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ribeye
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 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Do you like Warren’s plan of student loan erasement but with income requirements or Bernie’s (all student loans) |
I don't like either.
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Do you like Warren’s plan of student loan erasement but with income requirements or Bernie’s (all student loans) |
I don't like either. |
The concept or the detail? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Do you like Warren’s plan of student loan erasement but with income requirements or Bernie’s (all student loans) |
I don't like either. |
The concept or the detail? |
I suppose the concept of some relief might work, but not to the extreme of either plans.
I like the idea of setting the interest rate to the prime rate that banks pay and I would be in favor of assisting those who were screwed-over by some of the private colleges, like Trump's.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/23/politics/bernie-sanders-student-loan-debt-cancellation/index.html
On Monday, Sanders will submit legislation that cancels $1.6 trillion of student loan undergraduate and graduate debt for approximately 45 million people. His ambitious plan has no eligibility limitations and would be paid for with a new tax on Wall Street speculation. |
I’m sure that somewhere there is some math where this pencils out as a good thing to do for the economy. Would love to see that. Intuitively, saddling a generation with insane amounts of debt just to go to college can’t be a good thing. |
It's one economic policy that I think undoubtedly would stimulate the economy with a "trickle down" - though it's really more a trickle out. Unlike tax breaks for the wealthy or corporations, removing the burden of student debt for middle class and lower middle class families is bound to put more money out in the economy - it's a no brainer that such families will utilize the money saved by putting it into commerce.
It just comes down to implementation. I don't think you can have a program where only some people qualify - the idea of having to arbitrarily draw a line in the sand as to who gets relief and who doesn't seems inequitable. If you pay it off for all, you run into the obvious issue of not everyone having the same level of debt. So there's an inequity in person A getting a bigger stipend than person B and how you justify that? So is setting a certain amount for each recipient the way to go? If you do, does that really resolve the problem of debt since most would still retain some of their debt.
I wish I could say I saw an obvious answer. I just know that of all the things we can do economically, a solid and executable proposal in this area is most likely to provide the biggest bang for it's buck and I don't see that there is a downside if the source of funding is appropriately designed.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Do you like Warren’s plan of student loan erasement but with income requirements or Bernie’s (all student loans) |
There's two parts to my answer: the existing situation and a full solution.
In an existing model I would prefer some means testing and take care of the four year degrees first. That's where the most harm to the most people is right now. Very similar to how I see in the short term strengthening and preserving Obamacare (while I favor single payer in the future).
In the longer term, I would like to see kids being able to get at least a four year degree, and within limits (you don't necessarily want to fund professional students, for example), advanced degrees, on the public dollar. There would need to be corresponding taxes of course, as well as constraints on some levels of compensation, and I would like to see a public service obligation intertwined.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/23/politics/bernie-sanders-student-loan-debt-cancellation/index.html
On Monday, Sanders will submit legislation that cancels $1.6 trillion of student loan undergraduate and graduate debt for approximately 45 million people. His ambitious plan has no eligibility limitations and would be paid for with a new tax on Wall Street speculation. |
I’m sure that somewhere there is some math where this pencils out as a good thing to do for the economy. Would love to see that. Intuitively, saddling a generation with insane amounts of debt just to go to college can’t be a good thing. |
It's one economic policy that I think undoubtedly would stimulate the economy with a "trickle down" - though it's really more a trickle out. Unlike tax breaks for the wealthy or corporations, removing the burden of student debt for middle class and lower middle class families is bound to put more money out in the economy - it's a no brainer that such families will utilize the money saved by putting it into commerce.
It just comes down to implementation. I don't think you can have a program where only some people qualify - the idea of having to arbitrarily draw a line in the sand as to who gets relief and who doesn't seems inequitable. If you pay it off for all, you run into the obvious issue of not everyone having the same level of debt. So there's an inequity in person A getting a bigger stipend than person B and how you justify that? So is setting a certain amount for each recipient the way to go? If you do, does that really resolve the problem of debt since most would still retain some of their debt.
I wish I could say I saw an obvious answer. I just know that of all the things we can do economically, a solid and executable proposal in this area is most likely to provide the biggest bang for it's buck and I don't see that there is a downside if the source of funding is appropriately designed. |
A sliding scale would work. Don't just arbitrarily cut it off. Phase it out over a broader slope. And do something similar for the non college people.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | governator wrote: | https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/23/politics/bernie-sanders-student-loan-debt-cancellation/index.html
On Monday, Sanders will submit legislation that cancels $1.6 trillion of student loan undergraduate and graduate debt for approximately 45 million people. His ambitious plan has no eligibility limitations and would be paid for with a new tax on Wall Street speculation. |
I’m sure that somewhere there is some math where this pencils out as a good thing to do for the economy. Would love to see that. Intuitively, saddling a generation with insane amounts of debt just to go to college can’t be a good thing. |
It's one economic policy that I think undoubtedly would stimulate the economy with a "trickle down" - though it's really more a trickle out. Unlike tax breaks for the wealthy or corporations, removing the burden of student debt for middle class and lower middle class families is bound to put more money out in the economy - it's a no brainer that such families will utilize the money saved by putting it into commerce.
