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nickuku
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Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
There have been a only a few conservative posters besides yourself and they've all been insufferable, dishonest and trolls besides DuncanIdaho. You yourself have have been dishonest in your counter arguments but then you play the hurt feelings card when people have not been so gentle in putting you down.
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
I don't like the personal attacks. And frankly, you are the only conservative in here who seeks actual debate rather than trolling and disseminating propaganda. There have been people who have reacted sharply and unfairly to you without provocation, but you have done more than your fair share. Just goes to show how difficult it is to have a conversation.
From my perspective, I think most of this thread reflects the reality of the government we are in. Not like people are posting fake news. This thread is mostly about Trump because every day there is a new Trump story reported. Don't blame the people of this thread, blame Trump.
Now, that being said, two people can see the same story and come away with two different conclusions. I wish people were more tolerant of some of your views as I wish you were with them. As for me, I can only recall one instance where I walked away from a conversation with you because it wasn't going to be productive if i continued, but, otherwise, I think I've been pretty fair with you.
Also, keep in mind this is a Lakers site. Most of the people who post here are from California, which means most posters are going to liberal. It doesn't mean they are pushing out the conservative posters, it just may mean there aren't that many conservative posters to be had here.
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38774
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
There have been a only a few conservative posters besides yourself and they've all been insufferable, dishonest and trolls besides DuncanIdaho. You yourself have have been dishonest in your counter arguments but then you play the hurt feelings card when people have not been so gentle in putting you down. |
Calling somebody a troll because they don't share the same views as you is the reason why they have stopped posting here. Look at the thread participants at the start of this thread and look how many are left. I've seen them slowly being weeded out whether thru the moderators giving them a vacation or them just being tired of being called out for their views and stopped posting and just lurking. The moderators whether they see it or not are left leaning. Heck one of them donated and supported the Hillary campaign so I can see where she is coming from. Aeneas Hunter is probably the last ones that make an argument contrary to the prevailing opinions that still participate actively in this thread and seeing him being called out by the left leaning posters on this thread is not surprising. Look nobody is changing anybodies political ideologies in this thread. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: |
Calling somebody a troll because they don't share the same views as you is the reason why they have stopped posting here. |
No one is called a troll for having a different viewpoint, as is proven by the fact that quality posters like Duncan Idaho can participate in this thread and post reasonably and responsibly and be dealt with in kind.
The only people I have seen called "trolls" here are those who engage in that kind of behavior - hit and run posting of comments lacking in substance and meant merely to incite, rather than discuss.
| Quote: | | Look at the thread participants at the start of this thread and look how many are left. I've seen them slowly being weeded out whether thru the moderators giving them a vacation or them just being tired of being called out for their views and stopped posting and just lurking. |
As an almost daily participant in this thread, I can say with complete honesty and accuracy that no one has been given a vacation for simply expressing their views. Those who have expressed their views respectably and respectfully have been dealt with in kind. The people who have been sanctioned have found themselves so for continuously ignoring the moderators warnings to follow the guidelines.
As one who has himself been warned by LS on more than a couple of occasions to dial back my comments, I can say that if one is willing to own up to what was said that lead to that warning and adjusts one's behavior out of respect for the warning, one is not going to be suspended or banned. The people who have found themselves being dealt with by the mods are those who refuse to self-regulate themselves and stubbornly refuse to respect guidelines - repeatedly.
