|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
LakerSanity
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | | Yeah, it’s the dark side of the force |
That really hit home. Sometimes when I think about his cult followers I wonder if they realize the are cheering for Darth Vader. Maybe we need to call on the experts in cult deprogramming methods. |
Darth Trump. I like it.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | | We need to teach children starting in elementary school, through high school and college, how to think for themselves. Teach them how to think critically and how to logically analyze any topic. I had many, many teachers do this for me in the L.A. public school system and at UCLA. Of course it also starts with parents placing value in reading and education. |
Yes. I self-identify with scientific skepticism (LINK), and as such, have spent a lot of time reading about how people are fooled, and how they fool themselves. It includes aspects of cognitive and social psychology, logic, critical thinking, etc. After a while you develop a pretty good toolkit for separating reality from fiction, science from pseudoscience, and the way people reason from desired conclusion to fabricated justification. (It's best described in Carl Sagan's book Demon Haunted World). But it took a lot of effort and a lot of time to develop the chops.
And the downside is that holidays are downright painful, because I can hardly have a conversation with many of the friends and relatives I see once a year or so. It hurts to listen to them (and pointless to argue with them). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSanity wrote: | | ^And like an addict, maybe we've hit our low and are ready for rehab? |
I hear you have to hit rock bottom. I fear we're not there yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LarryCoon wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | We need to teach children starting in elementary school, through high school and college, how to think for themselves. Teach them how to think critically and how to logically analyze any topic. I had many, many teachers do this for me in the L.A. public school system and at UCLA. Of course it also starts with parents placing value in reading and education. |
Yes. I self-identify with scientific skepticism (LINK[/url), and as such, have spent a lot of time reading about how people are fooled, and how they fool themselves. It includes aspects of cognitive and social psychology, logic, critical thinking, etc. After a while you develop a pretty good toolkit for separating reality from fiction, science from pseudoscience, and the way people reason from desired conclusion to fabricated justification. (It's best described in Carl Sagan's book [url=https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469]Demon Haunted World). But it took a lot of effort and a lot of time to develop the chops.
And the downside is that holidays are downright painful, because I can hardly have a conversation with many of the friends and relatives I see once a year or so. It hurts to listen to them (and pointless to argue with them). |
Hmm, I'm actually unsure if it is the lack of critical thinking, or, the internet has put us in a bit of a paralysis by analysis state where everyone is an expert but everyone also has a million and one reasons as to why the other person is wrong.
Not saying teaching critical thinking would be wrong, but, a large reason IMO for the state that we're in has to do with both the leveling the information playing field (both in terms of access, volume, and ability to create) and now everyone is a skeptic and no one really knows what information is accurate or not but if it doesn't align with one's view then it is definitely wrong and I'll find some piece of information somewhere to prove it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | We are drowning in information, while starving for wisdom. The world henceforth will be run by synthesizers, people able to put together the right information at the right time, think critically about it, and make important choices wisely. E. O. Wilson
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/e_o_wilson_176377 |
I say we have become a species on remote control. Not slowing down enough to truly know what really means something to our life
Letting other people dictate what is meaningful
I would much rather see a child healed and its family not suffer for eternity in medical bills than know some already wealthier than needs be human gets a tax break
We've lost connection to each other is how I feel. People rarely think deeply and trust too many others. People don't think about the real REAL things that happen when we let our politicians feel entitled or the REAL things that happen when choose not to decide |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EldenCampbell
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 939
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Regardless of what happens with Al Franken, the allegations against Conyers are MUCH worse and have already been investigated. He needs to go, now. He holds one of the safest Democratic seats in the country, so politics is no reason for delay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hector the Pup
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29282
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
The conversation you guys are having in here reminds me alot of the conversations Ta-Nehisi Coates and President Obama had when he was in office. Coates talks in detail about it in his most recent book.
To put their debate as simply as possible. Obama (ever the optimist) argued the majority of people who believed in fake news are just misinformed people who don't have the time (or mental aptitude) to fact check what they read/hear/watch.
Coates (considers himself a realist) argued the majority of people have their own prejudices/beliefs and they actively seek out "news" that agrees with their own thoughts.
