It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
Just so you know, the vast majority of trans people started exhibiting knowledge of it around the age of 4...
Not sure you understand what tolerance is either. "OK, you get to vote, but I'm still calling you the n word..."
dumb comparison. Nobody should be called the n word so, I don't know where the hell you came up with that
. It's not and shouldn't be an insult just because I refer to you by your birth gender. There's a fine line between tolerance and conformity.
It's an apt comparison, because a lot of people used to have the same idea about the n word, because it was the common term of the day, and of course the inferiors shouldn't be insulted.
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I was born in the wrong decade. I'm really 10 so, I should be void of all responsibilities. _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67631 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I know I once said I was sure I could tell if someone was transgendered
I never knew about Chastity Bono.. wow.. looks a lot happier as a man...
And.. I wouldn't be able to tell
If my kid said he was transgendered.. so what.. it's their LIFE.. I just get to Love them.. not control or own or possess them
I would Love my kid just the same.. why would it be any different.. am I cultural robot.. (bleep) everyone that has a problem with my child.. they are the problem not the child..
What would you do if your child grew up religious?
I remember the Sonny & Cher show. They'd bring Chastity out at the end of every show. She was the cutest thing. LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I have a client who has transitioned into being a male. At work, his co-workers often refer to him by his female name and refer to him as "she" instead of "he." Ignoring that they do it intentionally to harass and hurt him, its a very hard thing for him to deal with. Accepting his own need to transition was hard enough and being reminded every day that others won't accept him or being punished for a decision that doesn't affect anyone else but him (because, fortunately, his parents accepted him) just needlessly piles on. How hard is it to just let people be who they want to be? How does it harm you or threaten your life? Just because someone chooses to live a life different than yours does not invalidate your choices or undermine the life you decide to live. There is enough for everyone on this planet. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I have a client who has transitioned into being a male. At work, his co-workers often refer to him by his female name and refer to him as "she" instead of "he." Ignoring that they do it intentionally to harass and hurt him, its a very hard thing for him to deal with. Accepting his own need to transition was hard enough and being reminded every day that others won't accept him or being punished for a decision that doesn't affect anyone else but him (because, fortunately, his parents accepted him) just needlessly piles on. How hard is it to just let people be who they want to be? How does it harm you or threaten your life? Just because someone chooses to live a life different than yours does not invalidate your choices or undermine the life you decide to live. There is enough for everyone on this planet.
Yeah it's a strange thing to me to dig your heels in about. It costs you nothing and it means a lot to others. _________________ 14-5-3-12
It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
It's a social courtesy. Why should you choose your pronouns based on someone's genitalia, or sex chromosomes, as opposed to their gender expression and psychological identity? One is far more relevant to social interaction than the other. What do their chromosomes/biological sex have to do with anything?
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:34 pm Post subject:
frijolero01 wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
Just so you know, the vast majority of trans people started exhibiting knowledge of it around the age of 4...
Not sure you understand what tolerance is either. "OK, you get to vote, but I'm still calling you the n word..."
dumb comparison. Nobody should be called the n word so, I don't know where the hell you came up with that
. It's not and shouldn't be an insult just because I refer to you by your birth gender. There's a fine line between tolerance and conformity.
It's an apt comparison, because a lot of people used to have the same idea about the n word, because it was the common term of the day, and of course the inferiors shouldn't be insulted.
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I was born in the wrong decade. I'm really 10 so, I should be void of all responsibilities.
Close. You are remarkably not mature in dealing with anything that doesn't conform with your narrow, self absorbed, mean spirited world view. But I know a number of ten year Olds with better skills at that... _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:18 pm Post subject:
LakerSanity wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I have a client who has transitioned into being a male. At work, his co-workers often refer to him by his female name and refer to him as "she" instead of "he." Ignoring that they do it intentionally to harass and hurt him, its a very hard thing for him to deal with. Accepting his own need to transition was hard enough and being reminded every day that others won't accept him or being punished for a decision that doesn't affect anyone else but him (because, fortunately, his parents accepted him) just needlessly piles on. How hard is it to just let people be who they want to be? How does it harm you or threaten your life? Just because someone chooses to live a life different than yours does not invalidate your choices or undermine the life you decide to live. There is enough for everyone on this planet.
