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lakerjoshua
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
The freaking President put a 4 letter word in play. He also pulled out of a trip to the UK for fear of being protested. That standard visit to Canada? Nope. Train wrecks are embarrassed by being compared to him.

Shame on anyone who voted for him. There is no defense for it.


I have an idiot brother in law who still defends Trump.

I kid you not his usual lines:

- "The Democrats are just attaacking him!"
- "He just wants to make America great again".

Combined with also being a tool, it takes all my will power not to slap his hair clean off.


Both comments by brother in law are my voice activated instant lock code on my bunker door.

In more accurate terms, it makes my butt pucker.

(Instant lock codes being reprogrammed)
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-cut-the-debt-the-gop-should-focus-on-health-care-costs/

Really interesting article.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-cut-the-debt-the-gop-should-focus-on-health-care-costs/

Really interesting article.


Another really interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/deficit-tax-cuts-trump.html

Paul Ryan does not actually care about the debt or the deficit, he uses those as a scare tactic to get to his endgame: cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Paul Ryan hates poor people.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Quote:
Hillary Clinton‏Verified account @HillaryClinton
The anniversary of the devastating earthquake 8 years ago is a day to remember the tragedy, honor the resilient people of Haiti, & affirm America’s commitment to helping our neighbors. Instead, we‘re subjected to Trump’s ignorant, racist views of anyone who doesn’t look like him.

Hillary Clinton needs to answer for her actions in Honduras and Haiti
By Karen Attiah | March 10, 2016
Quote:
This time, the scene is Port-Au-Prince, Haiti, in January 2011. Though the uprisings in Egypt were in full swing, then-Secretary of State Clinton paid a personal visit to Haiti shortly after the first round of the country’s presidential election, on Nov. 28, 2010. It quickly became clear that the pop singer-turned-candidate Michel Martelly, whom The Post in 2002 characterized as “favorite of the thugs who worked on behalf of the hated Duvalier family dictatorship before its 1986 collapse,” was Washington’s pick to win. Though the voting was badly marred by irregularities (the United States had pushed for quick polls), the OAS went even further and declared — without evidence — that Martelly had qualified for the final round over the incumbent party’s candidate. Rather than rerun the preliminary round and let the Haitian people choose, Clinton reportedly pressured then-President René Préval with the loss of U.S. and international aid unless the election results were changed to fit the OAS’s recommendation.

Préval’s electoral commission backed down, and Martelly won an election with only 25 percent turnout. Fast-forward to today, and Haiti is still in the grips of political crisis. In Martelly’s four years in office, Haiti never held a election, and as terms ran out on parliament members, only 11 elected officials were left in the country. A New York Times article documented the criminal activities of his friends and aides, who had been charged with crimes ranging from kidnapping to rape, murder and drug trafficking. Martelly stepped down at the end of this term in February amid violent rallies for his removal and disputed election results, without a successor in place. The country has postponed its elections yet again, and fresh political standoffs are underway, despite the United States spending $30 million on Haiti’s elections.

Jonathan Katz, former Associated Press correspondent in Haiti and author of “The Big Truck That Went By: How the World Came to Save Haiti and Left Behind a Disaster,” had this to say in an interview about Clinton’s record in Haiti:

Quote:
“There’s nowhere Clinton had more influence or respect when she became Secretary of State than in Haiti, and it was clear that she planned to use that to make Haiti the proving ground for her vision of American power. By now I’d imagine she was expecting to constantly be pointing to Haiti on the campaign trail as one of the great successes of her diplomatic career. Instead it’s one of her biggest disappointments by nearly any measure, with the wreckage of the Martelly administration she played a larger role than anyone in installing being the biggest and latest example.”


Manolia Charlotin, a Haitian journalist based in New York, said Clinton’s actions should draw questions as to how Clinton would act should she become president: “What does that mean as to her approach to foreign policy? To have a secretary of state visit a country, to make a stop, and as a result of that meeting, you have an illegal selection of leaders? How does that decision promote the American views of democracy?”

The Washington Post
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject:

Christopher C wrote:
tox wrote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-cut-the-debt-the-gop-should-focus-on-health-care-costs/

Really interesting article.


Another really interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/deficit-tax-cuts-trump.html

Paul Ryan does not actually care about the debt or the deficit, he uses those as a scare tactic to get to his endgame: cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Paul Ryan hates poor people.


