm betting you can guess what the results were. EVERYTHING was the same, except the complexion of the suspect. But the darker skinned person was thought of as guilty at a much higher %.
Long story short. Income and wealth inequality is a problem. And systemic racism is a problem. Democrats propose policy to fix these problems (even though some have conflicting interests). And Republicans propose policy that make these problems worse. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
CBS's Catherine Herridge: "Why are African Americans still dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country?"
Trump: "And so are white people, so are white people. What a terrible question to ask. So are white people, more white people, by the way, more white people."
I was interviewing a new client by phone today and I asked her if she had any other allergies in addition to the ones we had just discussed. She said, "Does Trump count as an allergy?" I said, "I'm pretty sure he's worse than any allergy." We all laughed, but...
I did not watch Trump's 5 pm "press conference" in the Rose Garden. But twitter consensus is that he had an unhinged, non-sensical, stream of consciousness, campaign rally style angry word salad attacking Biden, China, the press, etc.. Apparently he was also very sweaty and unwell looking and sounding.
So it's another day that ends in Y!
Quote:
Brian J. Karem @BrianKarem
NOW: @realDonaldTrump says the European Union was formed to take advantage of the U.S.
Quote:
Kaitlan Collins @kaitlancollins
After all three cable networks carried Biden's speech live earlier, President Trump goes off topic in the Rose Garden to hit Biden on China and infrastructure, while repeating false claims about testing and asking "Where is Hunter, by the way?"
Quote:
Eric Schmeltzer @JustSchmeltzer
Seems to me that Trump saw Biden getting wall-to-wall cable coverage for his speech today, and got worried.
So, he called his own presser, aiming to outdo Biden.
And it seems like he's failing at that, badly.
Am I missing anything?
Quote:
Susan Glasser @sbg1
This is incoherent, rambling, and very very worrisome.
The President cannot even articulate a single sentence that makes sense or is passingly true.
I know we're inured to a lot, but still...
Quote:
Andrew Feinberg @AndrewFeinberg
Asked whether he considers himself an underdog in this election,
@realDonaldTrump begins rambling about boats and bikers.
Quote:
Sam Stein @samstein
I think Trump just said mayors of some Democratic run cities wouldn’t mind if terrorists blew up their cities.
Quote:
Maggie Haberman @maggieNYT
This event is another data point as to why Trump aides have been keeping him from doing briefings. He can’t even stay on the topic of Hong Kong. It’s just a grievance session.
Quote:
David Axelrod @davidaxelrod
All pretense gone.
COVID-19 took his rallies away so he’s moved the show over to the WH.
Nine points down, he’s just on a rant.
Quote:
Yamiche Alcindor @Yamiche
President Trump just now at the WH said: "Think of this: If we didn't do testing — instead of testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing we'd have half the cases. If we did another — you cut that in half, you'd have yet again half of that."
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject:
angrypuppy wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
Quote:
The results of the 2016 presidential election in the United States illustrate a broader reality, which is that the gap between the cosmopolitan city and the economic periphery has become the new social class divide across the West. Where people live, as much as how they live, now increasingly determines their beliefs, values, and sense of tribal belonging.
...Changes in the global economy have spatially sorted voters into progressive urbanites with a large stake in a new technological future, globalization, and liberal values, and the left-behind who see their own identity and economic prospects threatened as never before. Rural areas and small towns may have always been more culturally conservative, but this divide, combined with the resentment generated by economic and wealth inequality, has triggered the most prominent recent political explosions across the West....
The Roots of Regional Resentment: Globalization, Crisis, and Austerity
While much attention has focused on differences in values between progressive cosmopolitanism and provincial conservativism, the fact remains that conservative values, at least on matters of lifestyle and religion (if not on matters of national identity), are either stable or in decline. This makes the populist insurgency an anomaly, for a constant cannot explain a change.
What has changed in the last generation, however, is the level of economic and wealth inequality between regions of Western countries. As Joan Rosés and Nikolaus Wolf have shown, regional divergence began in the 1980s with globalization and deindustrialization, and it has deepened in recent years....
Why Now?
Thinking in terms of the new regional class divide also solves one of the perennial mysteries of the populist wave in Europe and the U.S.: Why is the disruption happening now, rather than a decade ago, at the height of the global financial crisis? The answer emerges very quickly when looking at how different regions have recovered—or not recovered—in the decade since.
