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Serious NBA Fan
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Joined: 07 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: We are not doing the 07 plan right - what gives? (this not another 07 debate thread) |
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This is not a debate on whether we should have an 07 plan.
We want to have max flexibility for the summer of 07. So, that would mean we want to have the maximum expiring Ks for next year. yet, we have $8 mil expiring this summer (George and Med). Also, we won't be able to draft anybody this summer with the Miami pick or God forbid, our own lottery pick. That would mean 2 to 3 mil more locked up against the 07 cap (1st rounders receive slotted Ks for 3 plus 1 years). Also, in 06, we would only be add new players with a 1 year Ks and our exceptions. Fat chance there.
So, if we are committed to the 07 plan and every indication is that we are, then why aren't we trading George and Med plus Miami's pick for more Ks expiring in 07? I sure hope we aren't writing off 06. |
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| We are writing off 06 - sorry. |
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bounty
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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For all we know, Buss said I will spend $$$$ on PJ but he better earn that by making our roster play better. PJ may be it. OR Kup to keep his job may have made an empty promise about some so called 2007. He bought himself some time. I cant believe both of them didnt learn from last year. That lesson was losing sucks.
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Vlade
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Joined: 08 May 2005
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Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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How do you know we aren't trading George and Slava? I would hope Mitch & co. are exploring every possibility!
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Roachman
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Location: Woodland Hills, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The idea is that we will be losing 30 million dollars in Brian Grant's contract in 2007. With that much off the books, it will be much easier to spend the max divided on 1 or 2, or given how things are looking now, 3 players, especially with some tricks here and there. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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consider this year and next year an opportunity to watch andrew bynum develop and see the return of ronny turiaf.
we're not making waves till 07 or 08.
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Roachman wrote: | | The idea is that we will be losing 30 million dollars in Brian Grant's contract in 2007. With that much off the books, it will be much easier to spend the max divided on 1 or 2, or given how things are looking now, 3 players, especially with some tricks here and there. |
Correction: we will be losing $15 million off the books via Grant's contract.
Does anybody realize how much money is being wasted on our roster? This roster is "worth" more than $60 million and Kobe only makes $16 of that. Talk about pathetic. |
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thumpinghead
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Vlade wrote: | | How do you know we aren't trading George and Slava? I would hope Mitch & co. are exploring every possibility! |
We have been. If you were an NBA team, would you want George and Slava?  |
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Roachman
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Joined: 22 Jul 2003
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Location: Woodland Hills, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | Roachman wrote: | | The idea is that we will be losing 30 million dollars in Brian Grant's contract in 2007. With that much off the books, it will be much easier to spend the max divided on 1 or 2, or given how things are looking now, 3 players, especially with some tricks here and there. |
Correction: we will be losing $15 million off the books via Grant's contract.
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Stand corrected. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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So let me get this straight, Grant's contract expires after next season (06-07)? 
What are they going to do in the mean time? |
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sage_10 wrote: | So let me get this straight, Grant's contract expires after next season (06-07)?
What are they going to do in the mean time? |
Nothing - at least w/o jeopardizing the 07 plan. No player worth his salt is going to sign a one year deal (remember how much difficulty we had last summer trying to convince FAs to sign 2 yr deals?). The only improvement to the roster will have to come from within - having players improve their individual performances.
Of course, they could sign assistant coaches, hire better looking cheerleaders, change announcers, etc.
What you see is what you got (less Devean and Slava) - get used to it. |
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bounty
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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can we trade grants 15mil for a player?
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas 
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Ank
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
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Zhengi
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ank wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
Get a hold of yourself. Look at Shaq now. You can't seriously say he's the MDE anymore.
And we're in a fine place. It's just that some fans refuse to open their eyes and only concentrate on self gratification.
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Zhengi wrote: | | Ank wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
Get a hold of yourself. Look at Shaq now. You can't seriously say he's the MDE anymore.
And we're in a fine place. It's just that some fans refuse to open their eyes and only concentrate on self gratification. |
Zhengi - you can't be serious. Compared to Grant, Shaq looks like a bargain. Add to that Odom ($11.5) and Kwame ($7.5) and you have a serious lack of bang for the buck.
