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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject:

Pizza industry calls on Trump to strike down new calorie menu mandate.

Dominos is trying to get trump to strike this down from the ACA.... I hate how greedy every corporation in america is.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Pizza industry calls on Trump to strike down new calorie menu mandate.

Dominos is trying to get trump to strike this down from the ACA.... I hate how greedy every corporation in america is.


didn't they successfuly lobbied pizza to be classified as vegetable?
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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Pizza industry calls on Trump to strike down new calorie menu mandate.

Dominos is trying to get trump to strike this down from the ACA.... I hate how greedy every corporation in america is.


didn't they successfuly lobbied pizza to be classified as vegetable?


Haha I forgot about that. Yeah that applies to the schools of our children.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
the association wrote:
The defensive posture, the repeated criticisms and warnings about the intentions and actions of the so-called "liberal elite", the false equivalencies suggested between the adherents of both political parties, the unflagging efforts to knock-down anything related to the analysis of race relations in this country, and now the capitulation that there's really just two sides ... I guess we can drop this charade that nobody believed anyway ...


I'm not sure what you mean by that. However, as of right now, the Democrats have lost the electoral game, and they have lost it badly. The GOP controls all three branches of the federal government and most state governments. We may get a backlash in 2018, but you always expect that from a midterm election. If your response to that is more identity politics and more complaining about false equivalencies and the like, good luck with that. The Democrats need a message that goes beyond short-term anger about Trump and that goes beyond labeling everyone else as racists, sexists, homophobes, and Islamophobes.


"Make America Great Again" is identity politics and that did pretty well didn't it?

Quote:
The Democrats need a message that goes beyond short-term anger about Trump and that goes beyond labeling everyone else as racists, sexists, homophobes, and Islamophobes.


*sighs* If pointing out how utterly pervasive racism and sexism is considered a bad thing or somehow trying to prop up your self as "morally superior", then I guess the messaging could be changed to not have such an accusatory tone and avoid the inevitable defensiveness. Its still a problem that needs to be dealt with. I understand a lot of people flat out don't care, but that doesn't mean its should be swept aside in the name of trying to win elections.

Then again, maybe "The Democrats" should just follow Donny's lead and just lie and trot out a candidate that doesn't have as much baggage as Hillary. Its obvious standards have been lowered and people don't really care about policy or an actual ability to govern.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
governator wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Pizza industry calls on Trump to strike down new calorie menu mandate.

Dominos is trying to get trump to strike this down from the ACA.... I hate how greedy every corporation in america is.


didn't they successfuly lobbied pizza to be classified as vegetable?


Haha I forgot about that. Yeah that applies to the schools of our children.


they get federal $ subsidies cause of that classification
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

City_Dawg wrote:
"Make America Great Again" is identity politics and that did pretty well didn't it?


Not for the Democrats.

City_Dawg wrote:
"*sighs* If pointing out how utterly pervasive racism and sexism is considered a bad thing or somehow trying to prop up your self as "morally superior"


Straw man alert. You can talk about racism and sexism all you want. However, when you demonize everyone who has a different perspective, that's the problem. That is exactly what we are seeing from elements of the left. If you do not adopt the liberal worldview, you are "defensive" and "fragile." It's a load of BS. Those of us outside the echo chamber aren't cowering behind a sofa because we are scared of the moral superiority of a bunch of elitists. On the contrary, middle America is giving them the middle finger.

Sanders managed to get past most of this nonsense. His specific policies were too far out to gain sufficient traction to win the nomination, but his messaging struck a chord that cut through the morass of identity politics.

City_Dawg wrote:
" Its still a problem that needs to be dealt with. I understand a lot of people flat out don't care, but that doesn't mean its should be swept aside in the name of trying to win elections.


Sure, but at some point you need to win the elections in order to deal with the problem.
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67ShelbyGT
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
People are really going to need to be taught how racism doesn't need malicious intent in order to be perpetuated.


