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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Spicer says Flynn was a "volunteer" and Manafort had a "minimal role."


Does that make Trump a mid level staffer?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Fired U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara Said to Have Been Investigating HHS Secretary Tom Price

Quote:
Trump’s head of the Department of Health and Human Services traded stocks of health-related companies while working on legislation affecting the firms. A source says Bharara was overseeing an investigation. The White House didn’t immediately comment.


I don't think the White House bothered to vet any of the nominees.


Firing Preet was a huge mistake. He showed no favoritism in who he investigated, red or blue. He's the exact type of guy you want in that role.


I wish the media would focus more on corrupt (bleep) like this rather than whining about Russia and Trump's tweets.


"Whining about Russia" could very well lead to exposing the biggest political scandal in our nation's history. Which doesn't mean that other forms of corruption should be ignored, but let's not minimize the Russian story as "whining."


Or it could just end up being some ghost story that amounts to nothing but a red herring from the real tangible shady (bleep) that the Trump administration is doing. They're opening the (bleep) floodgates even further for corporate America to destroy this country. This is a corporate takeover and the DNC will do nothing because they're in their (bleep) pockets too, so it's "Russia!" and "Hilary is great and not really a loser" and "he's so sexist," all the time. Same (bleep) that lost them the election.


So you think all the Democrats on the intelligence committees are using this investigation as a distraction? That makes no sense.

Just because there's corporate influence in government doesn't mean that every single thing the government is doing is a form of distraction. That's tinfoil hat territory.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

As bad as being in league with corporate donors and oligarchs is, being in league with the intelligence apparatus and leadership of a foreign country is several levels of magnitude worse.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Does anyone think Carson and other panel members calling Donald, "Trump" rather than, "President Trump", is a sign of disrespect for Donald? I don't think it's aimed at the office.


Subtly, yeah. They did that to Obama and Bill Clinton in their days, too. A GOP Congressman yelled, "YOU LIE!" at President Obama in Congress once. That certainly was an anomaly that belied the cooperation the Republicans as a whole gave to the President and their Democrat colleagues. President Obama during a State Of The Union speech mentioned it was his last term and, again, we were treated to a rousing applause from the definitely-not-petulant-and-moronic Republicans who daily dedicate themselves to good bipartisan works for the benefit of Americans. The President replied, "Yeah, because I won the last two elections..." VERY, VERY unprofessional retort to the many patriots in the chamber, I think, my main mayne Joe...

(Hey, Joe is my fave Hendrix song. I think of you when I listen to it.)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Reuters: Tillerson plans to skip upcoming NATO meeting of foreign ministers. But plans to visit Russia in April.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
As bad as being in league with corporate donors and oligarchs is, being in league with the intelligence apparatus and leadership of a foreign country is several levels of magnitude worse.


Exactly. This notion that the Russian connection is possibly just some whiny diversion about nothing is laughable. It's blatantly obvious that there is a serious breach international protocol between the new administration and a belligerent foreign power of serious consequence. The implications of that are staggering and make even Trump's worst possible corporate cronyism pale in comparison. Don't even get me started on FOB's Bernie Berry Kool-Aid drinking idea that Trump and Hilary are equally as corrupt when it comes to corporate manipulation and obligation.

Claiming that the need to get to the bottom of Trump's connection and compromising position to the Russians is simply "whining" and that we should just be looking at other issues couldn't be more ironic. Trump and his cronies have all but admitted the nefarious nature of the Russian thing by the very way they have handled the controversy. To deny otherwise is like some parent looking at their toddler holding a sharpie while surveying the indelible ink scribbled all over the walls and furniture and thinking it must be the dog's fault simply because the kid points the poor mutt's direction.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?


Pretty sure that LG gets to vote for all the replacements at that point.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Reuters: Tillerson plans to skip upcoming NATO meeting of foreign ministers. But plans to visit Russia in April.


[berniebros]Stop "whining" about the possible collusion between the Trump administration and the Russians. Nothing to see there . . . We all know Hilary is the real problem facing the nation.[/berniebros]
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?


Paul Ryan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject:

A few random questions which I haven't been able to get answered elsewhere:

1) How do these rank on the hierarchy from highest to lowest in rank/power: Secretary of Homeland Security, National Security Advisor, Director of National Intelligence, CIA Director? Curious why Flynn was offered National Security Advisor in the first place when that's typically a job for policy experts. Seems like he would have been a better fit for DNI or CIA.

2) Why is former four-star general John Kelly willing to disgrace himself by serving as Trump's Homeland Security secretary and being responsible for the wall and the travel ban?

