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Omar Little
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 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Bol wrote: | | There's no guarantee that an attempt at court packing would work, and personally I think it would be folly. Do it and then what, every time the power in Washington shifts, more justices get added to the court until Supreme Court justices number in the hundreds? There needs to be a better solution. Something has to be done to try to address the underlying issues of ignorance and hostility that are causing this sense of desperation in the first place. |
This was the rationale behind not dropping the filibuster to get Obamacare with a public option through. If we get rid of the filibuster than it’s gone when the GOP runs the senate. Guess what? They were never going to honor it if it became an impediment. And make no mistake they would pack the court if they held both houses of congress and had a minority on the court.
You pack the court and then you add PR and DC (and maybe split California into two powerful blue states), and you make sure they don’t win presidencies and senate majorities with the minority vote.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: |
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ELECTION COUNTDOWN
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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David Korn, Mother Jones: To Honor Ginsburg, Democrats Have One Choice: Go Nuclear. They will have to bring a bazooka to the GOP’s gun fight.
| Quote: | | It’s a popular sentiment on the left: Don’t mourn, organize. But with the death of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, that won’t be enough. Ginsburg, a hero of female empowerment and of the Supreme Court, deserves much mourning. But Democrats and progressives can waste no time prepping for the battle royale that lies ahead. After all, it took Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell mere minutes after the news of RBG’s passing to declare that the GOP-controlled Senate will vote on whoever Donald Trump sends its way to fill the Supreme Court vacancy—a direct eff-you to the Democrats after McConnell in 2016 refused to consider President Barack Obama’s SCOTUS nominee Merrick Garland with the phony-baloney argument that the Senate should not consider new justices during an election year. So yes, Dems will have to organize, but they must do more: They have to get ready to rumble. |
| Quote: | It will be bare-knuckles politics from the right. Do or die. By any means necessary. To replace Ginsburg with a young right-wing extremist. And for the Democrats to have a chance of thwarting them, they must realize that this fight is not only a matter of persuasion. They will not win by writing well-reasoned op-eds. Cable host tirades will be of little use. Panel discussions will be irrelevant. Clever ads highlighting GOP hypocrisy won’t do the trick. Angry editorials in the New York Times won’t help. Not even a freckin’ David Brooks column (“conservatives should realize they have an interest in preserving democratic norms!“) will do them any good. Passionate speeches on the floor of the US Senate? Fuggedabout it.
This is about power. |
| Quote: | The win-over-reasonable-Republicans-with-reason strategy is weak sauce. That leaves the Democrats with one other choice: total political warfare. The Senate’s Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer—with the backing of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi—needs to threaten massive retaliation. Should McConnell try to ram a Trump nominee through, Schumer ought to vow that the Democrats, if they win back the Senate and Biden is elected president, will demolish the filibuster, which will allow the Senate to proceed to make Washington, DC, a state (two more senators, who are likely to be Democrats!) and that they will move to add two or four more seats to the Supreme Court. (There is nothing in the Constitution that limits the court’s size to the current nine justices.) In other words: They will implement a Republican nightmare (which, as it happens, can be justified on arguments of equity and fairness).
Schumer should utter this declaration publicly to lock the Democrats in. Of course, this could further propel Republicans to the polls. But it might do the same with Democrats. (The stakes in this election are now higher than they already were.) Crucially, there would need to be buy-in from Biden. The veteran Washington player will have to put aside his somewhat admirable (if misguided) desire to return to the older and more genteel means of legislating and compromising in the nation’s capital. But with conservative voters fired up by the dream of replacing Ginsburg with a thirtysomething right-wing firebrand, the Dems will have to counter with more than a this-isn’t-fair argument. Bring a gun to a knife fight? They will need a bazooka. Sorry if that sounds violent. But, as one sage person likes to say, we are in a fight for the nation’s soul. And sometimes you don’t get to choose the weapons or levels of intensity. |
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:09 am Post subject: |
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F#ck 'em up...however's necessary...the Repugnicants, that is.
They are contemptible & odious beings, who take every chance they get to screw us...the ones who don't bow down to them and/or line their pockets.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Every time I think of the people who said in 2016 that the choice between the candidates was choosing the "lesser of two evils" it makes my head explode. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Every time I think of the people who said in 2016 that the choice between the candidates was choosing the "lesser of two evils" it makes my head explode. |
Makes me want them to explode.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | David Korn, Mother Jones: To Honor Ginsburg, Democrats Have One Choice: Go Nuclear. They will have to bring a bazooka to the GOP’s gun fight.