BINGO!
No one ever said that the existence of people whose inherent identity differs from your own means you need to adopt that identity for yourself. All you need to do is accept that they exist and that they make the people involved in with that identity feel fulfilled and content - just as one would feel the need to be content wither own. There's no rational reason to denigrate or diminish the quality of other people's direction in their life when it has no bearing on your own. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I have a client who has transitioned into being a male. At work, his co-workers often refer to him by his female name and refer to him as "she" instead of "he." Ignoring that they do it intentionally to harass and hurt him, its a very hard thing for him to deal with. Accepting his own need to transition was hard enough and being reminded every day that others won't accept him or being punished for a decision that doesn't affect anyone else but him (because, fortunately, his parents accepted him) just needlessly piles on. How hard is it to just let people be who they want to be? How does it harm you or threaten your life? Just because someone chooses to live a life different than yours does not invalidate your choices or undermine the life you decide to live. There is enough for everyone on this planet.
BINGO!
No one ever said that the existence of people whose inherent identity differs from your own means you need to adopt that identity for yourself. All you need to do is accept that they exist and that they make the people involved in with that identity feel fulfilled and content - just as one would feel the need to be content wither own. There's no rational reason to denigrate or diminish the quality of other people's direction in their life when it has no bearing on your own.
I agree on this point, too, but this conclusion nevertheless overlooks an essential part of our shared existence ... especially here in the U.S., our society is unfortunately overflowing with judgmental, insecure individuals who just can't abide those with whom they simply can't relate; those they were taught to hate, distrust or look down upon; those who don't share their particular set of beliefs and life experiences; those who make them feel inadequate for any number of reasons; and anyone else who so much as looks at them "the wrong way". It's the national identity (for many) to attack those perceived to be the weakest in the herd.
I wish logic could resolve all of these issues ... I'm not holding my breath, though.
As for FOB17, good luck with your father. I have a ten year old son. He's taught me to expect the unexpected over the past decade, and the range of emotions I've experienced during that period has been overwhelming at times. Academics, sports, social skills, responsibility and the behavioral hornet's nest of pre-adolescence ... you name it ... it's been a roller coaster, at times. Also, I suspect that most parents develop an idea of their child's identity before that identity even develops and takes shape anyway. Sometimes we're on the $$$, and sometimes we miss the mark ... sometimes by a lot. In any event, I salute you for being true to yourself. When the time is right for you, have the talk with your dad. I hope (and I look forward to reading how) he surprises you with the love and support you deserve.
It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
Just so you know, the vast majority of trans people started exhibiting knowledge of it around the age of 4...
Not sure you understand what tolerance is either. "OK, you get to vote, but I'm still calling you the n word..."
dumb comparison. Nobody should be called the n word so, I don't know where the hell you came up with that
. It's not and shouldn't be an insult just because I refer to you by your birth gender. There's a fine line between tolerance and conformity.
It's an apt comparison, because a lot of people used to have the same idea about the n word, because it was the common term of the day, and of course the inferiors shouldn't be insulted.
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I was born in the wrong decade. I'm really 10 so, I should be void of all responsibilities.
Close. You are remarkably not mature in dealing with anything that doesn't conform with your narrow, self absorbed, mean spirited world view. But I know a number of ten year Olds with better skills at that...
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it? _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you.
It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
Just so you know, the vast majority of trans people started exhibiting knowledge of it around the age of 4...
Not sure you understand what tolerance is either. "OK, you get to vote, but I'm still calling you the n word..."
dumb comparison. Nobody should be called the n word so, I don't know where the hell you came up with that
. It's not and shouldn't be an insult just because I refer to you by your birth gender. There's a fine line between tolerance and conformity.
It's an apt comparison, because a lot of people used to have the same idea about the n word, because it was the common term of the day, and of course the inferiors shouldn't be insulted.
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I was born in the wrong decade. I'm really 10 so, I should be void of all responsibilities.
Close. You are remarkably not mature in dealing with anything that doesn't conform with your narrow, self absorbed, mean spirited world view. But I know a number of ten year Olds with better skills at that...
