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governator
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
Those examples you post are not what majority of left has been advocating regarding gun control. Majority of left wants gun control in the form of vetting of firearm purchases. If you're talking about gun control as strictly politicized issue then the right has definitely been winning, they have their message resonating with 'middle America' but anything other than vetting for firearm purchases are narratives written by the conservative media/leaders


I'm not buying that. From what I've seen, most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws. The Democratic Party (which is distinct from the left) has pushed vetting, but got smacked down on it.


This is the narrative that the conservative media/leaders are pushing that the 'left' wants to take your gun away. The left is about vetting for firearm purchase
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Do you think the conservative base will eventually move closer to the center?
Or will Fox News, Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones (and their versions in the future) repeatedly lead them off a cliff in perpetuity?
I know it's dismissive to call the conservative base brainwashed. But the majority of policy from the Trump WH and the GOP Congress makes the average Republican's life harder. So I have to assume the base is being manipulated.


The conservative base sees the world differently than you do and has different values. They regard you as brainwashed. When you tell them what is good for them, they will give you the middle finger. When you tell them that they are racist, sexist, and homophobic, they dig in.

I saw this article about Democrats and gun control yesterday. If you want to start understanding how the liberal elites constantly shoot themselves in the feet with middle America, this is a good starting point. There is a lot more to the issue than guns, but without a doubt gun control is an albatross for the Democratic Party.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/24/democrats-guns-rob-quist-215186

I'll give you one quote:

Quote:
Bill Clinton delivered that warning weeks after Sandy Hook to a room of Democratic donors: “All these polls that you see saying the public is for us on all these issues — they are meaningless if they’re not voting issues.” The Arkansan further explained the cultural significance of guns in rural America, “A lot of these people … all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing. Or they’re living in a place where they don’t have much police presence. Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.” North Carolina’s John Edwards summed it up more succinctly during his 2004 presidential bid: “Where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves. They are about independence.”


Truth is, there is no way to logically speak to someone who is constantly being illogical. And no that does not mean anyone should believe either side is Always being logical. But we've seen enough over the past few decades to know that the GOP for the most part are not trying to do most american citizens any favors. Thats a known fact by now, not an opinion. So why would these same (non rich citizens) continue to vote for these type of leaders that will only lead them to the slaughter house? The answer actually is not logical.

To me anytime i catch someone constantly and knowingly choosing things that will harm them either today or in the long run, and these people have had many examples of this happening to them by the same types of people they keep voting for. anytime i see this, i have to start assuming maybe they are mentally ill/delusional. Because you have to wonder who else would KEEP doing that to themselves?

And dont give me that nonsense about these people not having time to do the research. They have time to be in the comment sections replying with the same stuff they heard from the same talking heads. So if they have that much time, they have enough time to read some legit articles, do a little google search and find out for themselves. The GOP hasnt even been sneaky about it.

So the only way to deal with these types is to let them have their way and let them hurt, hurt, hurt, and hurt some more until they realize that delusion will cost you. the only problem is, the rest of us will feel the fire right along with them. and notice nothing i'm saying has anything to do with voting democrat. All I'm saying is stop voting for people you know for a fact will harm you. Then start looking for someone who will at least make an attempt to do right by you.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
Those examples you post are not what majority of left has been advocating regarding gun control. Majority of left wants gun control in the form of vetting of firearm purchases. If you're talking about gun control as strictly politicized issue then the right has definitely been winning, they have their message resonating with 'middle America' but anything other than vetting for firearm purchases are narratives written by the conservative media/leaders


I'm not buying that. From what I've seen, most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws. The Democratic Party (which is distinct from the left) has pushed vetting, but got smacked down on it.


This is the narrative that the conservative media/leaders are pushing that the 'left' wants to take your gun away. The left is about vetting for firearm purchase


You just keep repeating yourself. I've made my point, if you want to address it. If not, that's cool.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Truth is, there is no way to logically speak to someone who is constantly being illogical. And no that does not mean anyone should believe either side is Always being logical. But we've seen enough over the past few decades to know that the GOP for the most part are not trying to do most american citizens any favors. Thats a known fact by now, not an opinion. So why would these same (non rich citizens) continue to vote for these type of leaders that will only lead them to the slaughter house? The answer actually is not logical.


