How do you think you'd react if your kid told you they were trans?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

It's a touchy subject and parents who are concerned are often going to be born 40 years ago (or more) so you're going to get all kind of first reactions from them and all are legitimate. To act like everyone is going to take it well and everyone is well informed on the subject isn't realistic.

Although I think after a while the smart and loving parents will realise their child is healthy and just wants to be happy and free to be who he is.


No, you respect people having the right to have and express opinions, just as you respect the right of others to strongly savage them if they are ignorant, incorrect, and prejudiced.


Not to mention, we can't confuse an "opinion" with ignorance. You can't have an opinion on something without being informed. If you speak blindly, then that's a problem. I get that people come from different backgrounds, beliefs etc., but the point to having an opinion is that you are well informed. That's like saying all people who thought slavery was okay during the early stages of America have a valid opinion because that was just how it was and that was the culture and way of living at the time. I never understood why someone else's pursuit of happiness and search for one's true self bother so many people to the point where they go out of their way to ruin someone's life. I understand how some parents might feel "ashamed" if their son or daughter came out, but the last thing anyone needs is to feel neglected and alone because their family doesn't accept them. Those "parents" would be terrible ones if they did this.

Fan0Bynum17: Congrats to you and I'm glad you're doing well. You did the right thing and I'm sorry for the terrible moments you may have had leading up to this point. Just know it will get better as time decides to heal the old wounds. Even in 2018 we still have to look out for the finger pointing. BTW I live near the Bay and I'm sure you realized how crazy expensive it is to see the Lakers up here
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject:

In all honesty, I would be disappointed at first but ultimately accepting.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:33 am    Post subject:

EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


Well said. I knew there was a reason that the Lakers used to always throw it to you in the post for their first play of every game!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


Well said. I knew there was a reason that the Lakers used to always throw it to you in the post for their first play of every game!

Side Note: Your mention of Elden caused me to wonder how he's doing LINK
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

It's a touchy subject and parents who are concerned are often going to be born 40 years ago (or more) so you're going to get all kind of first reactions from them and all are legitimate. To act like everyone is going to take it well and everyone is well informed on the subject isn't realistic.

Although I think after a while the smart and loving parents will realise their child is healthy and just wants to be happy and free to be who he is.


No, you respect people having the right to have and express opinions, just as you respect the right of others to strongly savage them if they are ignorant, incorrect, and prejudiced.
Ignorance is bliss LINK CLICK TOP OF IMAGE
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


I think this is a fair position, but I will say, we conflate statements that aren’t “pro” LGBT as being definitively anti-LGBT. (And anything that is pro something is automatically anti something in general). That to me is where we see issues among people with different viewpoints.

For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

In a vacuum, I don’t think so, but I’d suspect many would act immediately to unequivocally call said person out.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

Yes. It's as bigoted as a parent saying they're disappointed their child is gay, or left-handed, or has red hair or blue eyes. Uncommon innate characteristics aren't intrinsically worthy of criticism or merit.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject:

I'am just going by the fact that the thread is called "How do you think you'd react if your kid told you they were trans?"

If people who answer honestly are being called ignorant what's the point ? You're not going to get answers that reflects the reality.

And I don't think this guy is necessarily anti-LGBT but whatever.

I also think it's different than being gay. Most parent don't raise their child as a heterosexual they do however raise them as a boy or a girl. So I understand that for some parent it can be a big deal.

But I feel like I'am soon going to be called ignorant aswell so I'll leave the thread and wish OP the best of luck in her new life.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject:

Vin wrote:
I'am just going by the fact that the thread is called "How do you think you'd react if your kid told you they were trans?"

If people who answer honestly are being called ignorant what's the point ?
You're not going to get answers that reflects the reality.

And I don't think this guy is necessarily anti-LGBT but whatever.

I also think it's different than being gay. Most parent don't raise their child as a heterosexual they do however raise them as a boy or a girl. So I understand that for some parent it can be a big deal.

But I feel like I'am soon going to be called ignorant aswell so I'll leave the thread and wish OP the best of luck in her new life.



I'm not calling SLC ignorant in a derogatory fashion.

Concerns relating to parenting being a cause for transgenders could be deemed as ignorant if you use the Merriam-Webster definition.


Definition of ignorant


1 a : destitute of knowledge or education an ignorant society; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified parents ignorant of modern mathematics
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence ignorant errors

2 : unaware, uninformed
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


I think this is a fair position, but I will say, we conflate statements that aren’t “pro” LGBT as being definitively anti-LGBT. (And anything that is pro something is automatically anti something in general). That to me is where we see issues among people with different viewpoints.

For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

In a vacuum, I don’t think so, but I’d suspect many would act immediately to unequivocally call said person out.


Why would you be disappointed?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


I think this is a fair position, but I will say, we conflate statements that aren’t “pro” LGBT as being definitively anti-LGBT. (And anything that is pro something is automatically anti something in general). That to me is where we see issues among people with different viewpoints.

For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

In a vacuum, I don’t think so, but I’d suspect many would act immediately to unequivocally call said person out.


Why would you be disappointed?


Well, I’m not saying I would be, although it’s possible that I might. But if I put myself in the shoes of someone who said that, I think it could be perfectly reasonable and not definitively bigoted to feel so. I’d imagine they could be disappointed because there’d be the feeling that their child would likely have to deal with significantly more adversity in life, for instance.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I’d imagine they could be disappointed because there’d be the feeling that their child would likely have to deal with significantly more adversity in life, for instance.