I agree with Coates. Laws that demand equal rights for women and minority groups don't erase the prejudice/discrimination in a society. They make it unlawful. But they don't change the hearts and minds of the people. That's why people who wanted to call Barack the N-word (but couldn't) identified him as "other" (a Muslim, a Kenyan, etc). They weren't tricked by right wing news. They already had their beliefs in regards to a minority President, and they worked backwards from there to get their "news". The same argument could be applied to most issues that separate Dems and GOPers. Like women's reproductive rights, sexual education for minors, progressive activist groups (Antifa, BLM), trickle down economics, believing (or not believing) sexual assault victims. The list goes on and on.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Huskers
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Nebraska
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Anti-LGBTQ state senator in Oklahoma, who helped run the Trump campain in Oklahoma busted for child trafficking.
| Quote: | Former Oklahoma state Sen. Ralph Shortey has reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors months after investigators uncovered a secret life that they say involved child pornography and a rendezvous with a 17-year-old boy he had met through Craigslist’s personal ads.
Shortey, a Republican who resigned last spring amid allegations that he had solicited sex from the teen, will plead guilty to a child sex trafficking charge, his attorney, Ed Blau, said. Prosecutors will drop three child pornography charges as part of the plea deal.
...
Shortey, an early supporter of President Trump, is known for his strong stance against illegal immigration and gun control. He also routinely voted in favor of bills targeting members of the LGBT community, the AP reported.
Recently, he proposed a bill that would ban sanctuary cities in Oklahoma. Senate Bill 573 was introduced last month, and Shortey’s name was removed as author last week.
In 2012, he stirred controversy by authoring an ill-fated bill to prohibit “the manufacture or sale of food products which use aborted human fetuses.” |
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/?utm_term=.c4e846a5a9c4 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73062
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | The conversation you guys are having in here reminds me alot of the conversations Ta-Nehisi Coates and President Obama had when he was in office. Coates talks in detail about it in his most recent book.
To put their debate as simply as possible. Obama (ever the optimist) argued the majority of people who believed in fake news are just misinformed people who don't have the time (or mental aptitude) to fact check what they read/hear/watch.
Coates (considers himself a realist) argued the majority of people have their own prejudices/beliefs and they actively seek out "news" that agrees with their own thoughts.
I agree with Coates. Laws that demand equal rights for women and minority groups don't erase the prejudice/discrimination in a society. They make it unlawful. But they don't change the hearts and minds of the people. That's why people who wanted to call Barack the N-word (but couldn't) identified him as "other" (a Muslim, a Kenyan, etc). They weren't tricked by right wing news. They already had their beliefs in regards to a minority President, and they worked backwards from there to get their "news". The same argument could be applied to most issues that separate Dems and GOPers. Like women's reproductive rights, sexual education for minors, progressive activist groups (Antifa, BLM), trickle down economics, believing (or not believing) sexual assault victims. The list goes on and on. |
I think the bolded is where those who disagree with you would point to. From where did they get their beliefs? Some would say, formed out of misinformation or lack of education, etc.
I really think the problem is that there is just too much information now and to some degree, that the inmates have more control over the aslyum so to speak.
We probably needed to steer away from a rank and file type culture but now we're nearing a state of social anarchy and that's what we're seeing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hoopschick29
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 12898
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | The conversation you guys are having in here reminds me alot of the conversations Ta-Nehisi Coates and President Obama had when he was in office. Coates talks in detail about it in his most recent book.
To put their debate as simply as possible. Obama (ever the optimist) argued the majority of people who believed in fake news are just misinformed people who don't have the time (or mental aptitude) to fact check what they read/hear/watch.
Coates (considers himself a realist) argued the majority of people have their own prejudices/beliefs and they actively seek out "news" that agrees with their own thoughts.
