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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Evidence of Trump campaign colluding for Kanye:
| Quote: | Cameron Joseph @cam_joseph
A little update — The GOP lawyer who helped @kanyewest get on the ballot in Wisconsin is actively working for @realDonaldTrump's campaign. She's the lawyer of record in their lawsuit to try to get a @prioritiesUSA anti-Trump ad pulled. Original story: |
link |
Well, the Trump camp certainly thinks Kanye's run will help them and hurt the Dems.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign. |
Most. But if it's a tight race, say 78,000 votes over 3 states combined?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:24 am Post subject: |
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CNN: Trump still not grasping the severity of the pandemic, source tells CNN
| Quote: | President Donald Trump was still struggling to fully grasp the severity of the coronavirus pandemic during a task force meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday, a source familiar with the meeting told CNN.
"He still doesn't get it," the source said. "He does not get it."
Trump's meeting with the task force in the Oval Office was his first in-depth meeting with the panel of his top health experts since April. Trump tweeted photos of the task force members, some wearing face masks, surrounding the Resolute Desk Tuesday afternoon.
During the meeting, officials on the task force continued to have trouble convincing Trump to take the pandemic more seriously, the source said. |
| Quote: | As some members of the task force tried to stress the dire nature of the situation to the President, the source said Trump repeatedly attempted to change the subject.
"He starts talking about something else," the source said. |
| Quote: | | But the source said Trump's mood was noticeably less jovial during the meeting. In past task force meetings with Trump, the source said the President appeared to be in a much more jocular mood. That was not the case in the Oval Office on Tuesday evening. |
| Quote: | On "Fox and Friends" Wednesday morning, Trump highlighted the US' economic return and once again claimed that the virus was going to "go away."
"We've done it right," Trump said of the US' handling of the pandemic. Now (our economic bounceback) looks like a very strong 'V,' based on the all of the numbers we're getting."
He added: "My view is the schools should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away." |
It is what it is. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
It's ironic to have cognitive issues about cognitive issues...
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Wilt
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign. |
Most. But if it's a tight race, say 78,000 votes over 3 states combined? |
I'd say whatever the number of people that will be duped will be outnumbered greatly by people who didn't vote in 2016 in those three states and now realize it was a mistake.
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
With all due respect, this thread is morphing into an echo chamber. Surf is right, one should be concerned about Biden's health, just as one should be concerned about Trump's mental health. In fact, that underscores the importance of picking the right VP for the ticket, and that is likely one of the reasons why Biden is being very careful during the selection process.
I think almost everyone who contributes to this thread hates Trump. Why should anyone be free to contribute observations on Trump's poor mental health, but when someone points out Biden's age and possible frailty, they are immediately dismissed as a tool of the GOP or a Bernie Bro?
My problem is that this thread should be the exchange of information, with observations and ideas as the currency. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Evidence of Trump campaign colluding for Kanye:
| Quote: | Cameron Joseph @cam_joseph
A little update — The GOP lawyer who helped @kanyewest get on the ballot in Wisconsin is actively working for @realDonaldTrump's campaign. She's the lawyer of record in their lawsuit to try to get a @prioritiesUSA anti-Trump ad pulled. Original story: |
link |
Well, the Trump camp certainly thinks Kanye's run will help them and hurt the Dems. |
It's a cynical ploy. Right now 538 has Biden ahead by 7.5% in Wisconsin. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
With all due respect, this thread is morphing into an echo chamber. Surf is right, one should be concerned about Biden's health, just as one should be concerned about Trump's mental health. In fact, that underscores the importance of picking the right VP for the ticket, and that is likely one of the reasons why Biden is being very careful during the selection process.
I think almost everyone who contributes to this thread hates Trump. Why should anyone be free to contribute observations on Trump's poor mental health, but when someone points out Biden's age and possible frailty, they are immediately dismissed as a tool of the GOP or a Bernie Bro?
My problem is that this thread should be the exchange of information, with observations and ideas as the currency. |
Isn't the exchange of ideas inclusive of a reaction to expressed ideas? Especially if those ideas are not useful to the group, useful to the opponents of the group, and follow a trail of other such "concerns" expressed by someone claiming membership in the same group?
A big part of the Russian propaganda success in the last election was their ability to get people to attack the candidate from her left. Especially those who had wanted a different primary candidate.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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We had a vigorous debate about Biden's positives and negatives during the entire primary. Most people here did NOT have Biden as their first choice. Many of us voted for other candidates. We discussed Biden's age relative to being in touch with today's issues. I voted for Warren, and Biden and Bernie were my last two choices because I didn't want another old white guy president. But that's not what happened. I moved on. I will compare and contrast Biden and Trump where appropriate, but their mental states aren't even in the same star system.