| Quote: | | It’s a popular sentiment on the left: Don’t mourn, organize. But with the death of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, that won’t be enough. Ginsburg, a hero of female empowerment and of the Supreme Court, deserves much mourning. But Democrats and progressives can waste no time prepping for the battle royale that lies ahead. After all, it took Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell mere minutes after the news of RBG’s passing to declare that the GOP-controlled Senate will vote on whoever Donald Trump sends its way to fill the Supreme Court vacancy—a direct eff-you to the Democrats after McConnell in 2016 refused to consider President Barack Obama’s SCOTUS nominee Merrick Garland with the phony-baloney argument that the Senate should not consider new justices during an election year. So yes, Dems will have to organize, but they must do more: They have to get ready to rumble. |
| Quote: | It will be bare-knuckles politics from the right. Do or die. By any means necessary. To replace Ginsburg with a young right-wing extremist. And for the Democrats to have a chance of thwarting them, they must realize that this fight is not only a matter of persuasion. They will not win by writing well-reasoned op-eds. Cable host tirades will be of little use. Panel discussions will be irrelevant. Clever ads highlighting GOP hypocrisy won’t do the trick. Angry editorials in the New York Times won’t help. Not even a freckin’ David Brooks column (“conservatives should realize they have an interest in preserving democratic norms!“) will do them any good. Passionate speeches on the floor of the US Senate? Fuggedabout it.
This is about power. |
| Quote: | The win-over-reasonable-Republicans-with-reason strategy is weak sauce. That leaves the Democrats with one other choice: total political warfare. The Senate’s Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer—with the backing of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi—needs to threaten massive retaliation. Should McConnell try to ram a Trump nominee through, Schumer ought to vow that the Democrats, if they win back the Senate and Biden is elected president, will demolish the filibuster, which will allow the Senate to proceed to make Washington, DC, a state (two more senators, who are likely to be Democrats!) and that they will move to add two or four more seats to the Supreme Court. (There is nothing in the Constitution that limits the court’s size to the current nine justices.) In other words: They will implement a Republican nightmare (which, as it happens, can be justified on arguments of equity and fairness).
Schumer should utter this declaration publicly to lock the Democrats in. Of course, this could further propel Republicans to the polls. But it might do the same with Democrats. (The stakes in this election are now higher than they already were.) Crucially, there would need to be buy-in from Biden. The veteran Washington player will have to put aside his somewhat admirable (if misguided) desire to return to the older and more genteel means of legislating and compromising in the nation’s capital. But with conservative voters fired up by the dream of replacing Ginsburg with a thirtysomething right-wing firebrand, the Dems will have to counter with more than a this-isn’t-fair argument. Bring a gun to a knife fight? They will need a bazooka. Sorry if that sounds violent. But, as one sage person likes to say, we are in a fight for the nation’s soul. And sometimes you don’t get to choose the weapons or levels of intensity. |
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Korn echoes so much of that sentiment about fighting harder followed by basically a meaningless alternative. Yeah, Mitch is sure gonna rethink putting a justice on there who might just give the GOP a dictatorship (including the ability to invalidate Democratic senate wins) that passes as radical.
I agree the democrats should do a lot of things if they get power, but threatening to do them now is just as feckless as an op ed. It doesn’t change the strategy and it likely doesn’t help at the polls.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Collins says the vote should be postponed.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Collins says the vote should be postponed. |
I wonder if they did an internal head count, figured only 3 Republicans would dissent (Murkowski, Romney, Collins), so gave her permission to act out the charade knowing it won't matter.
ding ding ding |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Collins says the vote should be postponed. |
I wonder if they did an internal head count, figured only 3 Republicans would dissent (Murkowski, Romney, Collins), so gave her permission to act out the charade knowing it won't matter.
ding ding ding |
Yep.
Graham says they want to do this before the election, so in less than 50 days. The same guy who said he wouldn't support an election year nomination.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Collins says the vote should be postponed. |
I wonder if they did an internal head count, figured only 3 Republicans would dissent (Murkowski, Romney, Collins), so gave her permission to act out the charade knowing it won't matter.
ding ding ding |
Yep.
Graham says they want to do this before the election, so in less than 50 days. The same guy who said he wouldn't support an election year nomination. |
The hypocrisy from Republicans is rage inducing.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Let's hope that all that time spent in Washington for this political stunt will eventually hurt people like Graham, who is in a surprisingly competitive race in South Carolina.
Three Republicans is all we will get. Pence will be the tie breaker. The reason people like Gardner and Tillis are sticking with McConnell is because they will lose anyway.
The Democrats have to present a united front, expose the GOP hypocrisy, and not make any explicit threats. A couple senators did mention the filibuster and packing the court, but I don't think it's a good idea to do it overtly. Schumer did it correctly by saying that "nothing is off the table."