I agree with Coates. Laws that demand equal rights for women and minority groups don't erase the prejudice/discrimination in a society. They make it unlawful. But they don't change the hearts and minds of the people. That's why people who wanted to call Barack the N-word (but couldn't) identified him as "other" (a Muslim, a Kenyan, etc). They weren't tricked by right wing news. They already had their beliefs in regards to a minority President, and they worked backwards from there to get their "news". The same argument could be applied to most issues that separate Dems and GOPers. Like women's reproductive rights, sexual education for minors, progressive activist groups (Antifa, BLM), trickle down economics, believing (or not believing) sexual assault victims. The list goes on and on. |
The Law of Conservation of Energy - 'Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed from one form to another.'
_________________
So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17658
Location: Orlando
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This could be good. A middle ground is optimal here. People don't know what they want. Let's be real. Most people see "neutrality" or "equality" and jump all aboard while, as we discussed earlier, continuing to remain misinformed. Hey, it must be good if the label says "natural" right? Right?
The BEST solution is a middle ground.
If we had "cable TV" neutrality, then the average cable bill would be 2x-3x what it is now because everyone would have to pay for all channels rather than packages as it stands today.
You don't want neutrality/equality because the internet isn't really equal or neutral. Agreed that the marketing word "neutral" sounds better but you don't want that. You want a non-neutral and competitive internet with some very basic regulations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73062
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Trump endorsed Roy Moore today.
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25080
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | | Trump endorsed Roy Moore today. |
This has to be a short term thing, GOP has to suffer the consequences long term. People are not blind and I hope they’re better than this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17658
Location: Orlando
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: |
This could be good. A middle ground is optimal here. People don't know what they want. Let's be real. Most people see "neutrality" or "equality" and jump all aboard while, as we discussed earlier, continuing to remain misinformed. Hey, it must be good if the label says "natural" right? Right?
The BEST solution is a middle ground.
If we had "cable TV" neutrality, then the average cable bill would be 2x-3x what it is now because everyone would have to pay for all channels rather than packages as it stands today.
You don't want neutrality/equality because the internet isn't really equal or neutral. Agreed that the marketing word "neutral" sounds better but you don't want that. You want a non-neutral and competitive internet with some very basic regulations. |
Yea, no. I want what net neutrality protects. You can call it what you want to call it. I want internet services to be common carriers. I don't want Spectrum deciding that sites like Lakersground or Reddit need to be moved to a "Discussion Tier" that I need to pay $3.99 a month to access on top of what I already pay for general internet access. I want to be able to access Netflix and Amazon Prime at the same speed, and not have them throttled because Spectrum has decided its streaming service gets priority. I want small startups who can't pay for preferential bandwidth still be able to be accessed the same as services from huge companies that can pay. I want open access to the internet. I don't want a walled garden like Prodigy or AOL where they decide what you can access. I don't want access to certain sites blocked pr massively slowed because the site owners haven't paid up. I don't want access to the New York Times to be blocked or slowed because my ISP happens to have conservative views and sees them as "fake news" (or hell same for Fox News if that's your thing). Plain and simple: I want ALL internet traffic treated equally. I want to be charged only for using data, not what I use the data for.
And your cable TV comparison is ridiculous because that is exactly what the internet could become. We'd get internet "packages" where you pay for certain bundles based on content type. So "bundles" just like cable TV where you get a "News Tier" a "Sports Tier" an "Entertainment Tier" and "Music Tier".
I don't want things like when AMC was gone off a bunch of cable TV providers because AMC and the cable company had a dispute. "Oh look Spectrum has blocked your access to Google because they have a dispute about YouTube TV."
Or you could get things like your rates getting jacked on your entire package like what happens when ESPN paid a (bleep) for broadcast rights and pass them on to the cable companies who pass them on to you because ESPN is bundled with every cable package. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^^Any of these service providers receive government incentives for building the bandwidth or is all private equity
Sounds like a way they can micromanage the internet and squeeze more money put of you while probably screwing up the experience
Is it really broken? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thought of a good headline that might really piss off Trump
Who has more open claims of sexual harassment against them
Bill Clinton or Donald Trump |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| trmiv wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
This could be good. A middle ground is optimal here. People don't know what they want. Let's be real. Most people see "neutrality" or "equality" and jump all aboard while, as we discussed earlier, continuing to remain misinformed. Hey, it must be good if the label says "natural" right? Right?