We can get into semantics and word choice, I suppose, but racism is not a benign term. When you call someone a racist, you aren't accusing them of having unconscious, innocuous prejudices. Maybe it doesn't require "malicious intent," but it is not the same thing as implicit bias. Yet that is precisely what that study assumed -- it equated "symbolic racism indicators" with "racism."

If someone wants to argue that there is a link between implicit bias on racial grounds and support for Trump, I'd believe it. White people are likely to have that sort of implicit bias (though it is common among all races), and white conservatives are less likely to critically evaluate their attitudes.


You are correct, racism is not a benign term. But that doesn't mean that people "benignly" engaging in it doesn't perpetuate it. There's nothing unconscious or innocuous behind "benign" racism. People are well aware of their own inner thoughts, regardless of whether they are willing to acknowledge them internally or express them publicly. Just because someone isn't aware of the social implications of their "benign" racism or their unwillingness to accept it doesn't mean that they are not contributing to it.

The important danger of that fact lies in the very excuse you lay out. It's the, "some of my best friends are (black, brown or whatever) people. I can't be racist" fallacy. Such thinking is just as problematic as overt racism and there is nothing unconscious or innocuous about it.


The John Rocker argument is one of my faves and is the drink of choice for the diet racists. Most POCs are now an expert at reading these since we've so much of this in carefully crafted words.

People bashed Rush when he explicitly went after McNabb. Many of us laughed as if it were the first time. Many mainstream analysts have been saying the same for years using coded words. Diet racism is highly prevalent and the bigger concern. It's not the ones in white sheets that worry me it's the CEOs in black suits who call the shots to keep certain color on top.
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Last edited by 67ShelbyGT on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject:

City_Dawg wrote:
People are really going to need to be taught how racism doesn't need malicious intent in order to be perpetuated.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
A Russian government think tank controlled by Vladimir Putin developed a plan to swing the 2016 U.S. presidential election to Donald Trump and undermine voters’ faith in the American electoral system, three current and four former U.S. officials told Reuters.

They described two confidential documents from the think tank as providing the framework and rationale for what U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded was an intensive effort by Russia to interfere with the Nov. 8 election. U.S. intelligence officials acquired the documents, which were prepared by the Moscow-based Russian Institute for Strategic Studies [en.riss.ru/], after the election.


Quote:
The first Russian institute document was a strategy paper written last June that circulated at the highest levels of the Russian government but was not addressed to any specific individuals.

It recommended the Kremlin launch a propaganda campaign on social media and Russian state-backed global news outlets to encourage U.S. voters to elect a president who would take a softer line toward Russia than the administration of then-President Barack Obama, the seven officials said.

A second institute document, drafted in October and distributed in the same way, warned that Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was likely to win the election. For that reason, it argued, it was better for Russia to end its pro-Trump propaganda and instead intensify its messaging about voter fraud to undermine the U.S. electoral system’s legitimacy and damage Clinton’s reputation in an effort to undermine her presidency, the seven officials said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-election-exclusive-idUSKBN17L2N3
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject:

67ShelbyGT wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
People are really going to need to be taught how racism doesn't need malicious intent in order to be perpetuated.


Just want to make sure i got this right. Say your family member or friend has a job interview and you say i hope you get the job your implying no else gets the job.so if someone of a different race is applying for the job you somewhat hope they fail for your friends benefit. So according to this thread it doesnt matter if your words werent malicious, youre now racist, because you've by definition have wished to keep another group down for the benfit of yourself or friend? Are people who dont care about race that just go about their day considered racists too?
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Huey Lewis & The News
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
67ShelbyGT wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
People are really going to need to be taught how racism doesn't need malicious intent in order to be perpetuated.


Just want to make sure i got this right. Say your family member or friend has a job interview and you say i hope you get the job your implying no else gets the job.so if someone of a different race is applying for the job you somewhat hope they fail for your friends benefit. So according to this thread it doesnt matter if your words werent malicious, youre now racist, because you've by definition have wished to keep another group down for the benfit of yourself or friend? Are people who dont care about race that just go about their day considered racists too?