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
If this is the extent of your ability to contribute to this thread, then you need to ignore this thread and find others to post in.
It depends on how old they are. My middle son is 4 and if he says he wants to be a girl, then he's clearly confused and we would seek help immediately. How the hell would a 4 year old know something like that? You can't vote, drink, drive, etc. let alone know if you want to have sex change surgery. Kind of like Jazz from that show on TLC. They're making a big mistake in my opinion. I think there's a way for him to be a transgender in a healthy way without the mutilation.
If my 19 year old was transgender, I'd be fine with it. Nothing changes, he's still my son and I love him. He can bring whomever he wants to our house and I'll welcome them with open arms. I'll give them a big hug.
but...don't ask me to cater to the pronouns. My son will still be my son. and not my "daughter" I will refer to him as such.
You want tolerance? you got it. No problem. Just don't try to change science or the way I speak.
Just so you know, the vast majority of trans people started exhibiting knowledge of it around the age of 4...
Not sure you understand what tolerance is either. "OK, you get to vote, but I'm still calling you the n word..."
dumb comparison. Nobody should be called the n word so, I don't know where the hell you came up with that
. It's not and shouldn't be an insult just because I refer to you by your birth gender. There's a fine line between tolerance and conformity.
It's an apt comparison, because a lot of people used to have the same idea about the n word, because it was the common term of the day, and of course the inferiors shouldn't be insulted.
The thing is, if someone is the "wrong" gender at birth (and I won't get into the differences between sex and gender and sexuality) and transitions, it is not conformist to call them by their correct (chosen if you must) gender. It is basic human decency and politeness.
I was born in the wrong decade. I'm really 10 so, I should be void of all responsibilities.
Close. You are remarkably not mature in dealing with anything that doesn't conform with your narrow, self absorbed, mean spirited world view. But I know a number of ten year Olds with better skills at that...
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
Yes! why? becuase he is my child. as long as he is not breaking the law and is respectful towards others... my child is free to be him or herself
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17249 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:58 am Post subject:
frijolero01 wrote:
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
there's some insensitive comments here at best, down right nasty at worst.
Gender Dysphoria/gender identity disorder is a true medical condition, and yes, it does occur in children. As somebody pointed out, as young as 4 yrs old.
These are the guidelines:
Children
The first requirement for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria in children is, again, a marked incongruence between the patient’s experienced or expressed gender and his or her assigned gender. [1] This incongruence must have lasted for at least 6 months and must include at least 6 of the following 8 criteria (with the first criterion being mandatory):
Strong desire to be of the other (or some alternative) gender or insistence that one already is
Strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire (boys); strong preference for typical masculine clothing and resistance to typical feminine clothing (girls)
Strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe or fantasy play
Strong preference for the stereotypical toys, games, or pastimes of the other gender
Strong preference for playmates of the other gender
Strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities, with strong avoidance of rough play (boys); strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities (girls)
Strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
Strong desire for the primary or secondary sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender
The second requirement is that the condition be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment of social, school, or other important areas of functioning.
So I hope people realized that this is not a made up disease
Last edited by governator on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
it was the same thing until all of the SJWs wanted to play scientist and make it different. _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you.
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
it was the same thing until all of the SJWs wanted to play scientist and make it different.
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject:
frijolero01 wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k. :lol:
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
it was the same thing until all of the SJWs wanted to play scientist and make it different.
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:49 pm Post subject:
I don't have kids but I have had friends and relatives that had come out as gay or trans, and quite honestly never changed the way I felt about them at all because if you are around some one enough of time you know and I already had known they where, so when they told me my reaction was you think I didnt already realize that ? Be happy who in who you are and take joy in those who accept you for you and for those that dont, if that was the tipping point for them they really werent there for you in the first place anyway . Only ones that are shocked or suprised are the ones who dont pay close enough attention to the people around them
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
To be fair, this is a fairly recent thing language-wise.
Instead of people acting offended, why not actually have a discussion?
Because someone sees someone's biology and calls them what they are biologically, that doesn't make them hateful.