Yes, the dirty not so secret of the GOP as a whole is this. What we consider the bugs in their policies, the parts that damage and destroy the poor, minorities and women, are in fact features to them.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

And that is the true horror of the false equivalency argument. You can disagree with a Schiff, or Clinton, or Pelosi, or Ellison, or Sanders, or Schumer (and there are legitimate things to disagree about), but one thing you know about all of them is that they want a country where everyone, including poor, women, and minority people, have enough to eat, somewhere to sleep, an education, and adequate, quality health care. The entirety of the gop is willing to deny those things to groups of people, and many of them want to do it on purpose to punish those people for merely existing in their wealthy white male world.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
And that is the true horror of the false equivalency argument. You can disagree with a Schiff, or Clinton, or Pelosi, or Ellison, or Sanders, or Schumer (and there are legitimate things to disagree about), but one thing you know about all of them is that they want a country where everyone, including poor, women, and minority people, have enough to eat, somewhere to sleep, an education, and adequate, quality health care. The entirety of the gop is willing to deny those things to groups of people, and many of them want to do it on purpose to punish those people for merely existing in their wealthy white male world.


Alot of poor white male conservatives don't realize (or maybe don't care) that they are getting screwed over as well. As long as there is a group worse off, who's getting screwed harder. That poor whites in the GOP base can blame all their problems on.
Can't get a job? Block non-white immigrants from our country.
Caught your kid with drugs? Must be those mexicans or blacks who gave it to him.
Paycheck smaller than you'd like? Must be all those taxes to pay for lazy minorities.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
And that is the true horror of the false equivalency argument. You can disagree with a Schiff, or Clinton, or Pelosi, or Ellison, or Sanders, or Schumer (and there are legitimate things to disagree about), but one thing you know about all of them is that they want a country where everyone, including poor, women, and minority people, have enough to eat, somewhere to sleep, an education, and adequate, quality health care. The entirety of the gop is willing to deny those things to groups of people, and many of them want to do it on purpose to punish those people for merely existing in their wealthy white male world.


Alot of poor white male conservatives don't realize (or maybe don't care) that they are getting screwed over as well. As long as there is a group worse off, who's getting screwed harder. That poor whites in the GOP base can blame all their problems on.
Can't get a job? Block non-white immigrants from our country.
Caught your kid with drugs? Must be those mexicans or blacks who gave it to him.
Paycheck smaller than you'd like? Must be all those taxes to pay for lazy minorities.


https://mobile.twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/925495970032443392?
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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject:

Kim Jong trolling Hawaii
Or Putin
??

Quote:



BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL,” it read.





Hawaii Panics After Alert About Incoming Missile Is Sent in Error
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
And that is the true horror of the false equivalency argument. You can disagree with a Schiff, or Clinton, or Pelosi, or Ellison, or Sanders, or Schumer (and there are legitimate things to disagree about), but one thing you know about all of them is that they want a country where everyone, including poor, women, and minority people, have enough to eat, somewhere to sleep, an education, and adequate, quality health care. The entirety of the gop is willing to deny those things to groups of people, and many of them want to do it on purpose to punish those people for merely existing in their wealthy white male world.


Sadly, there are a some on the very left and libertarian leaning peeps who don't care about those populations either.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

This is a right-wing, pro-Trump, Fox news personality:

Quote:
Erick Erickson✔@EWErickson

It’s weird that people in the room don’t remember Trump using that word when Trump himself was calling friends to brag about it afterwards. I spoke to one of those friends. The President thought it would play well with the base.

10:54 AM - Jan 14, 2018


President S******e called to brag about being a (bleep) racist.
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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject:

http://www.breakingburgh.com/norway-renames-(bleep)-solidarity-countries-trump-insulted/

Quote:
“We Norwegians are a pragmatic people who don’t much care what the country is called. If renaming it (bleep) sends a progressive message of goodwill then that’s what being Norwegian is all about.”

After passing quickly through parliament and being approved by King Harald V, Norway will be known as (bleep) as of noon CET (officially the Kingdom of (bleep)), or Dritthull in Norwegian.

“If Trump wants us, we’ll be coming from (bleep).”
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
And that is the true horror of the false equivalency argument. You can disagree with a Schiff, or Clinton, or Pelosi, or Ellison, or Sanders, or Schumer (and there are legitimate things to disagree about), but one thing you know about all of them is that they want a country where everyone, including poor, women, and minority people, have enough to eat, somewhere to sleep, an education, and adequate, quality health care. The entirety of the gop is willing to deny those things to groups of people, and many of them want to do it on purpose to punish those people for merely existing in their wealthy white male world.