We didn't get expiring Ks, we didn't get impact players, we didn't acquire athleticism we could keep, we didn't get young cheap talent that could play (Haslem), we didn't get players with trade value and we didn't get better. And it isn't just the money - the real killer is having to wait until 07 to have any chance to add to the roster.
And I know it was likely a matter of Kobe or Shaq - I'm not even saying that they chose the wrong guy. But at what cost? And if the timing was driven by Kobe, then he deserves this talentless mess. But as a die-hard fan and season ticket holder, I deserve better. We all do.
Saying they've made mistakes doesn't make me any less of a fan - it just breaks my heart to see it come to this. I knew exactly what they were in for the day they made the trade - I'm just surprised it wasn't obvious to so many others. Barring a miracle, they're done (adding PJ was only a quarter miracle) - the entire 07 plan was about one guy . . . Amare. And he ain't coming. |
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Vlade
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Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ank wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
Ank,
I get a little peace of mind when I think of the trade in this way:
Shaq for...
Odom, Butler, Grant, AND Kobe
We all know that Kobe wasn't re-signing with the Lakers with Shaq on the roster. The Lakers were under the gun and needed to pull off a deal in a hurry.
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Zhengi
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | Ank wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
Get a hold of yourself. Look at Shaq now. You can't seriously say he's the MDE anymore.
And we're in a fine place. It's just that some fans refuse to open their eyes and only concentrate on self gratification. |
Zhengi - you can't be serious. Compared to Grant, Shaq looks like a bargain. Add to that Odom ($11.5) and Kwame ($7.5) and you have a serious lack of bang for the buck.
We didn't get expiring Ks, we didn't get impact players, we didn't acquire athleticism we could keep, we didn't get young cheap talent that could play (Haslem), we didn't get players with trade value and we didn't get better. And it isn't just the money - the real killer is having to wait until 07 to have any chance to add to the roster.
And I know it was likely a matter of Kobe or Shaq - I'm not even saying that they chose the wrong guy. But at what cost? And if the timing was driven by Kobe, then he deserves this talentless mess. But as a die-hard fan and season ticket holder, I deserve better. We all do.
Saying they've made mistakes doesn't make me any less of a fan - it just breaks my heart to see it come to this. I knew exactly what they were in for the day they made the trade - I'm just surprised it wasn't obvious to so many others. Barring a miracle, they're done (adding PJ was only a quarter miracle) - the entire 07 plan was about one guy . . . Amare. And he ain't coming. |
Shaq has a 5 year contract worth $100 million. That guy is in the first year of his contract and he's already performing well below what he's worth. If he's the MDE, he's showing a pretty pathetic effort in doing so. As for Grant, he's definitely useless, but at least he comes off the books earlier than Shaq.
As for what Laker fans deserve, this franchise has given us what we needed all these years. Winningest franchise and 14 titles. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to give back tot he franchise with some patience. If the season tickets are bothering you, you can give them up cause there is a whole waiting list of people who want them.
As for the pieces we got for Shaq, it can't be helped. He wanted to go only to a few select places and that limited our options. Plus, we were on a time constraint. If the Artest debacle taught us anything is that you can't get equal value for a disgruntled star, and the more time you take to trade him, the worst the deals become.
And about you being less of a fan, no one is hinting at that. It's just annoying that people don't have more patience because we're in a rebuilding mode right now and that's not bad considering we're in contention for a playoff seeding. Most other rebuilding teams wouldn't even contend for a seed and would head straight to the lottery. Of course, our main goal should be the championship, but very few teams that have been revamped and in the rebuilding process make it to the Finals during the first few years. It has to be baby steps with reaching the playoffs and improving from there.
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raffi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As for Grant, he's definitely useless, but at least he comes off the books earlier than Shaq. |
Shaq would have come off the books this year at $30 million - now that is some serious cap room.
| Quote: | | As for the pieces we got for Shaq, it can't be helped. He wanted to go only to a few select places and that limited our options. Plus, we were on a time constraint. |
Couldn't disagree more - the time constraint was self-imposed. Shaq had zero leverage. The timing issue had more to do with Kobe - which is truly unfortunate, because he's now left with a talentless roster. They should have promised Kobe that they would move Shaq, but only at the right time and on the right terms. This would've been in the best interests of the team and Kobe. They acted in haste and got a bunch of waste.