While the crisis proved only a temporary setback for cosmopolitan cities such as London, Amsterdam, and New York—whose financial sectors were bailed out by government largesse—blighted ex-industrial regions continue to struggle under the burden of austerity. In the decade from 2008 to 2016, while GDP per capita rose over 13 percent for California and New York, it rose on average less than 3 percent across other U.S. states. While GDP per capita rose over 6 percent in Greater London, they rose by only half that in the rest of the U.K., and while per capita GDP recovered in Greater Paris by 3 percent, in the rest of France incomes did not grow at all. It is a pattern found across Europe, from the Netherlands to Sweden to Denmark, Italy, Ireland, and Greece. Wealthy, cosmopolitan cities surge ahead, and the periphery gets left further and further behind.
I realize this runs contrary to the race-narrative divide, which certainly is a factor, the cultural divide in the country and other Western post-industrial nations is largely driven by a growing chasm between in both wealth and hope between the haves and have-nots.
Yes, real people are upset about real income inequality and job loss. The difference is liberals don't blame it on black people and brown people and the right DOES blame it on black and brown people. If people on the right were really voting based on income inequality they would have wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren (instead they are labeled scary socialists) or for Democrats with jobs programs (like Clinton and Biden). But. They. Don't. They keep voting for Republicans who promise them nothing except empty rhetoric and more contempt for the same people they hate. And why now? Because the white demographic is shrinking and the the black/brown demographic is growing. This scares them and they blame their very real dilemma on those "other" people. Because it's easier to keep blaming "other" people then educate themselves on the issues and vote for candidates based on issues. And they blame the big city liberals too -- because we educated ourselves and joined in the new economy not based on the old labor model. The resent "our" success. Again, Democrats always place education, jobs and job retraining at the top of their agenda. But who pays attention and then votes based on that?
We'll see if Biden's message gets through. Because he's definitely trying to get the through to the huge middle class and working class. Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House have passed dozens and dozens of bills that would address many middle class economic concerns, but McConnell hasn't let any of them come up for a vote. Do Republican voters suffering from income inequality and job loss blame McConnell? Hell no. They would rather blame the evil Nancy Pelosi because the right-wing propaganda world tells them she is the boogie man. Their anger and resentment is legitimate, but what they do with it is completely irrational and based not on facts but on fear and loathing.
To reiterate my earlier point, the solution is to treat the root cause of the white underclass. I liked this article as it explained that the twin thrust into nationalistic politics and cultural divide is the result of economic conditions. Those residing in the rural or post-industrial regions were the ones the voted for Brexit; they hadn't participated in the economic gains in the urban areas and this coincides with the feeling that ruling class and foreigners were reaping the gains. Worse, there are workers in the UK that have been displaced via EU globalization. This is a direct parallel to what has happened in the United States, after years of factory closures and offshoring. Though any answer requires a comprehensive analysis beyond the scope of my post, I do believe that the root cause (economic) has to be addressed, or we'll see more extreme nationalist politics in the US and any other post-industrial Western nation.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that the white underclass in the stricken areas throughout the US are willing to embrace socialism or the liberal platform of either Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. That runs counter to the core belief of this entire demographic, which has sustained for at least two or three generations. Unfortunately this class is more likely to follow the beat of a crypto-fascist drum, which targets groups that they blame for the downfall. The politics of hate have made them angry at having to share the pie, while the pie itself has continued to shrink in size.
The issues of race and culture and class intermix, but are separate issues. In particular, rural white folks, and their more urban industrialized laborer brethren, have always been racist as a group, even when times were "good". Their loss of a share of the wealth in large part hinges on their belief in their culture and lifestyle and intransigence to change. This is why WV coal miners just want the mines to be open and coal to be at high enough prices and don't much care what makes all that happen (and they unionized in the first place to keep minority scabs from getting their jobs, and their unions kept minorities sidelined). Their entire worldview is based on the idea that people like them are the real backbone of America and they are having their livelihood stolen from them, rather than mechanization and technology and progress. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Agreed, Omar. Culture, race and class do intermix, but I feel that each facet deserves to be examined into the discussion. Particularly if that facet can be addressed so that we do not repeat this national nightmare.
Ginsburg is hospitalized for a possible infection. Doesn't sound very serious.