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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One of the few positives -- Democratic base "enthusiasm" is skyrocketing:
| Quote: | Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
NEW: ActBlue has taken in $56 million and counting for Democratic candidates and causes since Ginsburg’s death was announced last night. |
And as of 6 pm it's $72 million. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Collins says the vote should be postponed. |
I wonder if they did an internal head count, figured only 3 Republicans would dissent (Murkowski, Romney, Collins), so gave her permission to act out the charade knowing it won't matter.
ding ding ding |
Yep. Total charade.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | Collins says the vote should be postponed. |
I wonder if they did an internal head count, figured only 3 Republicans would dissent (Murkowski, Romney, Collins), so gave her permission to act out the charade knowing it won't matter.
ding ding ding |
Yep. Total charade. |
Hope you are right. I have so little trust in anything Murkowski or Collins says. I wouldn't be surprised if a new judge is appointed a week or 2 from now and they both vote to support it.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | One of the few positives -- Democratic base "enthusiasm" is skyrocketing:
| Quote: | Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
NEW: ActBlue has taken in $56 million and counting for Democratic candidates and causes since Ginsburg’s death was announced last night. |
And as of 6 pm it's $72 million. |
The last 24 hours have been hugely motivating. Let’s hope it carries for the next six and a half weeks.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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trmiv
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| That’s on top of the record setting month they had in August where they out raised republicans by a significant amount. The war chest is quite huge at this point, I just hope it matters. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | | That’s on top of the record setting month they had in August where they out raised republicans by a significant amount. The war chest is quite huge at this point, I just hope it matters. |
It matters as much or more as to what it says about potential turnout. This is a turnout election. The Democratic side needs a huge turnout to overcome disadvantage in the electoral college, USPS delays and other GOP/Trump/Barr/Russian efforts to steal the election. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | That’s on top of the record setting month they had in August where they out raised republicans by a significant amount. The war chest is quite huge at this point, I just hope it matters. |
It matters as much or more as to what it says about potential turnout. This is a turnout election. The Democratic side needs a huge turnout to overcome disadvantage in the electoral college, USPS delays and other GOP/Trump/Barr/Russian efforts to steal the election. |
Agreed. It’s indicative how invested people are. People putting their money up tend to show at the polls.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | One of the few positives -- Democratic base "enthusiasm" is skyrocketing:
| Quote: | Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
NEW: ActBlue has taken in $56 million and counting for Democratic candidates and causes since Ginsburg’s death was announced last night. |
And as of 6 pm it's $72 million. |
And all of it far too late. Sigh. |
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trmiv
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | One of the few positives -- Democratic base "enthusiasm" is skyrocketing:
| Quote: | Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
NEW: ActBlue has taken in $56 million and counting for Democratic candidates and causes since Ginsburg’s death was announced last night. |
And as of 6 pm it's $72 million. |
And all of it far too late. Sigh. |
Why is it far too late? |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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538 today gives Biden a 77% chance of winning. That's the highest I have seen it. Pennsylvania is still the tipping point state to win the election for Biden and they give Biden a 77% chance of winning PA.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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The Siena/NYT polls from various battleground states that were released the other day also asked people who they trusted more to nominate the next SC Justice.
In all cases, voters trust Biden.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Selzer (rated A+) released a poll out of Iowa:
Greenfield 45
Ernst 42
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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2016, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas): “It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
2018, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.): “If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump’s term, and the primary process has started, we’ll wait to the next election.”
2016, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.): “I don’t think we should be moving on a nominee in the last year of this president’s term - I would say that if it was a Republican president.”
2016, Sen. David Perdue (R-Ga.): “The very balance of our nation’s highest court is in serious jeopardy. As a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, I will do everything in my power to encourage the president and Senate leadership not to start this process until we hear from the American people.”
2016, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa): “A lifetime appointment that could dramatically impact individual freedoms and change the direction of the court for at least a generation is too important to get bogged down in politics. The American people shouldn’t be denied a voice.”
2016, Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.): “The campaign is already under way. It is essential to the institution of the Senate and to the very health of our republic to not launch our nation into a partisan, divisive confirmation battle during the very same time the American people are casting their ballots to elect our next president.”
2016, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.): “In this election year, the American people will have an opportunity to have their say in the future direction of our country. For this reason, I believe the vacancy left open by Justice Antonin Scalia should not be filled until there is a new president.”
2016, Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.): “The Senate should not confirm a new Supreme Court justice until we have a new president.”
2016, Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Col.): “I think we’re too close to the election. The president who is elected in November should be the one who makes this decision.”
2016, Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio): “I believe the best thing for the country is to trust the American people to weigh in on who should make a lifetime appointment that could reshape the Supreme Court for generations. This wouldn’t be unusual. It is common practice for the Senate to stop acting on lifetime appointments during the last year of a presidential term, and it’s been nearly 80 years since any president was permitted to immediately fill a vacancy that arose in a presidential election year.”
2016, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.): “I strongly agree that the American people should decide the future direction of the Supreme Court by their votes for president and the majority party in the U.S. Senate.”
“The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president.”
Mitch McConnell, March 2016
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