More importantly, I will point out that I am one of the most vocal and Left leaning posters in the thread, and I have been warned to reign my comments in. Which is evidence that this accusation of a one-sided witch hunt of conservatives by the moderators is complete nonsense.
| Quote: | | The moderators whether they see it or not are left leaning. Heck one of them donated and supported the Hillary campaign so I can see where she is coming from.Aeneas Hunter is probably the last ones that make an argument contrary to the prevailing opinions that still participate actively in this thread and seeing him being called out by the left leaning posters on this thread is not surprising. |
No one is being called out for their views. People are called out on the manner in which they present those views. That's a HUGE distinction.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17245
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | No one is saying that McMaster and, say, Spicer are the same. McMaster and Mattis knew that they'd be working for the most dishonest, ignorant, narcissistic president in our nation's history. The fact that they're still there is what worries me because the longer you're around Trump, the more you resemble Trump. So you can talk about the possibility of McMaster being fired all day long, but he hasn't been fired. And when he gets fired, then maybe you'll have a point. When he came out of the White House to comment on the intelligence leak by Trump, he misled the public in order to defend Trump. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Before they left for their long foreign trip, he had his own mini press conference and gave us a bunch of bs about Trump's "leadership," his commitment to keeping our alliances strong, about his focus on making the NSC as effective as possible, etc. All of that was a bunch of lies and McMaster knew it. So every time he lies to defend Trump and hails Trump's "leadership," he loses a bit of that incredible integrity you keep bringing up. |
I see that as him trying to keep his job while attempting to return some semblance of sanity to an administration that lacks any. If he's not fired, wouldn't surprise me to see him request another assignment or retire. Nothing I've read in the NYT, WaPo or any other credible outlet has led me to believe anything other than that narrative. |
No reasonable person is going to think they are going to bring and sanity and integrity to this administration because any attempt to do so would certainly be seen by Trump as being an obstructionist to his off the rails nonsense. McMaster is clearly complicit in excusing and thus perpetuating said nonsense. Thus, his integrity is absolutely surrendered. The fact that he may not be as extreme as others in the administration doesn't change that. |
So an active duty Lieutenant General, greatly respected by senators from both sides of the aisle, who has every one of his posts voted on, says one thing that's even slightly controversial and he's Oliver North. I guess that's where we're at right now.
Did you read the Newsweek article I posted last page? I'm not sure if you have based on your obstructionist comment. Rumblings are he's about to be fired for exactly that. That's why he was excluded from meetings in Israel. Not playing ball with Trumps team. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
There have been a only a few conservative posters besides yourself and they've all been insufferable, dishonest and trolls besides DuncanIdaho. You yourself have have been dishonest in your counter arguments but then you play the hurt feelings card when people have not been so gentle in putting you down. |
Calling somebody a troll because they don't share the same views as you is the reason why they have stopped posting here. Look at the thread participants at the start of this thread and look how many are left. I've seen them slowly being weeded out whether thru the moderators giving them a vacation or them just being tired of being called out for their views and stopped posting and just lurking. The moderators whether they see it or not are left leaning. Heck one of them donated and supported the Hillary campaign so I can see where she is coming from. Aeneas Hunter is probably the last ones that make an argument contrary to the prevailing opinions that still participate actively in this thread and seeing him being called out by the left leaning posters on this thread is not surprising. Look nobody is changing anybodies political ideologies in this thread. |
the problem with this is people are still asking what argument is being made based on FACTS? |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38774
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think I let a lot of personal stuff go on here from both sides because we can usually reign it in, so lets get back to just talking issues rather than accusation and labeling. Never goes anywhere. |
It's too late for that. I was the last of the non-liberal posters in this thread. The rest already bailed on this thread. It's not a lot of fun getting ganged up on by a wolf pack that includes moderators and DMR, who you inexplicably refuse to moderate. You should probably lock it up now, or give it a more honest thread title ("The Trump Bashing Thread") to warn away non-liberals. It's just going to be a liberal echo chamber now. |
There have been a only a few conservative posters besides yourself and they've all been insufferable, dishonest and trolls besides DuncanIdaho. You yourself have have been dishonest in your counter arguments but then you play the hurt feelings card when people have not been so gentle in putting you down. |
Calling somebody a troll because they don't share the same views as you is the reason why they have stopped posting here. Look at the thread participants at the start of this thread and look how many are left. I've seen them slowly being weeded out whether thru the moderators giving them a vacation or them just being tired of being called out for their views and stopped posting and just lurking. The moderators whether they see it or not are left leaning. Heck one of them donated and supported the Hillary campaign so I can see where she is coming from. Aeneas Hunter is probably the last ones that make an argument contrary to the prevailing opinions that still participate actively in this thread and seeing him being called out by the left leaning posters on this thread is not surprising. Look nobody is changing anybodies political ideologies in this thread. |
the problem with this is people are still asking what argument is being made based on FACTS? |
When one already assumes that one side of the argument has all the facts and the other side is wrong you already made your own conclusions. You already answered your own question. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
No. The fact that I am a liberal and I have been warned by the staff is NOT an "opinion".