I still have trouble with it. I do want to be respectful to people and call them by their preferred pronoun just because in general I try to be a nice guy. If that's what they prefer, then no skin off my nose.
But as long as someone has man parts I'll probably still think of them as a man. If they have lady parts, I'll think of them as a woman. If they have both, I'll think of them as whatever they originally were. No disrespect to them. If I speak to them and they want me to call them something else, then that's cool.
For many, sex and gender are the same. This change in language seems forced, so calling people names and accusing them of hate for not adopting the language just seems like a guaranteed way to piss people off.
I think for some people unless they are put in a situation where they might have a gay/lesbian/transgendered relative, they have a relatively hardline approach to them. I can see why somebody would struggle with coming out to their parents or significant other. Its a huge burden on them to keep the lie or secret going and conform to what society or family expects of them.
If this is the extent of your ability to contribute to this thread, then you need to ignore this thread and find others to post in.
I ran into a topic like this in another forum and I'm not so sure he's that far off when talking about how someone wants to be labeled. Thought this video was interesting on the subject. In the first 5 minutes they talk about people taking on animal genders.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject:
Reflexx wrote:
To be fair, this is a fairly recent thing language-wise.
Instead of people acting offended, why not actually have a discussion?
Because someone sees someone's biology and calls them what they are biologically, that doesn't make them hateful.
I still have trouble with it. I do want to be respectful to people and call them by their preferred pronoun just because in general I try to be a nice guy. If that's what they prefer, then no skin off my nose.
But as long as someone has man parts I'll probably still think of them as a man. If they have lady parts, I'll think of them as a woman. If they have both, I'll think of them as whatever they originally were. No disrespect to them. If I speak to them and they want me to call them something else, then that's cool.
For many, sex and gender are the same. This change in language seems forced, so calling people names and accusing them of hate for not adopting the language just seems like a guaranteed way to piss people off.
No one is saying people shouldn't be permitted to think how they want to think in their own mind. However, if your name is Bob, isn't it fair for you to request to be called, and be called, Bob, even if I think of you as Robert in my own mind? And if I continue to call you Robert despite your requests, can you think of any reason I would do so other than to either a) take power away from you or b) offend you? _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
To be fair, this is a fairly recent thing language-wise.
Instead of people acting offended, why not actually have a discussion?
Because someone sees someone's biology and calls them what they are biologically, that doesn't make them hateful.
I still have trouble with it. I do want to be respectful to people and call them by their preferred pronoun just because in general I try to be a nice guy. If that's what they prefer, then no skin off my nose.
But as long as someone has man parts I'll probably still think of them as a man. If they have lady parts, I'll think of them as a woman. If they have both, I'll think of them as whatever they originally were. No disrespect to them. If I speak to them and they want me to call them something else, then that's cool.
For many, sex and gender are the same. This change in language seems forced, so calling people names and accusing them of hate for not adopting the language just seems like a guaranteed way to piss people off.
No one is saying people shouldn't be permitted to think how they want to think in their own mind. However, if your name is Bob, isn't it fair for you to request to be called, and be called, Bob, even if I think of you as Robert in my own mind? And if I continue to call you Robert despite your requests, can you think of any reason I would do so other than to either a) take power away from you or b) offend you?
I generally think people should be polite and respectful of peoples' wishes. But on a forum where people are just discussing stuff, I think it's not exactly polite to shut people down when they disagree.
It would be different if he was on here targeting a member and saying, "No, you're a 'he' not a 'she'!"
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17249 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject:
Reflexx wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
To be fair, this is a fairly recent thing language-wise.
Instead of people acting offended, why not actually have a discussion?
Because someone sees someone's biology and calls them what they are biologically, that doesn't make them hateful.
I still have trouble with it. I do want to be respectful to people and call them by their preferred pronoun just because in general I try to be a nice guy. If that's what they prefer, then no skin off my nose.
But as long as someone has man parts I'll probably still think of them as a man. If they have lady parts, I'll think of them as a woman. If they have both, I'll think of them as whatever they originally were. No disrespect to them. If I speak to them and they want me to call them something else, then that's cool.