The BEST solution is a middle ground.
If we had "cable TV" neutrality, then the average cable bill would be 2x-3x what it is now because everyone would have to pay for all channels rather than packages as it stands today.
You don't want neutrality/equality because the internet isn't really equal or neutral. Agreed that the marketing word "neutral" sounds better but you don't want that. You want a non-neutral and competitive internet with some very basic regulations. |
Yea, no. I want what net neutrality protects. You can call it what you want to call it. I want internet services to be common carriers. I don't want Spectrum deciding that sites like Lakersground or Reddit need to be moved to a "Discussion Tier" that I need to pay $3.99 a month to access on top of what I already pay for general internet access. I want to be able to access Netflix and Amazon Prime at the same speed, and not have them throttled because Spectrum has decided its streaming service gets priority. I want small startups who can't pay for preferential bandwidth still be able to be accessed the same as services from huge companies that can pay. I want open access to the internet. I don't want a walled garden like Prodigy or AOL where they decide what you can access. I don't want access to certain sites blocked pr massively slowed because the site owners haven't paid up. I don't want access to the New York Times to be blocked or slowed because my ISP happens to have conservative views and sees them as "fake news" (or hell same for Fox News if that's your thing). Plain and simple: I want ALL internet traffic treated equally. I want to be charged only for using data, not what I use the data for.
And your cable TV comparison is ridiculous because that is exactly what the internet could become. We'd get internet "packages" where you pay for certain bundles based on content type. So "bundles" just like cable TV where you get a "News Tier" a "Sports Tier" an "Entertainment Tier" and "Music Tier".
I don't want things like when AMC was gone off a bunch of cable TV providers because AMC and the cable company had a dispute. "Oh look Spectrum has blocked your access to Google because they have a dispute about YouTube TV."
Or you could get things like your rates getting jacked on your entire package like what happens when ESPN paid a (bleep) for broadcast rights and pass them on to the cable companies who pass them on to you because ESPN is bundled with every cable package. |
Ok, so you don't like pay-per-view then. You'd rather have it where everyone, including low income, have to subsidize and pay for you to be able to watch the MMA fight at a lower cost eh? Is that what it's about?
It's funny because I hear everyone saying man, I sure wish I could sign up for cable a la carte, like, just pay for the channels I want but then they are for net neutrality. Huh? Can't have your cake and eat it too. Everyone is going to pay for access to NFL League Pass whether you watch it or not. You're going to pay for Bravo whether you want to or not. And Showtime. And MLB full season package streaming. And Golf channel. Bits are bits!
I always find it funny when people say well "this could happen". Ok, well, it COULD also happen that ISPs could offer a slower data option for lower income folks. Throttle that data, charge less, and up the price for for non-throttled data for heavier users. A good thing.
Anyway, this is why I say, the optimal answer is somewhere in between. There should be a "fast lane" for content like video.
There should be a "fast lane" or "high priority lane" perhaps for hospitals or other first responder type situations.
And the "slow lane" should be regulated to ensure it meets certain minimal standards.
That is not net neutrality, but that is better than net neutrality. It's just an "organic!" label people are glomming on to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Time to push more state legislatures to preserve net neutrality, I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24165
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Bill Kristol Verified account @BillKristol
The GOP tax bill's bringing out my inner socialist. The sex scandals are bringing out my inner feminist. Donald Trump and Roy Moore are bringing out my inner liberal.
WHAT IS HAPPENING? |
Well, some old dogs are capable of learning new tricks...
Actually, some of the best reads on Twitter are from Never-Trump conservatives. They loathe him even more than liberals because he's destroying their party -- the reality and the myth.
It's also interesting that as he was "cut off" from his "tribe" he started seeing some things through new eyes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24165
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What if your ISP decided you don't really need LG that badly and puts in the slow lane and it takes a full minute for the page to load? Are the "both sides" people still on board?
/rhetorical question |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChickenBeckerman
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 2060
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I always knew there was something wrong with that guy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24165
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Also today, Trump came out in support of Moore because, duh, sexual predators gotta stick together. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