Alot of poor white male conservatives don't realize (or maybe don't care) that they are getting screwed over as well. As long as there is a group worse off, who's getting screwed harder. That poor whites in the GOP base can blame all their problems on.
Can't get a job? Block non-white immigrants from our country.
Caught your kid with drugs? Must be those mexicans or blacks who gave it to him.
Paycheck smaller than you'd like? Must be all those taxes to pay for lazy minorities.


"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." — LBJ
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Christopher C wrote:
tox wrote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-cut-the-debt-the-gop-should-focus-on-health-care-costs/

Really interesting article.


Another really interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/deficit-tax-cuts-trump.html

Paul Ryan does not actually care about the debt or the deficit, he uses those as a scare tactic to get to his endgame: cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Paul Ryan hates poor people.


Quote:
Senator Bob Corker, Republican of Tennessee, said, “If I think it adds one penny to the deficit, I’m not going to vote for it.”


lol. Thanks for the read. I agree with your conclusion about Ryan, but I'd need to do more research on this particular article's premise about the deficit not really mattering.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
This is a right-wing, pro-Trump, Fox news personality:

Quote:
Erick Erickson✔@EWErickson

It’s weird that people in the room don’t remember Trump using that word when Trump himself was calling friends to brag about it afterwards. I spoke to one of those friends. The President thought it would play well with the base.

10:54 AM - Jan 14, 2018


President S******e called to brag about being a (bleep) racist.


His new Homeland Security secretary - whom the media promoted as a great pick a few weeks ago - appeared on Fox News Sunday and said she didn't recall what he said. She was there with the senators in the same room. Even Chris Wallace didn't buy it. It's amazing how he poisons everything. She knew he was watching her on TV.
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Christopher C
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Christopher C wrote:
tox wrote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-cut-the-debt-the-gop-should-focus-on-health-care-costs/

Really interesting article.

Another really interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/deficit-tax-cuts-trump.html

Paul Ryan does not actually care about the debt or the deficit, he uses those as a scare tactic to get to his endgame: cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Paul Ryan hates poor people.

Quote:
Senator Bob Corker, Republican of Tennessee, said, “If I think it adds one penny to the deficit, I’m not going to vote for it.”

lol. Thanks for the read. I agree with your conclusion about Ryan, but I'd need to do more research on this particular article's premise about the deficit not really mattering.

Kelton and other MMTers do think the deficit matters, but they don't subscribe to the notion that it represents an imminent disaster. From my understanding, the things that MMT finds problematic and worth focusing on are inflation, unemployment, and economic inequality. I would encourage everyone who is interested in politics to research Modern Monetary Theory. Here's a couple of more in depth podcast interviews with professor Kelton: YouTube & Soundcloud
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

The problem with mmt is that, like supply side economics, it has structural holes that you could drive a truck through. Though opposed to each other, they are very similar in that they start with ideological wish thought , which they buttress with a lot of factual data, some contextually and relationally questionable supposition and theory, and some obfuscation of the structural weak spots.
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Christopher C
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The problem with mmt is that [...] it has structural holes that you could drive a truck through.

Such as?
Quote:
[MMT] start[s] with ideological wish thought

Such as?
Quote:
some contextually and relationally questionable supposition and theory, and some obfuscation of the structural weak spots.

Have any examples?

Congratulations on your word salad, though I'm not convinced.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Wilt wrote:
tox wrote:

Same coin on the issue of warrantless spying, sure. On almost every other issue, they are two separate coins (this metaphor sucks)


Yep. Adam Schiff and other Dems are wrong on this issue, but I probably agree with them on 90% of the issues. Schiff is a great representative and the people in his district are lucky to have him. I could have easily abandoned Bernie Sanders due to his stance on guns and his inability to say anything on foreign policy besides "I was against the Iraq War," but I didn't. Some liberals expect perfection from their representatives, and that's how Republicans win. So to take this one issue and brand Schiff as just another establishment politician and equal to Republicans is intellectually dishonest.


I'm a Schiff supporter. I have to wonder if quid pro quo was involved.


Schiff serves as ranking member on the intelligence committee, meaning he gets the full intel brief. While I, in my situation of not getting the intel think that there isn't a good reason to need wireless wiretapping, others disagree, and not for corrupt reasons. I happen to think the death penalty is unconscionable, but people I consider good and whom I respect believe in it. Sometimes we can have disagreements on hot button issues.