I've explained this over and over again. They don't share your values and worldview. As a result, you see them as illogical and deluded. Well, they think the same thing about you.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
Those examples you post are not what majority of left has been advocating regarding gun control. Majority of left wants gun control in the form of vetting of firearm purchases. If you're talking about gun control as strictly politicized issue then the right has definitely been winning, they have their message resonating with 'middle America' but anything other than vetting for firearm purchases are narratives written by the conservative media/leaders


I'm not buying that. From what I've seen, most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws. The Democratic Party (which is distinct from the left) has pushed vetting, but got smacked down on it.


This is the narrative that the conservative media/leaders are pushing that the 'left' wants to take your gun away. The left is about vetting for firearm purchase
welllll, lets tell the truth. liberals are sort of split on this. Some just want more vetting. The tougher the vetting..guess what happens? The harder it is for anyone to purchase a gun. That means sorry some of these folks will not be able to slide over to kentucky from ohio just to pick up a couple of AR's thru a gunshow/gun swap meet/gun flea market.

If the dems and dem voters had their way. AR's wouldn't be on the list of guns available for purchase at all. So in essence this is also "taking away my guns" if your "My guns" are a couple of AR's.

Truth is. we could give every citizen 3 types of guns and call it day.

you get a nice 6 shooter pistol
you get a shotgun
you get a hunting rifle.

non of which any of them are semi/automatic weapons.

but even then those in the states mentioned above will be upset because they want MORE fire power. not to hunt. But to brag about the fire power they have. to shoot it off at ranges, to shoot it out back, etc. and to "just in case the govvy tries to come take something of theirs."

These people do not and refuse to think long and hard about how many people would stop dying on accident due to having these guns around. The only thing they can think about is what if scenarios about them having to protect themselves. even if i proved to them thru legit stats showing the odds of you having to pull your gun to protect you and your family is so much slimmer than you think. it's not worth the possibly that someone around you will end up hurt by said gun(s).
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

What kind of people vote for Trump? People like him. They don't like to read. They get their information from FoxNews. They believe what they hear and do no research. Twitter is their information suite.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
Those examples you post are not what majority of left has been advocating regarding gun control. Majority of left wants gun control in the form of vetting of firearm purchases. If you're talking about gun control as strictly politicized issue then the right has definitely been winning, they have their message resonating with 'middle America' but anything other than vetting for firearm purchases are narratives written by the conservative media/leaders


I'm not buying that. From what I've seen, most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws. The Democratic Party (which is distinct from the left) has pushed vetting, but got smacked down on it.


This is the narrative that the conservative media/leaders are pushing that the 'left' wants to take your gun away. The left is about vetting for firearm purchase


You just keep repeating yourself. I've made my point, if you want to address it. If not, that's cool.


I am addressing it. You are stating anecdotal believe that 'most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws'... which are not true and it's actually the narrative that conservative media/leaders have been pushing, aka the left wants to take your gun away.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
So if I'm understanding your point correctly. You're saying the base cares more about unfettered access to guns than financial and national security.


No.

kikanga wrote:
The list of policy that Trump and Ryan push hurts the average Republican a lot more than it helps. They aren't voting for their own self interest (the way a democracy should work). That why I use the word manipulated.


This assumes that people have no overriding values.


What values are more important than having healthcare and enough money to live and provide for your family?
Gun rights? It used to be Judeo-Christian ethics...until the party nominated an admitted sex offender.

Can't wait to hear the reasoning the GOP will have to vote this down for example: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/24/15-dollar-raise-minimum-wage-democratic-leaders-proposal-238785

Probably some trickle down economic BS like it will create massive job losses. Despite evidence showing that's false: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_591e178be4b094cdba52a276

Top 1% is making a killing. But they can't afford to pay workers a wage they can live on. http://inequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Figure-1-e1455723650211.png
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Truth is, there is no way to logically speak to someone who is constantly being illogical. And no that does not mean anyone should believe either side is Always being logical. But we've seen enough over the past few decades to know that the GOP for the most part are not trying to do most american citizens any favors. Thats a known fact by now, not an opinion. So why would these same (non rich citizens) continue to vote for these type of leaders that will only lead them to the slaughter house? The answer actually is not logical.


I've explained this over and over again. They don't share your values and worldview. As a result, you see them as illogical and deluded. Well, they think the same thing about you.
nope. not buying it. Because we actually do share some values and world views. I'm conservative in some aspects and left leaning in others. See, i dont have an issue in a difference of opinion.

