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jodeke
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 Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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@ Donald Trump and his supporters.
I'm not in the Trump must fail camp. His failing means the country has failed. His attempt to be King will fail. Autocracy will fail. Democracy will prevail.
It looked to me as though he was dismissing Angela Merkel when they were walking down what seemed to be a tarmac. They seemed to be arguing.
I've never seen a president so blatantly disregard the needs of the country and boldly front an agenda that supports his getting richer and the poor staying poor. A agenda that affords his word being the last.
Russia is our enemy. I believe our government has a soviet mole. Kushner may be that mole.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | When education, job training, child care, preventative health care, access to birth control and a livable minimum wage are categorized alternatively as both socialism and as a pejorative directed at white working class voters, then I have to conclude we have no common set of facts upon which to discuss this further.
#TGIF |
Be careful. You can hurt your shoulder if you pat yourself on the back too hard. |
Love how you always have to end these things with a personal jab. |
It's this, calling evidence opinion, producing opinion with no evidence as fact, and rebutting the argument not made. Fairly standard lawyer and politician (but I repeat myself) stuff. |
Right, and I get accused of taking personal jabs. Maybe you should just re-title this thread "The Liberal Safe Zone," and you can all just agree with each other. |
Those are all critiques of your argument, and this is yet another form of it.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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LINK
After thoughts;
(1) Does the government have the power to force Trump to release his tax returns?
(2) Isn't John something people sit on to release body waste? 
(3) When will enough be enough
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Even McMasters is covering for Kushner now. What a corrupt lackey he turned out to be. What could possibly be in it for him? |
Or... maybe he's not a corrupt lackey.
The guy has a long history of distinguished service. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Even McMasters is covering for Kushner now. What a corrupt lackey he turned out to be. What could possibly be in it for him? |
Or... maybe he's not a corrupt lackey.
The guy has a long history of distinguished service. |
How does his long history of distinguished service negate his obvious cover up? Kushner setting up a communication line that would shield conversations with the enemy is appalling. Sleeping with the enemy comes to mind.
DI I hope you're not one who's being fooled by our shister in office.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Even McMasters is covering for Kushner now. What a corrupt lackey he turned out to be. What could possibly be in it for him? |
Or... maybe he's not a corrupt lackey.
The guy has a long history of distinguished service. |
Which in no way means anything. Many people with distinguished histories become corrupted, or were actually corrupt the whole time and just didn't;'t get caught for a while.
It's one thing to quietly establish "back channel communications" with an ally for the convenience of being discrete. It's quite another to try and establish a secret conduit of discussion with an adversarial nation and do so surreptitiously while already under questionable influence by that adversarial nation.
McMasters is clearly another vermin of the cesspool that is Trumps's swamp, regardless of his "distinguished" past . . . either that or he's a naive idiot (and I highly doubt the latter is the case).
So 'take yer pick" as they say.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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And everything you built that’s all for show
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In 24 frames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Come on . . . a guy's gotta have his priorities.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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ROGER WATERS BRINGS POWERFUL ANTI-TRUMP MESSAGE ON NEW TOUR, OFFENDING SOME FANS
They can't really have been fans if they were not already well aware of Waters's political views or the fact that he is going to express them.
It's stuff like this that makes me laugh when douchebag Repugnants use terms like "snowflake". These pathetic little flowers couldn't even go to a freaking rock concert without losing their petals because a little politics was blowing in the wind.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Raijin
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | ROGER WATERS BRINGS POWERFUL ANTI-TRUMP MESSAGE ON NEW TOUR, OFFENDING SOME FANS
They can't really have been fans if they were not already well aware of Waters's political views or the fact that he is going to express them.
It's stuff like this that makes me laugh when douchebag Repugnants use terms like "snowflake". These pathetic little flowers couldn't even go to a freaking rock concert without losing their petals because a little politics was blowing in the wind. |
It's projection, remember the whole war against Christmas
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I SMH at Trump supporters. His promises are great. He doesn't fulfill them yet he's still supported. Our citizenry causes me wonder how we stayed atop the heap this long. Must be politicians. A game show host is bringing us down.
Schwarzenegger wasn't this bad. What alarms me is he won two terms. Oh lawd!!!
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Even McMasters is covering for Kushner now. What a corrupt lackey he turned out to be. What could possibly be in it for him? |
Or... maybe he's not a corrupt lackey.
The guy has a long history of distinguished service. |
Which in no way means anything. Many people with distinguished histories become corrupted, or were actually corrupt the whole time and just didn't;'t get caught for a while.
It's one thing to quietly establish "back channel communications" with an ally for the convenience of being discrete. It's quite another to try and establish a secret conduit of discussion with an adversarial nation and do so surreptitiously while already under questionable influence by that adversarial nation.
McMasters is clearly another vermin of the cesspool that is Trumps's swamp, regardless of his "distinguished" past . . . either that or he's a naive idiot (and I highly doubt the latter is the case).