There's no intel that justifies compromising citizens right's in regards to being spied upon by one's own government.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Wilt wrote:
tox wrote:

Same coin on the issue of warrantless spying, sure. On almost every other issue, they are two separate coins (this metaphor sucks)


Yep. Adam Schiff and other Dems are wrong on this issue, but I probably agree with them on 90% of the issues. Schiff is a great representative and the people in his district are lucky to have him. I could have easily abandoned Bernie Sanders due to his stance on guns and his inability to say anything on foreign policy besides "I was against the Iraq War," but I didn't. Some liberals expect perfection from their representatives, and that's how Republicans win. So to take this one issue and brand Schiff as just another establishment politician and equal to Republicans is intellectually dishonest.


I'm a Schiff supporter. I have to wonder if quid pro quo was involved.


Schiff serves as ranking member on the intelligence committee, meaning he gets the full intel brief. While I, in my situation of not getting the intel think that there isn't a good reason to need wireless wiretapping, others disagree, and not for corrupt reasons. I happen to think the death penalty is unconscionable, but people I consider good and whom I respect believe in it. Sometimes we can have disagreements on hot button issues.


There's no intel that justifies compromising citizens right's in regards to being spied upon by one's own government.


Of course there is. Ever hear of a search warrant? How do you suppose one of those is issued? On the basis of probable cause. And how is probable cause generated? By law enforcement spying on people.

Of course there are two major things you would bring up, and rightfully so: warrants, and law enforcement vs intelligence. But both of those are procedural and legal distinctions that have been made and changed over time (the nsa and cia didn’t exist at the time of the constitution, nor did electronic conversation). I happen to believe strongly in the fourth amendment and privacy, and have pretty firm ideas where I think boundaries should lie, but I also understand there are arguments on the other side, even if I find them wrong. And I know people I respect who disagree with me on this, who I nonetheless consider good, well meaning people. I apply the same to folks in politics. And that was my point about Schiff, not that I agree, but that there are reasons beyond “he’s just part of conspiracy x” that he might feel the way he does.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject:

Christopher C wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem with mmt is that [...] it has structural holes that you could drive a truck through.

Such as?
Quote:
[MMT] start[s] with ideological wish thought

Such as?
Quote:
some contextually and relationally questionable supposition and theory, and some obfuscation of the structural weak spots.

Have any examples?

Congratulations on your word salad, though I'm not convinced.


The rationality and harmonious intent of actors assumption.

The lack of understanding of the non linear results of injecting liquidity into a complex economic marketplace. I.E. the smoothing of inflationary concerns with very linear and hypothetical assumptions.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

MMT Basics
https://youtu.be/TDL4c8fMODk

Never really looked into it before but the video does make some good points.

It never made sense to me how a goverment can go broke when it has the authority to issue money because currency is only an idea (paper) that we decided should have value. I mean its not even real when you think about it.

But with all radical ideas if we proceed it should be with caution
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
MMT Basics
https://youtu.be/TDL4c8fMODk

Never really looked into it before but the video does make some good points.

It never made sense to me how a goverment can go broke when it has the authority to issue money because currency is only an idea (paper) that we decided should have value. I mean its not even real when you think about it.

But with all radical ideas if we proceed it should be with caution


That is true in a narrow sense, if you determine that the effects on the national and global marketplace don't matter, then yes, a government can create money any time it wants to pay its debts, or to give away, or for any reason whatsoever. Money is real based on agreed upon rules of how it is created and exchanged.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-trump-poll-781668

The majority of Republicans are pleased with the direction of the country under Donald Trump, with satisfaction among party members the highest it has been since 2007, a new survey has revealed.
A poll from Gallup, released on Monday, showed that 61 percent of Republicans are satisfied with the way things are going in the country, while just six percent of Democrats and seven percent of Independents feel the same.
And among the GOP voters who were questioned by the poll, which was conducted between January 2-7, one in four said they were “very satisfied” with the direction of the country, while 23 percent of Republicans said they were dissatisfied and 15 percent were very dissatisfied.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-trump-poll-781668

The majority of Republicans are pleased with the direction of the country under Donald Trump, with satisfaction among party members the highest it has been since 2007, a new survey has revealed.
A poll from Gallup, released on Monday, showed that 61 percent of Republicans are satisfied with the way things are going in the country, while just six percent of Democrats and seven percent of Independents feel the same.
And among the GOP voters who were questioned by the poll, which was conducted between January 2-7, one in four said they were “very satisfied” with the direction of the country, while 23 percent of Republicans said they were dissatisfied and 15 percent were very dissatisfied.


Trump's not the problem...republican are .
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