The fact that people have been suspended for ignoring direct warnings is NOT an "opinion".
Now I certainly can't speak for why people have decided on their own to not participate in this thread anymore. But I can say that anyone who has chosen not to participate has done so by their own and not because they were forced to. If someone finds their positions in the minority, they can choose to continue expressing that minority view, or they can decide that they don't want to participate in an arena where they are the minority viewpoint. But the responsibility for that decision resides with that individual. I'm not going to enter a discussion where I know I am in the minority and then demand that the majority dial back their views to make me feel more at home.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17245
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: |
Calling somebody a troll because they don't share the same views as you is the reason why they have stopped posting here. |
No one is called a troll for having a different viewpoint, as is proven by the fact that quality posters like Duncan Idaho can participate in this thread and post reasonably and responsibly and be dealt with in kind.
The only people I have seen called "trolls" here are those who engage in that kind of behavior - hit and run posting of comments lacking in substance and meant merely to incite, rather than discuss. |
Yeah, we pretty much disagree on several of the things we discuss, DMR, besides universal healthcare and a few others. I usually catch a lot of flack because I generally argue from the pro-2a, pro-military PoV. It can be frustrating to get ganged up on when I do that, but whatever, I know the arena I'm in. I'm not expecting anyone to change their minds.
That's okay though, this is politics, and if one can't discuss things without taking a few hits one should probably not participate. Sometimes it's hard going against groupthink though, but in the end this is just a message board, and is actually pretty civil by internet discussion standards.  Thanks mods.
Last edited by DuncanIdaho on Sun May 28, 2017 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38774
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
No. The fact that I am a liberal and I have been warned by the staff is NOT an "opinion".
The fact that people have been suspended for ignoring direct warnings is NOT an "opinion".
Now I certainly can't speak for why people have decided on their own to not participate in this thread anymore. But I can say that anyone who has chosen not to participate has done so by their own and not because they were forced to. If someone finds their positions in the minority, they can choose to continue expressing that minority view, or they can decide that they don't want to participate in an arena where they are the minority viewpoint. But the responsibility for that decision resides with that individual. I'm not going to enter a discussion where I know I am in the minority and then demand that the majority dial back their views to make me feel more at home. |
I'm not going to cherry pick your arguments. I've already said we have differing views on why people stopped posting. You can get all sanctimonious on me on why your arguments are better the DMR way.
Frankly right now they way I see it is you are debating why people are disagreeing and going way off topic. I'll just have to come to the conclusion that we disagree even to this most fundamental point. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | | No one is saying that McMaster and, say, Spicer are the same. McMaster and Mattis knew that they'd be working for the most dishonest, ignorant, narcissistic president in our nation's history. The fact that they're still there is what worries me because the longer you're around Trump, the more you resemble Trump. So you can talk about the possibility of McMaster being fired all day long, but he hasn't been fired. And when he gets fired, then maybe you'll have a point. When he came out of the White House to comment on the intelligence leak by Trump, he misled the public in order to defend Trump. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Before they left for their long foreign trip, he had his own mini press conference and gave us a bunch of bs about Trump's "leadership," his commitment to keeping our alliances strong, about his focus on making the NSC as effective as possible, etc. All of that was a bunch of lies and McMaster knew it. So every time he lies to defend Trump and hails Trump's "leadership," he loses a bit of that incredible integrity you keep bringing up. |
I see that as him trying to keep his job while attempting to return some semblance of sanity to an administration that lacks any. If he's not fired, wouldn't surprise me to see him request another assignment or retire. Nothing I've read in the NYT, WaPo or any other credible outlet has led me to believe anything other than that narrative. |
No reasonable person is going to think they are going to bring and sanity and integrity to this administration because any attempt to do so would certainly be seen by Trump as being an obstructionist to his off the rails nonsense. McMaster is clearly complicit in excusing and thus perpetuating said nonsense. Thus, his integrity is absolutely surrendered. The fact that he may not be as extreme as others in the administration doesn't change that. |
So an active duty Lieutenant General, greatly respected by senators from both sides of the aisle, who has every one of his posts voted on, says one thing that's even slightly controversial and he's Oliver North. I guess that's where we're at right now. |
It's more than just "slightly controversial". And it's more than just one thing. The very act of choosing to climb into the Trump Swamp brings one into question.