Not even close, pizzagate.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
67ShelbyGT wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
People are really going to need to be taught how racism doesn't need malicious intent in order to be perpetuated.


Just want to make sure i got this right. Say your family member or friend has a job interview and you say i hope you get the job your implying no else gets the job.so if someone of a different race is applying for the job you somewhat hope they fail for your friends benefit. So according to this thread it doesnt matter if your words werent malicious, youre now racist, because you've by definition have wished to keep another group down for the benfit of yourself or friend? Are people who dont care about race that just go about their day considered racists too?


Welcome back Alex Jones.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject:

CNN anchors are trying their best to stay objective in regards to Bill O'Reilly. But its a tough situation. They will directly benefit from O'Reilly not being on Fox anymore.
But times like this I wonder what the conservative media sphere is talking about. I'm sure the infowars guy and Rush Limbaugh are defending Bill. Implying (if not flat out saying) they don't believe the accusers. And Fox probably isn't focusing on the story.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
CNN anchors are trying their best to stay objective in regards to Bill O'Reilly. But its a tough situation. They will directly benefit from O'Reilly not being on Fox anymore.
But times like this I wonder what the conservative media sphere is talking about. I'm sure the infowars guy and Rush Limbaugh are defending Bill. Implying (if not flat out saying) they don't believe the accusers. And Fox probably isn't focusing on the story.


What makes you believe conservatives will start to watch CNN again?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
CNN anchors are trying their best to stay objective in regards to Bill O'Reilly. But its a tough situation. They will directly benefit from O'Reilly not being on Fox anymore.
But times like this I wonder what the conservative media sphere is talking about. I'm sure the infowars guy and Rush Limbaugh are defending Bill. Implying (if not flat out saying) they don't believe the accusers. And Fox probably isn't focusing on the story.


What makes you believe conservatives will start to watch CNN again?


You have a good point. Fox will lose viewers who are die-hard Bill fans. But practically none of them will start watching CNN. And Fox will probably win back a good portion over time.
If/when there is some must-see TV news story in the future. They'll probably return to Fox despite their anger.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject:

I can see some viewers fleeing from FOX and watching more of the Blaze in the future. I don't see any of O'Reilly's viewers moving onto CNN or MSNBC.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject:

I was thinking advertisers would head to CNN. Since Fox News has a bad culture. But advertisers will go wherever the viewers are. All about the $.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
I can see some viewers fleeing from FOX and watching more of the Blaze in the future. I don't see any of O'Reilly's viewers moving onto CNN or MSNBC.


I don't think they'll have to worry about which show to watch next. Based on the average age of his audience, the typical O'Reilly viewer will be dead in a few years.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I can see some viewers fleeing from FOX and watching more of the Blaze in the future. I don't see any of O'Reilly's viewers moving onto CNN or MSNBC.


I don't think they'll have to worry about which show to watch next. Based on the average age of his audience, the typical O'Reilly viewer will be dead in a few years.




We laugh but this probably is the only viable solution. I make this joke to my friends all the time that we just need a generation to die out. Lets not forget the 1960s were not that far away. Many didnt want to desegregate or give "them" rights. Those people didnt just die or get cured after they signed the Civil Rights Act.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Quote:
A Russian government think tank controlled by Vladimir Putin developed a plan to swing the 2016 U.S. presidential election to Donald Trump and undermine voters’ faith in the American electoral system, three current and four former U.S. officials told Reuters.

They described two confidential documents from the think tank as providing the framework and rationale for what U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded was an intensive effort by Russia to interfere with the Nov. 8 election. U.S. intelligence officials acquired the documents, which were prepared by the Moscow-based Russian Institute for Strategic Studies [en.riss.ru/], after the election.


Quote:
The first Russian institute document was a strategy paper written last June that circulated at the highest levels of the Russian government but was not addressed to any specific individuals.