For many, sex and gender are the same. This change in language seems forced, so calling people names and accusing them of hate for not adopting the language just seems like a guaranteed way to piss people off.
No one is saying people shouldn't be permitted to think how they want to think in their own mind. However, if your name is Bob, isn't it fair for you to request to be called, and be called, Bob, even if I think of you as Robert in my own mind? And if I continue to call you Robert despite your requests, can you think of any reason I would do so other than to either a) take power away from you or b) offend you?
I generally think people should be polite and respectful of peoples' wishes. But on a forum where people are just discussing stuff, I think it's not exactly polite to shut people down when they disagree.
It would be different if he was on here targeting a member and saying, "No, you're a 'he' not a 'she'!"
People are getting defensive because in essence, that is exactly what is happening. This isn't a thread about discussing what it means to be transgender, it's a specific thread from Fan0Bynum17 asking for advice on coming out. Any talk about how transgender men/women really aren't their identified gender is very inconsiderate to her.
I'm not a moderator, but taking that discussion to another thread would probably be more appropriate and considerate. IMHO.
To be fair, this is a fairly recent thing language-wise.
Instead of people acting offended, why not actually have a discussion?
Because someone sees someone's biology and calls them what they are biologically, that doesn't make them hateful.
I still have trouble with it. I do want to be respectful to people and call them by their preferred pronoun just because in general I try to be a nice guy. If that's what they prefer, then no skin off my nose.
But as long as someone has man parts I'll probably still think of them as a man. If they have lady parts, I'll think of them as a woman. If they have both, I'll think of them as whatever they originally were. No disrespect to them. If I speak to them and they want me to call them something else, then that's cool.
For many, sex and gender are the same. This change in language seems forced, so calling people names and accusing them of hate for not adopting the language just seems like a guaranteed way to piss people off.
No one is saying people shouldn't be permitted to think how they want to think in their own mind. However, if your name is Bob, isn't it fair for you to request to be called, and be called, Bob, even if I think of you as Robert in my own mind? And if I continue to call you Robert despite your requests, can you think of any reason I would do so other than to either a) take power away from you or b) offend you?
I generally think people should be polite and respectful of peoples' wishes. But on a forum where people are just discussing stuff, I think it's not exactly polite to shut people down when they disagree.
It would be different if he was on here targeting a member and saying, "No, you're a 'he' not a 'she'!"
People are getting defensive because in essence, that is exactly what is happening. This isn't a thread about discussing what it means to be transgender, it's a specific thread from Fan0Bynum17 asking for advice on coming out. Any talk about how transgender men/women really aren't their identified gender is very inconsiderate to her.
I'm not a moderator, but taking that discussion to another thread would probably be more appropriate and considerate. IMHO.
Perhaps you're right there. Putting it in the politics thread would also keep it from getting into some big insult war.
calling someone by their birth gender is mean spirited now? o....k.
I'm looking at facts. Those who choose to ignore the facts are the immature ones. So if you're child thinks they're a unicorn, you'll be ok with it?
This statement is so ignorant that I will only say that I hope you one day learn more about that which you obviously have no idea about. Not even going into the differences between sex and gender, this statement is just sad to read.
it was the same thing until all of the SJWs wanted to play scientist and make it different.
Now you're just making it a semantics game. The concept that people are referring to when it comes to how one expresses themselves that is commonly associated with one sex vs. the other. We all know what these things generally are: Typically women will wear dresses, skirts, more revealing and ostentatious clothing. They'll generally wear makeup, have purses, have longer hair, speak in higher pitches and softer tones. They'll have different mannerisms generally, and we'll usually say "she" or "her" when referring to them. They'll tend to take less laborious jobs, and they'll tend to have different roles in relationships. Are you happy I wrote that all down instead of just saying "gender" because you disagree with the definition? Should people have to write that all down when just referring to a concept, all for the noble purpose of two distinct words having the exact same definition?
And you want to know why a distinction has been made? Because it's useful since sex doesn't always align with this.
Explain to me how one's behavior and psychological identity is less relevant in a social interaction with them than their chromosomes and sex organs. Do you have conversations with people's chromosomes? With their testicles/ovaries? Or do you have it with their minds?
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