It just comes down to implementation. I don't think you can have a program where only some people qualify - the idea of having to arbitrarily draw a line in the sand as to who gets relief and who doesn't seems inequitable. If you pay it off for all, you run into the obvious issue of not everyone having the same level of debt. So there's an inequity in person A getting a bigger stipend than person B and how you justify that? So is setting a certain amount for each recipient the way to go? If you do, does that really resolve the problem of debt since most would still retain some of their debt.
I wish I could say I saw an obvious answer. I just know that of all the things we can do economically, a solid and executable proposal in this area is most likely to provide the biggest bang for it's buck and I don't see that there is a downside if the source of funding is appropriately designed. |
A sliding scale would work. Don't just arbitrarily cut it off. Phase it out over a broader slope. And do something similar for the non college people. |
Thank you for mentioning that. That was an aspect of the issue I meant to bring up. There does need to be something that provides similar relief to others outside of the student debt realm or else it introduces another inequity.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Do you like Warren’s plan of student loan erasement but with income requirements or Bernie’s (all student loans) |
There's two parts to my answer: the existing situation and a full solution.
In an existing model I would prefer some means testing and take care of the four year degrees first. That's where the most harm to the most people is right now. Very similar to how I see in the short term strengthening and preserving Obamacare (while I favor single payer in the future).
In the longer term, I would like to see kids being able to get at least a four year degree, and within limits (you don't necessarily want to fund professional students, for example), advanced degrees, on the public dollar. There would need to be corresponding taxes of course, as well as constraints on some levels of compensation, and I would like to see a public service obligation intertwined. |
Sound good, the biggest problem is the tuition price, fix that first. There’s already a model for public service obligations in lieu of paying tuition, Ex: military scholarship for doctors. Upon graduation of medical school, commissioned as Captain and work a yr of military doctor service for each tuition yr paid out |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| What to do with guaranteed loans provided to all college students? Continue it but put regulations to curb tuition? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts?
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts? |
I would start with those and in that order. They are paramount to the health of the nation's future (no pun intended). A safer, better and more prepared life and making it easier to afford those are the top priorities. I think the next step is addressing the programs that will help stimulate the economy by improving the financial viability of the lower and middle classes who will put that money back into the system.
But your point stands. There is a great deal to address and limited options for doing so.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts? |
I would start with those and in that order. They are paramount to the health of the nation's future (no pun intended). A safer, better and more prepared life and making it easier to afford those are the top priorities. I think the next step is addressing the programs that will help stimulate the economy by improving the financial viability of the lower and middle classes who will put that money back into the system.
But your point stands. There is a great deal to address and limited options for doing so. |
Halle-f'ing-lujah, we are totally on the same page.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts? |
Health care
Some broad but targeted (by income) breaks for struggling people (would include day care, housing, education, loan reduction/forgiveness), to be expanded later.
Infrastructure/green economy (begin the work on potential UBI)
Those would be my first targets, along with obviously the ethics and criminal stuff.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts? |
I would start with those and in that order. They are paramount to the health of the nation's future (no pun intended). A safer, better and more prepared life and making it easier to afford those are the top priorities. I think the next step is addressing the programs that will help stimulate the economy by improving the financial viability of the lower and middle classes who will put that money back into the system.
But your point stands. There is a great deal to address and limited options for doing so. |
Halle-f'ing-lujah, we are totally on the same page. |
Perhaps I should rephrase that . . . 
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Another to prove Trump has no concern about the health of the planet. Trumps stupidity not only damages America his ignorance threatens to damage the entire planet.
Agriculture Department buries studies showing dangers of climate change
LINK
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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governator
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Heartburn
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I like to remind people that the entirety of student debt is well below what we've paid to bail out the banks, Wall street, the auto industry, and any other number of business interests (which I mostly supported BTW), and it could be a nice thing to reverse the tax breaks of similar size annually to the affluent and deposit that money where it could do some real good. |
How would you prioritize the many big spending projects that liberals want, such as: health care reform, infrastructure rebuilding, transitioning to a green(er) economy, paying down the national debt, paid two year college programs, middle class tax cuts, free daycare, rent rebates for >30% income spending on rent, free four-year college, a $1000 per month stipend, increased earned income credits, expanded housing vouchers, a guaranteed livable wage, paying off college debts? |
I would start with those and in that order. They are paramount to the health of the nation's future (no pun intended). A safer, better and more prepared life and making it easier to afford those are the top priorities. I think the next step is addressing the programs that will help stimulate the economy by improving the financial viability of the lower and middle classes who will put that money back into the system.
But your point stands. There is a great deal to address and limited options for doing so. |
Those are all things that make america greater than we are now. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good idea. But it's telling that he couldnt ask McConnell to support a bill. Republicans are crooks.
Executive orders have a shelf life of the President currently in office. Legislating from the White House is far from ideal.