3) How did Flynn even make it as far as he did in the military? I have a friend who worked with him at McChrystal Group for a brief period of time and she said he had no self-awareness or self-control. The guy seems like a nut yet he made it all the way to Lieutenant General...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Fired U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara Said to Have Been Investigating HHS Secretary Tom Price

Quote:
Trump’s head of the Department of Health and Human Services traded stocks of health-related companies while working on legislation affecting the firms. A source says Bharara was overseeing an investigation. The White House didn’t immediately comment.


I don't think the White House bothered to vet any of the nominees.


Firing Preet was a huge mistake. He showed no favoritism in who he investigated, red or blue. He's the exact type of guy you want in that role.


I wish the media would focus more on corrupt (bleep) like this rather than whining about Russia and Trump's tweets.


"Whining about Russia" could very well lead to exposing the biggest political scandal in our nation's history. Which doesn't mean that other forms of corruption should be ignored, but let's not minimize the Russian story as "whining."


Or it could just end up being some ghost story that amounts to nothing but a red herring from the real tangible shady (bleep) that the Trump administration is doing. They're opening the (bleep) floodgates even further for corporate America to destroy this country. This is a corporate takeover and the DNC will do nothing because they're in their (bleep) pockets too, so it's "Russia!" and "Hilary is great and not really a loser" and "he's so sexist," all the time. Same (bleep) that lost them the election.


So you think all the Democrats on the intelligence committees are using this investigation as a distraction? That makes no sense.

Just because there's corporate influence in government doesn't mean that every single thing the government is doing is a form of distraction. That's tinfoil hat territory.


No, I'm saying they are choosing that path to attack Trump and not other more factual paths because it doesn't open them up to similar scrutiny.

Every single thing is a distraction? Where are you getting these words, because they're not mine.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject:

I don't believe I ever said that Trump and Clinton were equally corrupt, nor did I say no attention should be given to the Russia situation.

Why is being a fan of Bernie Sanders and agreeing with a lot of what he has to say insulting? From where I'm sitting, he's as close to a model progressive government rep that exists in government. If I'm drinking Bernie kool aid, then you're drinking DNC koolaid.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?


Paul Ryan


Cool. Most of the establishment right hate him also. So, who's after him? I mean, they have 4 whole years and we've only discussed 2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject:

I'm not sure which is a worse option right now... Trump as President or Pence/Ryan as President. I think everything Trump does undermines the GOP's ability to push through their agenda. However, you put a professional and articulate (albeit corrupt) Pence or Ryan in as President, do they quietly push through everything they want?

At the end of the day Trump represents a national security threat, but he also comes with the bonus of delegitimizing the GOP agenda on a daily basis. It's not like if Trump goes away, suddenly we have a Democratic President or Congress. This could be a case of be careful what you wish for. In charge of both the executive and the legislative, a unified Republican party may be much more dangerous to the future of our country than a Trump administration alone.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I'm not sure which is a worse option right now... Trump as President or Pence/Ryan as President. I think everything Trump does undermines the GOP's ability to push through their agenda. However, you put a professional and articulate (albeit corrupt) Pence or Ryan in as President, do they quietly push through everything they want?

At the end of the day Trump represents a national security threat, but he also comes with the bonus of delegitimizing the GOP agenda on a daily basis. It's not like if Trump goes away, suddenly we have a Democratic President or Congress. This could be a case of be careful what you wish for. In charge of both the executive and the legislative, a unified Republican party may be much more dangerous to the future of our country than a Trump administration alone.


A while back, I put it in basketball terms that Trump has the higher ceiling of evil/mayhem, but pence has the higher floor.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
A few random questions which I haven't been able to get answered elsewhere:

1) How do these rank on the hierarchy from highest to lowest in rank/power: Secretary of Homeland Security, National Security Advisor, Director of National Intelligence, CIA Director? Curious why Flynn was offered National Security Advisor in the first place when that's typically a job for policy experts. Seems like he would have been a better fit for DNI or CIA.

2) Why is former four-star general John Kelly willing to disgrace himself by serving as Trump's Homeland Security secretary and being responsible for the wall and the travel ban?

3) How did Flynn even make it as far as he did in the military? I have a friend who worked with him at McChrystal Group for a brief period of time and she said he had no self-awareness or self-control. The guy seems like a nut yet he made it all the way to Lieutenant General...


1. Do you mean in line to the presidency or power day to day (the latter varies by President, although there are some historical precedents).

2. Hard to say. Maybe he felt compelled to fill the job, maybe he agrees, maybe he just wanted power above all.

3. Because he's a brilliant strategist, tactician, and analyst.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject:

at the GOP trying to make the hearings about the leaks.
Best metaphor I heard to sum things up:
House is on fire. Trump's running around with matches. And GOP wants to know who called the fire department.

Love how Spicer called Comey Obama's FBI head. Was he Obama's when he spoke about the Clinton investigation days before the election?