So 'take yer pick" as they say. |
It means everything.
The man is an actively-serving 3-star general in the US military. He was approved for this assignment by nearly every sitting senator. He's been doing this for longer than Kushner has been alive.
Anyone who thinks he's naive or corrupted is, quite frankly, being ridiculous. He's also probably about to get fired by the President because he's not on the same team. He was one of the only adults in the room, and even he couldn't bring sanity to the administration.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-mcmaster-israel-russia-fired-national-security-adviser-jared-kushner-616735 |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe I am missing the info, but what had McMaster done to impugn his credibility other than his association with Trump? I know what he did with the release of Israel's classified info to the Russiand - he didn't lie, issuing a denial on accusations that had never been made. He played good soldier there. To date, has he been accused of being part of the Russian scandal? Any improper contacts by him? Has he lied in any way? He recently stood up for Kushner, but in doing so, did he offer any misrepresentations?
Unless he has done anything more than sticking up for people we don't like, he still has credibility with me. I'm not going to go call someone corrupt just because of who they associate with. Hell, RBG was super close with Scalia, but doesn't make me like her any less.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Maybe I am missing the info, but what had McMaster done to impugn his credibility other than his association with Trump? I know what he did with the release of Israel's classified info to the Russiand - he didn't lie, issuing a denial on accusations that had never been made. He played good soldier there. To date, has he been accused of being part of the Russian scandal? Any improper contacts by him? Has he lied in any way? He recently stood up for Kushner, but in doing so, did he offer any misrepresentations?
Unless he has done anything more than sticking up for people we don't like, he still has credibility with me. I'm not going to go call someone corrupt just because of who they associate with. Hell, RBG was super close with Scalia, but doesn't make me like her any less. |
This is all he said:
| Quote: | McMaster said he could not talk about Kushner's talks with Russia because "it's not something that I've in any way been involved with or that I have any knowledge of."
McMaster, a decorated three-star Army general, was asked whether he would be concerned if an official on his National Security Council staff or elsewhere in the Trump administration sought a back-channel communications system with the Russian embassy or the Kremlin in Moscow.
"No," McMaster said. "We have back-channel communications with a number of countries. So, generally speaking, about back-channel communications, what that allows you to do is to communicate in a discreet manner."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/05/27/trump-adviser-i-would-not-be-concerned-about-a-russia-back-channel-irrespective-of-kushner/ |
Calling him corrupt or naive, based on those comments, is quite frankly ludicrous. He and Mattis are the only people with credibility in this administration. People are speculating Trump is about to fire McMaster too, because he doesn't like being questioned, so this sounds extra ridiculous. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Right, and I get accused of taking personal jabs. |
Because to do. Frequently. And when you aren't taking jabs, you are engaging in embarrassingly obvious condescension. You're not the only one on either end here who does either. But you ARE the only one who won't own up to it and constantly plays the victim when called on it.
| Quote: | | Maybe you should just re-title this thread "The Liberal Safe Zone," |
I think it's been very clear that no one here needs a "safe zone". Those on the Left have been more than willing to engage the presence of you and our other conservative friends. You just have to grasp a couple of truths. One being that because your view is met with a ton on of disagreement doesn't mean you are being victimized. It just mean a lot of people disagree with you.
And I do find it interesting, and totally in keeping with the hypocrisy that you on the Right engage in, all the comical "snowflake" crap that gets thrown around bye those on the Right demonstrates who are truly the biggest snowflakes around. You're happy to dish out dismissiveness and insults, but when you are called on your falsities and condescension you simply point fingers and play victim.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Sat May 27, 2017 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Calling him corrupt or naive, based on those comments, is quite frankly ludicrous. |
Not at all. For the reasons that have already been outlined.
| Quote: | | He and Mattis are the only people with credibility in this administration. |
Here's the problem, there is NO one with any credibility in that administration, and the fact that people don't accept that obvious fact is what's causing the problem. More importantly, it's the biggest blockage toward FIXING the problem.
| Quote: | | People are speculating Trump is about to fire McMaster too, because he doesn't like being questioned, so this sounds extra ridiculous. |
I think you believe you have a point there. I just can't see what it would be. So Trump fires yet another person who was once on his side. How does that mean the person he fired this time was completely innocent?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Calling him corrupt or naive, based on those comments, is quite frankly ludicrous. |
Not at all. For the reasons that have already been outlined.
| Quote: | | He and Mattis are the only people with credibility in this administration. |
Here's the problem, there is NO one with any credibility in that administration, and the fact that people don't accept that obvious fact is what's causing the problem. More importantly, it's the biggest blockage toward FIXING the problem.