If our last Qualified, constitutional attorney, President of Harvard Law review President didn't know that. Millions of people would have had their healthcare taken away in 2016.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Quote: | She's a liar. And her. And her. And them. And my ex. And her. And her. And her. And them. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And me. I lied about assaulting women. Actually I never said that thing you heard on tape, and I never met that woman you have photographs of me meeting.
Believe me, would I lie to you?
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That's not even an exaggeration for effect. I think the only thing what would make it more accurate is if the words "and I would never have assaulted her . . . I mean have you seen her? Have you seen her? I'm telling you people . . . not pretty . . . not pretty . . . would never have done that . . ." were added |
And true to form, Trump says in regards to Carroll's accusations that it never happened because: "She's not my type . . ."
So if she had been his "type", it would have been different Donald?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450116-trump-vehemently-denies-e-jean-carroll-allegation-shes-not-my-type
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Quote: | She's a liar. And her. And her. And them. And my ex. And her. And her. And her. And them. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And me. I lied about assaulting women. Actually I never said that thing you heard on tape, and I never met that woman you have photographs of me meeting.
Believe me, would I lie to you?
|
That's not even an exaggeration for effect. I think the only thing what would make it more accurate is if the words "and I would never have assaulted her . . . I mean have you seen her? Have you seen her? I'm telling you people . . . not pretty . . . not pretty . . . would never have done that . . ." were added |
And true to form, Trump says in regards to Carroll's accusations that it never happened: "She's not my type . . ."
So if she had been his "type", it would have been different Donald?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450116-trump-vehemently-denies-e-jean-carroll-allegation-shes-not-my-type |
I posted a link on this allegation that could be implying something about Donald's size. 
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Quote: | She's a liar. And her. And her. And them. And my ex. And her. And her. And her. And them. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And me. I lied about assaulting women. Actually I never said that thing you heard on tape, and I never met that woman you have photographs of me meeting.
Believe me, would I lie to you?
|
That's not even an exaggeration for effect. I think the only thing what would make it more accurate is if the words "and I would never have assaulted her . . . I mean have you seen her? Have you seen her? I'm telling you people . . . not pretty . . . not pretty . . . would never have done that . . ." were added |
And true to form, Trump says in regards to Carroll's accusations that it never happened: "She's not my type . . ."
So if she had been his "type", it would have been different Donald?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450116-trump-vehemently-denies-e-jean-carroll-allegation-shes-not-my-type |
I posted a link on this allegation that could be implying something about Donald's size. |
When an ex-wife (Ivana) swears under oath in a deposition that her ex husband (Trump) raped her. What can pass that bar? If she's lying she goes to jail. End of story.
I want to see Trump's deposition from that divorce. Wish the Dems could get their hands on it and make it public.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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To the people in this thread who believe we should nominate Biden and not impeach Trump I have a question. How do you feel about Democrats using back channels to coordinate with China to sway the 2020 election?
If we're going the "by any means approach". That seems like the next logical step. China hacks his taxes. Hacks voting machines if necessary. They tank the US economy in October and November leading up to the election. And that is a devastating blow to Trump's re-election chances.
We can go back to pursuing altruism after the agent orange is out of the White House.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Quote: | She's a liar. And her. And her. And them. And my ex. And her. And her. And her. And them. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And her. And me. I lied about assaulting women. Actually I never said that thing you heard on tape, and I never met that woman you have photographs of me meeting.
Believe me, would I lie to you?
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That's not even an exaggeration for effect. I think the only thing what would make it more accurate is if the words "and I would never have assaulted her . . . I mean have you seen her? Have you seen her? I'm telling you people . . . not pretty . . . not pretty . . . would never have done that . . ." were added |
And true to form, Trump says in regards to Carroll's accusations that it never happened: "She's not my type . . ."
So if she had been his "type", it would have been different Donald?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450116-trump-vehemently-denies-e-jean-carroll-allegation-shes-not-my-type |
I posted a link on this allegation that could be implying something about Donald's size. |
When an ex-wife (Ivana) swears under oath in a deposition that her ex husband (Trump) raped her. What can pass that bar? If she's lying she goes to jail. End of story.
I want to see Trump's deposition from that divorce. Wish the Dems could get their hands on it and make it public. |
Wouldn't make a difference. His maleficences is common knowledge.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | To the people in this thread who believe we should nominate Biden and not impeach Trump I have a question. How do you feel about Democrats using back channels to coordinate with China to sway the 2020 election?
If we're going the "by any means approach". That seems like the next logical step. China hacks his taxes. Hacks voting machines if necessary. They tank the US economy in October and November leading up to the election. And that is a devastating blow to Trump's re-election chances.
We can go back to pursuing altruism after the agent orange is out of the White House. |
Eh, I'd prefer to stick to the "They go low, we go high" approach. Not at all interested in seeing the Dems just reduce themselves to swimming in the swamp. There's no way to wash off that filth once you do. There's no value in giving ammo to the "both sides are the same" crowd.
Trump can be beaten without reducing ourselves to his despicable level.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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