Now, imagine the very worst, imagine that Biden wins and Ginsburg is "unavailable" immediately after the election. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject:
angrypuppy wrote:
Agreed, Omar. Culture, race and class do intermix, but I feel that each facet deserves to be examined into the discussion. Particularly if that facet can be addressed so that we do not repeat this national nightmare.
Agreed. The hardest part of dealing with the class related stuff is that their racism has them identifying with the wealthy class instead of with their brothers of another color. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67708 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Back when the world appreciated civil discourse:
Baldwin is one of the first serious authors I read. Though his opinion lost the debate Buckley is a very impressive orator. Great listen. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67708 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Ginsburg is hospitalized for a possible infection. Doesn't sound very serious.
Now, imagine the very worst, imagine that Biden wins and Ginsburg is "unavailable" immediately after the election.
Well, in that case, Operation Pack The Court begins.
Meant in a very loving way. Don't worry, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a tough old bird. She'll answer when the call is made. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
You just know that if the Dems win both the White House and Senate, and then the worst happens and Ginsburg drops dead on January 18th, the repubs will manage to have a new justice sworn in by January 20th.
You just know that if the Dems win both the White House and Senate, and then the worst happens and Ginsburg drops dead on January 18th, the repubs will manage to have a new justice sworn in by January 20th.
If I'm not mistaken isn't the new Congress/Senate sworn in on January 3?
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29337 Location: La La Land
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject:
angrypuppy wrote:
Agreed, Omar. Culture, race and class do intermix, but I feel that each facet deserves to be examined into the discussion.Particularly if that facet can be addressed so that we do not repeat this national nightmare.
FWIW, I do think the bolded is a false choice. Racism and classism can be identified individually AND addressed with the same conversation and similar public policy.
For example, a quote from a well written MLK Jr. article
Quote:
But he’s not condemning such people. He’s urging compassion for them. He says that in his conversations with his segregationist white prison guards in the Birmingham jail, he drew them out, urging them to
talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, “Now, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. [laughter] You’re just as poor as Negroes.”
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29337 Location: La La Land
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:01 am Post subject:
I'm willing to shut up about the heavily woven intersectionality of racism and classism if that means 1 more vote against Trump though. Getting him out of office is worth more than discussing the overbearing institutional racism at this point.
If acknowledging and discussing systemic, American racism turns off potential white Biden voters. The discussion, sadly, isn't worth having right now. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Agreed, Omar. Culture, race and class do intermix, but I feel that each facet deserves to be examined into the discussion.Particularly if that facet can be addressed so that we do not repeat this national nightmare.
FWIW, I do think the bolded is a false choice. Racism and classism can be identified individually AND addressed with the same conversation and similar public policy.
For example, a quote from a well written MLK Jr. article
Quote:
But he’s not condemning such people. He’s urging compassion for them. He says that in his conversations with his segregationist white prison guards in the Birmingham jail, he drew them out, urging them to
talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, “Now, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. [laughter] You’re just as poor as Negroes.”
It is not a false choice, it is an attempt to describe our current political climate in terms of economic struggle of one of the underclasses.
I'm suggesting that the rise of Trump is closely linked to the white underclass that energized his campaign with their collective anger. That anger has multiple root causes, but one of the most prominent but least examined roots is the economic trajectory (loss of factory jobs in manufacturing-based communities, underemployement, offshoring, etc.) of that white underclass. If the root cause continues to be ignored, the logical conclusion is that the Trump movement will continue without Trump. Here's where it gets scary: Trump is an obvious buffoon, and his followers can be categorized as a cult of personality. A vacuum in the GOP will appear after Trump's seemingly imminent departure. Trump may eventually be replaced by an opportunist who is more charismatic, more astute, and more evil.
It's high time that we look at what's motivating this crowd. In my view, one of the major drivers (perhaps the strongest driver) is based in economics. A set of policies should address that root cause, which in turn will reduce the anger of that demographic.
I realize it sounds compassionate to the white underclass and that isn't in vogue when you consider the current protests. But in my opinion, we as a society are on a very dangerous path, one that will result in a further fragmentation of our society.
I am not trying to invalidate the harmful effects on people of income inequality, or job loss due to globalization, mechanization etc. And I believe the Democratic party needs to formulate policies to address those issues.
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