For example. I can understand if you are all in on a particular candidate purely based on a litmus test which states "if candidate A is not against abortions. i can't vote for candidate A", "If candidate B is for everthing else i hate, but he/she is against abotions. Then I will vote for candidate B the rest of the stuff i dont agree with is irrelevant."

^^i can understand that mentality. Even though it seems a bit crazy to some on the opposite side of the aisle. That persons Best interest is a candidate that is against abortions PERIOD. They are even willing to wave their right to a better economic lifestyle, etc.

I dont have a problem with people standing on something and willing to give something else up for it. sure i would like said person to come to the side i think is right. But i can understand this thought process.

What I can't understand is adults having tantrums and voting for people that they've seem harm them in the recent past and historically. And these type of voters are not saying they have a litmus test other than anything that isnt republican is wrong. Even when you have a republican like trump for instance, that has not even shown a lot of those "supposed republican conservative values."

And lets address some of those values. AH. do me a favor. List some economic so called conservative values of today.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
I am addressing it. You are stating anecdotal believe that 'most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws'... which are not true and it's actually the narrative that conservative media/leaders have been pushing, aka the left wants to take your gun away.


Are you seriously telling me that the left agrees that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms and that the left supports concealed carry laws? If so, I don't know what to say to that.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
What values are more important than having healthcare and enough money to live and provide for your family?


Limited government, for starters. This is where you miss the point. Sure, these people want healthcare and food. They just don't think that it's the government's job to provide it. Not everyone buys into the logic of the welfare state.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
And lets address some of those values. AH. do me a favor. List some economic so called conservative values of today.


See my response to Kikanga.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
I am addressing it. You are stating anecdotal believe that 'most of the left believes that the Second Amendment applies only to militias and is opposed to concealed carry laws'... which are not true and it's actually the narrative that conservative media/leaders have been pushing, aka the left wants to take your gun away.


Are you seriously telling me that the left agrees that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms and that the left supports concealed carry laws? If so, I don't know what to say to that.


the left agrees that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms...yes
the left supports concealed carry laws... mix
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
What values are more important than having healthcare and enough money to live and provide for your family?


Limited government, for starters. This is where you miss the point. Sure, these people want healthcare and food. They just don't think that it's the government's job to provide it. Not everyone buys into the logic of the welfare state.

Just to be clear. Is a $15 minimum wage a "welfare state"?

"Sorry little johnny. I know you can't afford lunch. And the school program was taken away that feeds you during the day. And all I can afford is Ramen for dinner. But the purity of limited government is too important.
Sorry we can't afford your asthma medication. But I had to vote to take it away. The purity of limited government is literally worth more than your life. Besides 'values' should be able to fill your stomach and keep the lights on".

I acknowledge people really believe that. I just think they are hurting their own essential interests.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

bertrome wrote:
Trump making sure the days without being an international embarrassment remain at 0.


Shoving aside foreign leader to be in front for photo-up. Check.
Exposing supreme ignorance on world stage. Check.
Chastising NATO leaders while being Putin's puppet. Check.
Back at home, court knocks down Muslim ban again with blistering reply from judge. Check.
New Trumpcare poll registers 20% approval. Check.
Attorney General caught lying about Russian meetings on his White House Security background check. Check.
GOP becomes the goon party as they all brush aside Montana candidate's physical assault on member of the press. Check
Even Lieberman doesn't want the new FBI director job. Check.

Will keep an eye our for another embarrassing public hand-slap from the wife. The day's not over.

Oh, he wasn't done:

Tells other NATO leaders that Germans are very, very bad people. Very bad. (not the Onion).
At 9/11 ceremony which included metal fragments from original Twin Towers, Trump refuses to endorse NATO Article V, which has been invoked just once in the alliance's history: after 9/11.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Just to be clear. Is a $15 minimum wage a "welfare state"?


No, it isn't part of the welfare state. It's government intervention in the free market.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
the left agrees that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms...yes


Wow, those 5-4 Supreme Court decisions should have been a lot less controversial!
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject:

IMO the 2nd Amendment is being misused and should be amended, rewritten. Some are using it to take us back to the wild wild west.

IMO guns should be allowed in the home for protection and though I don't like it, hunting and sport shooting.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Donald scolded NATO for not paying their fair share at the 911 ceremony. I don't think many, if any, expected that.