Despite the past successes (for which I am eternally grateful), it doesn't excuse such a horrifically stupid and one sided transaction. And having Kobe and nothing else on the horizon doesn't make me feel any better - we're a lot further than one player away. Because if this is about winning championships, it's the wrong way to go about it. We've made it more difficult on ourselves and I think shrewd management could have helped.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong, but I've aced this test so far. |
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Zhengi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | Quote: | | As for Grant, he's definitely useless, but at least he comes off the books earlier than Shaq. |
Shaq would have come off the books this year at $30 million - now that is some serious cap room. |
Except we would be a terrible team and a lot more people would be complaining about how the Clippers would be going to the WCF and possibly the Finals with Kobe, Maggette, Livingston, and Elton Brand. Then all you whiners would be crying about how Shaq should have been traded and Kobe should have been kept. Can't win either way.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | As for the pieces we got for Shaq, it can't be helped. He wanted to go only to a few select places and that limited our options. Plus, we were on a time constraint. |
Couldn't disagree more - the time constraint was self-imposed. Shaq had zero leverage. The timing issue had more to do with Kobe - which is truly unfortunate, because he's now left with a talentless roster. They should have promised Kobe that they would move Shaq, but only at the right time and on the right terms. This would've been in the best interests of the team and Kobe. They acted in haste and got a bunch of waste.
Despite the past successes (for which I am eternally grateful), it doesn't excuse such a horrifically stupid and one sided transaction. And having Kobe and nothing else on the horizon doesn't make me feel any better - we're a lot further than one player away. Because if this is about winning championships, it's the wrong way to go about it. We've made it more difficult on ourselves and I think shrewd management could have helped.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong, but I've aced this test so far. |
Whether it was a timing issue due to Shaq or Kobe, it was still a time issue. Lakers had to move Shaq within that time period, so therefore, it was a time constraint.
Seriously, look at Shaq. Do you think he'll continue to hold up for 4 additional years? He's on the decline. You keep harping on the trade being one sided when evidence is starting to surface that perhaps it wasn't that bad of a trade seeing as Shaq's numbers and production has fallen remarkably.
As for winning championships, give this team and Jerry Buss a chance to build a contender. It's a little too early to dismiss the 2007 cap space plans without even seeing a smidgeon of results.
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msb212
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Ank wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
We if they didnt we do now. thanks. Merry effen christmas |
Yes, it was really a terrible trade. Grant was hurt and worthless and a salary hellhole. Butler and Odom were decent, but niether was an all-star. For SHAQ, the MDE. Terrible, terrible trade. Franchise killing trade. We'll be paying for that for years. Then, since then, we've made a series of talent lowering trades. We're in a horrible place now with no talent and no future. Simply Add Bosh to this team. We still wouldn't contend against the Spurs or Pistons. We still need a better PG, a better bench, more defense. Add to that the fecat that we'll have to gut the team to have the space in 2007. I think the 07 plan is our best option now, but we made it the best option by making bad trades and not making good ones. |
blame shaq, not mitch. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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When 2007-2008 rolls around, a lot of people will be signing a different tune.
Just like with Kobe hate was that was here last season - with many questioning whether it was the right move to keep Bryant and trade Shaq in decline - We'll see what happens in the end. |
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The Dagger
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | can we trade grants 15mil for a player? |
Nope - we cut him last summer so that Buss could save some dough by not having to pay the luxary tax. That $15 million is dead money for another year. People really don't understand how horrible a deal we made. |
People called me crazy and wanted my head, but I proposed trading Stay Puff to Utah for a number two draft pick. We would've received instand cap-room and would've saved 3 years of Kobe's prime. Utah would've accepted it because their fans would've revolted if not. Plus they had like 40 million in cap-room that year and would've still kept AK-47. The best part is Snaq would've been forever humiliated for being traded for only a draft pick. Oh, well, if only I was the GM. 
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40ptmachine
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
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The thing that pisses me off is that all this things are happening in Kobe's prime
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