I can understand why parents would feel a degree of apprehension on behalf of their child realizing that the road their child faces is going to be made harder by society's intolerance. But that's very different than being disappointed in who their child is. And if one is truly concerned about the adversity, adding to that adversity by bringing parental disappointment into it is counter-productive.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


I think this is a fair position, but I will say, we conflate statements that aren’t “pro” LGBT as being definitively anti-LGBT. (And anything that is pro something is automatically anti something in general). That to me is where we see issues among people with different viewpoints.

For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

In a vacuum, I don’t think so, but I’d suspect many would act immediately to unequivocally call said person out.


Why would you be disappointed?


Well, I’m not saying I would be, although it’s possible that I might. But if I put myself in the shoes of someone who said that, I think it could be perfectly reasonable and not definitively bigoted to feel so. I’d imagine they could be disappointed because there’d be the feeling that their child would likely have to deal with significantly more adversity in life, for instance.


So do black kids. Would it be ok to be disappointed if your kid had a baby with a black man? Btw, disappointed shows a negative judgement, not a concern for suffering.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
EldenCampbell wrote:
Vin wrote:
I don't mean necessarily you but I think his opinon and thought on the matter should be respected as much as the more positive ones and I don't feel it's been the case.

Nope, not going to respect any anti-LGBT views from anyone, ever. Those views are either misinformed or bigoted, and deserved to be called out unequivocally.


I think this is a fair position, but I will say, we conflate statements that aren’t “pro” LGBT as being definitively anti-LGBT. (And anything that is pro something is automatically anti something in general). That to me is where we see issues among people with different viewpoints.

For instance, if a poster said “I’d be disappointed if I found out my child was trans” would that be considered bigoted?

In a vacuum, I don’t think so, but I’d suspect many would act immediately to unequivocally call said person out.


Why would you be disappointed?


Well, I’m not saying I would be, although it’s possible that I might. But if I put myself in the shoes of someone who said that, I think it could be perfectly reasonable and not definitively bigoted to feel so. I’d imagine they could be disappointed because there’d be the feeling that their child would likely have to deal with significantly more adversity in life, for instance.


So do black kids. Would it be ok to be disappointed if your kid had a baby with a black man? Btw, disappointed shows a negative judgement, not a concern for suffering.


Well, I don’t personally agree with that sentiment, but I get your point.

If my kid had a baby with a black man, I’d be thrilled though the prospect of being a grandfather is disappointing, haha. If these two things are the same, does this mean I have to be thrilled about my kid being trans to avoid the bigot label?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject:

No, but maybe not disappointed (which means failed to meet expectations) either. Concerned, confused, worried, overwhelmed? Those are all things I can respect. Disappointed? No.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
No, but maybe not disappointed (which means failed to meet expectations) either. Concerned, confused, worried, overwhelmed? Those are all things I can respect. Disappointed? No.


Perfectly stated.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
No, but maybe not disappointed (which means failed to meet expectations) either. Concerned, confused, worried, overwhelmed? Those are all things I can respect. Disappointed? No.


That’s fair. So if a parent feels disappointment, do you think that makes them a bigot?

I don’t necessarily think that it does. Of course, a bigot could and probably would also feel disappontment, just stating that I don’t believe the feeling alone warrants the label.

Also, I think there are likely a lot of people who might say, this is how I’d feel, but then put in the actual situation, act entirely differently (both ways). Actions for me are paramount more so than words or feelings.

If I hear someone say they’d feel disappointed, about any of these things, while I agree it is negative, I view that as someone who can be “saved” so to speak. While a bigot on the other hand, is umoveable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject:

I don’t think it makes them a conscious bigot, but yes, disappointment stems from finding being trans to be less than optimal, less than desirable, less than acceptable really.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I don’t think it makes them a conscious bigot, but yes, disappointment stems from finding being trans to be less than optimal, less than desirable, less than acceptable really.


Ok, I can align with that thought. I guess I take the perspective that if a person felt being trans was less than optimal or even desirable, that doesn't necessitate a bigoted position.

Maybe a better analogy from my perspective would be a child born with an anomaly such as being born blind, or deaf.

I think it wouldn't be unnatural, upon the initial discovery, to feel disappointment, to feel, that that is less than optimal or desirable, but still love and support their child just the same.

A key difference with the analogy you provided earlier, that I believe is worth considering, is the element of surprise. Any time you are dealing with the element of surprise, I think it is fair to give that person a little extra leeway as it relates to their initial reaction.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject:

I do not think disappointed = bigoted at all. "Bigot" implies intense feelings of hate and intolerance that one may act upon.

Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

I am from a VERY culturally conservative country but am certainly not a conservative person. I have 2 children, a boy first then a girl, and honestly I would not know how I would react if one told this to me. However, if I had feelings of disappointment I would know why (culture, personal beliefs, upbringing, values), but that certainly would not make me a bigot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

I'd be considerably disappointed because I expect and prefer to have a child who develops into a heterosexual adult.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
I'd be considerably disappointed because I expect and prefer to have a child who develops into a heterosexual adult.


Two things:

First, gender and sexuality are not the same thing, so assuming a trans person is homosexual is incredibly ignorant.

Second, setting aside the first thing, expecting your child to be straight and being disappointed if they aren’t is indeed bigoted.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
I'd be considerably disappointed because I expect and prefer to have a child who develops into a heterosexual adult.


Two things:

First, gender and sexuality are not the same thing, so assuming a trans person is homosexual is incredibly ignorant.



Sorry, I left out cisgendered from my preference.

Quote:
Second, setting aside the first thing, expecting your child to be straight and being disappointed if they aren’t is indeed bigoted.


That's fair.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

Are there any here that would be disappointed if their kids turned out to be cis-hetero?

Last edited by Fan0Bynum17 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

what is cis?
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