But we didn't discuss Biden's so-called "cognitive decline" because he has not demonstrated cognitive decline. He has demonstrated his career long proclivity for making gaffs, mispeaking and long pauses, which are in part due to his stutter and in part Joe being Joe. But this is not new, nor a major concern. Is this an older version of Biden? Of course it is. So what?
Trump is in a completely different universe when it comes to ACTUAL cognitive decline.
To ask, well why can't we talk about them both?
Because to even put the cognitive/mental decline issue out there as if "both men have the same issue" is fundamentally dishonest. Just like comparing Clinton and Trump as both being the "lesser or two evils" was fundamentally dishonest. And it just so happens to coincide with Russian propaganda and Trump/GOP talking points.
Both are white men over 70. That's really ALL they have in common.
Concern trolling over Biden's mental state is just that -- concern trolling.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:09 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Wilt
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13731
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
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One wonders if the people that claim to be on our side bringing up Biden's "cognitive decline" would be bringing up their preferred candidate's recent heart attack less than three months before the election. Well, I think we know the answer.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, that the United States ISN'T an anti Trump echo chamber is the bigger problem.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32755
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
With all due respect, this thread is morphing into an echo chamber. Surf is right, one should be concerned about Biden's health, just as one should be concerned about Trump's mental health. In fact, that underscores the importance of picking the right VP for the ticket, and that is likely one of the reasons why Biden is being very careful during the selection process.
I think almost everyone who contributes to this thread hates Trump. Why should anyone be free to contribute observations on Trump's poor mental health, but when someone points out Biden's age and possible frailty, they are immediately dismissed as a tool of the GOP or a Bernie Bro?
My problem is that this thread should be the exchange of information, with observations and ideas as the currency. |
Isn't the exchange of ideas inclusive of a reaction to expressed ideas? Especially if those ideas are not useful to the group, useful to the opponents of the group, and follow a trail of other such "concerns" expressed by someone claiming membership in the same group?
A big part of the Russian propaganda success in the last election was their ability to get people to attack the candidate from her left. Especially those who had wanted a different primary candidate. |
The concern is the proverbial "poisoning of the well" when ideas are dismissed if they align with the GOP. Some issues are obvious GOP propaganda, like voter fraud and the Nixonian fear-mongering on law and order. But Biden's health is a concern, and it isn't propaganda. We're reaching the point where political orthodoxy "trumps" reason. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign. |
Most people had never even heard of Jill Stein 2016, but I wouldn't say she had no impact in regards to Trump getting elected.
This race is going to be closer than people think, in my opinion. Everything is going to be a factor.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32755
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: |
He added: "My view is the schools should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away."
It is what it is. |
Here's hoping he does
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
With all due respect, this thread is morphing into an echo chamber. Surf is right, one should be concerned about Biden's health, just as one should be concerned about Trump's mental health. In fact, that underscores the importance of picking the right VP for the ticket, and that is likely one of the reasons why Biden is being very careful during the selection process.
I think almost everyone who contributes to this thread hates Trump. Why should anyone be free to contribute observations on Trump's poor mental health, but when someone points out Biden's age and possible frailty, they are immediately dismissed as a tool of the GOP or a Bernie Bro?
My problem is that this thread should be the exchange of information, with observations and ideas as the currency. |
Isn't the exchange of ideas inclusive of a reaction to expressed ideas? Especially if those ideas are not useful to the group, useful to the opponents of the group, and follow a trail of other such "concerns" expressed by someone claiming membership in the same group?
A big part of the Russian propaganda success in the last election was their ability to get people to attack the candidate from her left. Especially those who had wanted a different primary candidate. |
The concern is the proverbial "poisoning of the well" when ideas are dismissed if they align with the GOP. Some issues are obvious GOP propaganda, like voter fraud and the Nixonian fear-mongering on law and order. But Biden's health is a concern, and it isn't propaganda. We're reaching the point where political orthodoxy "trumps" reason. |
Of course it is propaganda, and of course it is designed to poison the well. We've reached the point where the existential nature of the election trumps post primary sniping.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, that the United States ISN'T an anti Trump echo chamber is the bigger problem. |
One person's actual cognitive decline is a threat to the survival of our Democracy and the other person's isn't. |
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Wilt
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Posts: 13731
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign. |
Most people had never even heard of Jill Stein 2016, but I wouldn't say she had no impact in regards to Trump getting elected.
This race is going to be closer than people think, in my opinion. Everything is going to be a factor. |
Yeah, but Jill Stein's candidacy wasn't an obvious ploy. The whole rationale behind Kanye's "candidacy" is to assume black people are stupid and that they will vote for a crazy person solely because he's black. But if you're a rational black person, you're already aware of it and you know it's a joke. A few will be duped, but I don't think it'll make a difference between win and loss.
Sure, Jill Stein voters, Johnson voters, and non-voters (the latter being the most significant by far) played a role in the 2016 disaster.