Trump started his political career with the Central Park 5. A case where to this day, he believes 5 black men should be jailed for a crime that they didn't commit (proven by DNA evidence). Years and years later, it was Barack's birth certificate. Now his most recent tweets accused Barack of Nixonian crimes.
Trump's made a career at accusing African American men of crimes they haven't committed, and never apologizing for it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Wilt wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?


Paul Ryan


Cool. Most of the establishment right hate him also. So, who's after him? I mean, they have 4 whole years and we've only discussed 2


I think they'd be satisfied with Pence, if he doesn't get sucked into the mess.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I'm not sure which is a worse option right now... Trump as President or Pence/Ryan as President. I think everything Trump does undermines the GOP's ability to push through their agenda. However, you put a professional and articulate (albeit corrupt) Pence or Ryan in as President, do they quietly push through everything they want?

At the end of the day Trump represents a national security threat, but he also comes with the bonus of delegitimizing the GOP agenda on a daily basis. It's not like if Trump goes away, suddenly we have a Democratic President or Congress. This could be a case of be careful what you wish for. In charge of both the executive and the legislative, a unified Republican party may be much more dangerous to the future of our country than a Trump administration alone.


From a long term perspective, that may be true. I'm more concerned with the short run implications of having Trump as president. In the long run, pretty much anything that the Republicans do can be reversed through the normal democratic process, assuming that it needs to be reversed at all. Trump, on the other hand, has the potential to do irreparable damage to our global standing and national security.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Wilt wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Who's president if the Republican president and his entire cabinet has to resign?


Paul Ryan


Cool. Most of the establishment right hate him also. So, who's after him? I mean, they have 4 whole years and we've only discussed 2


I think they'd be satisfied with Pence, if he doesn't get sucked into the mess.


Take back house in 2018. Impreach Trump and Pence. That's the dream. President Pelosi.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
A few random questions which I haven't been able to get answered elsewhere:

1) How do these rank on the hierarchy from highest to lowest in rank/power: Secretary of Homeland Security, National Security Advisor, Director of National Intelligence, CIA Director? Curious why Flynn was offered National Security Advisor in the first place when that's typically a job for policy experts. Seems like he would have been a better fit for DNI or CIA.

2) Why is former four-star general John Kelly willing to disgrace himself by serving as Trump's Homeland Security secretary and being responsible for the wall and the travel ban?

3) How did Flynn even make it as far as he did in the military? I have a friend who worked with him at McChrystal Group for a brief period of time and she said he had no self-awareness or self-control. The guy seems like a nut yet he made it all the way to Lieutenant General...


1. Do you mean in line to the presidency or power day to day (the latter varies by President, although there are some historical precedents).

2. Hard to say. Maybe he felt compelled to fill the job, maybe he agrees, maybe he just wanted power above all.

3. Because he's a brilliant strategist, tactician, and analyst.


1) Day to day power.

3) So has he just been a bad match for his recent jobs then? How did he screw up so badly as both Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and then as National Security Advisor?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/vice-president-pence-set-receive-working-women-award-article-1.3003643
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:


No, I'm saying they are choosing that path to attack Trump and not other more factual paths because it doesn't open them up to similar scrutiny.


Or maybe they're just doing their job? Maybe they're just doing what their constituents want them to do? You really think Adam Schiff and others are doing this because they don't want to be exposed for their corporate leanings and thus have attached themselves to this investigation for political points? Are you really that cynical?

Quote:
Every single thing is a distraction? Where are you getting these words, because they're not mine.


Well, when you accuse some of the more progressive members in government for attacking Trump through this Russia investigation because it's convenient to them, you are basically saying that everything is a distraction from this corporate takeover in DC. Seems to me you're saying you're either with Bernie, or you're some corrupt corporate pawn. And yes, that's when you entire tinfoil hat territory.


Quote:
I don't believe I ever said that Trump and Clinton were equally corrupt, nor did I say no attention should be given to the Russia situation.

Why is being a fan of Bernie Sanders and agreeing with a lot of what he has to say insulting? From where I'm sitting, he's as close to a model progressive government rep that exists in government. If I'm drinking Bernie kool aid, then you're drinking DNC koolaid.


Nothing wrong with liking or voting for Bernie. I don't want to brag, but I've known about Bernie and followed him longer than 99% of the Bernie Bros out there. But it doesn't mean that I have to use the words "corporate" and "DNC" a million times to dismiss everything that is being done in Washington, particularly attempts by progressives to get to the bottom of this Russia situation
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kellyanne-conway-tries-to-distance-donald-trump-from-surrogates-tied-to-russia_us_58d11650e4b0be71dcf7cbbf?

Kellyanne Conway Tries To Distance Donald Trump From Surrogates Tied To Russia

John Dean was on TV the other night, saying how Nixon used the same tactic during Watergate. He claimed he talked to Dean a couple times, trying to distance himself from him. It turns out they talked about Watergate 37 times.
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