| Quote: | | Did you read the Newsweek article I posted last page? I'm not sure if you have based on your obstructionist comment. Rumblings are he's about to be fired for exactly that. That's why he was excluded from meetings in Israel. Not playing ball with Trumps team. |
Trump had no issues with Comey when Comey conveniently reintroduced the Clinton email controversy in the days before the election. It was when Comey became a problem for Trump that he was let go. And the fact that Comey was let go doesn't mean that he was completely honorable.
The point being that just because one isn't the worst of the worst, it doesn't mean they are above reproach.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17245
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The point being that just because one isn't the worst of the worst, it doesn't mean they are above reproach. |
This is true, I agree. I'm not saying McMaster is a saint that should never be questioned. My point all along has been screaming "corruption" as the first response just makes me not want to listen to anything else the person has to say. It's silly. He's not some toad who used to associate with Trump before the election or gave tons of money to get his job. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
No. The fact that I am a liberal and I have been warned by the staff is NOT an "opinion".
The fact that people have been suspended for ignoring direct warnings is NOT an "opinion".
Now I certainly can't speak for why people have decided on their own to not participate in this thread anymore. But I can say that anyone who has chosen not to participate has done so by their own and not because they were forced to. If someone finds their positions in the minority, they can choose to continue expressing that minority view, or they can decide that they don't want to participate in an arena where they are the minority viewpoint. But the responsibility for that decision resides with that individual. I'm not going to enter a discussion where I know I am in the minority and then demand that the majority dial back their views to make me feel more at home. |
I'm not going to cherry pick your arguments. I've already said we have differing views on why people stopped posting. You can get all sanctimonious on me on why your arguments are better the DMR way.
Frankly right now they way I see it is you are debating why people are disagreeing and going way off topic. I'll just have to come to the conclusion that we disagree even to this most fundamental point. |
I'm not being "sanctimonious" all. You attempted to dismiss my comments as merely being my "opinion". I simply pointed out that no, there was factual basis to my comments and indicated what that basis was. You can either choose to acknowledge that is accurate (which it is) or you can attempt to spin it in an attempt to ignore that reality. The choice you make speaks to the quality of your position.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38774
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
No. The fact that I am a liberal and I have been warned by the staff is NOT an "opinion".
The fact that people have been suspended for ignoring direct warnings is NOT an "opinion".
Now I certainly can't speak for why people have decided on their own to not participate in this thread anymore. But I can say that anyone who has chosen not to participate has done so by their own and not because they were forced to. If someone finds their positions in the minority, they can choose to continue expressing that minority view, or they can decide that they don't want to participate in an arena where they are the minority viewpoint. But the responsibility for that decision resides with that individual. I'm not going to enter a discussion where I know I am in the minority and then demand that the majority dial back their views to make me feel more at home. |
I'm not going to cherry pick your arguments. I've already said we have differing views on why people stopped posting. You can get all sanctimonious on me on why your arguments are better the DMR way.