_________________
¡Hala Madrid!
Last edited by Wilt on Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, that the United States ISN'T an anti Trump echo chamber is the bigger problem. |
One person's actual cognitive decline is a threat to the survival of our Democracy and the other person's isn't. |
It's amazing if you watch Biden talk at length and without notes on a wide range of complex issues, delving deep into detail and nuance, and come away with the idea that because he occasionally loses his place, misspeaks, stutters, or loses a train of thought amidst a bunch of them, that somehow it is a big problem.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy. |
Your cards have been on the table at all times, and you have no need to justify yourself to me sir. We simply disagree.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Quote: | | Everything has to go right in this election. |
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something. |
What should it tell me? |
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can. |
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease. |
And that's exactly why helping to instill and further that perception is counter productive. It's not rocket science, and as npz said, "you're not an idiot". |
With all due respect, this thread is morphing into an echo chamber. Surf is right, one should be concerned about Biden's health, just as one should be concerned about Trump's mental health. In fact, that underscores the importance of picking the right VP for the ticket, and that is likely one of the reasons why Biden is being very careful during the selection process.
I think almost everyone who contributes to this thread hates Trump. Why should anyone be free to contribute observations on Trump's poor mental health, but when someone points out Biden's age and possible frailty, they are immediately dismissed as a tool of the GOP or a Bernie Bro?
My problem is that this thread should be the exchange of information, with observations and ideas as the currency. |
Again, this isn't rocket science. If Surf is doing it here, he is likely doing it elsewhere. More importantly, others are as well. If someone thinks Biden's cognitive abilities are something to hammer on, they have not been paying (bleep) attention . . . at all. It's like pointing out that the water coming out of a firehose might be a little too warm when trying to stop your house from burning down.
As far as the last part, peopke can say whatever the hell they want in here as far as I am concerned. But as I have said to the hit and runners who come in to complain about this thread, don't expect what is said to be immune from rebuttal.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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^ There are 160,000 Americans dead and counting from a pandemic while all across the globe the majority of nations rich to poor, small to large have managed to eradicate the virus or control its spread. By November 3rd there will be 200,00 dead Americans conservatively. He will politicize the distribution of a vaccine to try and crush political dissent from blue state governors.
The man is eroding every check on his power and openly "jokes" about becoming president for life like his heroes Putin and Xi. The GOP is complicit because they think to a man and woman that non-Republican leadership is illegitimate and that rich, old conservative white people know better than the unwashed masses.
The only slim recourse that exists to halt the country's descent into fascism or a military coup is voting for every Democrat you can and hoping they defeat Trump and the GOP. If that effort fails, it's increasingly more unnecessary pain, premature death, and state violence.
That's it. There's no middle ground, no other choice. It sucks that it's come down to this, but if you have to grin and bear some Democratic Party agitprop for four more months while children are being forced back to school during a plague to appease the ego of a moronic baby fascist, then I don't think the choice should be that hard.
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Under New Management |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, that the United States ISN'T an anti Trump echo chamber is the bigger problem. |
One person's actual cognitive decline is a threat to the survival of our Democracy and the other person's isn't. |
It's amazing if you watch Biden talk at length and without notes on a wide range of complex issues, delving deep into detail and nuance, and come away with the idea that because he occasionally loses his place, misspeaks, stutters, or loses a train of thought amidst a bunch of them, that somehow it is a big problem. |
Somebody posted a zoom video they took of me talking about a particular topic the other day. I was shocked at how many times I hesitated while looking for the precise word I wanted. That's often what Biden is doing (Obama used to do it too). And it's completely different than being a babbling fool making (bleep) up and spewing word salad nonsense and lies on the way to dozens of incomplete sentences the way Trump does in virtually EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC APPEARANCE.
Good lord. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | I'm sure they think that, but they're almost certainly wrong. Black people are aware that Kanye is a joke and they won't jeopardize their future on a joke campaign. |
Most people had never even heard of Jill Stein 2016, but I wouldn't say she had no impact in regards to Trump getting elected.
This race is going to be closer than people think, in my opinion. Everything is going to be a factor. |
Yeah, but Jill Stein's candidacy wasn't an obvious ploy. The whole rationale behind Kanye's "candidacy" is to assume black people are stupid and that they will vote for a crazy person solely because he's black. But if you're a rational black person, you're already aware of it and you know it's a joke. A few will be duped, but I don't think it'll make a difference between win and loss.
Sure, Jill Stein voters, Johnson voters, and non-voters (the latter being the most significant by far) played a role in the 2016 disaster. |
First of all, you have more faith in the populace's ability to reason than I do. And I don't say that in a dismissive fashion at all. It's a good thing.
Secondly, this actually isn't about him running as a black man at all from my perspective. This is about a guy who is a big time celebrity who remains popular with people of a range demographics despite the fact that he is batturd crazy.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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