Most people are at the point where they put nothing past him. Those who have been paying attention no longer say 'that has to be fake. He would never say/do that.'

Donald has a point, NATO's not paying their fair share. However the 911 memorial ceremony wasn't the place to admonish the community. Right after saying how they helped, came together, during 911.


No, he doesn't have a point. The agreement says that NATO members should spend 2% of their GDP on their OWN militaries. Most members spend less than that, but they have many more years to meet that target. So when he says that they "owe" us something, he's lying.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
What values are more important than having healthcare and enough money to live and provide for your family?


Limited government, for starters. This is where you miss the point. Sure, these people want healthcare and food. They just don't think that it's the government's job to provide it. Not everyone buys into the logic of the welfare state.

ok so now its time to have a real conversation.

limited government. what does that exactly mean in theory vs application(what you've seen the so called limited govt GOPers actually do)?

You say I want limited govt. Yet you want more armed forces and more police officers.

The regular joe citizen republican says i dont want the govt to me food(aka welfare if you are in need).

Yet giant corporations constantly get welfare from the govt.

See this is where the divide comes in. You hear one thing from those that are rich or those that are being bought off by the rich. But in reality these people want more government. They just want to have all of that govt money for themselves which means theirs going to be little left for you and I if we actually need it one day.

Assuming AH or a lot of these republicans are not big business owners. They may own businesses. but not big ones bringing in tons of cash.

let's Talk DeVos. She wants limited govt and more school choice with the vouchers programs, charters, for profit colleges.

You do realize non of these things actually provide MOST americans with more choices or better choices. You do realize we have been in worse shape with these things that DeVos swears by. So why would DeVos continue to swear by them and talk the limited govt/more choice talk? They dont want limited govt per se. Well They dont really want to cut govt spending aka your tax dollars. They just want to be in control of it with their corporations/companies. This will not trickle down to us small fries with small businesses or no businesses at all. While they will make laws to keep the smaller businesses from becoming large ones in their respective fields that they already dominate. But they aint telling you that up front.

The truth is people like DeVos sees a mountain full of cash in education that she could have vs her not having it. She could care less about the majority of children and their parents. she just sees $$$$ signs with all that tax payer money.

let me show you what I'm talking about
Quote:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/school-vouchers-good-education-debate-playing-indiana/

VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I have also long believed that parents should be able to choose where their kids go to school.

LISA STARK
: Enrollment skyrocketed from 9,000 students to more than 34,000, 3 percent of the school population. This year, $146 million in tax dollars is going to private schools.

School choice, including vouchers, is high on the agenda of President Trump and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos. Trump’s first school visit was to a Florida Catholic school that accepts vouchers.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Education is the civil rights issue of our time. And it’s why I have asked Congress to support a school choice bill.

LISA STARK: Nationally, the results on vouchers are mixed, with little or no improvement in test scores for voucher students. Still, some 29 states are considering dozens of bills that would start or expand vouchers and similar programs.



Why are these states clamoring for vouches/privatizing education?

A few reasons and a few constituents.

reason #1: Corporations want to make a profit off of all that tax payer money floating around in education. The govt on education is not a for profit entity.

reason #2: The Affluent dont want anyone not in their realm around their kids. This choice is really a choice to segregate. Which is funny that trump brought up civil rights. lol.

Lastly its not just to segregate money vs no money. It's also to separate light browns from darker browns to make it simple.

constituents - corporations, affluent parents, light browns


The only people who will actually when, are the corporations, affluent parents, and only the upper crust of the light browns.

The remainder of the light browns will suffer and so will all of the darker browns.

But guess who's going to vote for this kind of stuff. the broke light browns will be the first in line for school choice vouchers.

another old article during Romeny's run
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-wittner/the-republican-small-gove_b_1832047.html
Quote:
Yes, admittedly, there is plenty of GOP support for small government when it comes to cutting taxes on the wealthy, limiting regulation of big business, gutting environmental regulations, weakening legal protections for workers and racial minorities, and slashing government funding for public education, public health, and social welfare services. But there is a common denominator to this kind of small government action.

It is all designed to serve the interests of the wealthy and powerful at the expense of everyone else. Thus, the Republican Party opposes government alleviation of hunger through the distribution of food stamps, but supports government subsidies to corporations.


You know the above is factual because theirs too many statistics and stories from your neighbors that proves the above is factual. And just to be fair its not just the GOP doing it. Their is a faction in the Dem party doing it as well. Which is why they are splintering right now.