It recommended the Kremlin launch a propaganda campaign on social media and Russian state-backed global news outlets to encourage U.S. voters to elect a president who would take a softer line toward Russia than the administration of then-President Barack Obama, the seven officials said.

A second institute document, drafted in October and distributed in the same way, warned that Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was likely to win the election. For that reason, it argued, it was better for Russia to end its pro-Trump propaganda and instead intensify its messaging about voter fraud to undermine the U.S. electoral system’s legitimacy and damage Clinton’s reputation in an effort to undermine her presidency, the seven officials said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-election-exclusive-idUSKBN17L2N3


I read about this at least a month ago on my elitist, progressive, liberal, superior, leftist Twitter feed.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

Straw man alert. You can talk about racism and sexism all you want. However, when you demonize everyone who has a different perspective, that's the problem. That is exactly what we are seeing from elements of the left. If you do not adopt the liberal worldview, you are "defensive" and "fragile." It's a load of BS. Those of us outside the echo chamber aren't cowering behind a sofa because we are scared of the moral superiority of a bunch of elitists. On the contrary, middle America is giving them the middle finger.

Sanders managed to get past most of this nonsense. His specific policies were too far out to gain sufficient traction to win the nomination, but his messaging struck a chord that cut through the morass of identity politics.


I can't tell if you're being ironic or not, given that the word "fragile" is the epitome of conservatives demonizing liberals. "Fragile snowflake" is basically a conservative meme at this point, used as an ad hominem attack on any critic on the left who dares raise any point that the right disagrees with.

By the way, for every Middle American giving the left the finger for having the audacity to call them out on their biases, there is some well-meaning but privileged suburban (bleep) (*points to self*) who, via that messaging, becomes far more aware of the issues that face certain social groups. I'm not even white but I can say I'm far more attuned to the issues that women face, for example, thanks to this movement.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Exxon Seeks U.S. Waiver to Resume Russia Oil Venture - Exxon Mobil applied to Treasury for exemption to resume venture with Rosneft forged in 2012 by Rex Tillerson

Quid meet quo.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
I can't tell if you're being ironic or not, given that the word "fragile" is the epitome of conservatives demonizing liberals. "Fragile snowflake" is basically a conservative meme at this point, used as an ad hominem attack on any critic on the left who dares raise any point that the right disagrees with.

By the way, for every Middle American giving the left the finger for having the audacity to call them out on their biases, there is some well-meaning but privileged suburban (bleep) (*points to self*) who, via that messaging, becomes far more aware of the issues that face certain social groups. I'm not even white but I can say I'm far more attuned to the issues that women face, for example, thanks to this movement.


On the first point, you're just missing the context. CL posted something about "white fragility," which apparently is the idea that white people are unable to discuss racial issues neutrally (as opposed to some liberals, who evidently have no problems with self-perceived neutrality).

On the second point, that's great, and I mean that sincerely. However, for most people the reality is different. Early in this thread, we had a discussion of a psychological effect in which the result is exactly the opposite. People become more entrenched, not less entrenched. I don't remember the name. Anyway, we're seeing a lot of that these days.

I have to confront my own attitudes and biases on a regular basis, because I represent employees in discrimination suits. I have clients who are victims of discrimination because they are black, Hispanic, female, or Muslim. At the same time, I also encounter a lot of people who blame all of their own failures on discrimination. (Just last week, I had a potential client who was enraged that he was denied a promotion because he had poor communication skills, or at least that's what I think he was trying to say.) The point is that a lot of people -- Democrats and Republicans -- perceive a lot of the complaints as the latter rather than the former. This is why there are so many memes about political correctness and how people get offended by everything. Yet to some, this reaction itself is evidence of racism, sexism, or the like.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject:

No one can discuss race neutrally.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
No one can discuss race neutrally.


Says every intolerant individual who just wants to shut-down the discussion ... "it can't be done objectively, so let's just drop it and stick with the status quo" ...

I doubt that's reflective of your intentions, but it happens to be the exact outcome they often seem to seek out ...
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