| Quote: | | People are speculating Trump is about to fire McMaster too, because he doesn't like being questioned, so this sounds extra ridiculous. |
I think you believe you have a point there. I just can't see what it would be. So Trump fires yet another person who was once on his side. How does that mean the person he fired this time was completely innocent? |
I guess you know more than the US senators, 99 of which voted for Mattis and 92 which voted for McMaster. They're basically the only sane people in the admin, and attempting to paint them with the same brush as the rest of the bozos is being unreasonably partisan. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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No one is saying that McMaster and, say, Spicer are the same. McMaster and Mattis knew that they'd be working for the most dishonest, ignorant, narcissistic president in our nation's history. The fact that they're still there is what worries me because the longer you're around Trump, the more you resemble Trump. So you can talk about the possibility of McMaster being fired all day long, but he hasn't been fired. And when he gets fired, then maybe you'll have a point. When he came out of the White House to comment on the intelligence leak by Trump, he misled the public in order to defend Trump. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Before they left for their long foreign trip, he had his own mini press conference and gave us a bunch of bs about Trump's "leadership," his commitment to keeping our alliances strong, about his focus on making the NSC as effective as possible, etc. All of that was a bunch of lies and McMaster knew it. So every time he lies to defend Trump and hails Trump's "leadership," he loses a bit of that incredible integrity you keep bringing up.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | No one is saying that McMaster and, say, Spicer are the same. McMaster and Mattis knew that they'd be working for the most dishonest, ignorant, narcissistic president in our nation's history. The fact that they're still there is what worries me because the longer you're around Trump, the more you resemble Trump. So you can talk about the possibility of McMaster being fired all day long, but he hasn't been fired. And when he gets fired, then maybe you'll have a point. When he came out of the White House to comment on the intelligence leak by Trump, he misled the public in order to defend Trump. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Before they left for their long foreign trip, he had his own mini press conference and gave us a bunch of bs about Trump's "leadership," his commitment to keeping our alliances strong, about his focus on making the NSC as effective as possible, etc. All of that was a bunch of lies and McMaster knew it. So every time he lies to defend Trump and hails Trump's "leadership," he loses a bit of that incredible integrity you keep bringing up. |
I see that as him trying to keep his job while attempting to return some semblance of sanity to an administration that lacks any. If he's not fired, wouldn't surprise me to see him request another assignment or retire. Nothing I've read in the NYT, WaPo or any other credible outlet has led me to believe anything other than that narrative. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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One can be sane and also dishonest.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: |
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This is a great thread for reading aggregated news, and I really appreciate all the commenters and contributors.
Posting news items and long-form investigative pieces doesn't create an echo chamber. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | No one is saying that McMaster and, say, Spicer are the same. McMaster and Mattis knew that they'd be working for the most dishonest, ignorant, narcissistic president in our nation's history. The fact that they're still there is what worries me because the longer you're around Trump, the more you resemble Trump. So you can talk about the possibility of McMaster being fired all day long, but he hasn't been fired. And when he gets fired, then maybe you'll have a point. When he came out of the White House to comment on the intelligence leak by Trump, he misled the public in order to defend Trump. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Before they left for their long foreign trip, he had his own mini press conference and gave us a bunch of bs about Trump's "leadership," his commitment to keeping our alliances strong, about his focus on making the NSC as effective as possible, etc. All of that was a bunch of lies and McMaster knew it. So every time he lies to defend Trump and hails Trump's "leadership," he loses a bit of that incredible integrity you keep bringing up. |
I see that as him trying to keep his job while attempting to return some semblance of sanity to an administration that lacks any. If he's not fired, wouldn't surprise me to see him request another assignment or retire. Nothing I've read in the NYT, WaPo or any other credible outlet has led me to believe anything other than that narrative. |
No reasonable person is going to think they are going to bring and sanity and integrity to this administration because any attempt to do so would certainly be seen by Trump as being an obstructionist to his off the rails nonsense. McMaster is clearly complicit in excusing and thus perpetuating said nonsense. Thus, his integrity is absolutely surrendered. The fact that he may not be as extreme as others in the administration doesn't change that.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
i hear what you're saying. but i'm not buying it.
You can't say you believe in things but not really have any facts to back up WHY. You can't vote for people and don't really have any tangible reason why you did so in regards to them satisfying their promises to actually help you. well you can do all of these things. YOu just can't act like their's a logical reason when you yourself can't come up with said logical reasons based on facts.
I'm still waiting for non rich conservatives to show me proof of how conservatives have actually helped them. I have yet to see this factual evidence. I want these same people to at least show us in THEORY how it could help them. so we can then address the actual application of what their politicians have done currently, and in the past that proves they have not assisted them much at all.
The same can be said for some of the corporate dems too in regards to a few of their policies as well.
So dont go running and hiding or talking about "they are ganging up on me." No. We're asking you to present some actual facts. If you can't do that. Then we would like for your to admit that you and those who have voted that way have made huge mistakes in doing so. Thats pretty much what we're asking of you. either prove why your side is valid or be honest and say "I messed up.." Doesnt mean you have to become a dem either. That 2 party only option is nonsense anyway. That lesser of two evils is for the birds. At some point we as citizens have to demand more of our politicians than just them picking a side and sticking to it even though most of these things are not helping most of us in the long run. |
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