As i always say lets keep it simple. The financial crisis. Who lost the most? The regular joe or the ultra rich joe? We know the answer to that is the regular joe. We saw the government more or less protect or at worse not put those shady bankers/wallstreet guys in jail like they should have.

But we did see one guy go to prison. Bernie Madoff. Why? Because he messed with the wrong constituents.
See its ok for bankers/wall street to play with and lose all of the regular joes money, bet on the regular joes failure, and thrive because of it.
Not much will be done to you.

But you better not mess with rich people's money. You will end up in jail.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
What values are more important than having healthcare and enough money to live and provide for your family?


Limited government, for starters. This is where you miss the point. Sure, these people want healthcare and food. They just don't think that it's the government's job to provide it. Not everyone buys into the logic of the welfare state.

Just to be clear. Is a $15 minimum wage a "welfare state"?

"Sorry little johnny. I know you can't afford lunch. And the school program was taken away that feeds you during the day. And all I can afford is Ramen for dinner. But the purity of limited government is too important.
Sorry we can't afford your asthma medication. But I had to vote to take it away. The purity of limited government is literally worth more than your life. Besides 'values' should be able to fill your stomach and keep the lights on".

I acknowledge people really believe that. I just think they are hurting their own essential interests.
They believe in an Idea that is not reality. To believe in small govt to assist you when the people you vote for like big government to be used to assist the ultra rich. tells me you're delusional since this has happened to you multiple times for decades. At what point do you say enough is a enough.."let's make america great" forget the again part. because if you go to far back america wasnt great for a lot of people.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

People on the right don't want "limited government." They want "limited government" for OTHER PEOPLE, but great government benefits for themselves.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
ok so now its time to have a real conversation.


Sure, let's see how that goes.

splashmtn wrote:
limited government. what does that exactly mean in theory vs application(what you've seen the so called limited govt GOPers actually do)?


This is your first error. We're talking about middle America and grass roots conservatism. You want to talk about the GOP, in particular the establishment GOP. Those are not the same thing. The history of the last eight years on the right has been a rebellion against the establishment.

splashmtn wrote:
You say I want limited govt. Yet you want more armed forces and more police officers.


The "you" and "I" are confusing here, but yes, the limited government types consider national security and law enforcement to be a legitimate role of government. With some exceptions, they are also cool with highways and other public works.

splashmtn wrote:
The regular joe citizen republican says i dont want the govt to me food(aka welfare if you are in need).

Yet giant corporations constantly get welfare from the govt.


Which they oppose. This is why the Bush era bailout was the wellspring of the Tea Party movement. There were other factors, without a doubt. But McCain doomed himself by jumping on board the bank bailout.

splashmtn wrote:
See this is where the divide comes in. You hear one thing from those that are rich or those that are being bought off by the rich. But in reality these people want more government. They just want to have all of that govt money for themselves which means theirs going to be little left for you and I if we actually need it one day.


Your perception of a divide flows from the first error. The rest of your post is a rant about education and vouchers. As to all of that, consider two questions. Are any of these sorts of proposals gaining any real traction? Why not?
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject:

Jared Kushner Now Under FBI Scrutiny in Russia Probe, Say Officials

Quote:
Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and one of his senior advisers, has come under FBI scrutiny in the Russia investigation, multiple U.S. officials told NBC News.

Investigators believe Kushner has significant information relevant to their inquiry, officials said. That does not mean they suspect him of a crime or intend to charge him.

The FBI's scrutiny of Kushner places the bureau's sprawling counterintelligence and criminal investigation not only on the doorstep of the White House, but on the cusp of the Trump family circle. The Washington Post first reported last week that a senior White House official close to Trump was a "person of interest," but did not name the person. The term "person of interest" has no legal meaning.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
People on the right don't want "limited government." They want "limited government" for OTHER PEOPLE, but great government benefits for themselves.


here's the thing CL, I'm a team player. I dont care if you're on the right or left or in the middle. I would like for my fellow citizens to leave a pretty good life as long as they are willing to work to contribute. I have zero problems sharing. But I understand how you share and who you share with(family/friends only or all citizens) is up for debate.

Thats not eve the debate topic with the avg joe right winger. These people are harming themselves. At least get something for yourself and let me be mad at the fact you dont care about me and my types. But we can't even have that next level conversation until they realize they are harming themselves.
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