Frankly right now they way I see it is you are debating why people are disagreeing and going way off topic. I'll just have to come to the conclusion that we disagree even to this most fundamental point. |
I'm not being "sanctimonious" all. You attempted to dismiss my comments as merely being my "opinion". I simply pointed out that no, there was factual basis to my comments and indicated what that basis was. You can either choose to acknowledge that is accurate (which it is) or you can attempt to spin it in an attempt to ignore that reality. The choice you make speaks to the quality of your position. |
LOL, there it is....DMR is always right.....  |
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Guys.. none of this is productive and only compounds the problem. You all stick to discussing the issues, let the mods handle the posters. Id just suggest avoiding the generalizations and trying to approach the opposite side with more empathy. It's tiring seeing everyone fight so much.
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | The point being that just because one isn't the worst of the worst, it doesn't mean they are above reproach. |
This is true, I agree. I'm not saying McMaster is a saint that should never be questioned. My point all along has been screaming "corruption" as the first response just makes me not want to listen to anything else the person has to say. It's silly. He's not some toad who used to associate with Trump before the election or gave tons of money to get his job. |
I don't disagree. It's certainly the position I take when someone rails about how miserably corrupt Hilary allegedly is. And I thought I was clear in my previous posts that I was not making that kind of extreme allegation and instead stating that regardless of McMasters apparent integrity, the fact that he chose to join an obviously dishonest administration that corrupts the system in order to dismantle the basic conventions of our political system and constitutional conventions calls that integrity into suspicion.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | DMR, those are your opinions. I have to respectfully disagree. I have discussed this with other posters who used to post in this thread and those are the reasons they have given to me why they no longer come to this thread. Take it for what its worth. |
No. The fact that I am a liberal and I have been warned by the staff is NOT an "opinion".
The fact that people have been suspended for ignoring direct warnings is NOT an "opinion".
Now I certainly can't speak for why people have decided on their own to not participate in this thread anymore. But I can say that anyone who has chosen not to participate has done so by their own and not because they were forced to. If someone finds their positions in the minority, they can choose to continue expressing that minority view, or they can decide that they don't want to participate in an arena where they are the minority viewpoint. But the responsibility for that decision resides with that individual. I'm not going to enter a discussion where I know I am in the minority and then demand that the majority dial back their views to make me feel more at home. |
I'm not going to cherry pick your arguments. I've already said we have differing views on why people stopped posting. You can get all sanctimonious on me on why your arguments are better the DMR way.
Frankly right now they way I see it is you are debating why people are disagreeing and going way off topic. I'll just have to come to the conclusion that we disagree even to this most fundamental point. |
I'm not being "sanctimonious" all. You attempted to dismiss my comments as merely being my "opinion". I simply pointed out that no, there was factual basis to my comments and indicated what that basis was. You can either choose to acknowledge that is accurate (which it is) or you can attempt to spin it in an attempt to ignore that reality. The choice you make speaks to the quality of your position. |
LOL, there it is....DMR is always right..... |
Out of respect for the staff, I'll just allow this quote tree speak for itself.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38774
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| DMR, I have nothing against you....I was just laughing at the absurdity of how we got here. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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The GOP has shown me just how corrupt politicians are. Trump has managed to pull the covers of some who had good reputations.
McMasters is an example of what money will do to a person. Is it about party or power? If it's about power he should understand Trump will always be the ringmaster and if his act doesn't live up to what The Donald wants it will be canceled. If it's about party I think I understand but makes me lose respect for him for putting party over the people. I know, I know, that's the norm.
Trump has no real allegiance to anyone. That should be evident by the people who he fired because he didn't think they were loyal to his cause. I think he'd throw anyone under the bus. Well maybe not some of his children.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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What has McMaster done other than joining the Trump administraction? If Trump asked me to be part of his cabinet, I would say yes. I might be fired the next day because I would still be me, trying to influence the administration in the right direction, but that would also be why I said yes. I think McMaster is in the same boat, it's just that for optics sake, Trump can't fire him yet. I don't blame him.
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Even McMasters is covering for Kushner now. What a corrupt lackey he turned out to be. What could possibly be in it for him? |
Or... maybe he's not a corrupt lackey.
The guy has a long history of distinguished service. |
Which is why I was questioning what's in it for him to fall on the sword for Trump here. He did it when Trump bragged to the Russians about having top secret (Israeli) information and now normalizing secret back channel communications between (yet again) Russia and guys in Trump's administration who have ALL lied about meetings with the Russians. |
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Wilt
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13725
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | What has McMaster done other than joining the Trump administraction? If Trump asked me to be part of his cabinet, I would say yes. I might be fired the next day because I would still be me, trying to influence the administration in the right direction, but that would also be why I said yes. I think McMaster is in the same boat, it's just that for optics sake, Trump can't fire him yet. I don't blame him. |
Well, let's see if he fires him in the next few months. For now, McMaster has tried to spin heavily to defend Trump (we've mentioned a couple instances earlier). Heck, it was beyond spinning, it was lying. I'm fine with a little bit of spinning (every official in every administration does it). If you work for Trump and if you're a reasonable person, the starting point without any spin is, "this is the biggest idiot I've ever seen." But McMaster has praised Trump's "leadership" on a number of issues to the public. At this point, if you're McMaster, you have to quit to maintain your integrity or have yourself fired. The longer he works there and the longer he praises Trump, the more he has to lie, and the more he loses his integrity. And it doesn't matter if the Senate initially supported him 100-0 and if he has 15 stars on his uniform, the minute he joined Trump and started praising him, he was no longer than same man he was a few months ago.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | What has McMaster done other than joining the Trump administraction? If Trump asked me to be part of his cabinet, I would say yes. I might be fired the next day because I would still be me, trying to influence the administration in the right direction, but that would also be why I said yes. I think McMaster is in the same boat, it's just that for optics sake, Trump can't fire him yet. I don't blame him. |
Well, let's see if he fires him in the next few months. For now, McMaster has tried to spin heavily to defend Trump (we've mentioned a couple instances earlier). Heck, it was beyond spinning, it was lying. I'm fine with a little bit of spinning (every official in every administration does it). If you work for Trump and if you're a reasonable person, the starting point without any spin is, "this is the biggest idiot I've ever seen." But McMaster has praised Trump's "leadership" on a number of issues to the public. At this point, if you're McMaster, you have to quit to maintain your integrity or have yourself fired. The longer he works there and the longer he praises Trump, the more he has to lie, and the more he loses his integrity. And it doesn't matter if the Senate initially supported him 100-0 and if he has 15 stars on his uniform, the minute he joined Trump and started praising him, he was no longer than same man he was a few months ago. |
I don't agree. I think he's trying to keep his job and effect positive change, but is not succeeding. |
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DaMuleRules
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Posts: 52651
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | What has McMaster done other than joining the Trump administraction? If Trump asked me to be part of his cabinet, I would say yes. I might be fired the next day because I would still be me, trying to influence the administration in the right direction, but that would also be why I said yes. I think McMaster is in the same boat, it's just that for optics sake, Trump can't fire him yet. I don't blame him. |
I get what you are saying, but this is exactly why I wouldn't accept a position the Trump administration. He wants only appearance and acquiescence. There's no chance to influence anything. He doesn't want guidance and the only influence he wants involves manipulating things to satisfy and tiny sphere of personal interests - all of which are antithetical to what is best for the people of this country.
The only thing one accomplishes by signing on to the Trump administration is to broadcast to the world that you are fine with dishonesty, racism, elitism and suppression of rights and equity. Which is why I am immediately suspicious of anyone who would enter into such an administration, regardless of their previous history. Every single appointee has been a charlatan and a destructive entity. And in fact, I am less suspicious of the Bannons etc. than I am the McMasters, because the motives of Bannon, DeVos etc. are obvious and pure to his history. McMaster definitely begs suspicion because you know his motives can't be pure.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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